USTA League Rules

rasajadad

Hall of Fame
Quick question- I just lost a singles match in a 4.0 sectional to a guy who's currently playing D-II tennis. Someone told me that if someone is currently playing on a D-II college team, they have to be at least 4.5.
a- Is that true?
b- If so, what do I need to do to protest?
Thanks!
 

JLyon

Hall of Fame
if at sectionals it is a little to late now. for instance Southern had a rule to file protests at leats 2 weeks prior for it to be heard before Sectionals. Also they must be self-rated to even have a chance at winning.
 

WBF

Hall of Fame
Gotta love scrapers.

Not that you are wrong (you are correct), but... Technicality hunters are obnoxious :) Unless it was 6-0 6-0, then I might be less critical.
 
Any college player when self rating, is suppose to be at least 4.0, if they are under 30 years of age then they have to self rate 4.5, but they can appeal at the time of their self rating and probably get knocked down. If not they dont that can be an automatic DQ on the basis of lying on his self rate application form.
 

Romeo

New User
If the player is 35 and under they have to self rate at 4.5. If the player is 36 and over they can self rate at 4.0 unless the team they are on has a national ranking. If the team they are on has been ranked, the player can not self rate below 4.5. If the player or the captain has lied on the self rating they should be suspended and their matches disqualified
 

PhillyMike

New User
There's a pretty wide variety of skill when it comes to D-II players.

For that matter, there's a pretty wide variety of skill when you get to the lower tier of DI schools.
 
If the player was on one of the top 17 ranked D1, D2, D3 school, and also a top ranked (1-4) player on the team, I can see how the elite player guideline fits in.

However, some of the lower ranked teams need "fillers," and the range of those players are somewhere at 3.5 to 4.5. On the women's side, I even saw someone at the 3.0 level playing ... not a pretty site when her opponent was 4.5+
 

Romeo

New User
If you are playing DII college tennis and under 36 years old, you have to self rate as a 4.5. If you are 36 and over and your college team has never been nationally ranked, you have to self rate as a 4.0. If you are 36 and older and your college team was nationally ranked, you have to self rate as a 4.5 player. They do not take into account your ability, position on the team or if you even played on the team when it was ranked.

I know this because we have had two individuals suspended and all of thier matches disqualified. Lawyers were involved and appeals were written. It did not matter that they were not a 4.5 in ability. It did not matter that the person in question was 51 years old and that they did not play on the team when it became ranked. If they self rated below the guidelines, even if unknowingly, they are suspended and disqualified.

If anyone knows of any exceptions, please let me know.
 

Eviscerator

Banned
Quick question- I just lost a singles match in a 4.0 sectional to a guy who's currently playing D-II tennis. Someone told me that if someone is currently playing on a D-II college team, they have to be at least 4.5.
a- Is that true?
b- If so, what do I need to do to protest?
Thanks!
How do you know he was a DII player, and how do you know his age?

The scores must be online by now, so what is your name and the player in question?
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
If you are playing DII college tennis and under 36 years old, you have to self rate as a 4.5. If you are 36 and over and your college team has never been nationally ranked, you have to self rate as a 4.0. If you are 36 and older and your college team was nationally ranked, you have to self rate as a 4.5 player. They do not take into account your ability, position on the team or if you even played on the team when it was ranked.

I know this because we have had two individuals suspended and all of thier matches disqualified. Lawyers were involved and appeals were written. It did not matter that they were not a 4.5 in ability. It did not matter that the person in question was 51 years old and that they did not play on the team when it became ranked. If they self rated below the guidelines, even if unknowingly, they are suspended and disqualified.

If anyone knows of any exceptions, please let me know.
Romeo,

These are national guidelines from the USTA, but it depends on the Section League Coordinator on how closely they are followed.

When BigJeff said "must be from Texas" in his post, he was referring to John Arvesen playing on Bill Sanders national championship 4.0 team from Waco last year. Arvesen was a nationally ranked junior that had been a two-time state high school doubles finalist in Texas. By the national self rate guidelines, the minimum that he could self rate at is 4.5. However, Bill claims that the Section League Coordinator personally approved of Arvesen's play at 4.0. Subsequently, Arvesen went undefeated (15-0) and provided the winning point in leading Waco to the championship.

In my section, they seem to take the guidelines more seriously. We tried to sign a player up on our 4.5 team that had played at BYU during the late 80's and early 90's. He is a doctor, hadn't played any tennis in over 10 years, and was only playing once a week in his "comeback". He was solid in doubles in practice, but many of us had beaten him. However, we thought he would be a great addition to the team. Unfortunately, the self-rate guidelines say that someone with his background and age has to be a 5.5! We tried to appeal this with the Section Coordinator, but there was no budging on this from her.

Personally, I think that self rated players are the scourge of USTA League tennis. Almost all of the winning teams at the sectional and national level are filled with self rates that are clearly playing 1 to 2 levels below their true playing ability. Without uniform application of guidelines and rules across the USTA sections, and with no visual verifiers, captains on these teams know exactly what they need to do to game the system and keep the dubious self rated players from striking out. In the meantime, the USTA hides behind their dynamic rating system and does not seem to want to address problems on a national level. The only hope is to put pressure on your coordinators at the local and sectional level to weed out the bad seeds. This may cause the winning teams from your section to get killed at nationals by the sections that allow cheating, but at least you have your integrity.
 
Division II tennis can be anyone from 5.5 to 3.0. I witnessed one DII player that would not make many 3.0 teams. He was a filler. Yet, he is under 36 so he must rate at least a 4.5. In reality he is a weak 3.0. Just because someone played college tennis does not mean they know how to play tennis. On the flip side, if fomeone did play college tennis, they probably do know how to play.
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
Division II tennis can be anyone from 5.5 to 3.0. I witnessed one DII player that would not make many 3.0 teams. He was a filler. Yet, he is under 36 so he must rate at least a 4.5. In reality he is a weak 3.0. Just because someone played college tennis does not mean they know how to play tennis. On the flip side, if fomeone did play college tennis, they probably do know how to play.
Having played small college tennis myself, and been a coach at a Division I school, I can totally agree with what you're saying. The level of players that a school has on their roster depends on how much scholarship or financial aid is available and how active the coach is in recruiting accomplished players. There are some Division II and III schools that are much better than the lower Division I schools. However, I am a firm believer that the national self rate guidelines need to be applied uniformly and to the letter. This hurts some folks like the 3.0 you mentioned, but weeds out a majority of the cheaters (if the guidelines are actually followed). By the way, the best thing for that 3.0 guy to do is forget about USTA League for a year and play NTRP tournaments at his true level. Nobody files grievances on an unrated player self rating for tournaments, so he could do that and get a computer rating based on his actual tournament results. Then, he could play at his true level in USTA League without any guideline grievances being upheld against him. (By the way, I am actually describing a loophole in the system that some people have used to cheat.)
 

rasajadad

Hall of Fame
How do you know he was a DII player, and how do you know his age?

The scores must be online by now, so what is your name and the player in question?
He told me he was currently in college and played on his team. Another team member told me his school was D-II. Because he was currently on the roster, I assumed his age to be 21 or less.

His first name is Rahul.
 
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