USTA level 5 16U and 18U tournaments: Is the behavior of the players really this bad?

T

TheStrenuousLife

New User
At my local tennis club, we hosted a level 5 tournament with 16-18 year olds. I stayed to watch some of the match play. The kids came from all over the country. This was my first higher level tournament that I watched. While the tennis was very high level, probably high end division II or lower end Division I, I saw something universal with the majority of these players: The behavior of these players and parents were beyond horrible. The refs were taking constant verbal abuse from players. I heard one player scream "f-u, that's bull sh*t!!!" to the ref. I saw another after the match was over approach the ref and scream and yell in his face. I saw at least 7 other matches where the players were yelling, screaming, and arguing with one another over line calls where a ref was not in place. Several pareents and athletes alike reported to the manager of their opponents behavior on the court. Some were trying to intimidate the others and name called them. There were over 60 athletes that came to compete, and of all of the players I saw, I would say that more than half displayed horrible sportsmanship and behavior. Refs taking constant abuse and players screaming and arguing with one another with foul language was the norm of most matches I witnessed. The parents seemed stuck up and entitled as well putting no repercussions on their kids out of control behaviors.

At the end of the tournament, 4 kids ended up getting reported to USTA for possible future match/game points for post-match behavior to the refs. One nearly getting threatening violence.

I know the manger of the building who has hosted other USTA tournaments before, and I asked him if this was common for level 5 and higher. He said the last time he hosted a level 5 tournament police had to get involved because a parent ran onto the court and chest bumped and took a swing at the ref. He said behavior has got violent on multiple occasions.

I genuinely did not know that when you reach this high of a level, that the behavior gets this out of control.

Is this true? Does anyone here have experience either playing at this level, or witnessing this level from 16-18 year old level 5 or higher players acting out of control like this?
 
TheStrenuousLife said:
At my local tennis club, we hosted a level 5 tournament with 16-18 year olds. I stayed to watch some of the match play. The kids came from all over the country. This was my first higher level tournament that I watched. While the tennis was very high level, probably high end division II or lower end Division I, I saw something universal with the majority of these players: The behavior of these players and parents were beyond horrible. The refs were taking constant verbal abuse from players. I heard one player scream "f-u, that's bull sh*t!!!" to the ref. I saw another after the match was over approach the ref and scream and yell in his face. I saw at least 7 other matches where the players were yelling, screaming, and arguing with one another over line calls where a ref was not in place. Several pareents and athletes alike reported to the manager of their opponents behavior on the court. Some were trying to intimidate the others and name called them. There were over 60 athletes that came to compete, and of all of the players I saw, I would say that more than half displayed horrible sportsmanship and behavior. Refs taking constant abuse and players screaming and arguing with one another with foul language was the norm of most matches I witnessed. The parents seemed stuck up and entitled as well putting no repercussions on their kids out of control behaviors.

At the end of the tournament, 4 kids ended up getting reported to USTA for possible future match/game points for post-match behavior to the refs. One nearly getting threatening violence.

I know the manger of the building who has hosted other USTA tournaments before, and I asked him if this was common for level 5 and higher. He said the last time he hosted a level 5 tournament police had to get involved because a parent ran onto the court and chest bumped and took a swing at the ref. He said behavior has got violent on multiple occasions.

I genuinely did not know that when you reach this high of a level, that the behavior gets this out of control.

Is this true? Does anyone here have experience either playing at this level, or witnessing this level from 16-18 year old level 5 or higher players acting out of control like this?
Click to expand...
Honestly I didn't see much of this when my kids were playing and they were close to that level. I actually felt like the higher the level the less cheating and acting out I saw. However that was about 8 years ago and since that time things have changed a lot in this country so that might be a reason this is more common now.
 
I’ve seen bad behavior from juniors like questioning calls aggressively, throwing racquets, hitting balls violently in anger etc. mostly with younger kids below 14 at my club. I also think there is a lot of ‘hooking’ on line calls. The parents and coaches (if present) don’t seem to stop the kids from doing anything unsportsmanlike when angry. So I’m not surprised that they behave even worse when older at tournaments.
 
TheStrenuousLife said:
At my local tennis club, we hosted a level 5 tournament with 16-18 year olds. I stayed to watch some of the match play. The kids came from all over the country. This was my first higher level tournament that I watched. While the tennis was very high level, probably high end division II or lower end Division I, I saw something universal with the majority of these players: The behavior of these players and parents were beyond horrible. The refs were taking constant verbal abuse from players. I heard one player scream "f-u, that's bull sh*t!!!" to the ref. I saw another after the match was over approach the ref and scream and yell in his face. I saw at least 7 other matches where the players were yelling, screaming, and arguing with one another over line calls where a ref was not in place. Several pareents and athletes alike reported to the manager of their opponents behavior on the court. Some were trying to intimidate the others and name called them. There were over 60 athletes that came to compete, and of all of the players I saw, I would say that more than half displayed horrible sportsmanship and behavior. Refs taking constant abuse and players screaming and arguing with one another with foul language was the norm of most matches I witnessed. The parents seemed stuck up and entitled as well putting no repercussions on their kids out of control behaviors.

At the end of the tournament, 4 kids ended up getting reported to USTA for possible future match/game points for post-match behavior to the refs. One nearly getting threatening violence.

I know the manger of the building who has hosted other USTA tournaments before, and I asked him if this was common for level 5 and higher. He said the last time he hosted a level 5 tournament police had to get involved because a parent ran onto the court and chest bumped and took a swing at the ref. He said behavior has got violent on multiple occasions.

I genuinely did not know that when you reach this high of a level, that the behavior gets this out of control.

Is this true? Does anyone here have experience either playing at this level, or witnessing this level from 16-18 year old level 5 or higher players acting out of control like this?
Click to expand...

You will not see kids traveling from around the country to a level 5 as the only lower level than these local tournaments are level 6's, 7's (The lower the number the higher the event). Also you won't see D2 or D1 players or even decent D3 players at a level 5.

That said you do see bad behavior although not to that level at least at higher level events but at locals where players do not know how to act yes.

See the tournament levels below:

 
LOBALOT said:
You will not see kids traveling from around the country to a level 5 as the only lower level than these local tournaments are level 6's, 7's (The lower the number the higher the event). Also you won't see D2 or D1 players or even decent D3 players at a level 5.

That said you do see bad behavior although not to that level at least at higher level events but at locals where players do not know how to act yes.

See the tournament levels below:

Click to expand...

Better kids are playing lower levels because tournaments are drying up.

We have utr 9 kids in L6 U16 here.

J
 
J011yroger said:
Better kids are playing lower levels because tournaments are drying up.

We have utr 9 kids in L6 U16 here.

J
Click to expand...

So looking at the 50th highest D3 team a UTR 9 is not making the lineup.

Certainly no 9 UTR kid is playing on a decent D3, no way D2, forget D1 team.

Good tournament kids are not going to travel across the country to play a level 5 for the points that are available and the competition that they would face.

I would love to see the draw as I am very skeptical that top kids would travel from across the country to a level 5.
 
Last edited:
LOBALOT said:
So looking at the 50th highest D3 team a UTR 9 is not making the lineup.

Certainly no 9 UTR kid is playing on a decent D3, no way D2, forget D1 team.

Good tournament kids are not going to travel across the country to play a level 5 for the points that are available and the competition that they would face.

I would love to see the draw as I am very skeptical that top kids would travel from across the country to a level 5.
Click to expand...
It's been a while since I've followed junior tournaments, but several years ago, I think L5s only had sectional ranking points, not national, right? L4 was a sectional invitational level, L3 was the sectional championship with national ranking points, L2s were the closed regional invitationals, and then the national championships above that.

The OP is written like it was created by ChatGPT.
 
LOBALOT said:
So looking at the 50th highest D3 team a UTR 9 is not making the lineup.

Certainly no 9 UTR kid is playing on a decent D3, no way D2, forget D1 team.

Good tournament kids are not going to travel across the country to play a level 5 for the points that are available and the competition that they would face.

I would love to see the draw as I am very skeptical that top kids would travel from across the country to a level 5.
Click to expand...
Buddy,

I said utr9 boys are in L6 16s as an example of better players in lower levels, nobody said a 15 year old in an L6 was playing for a top 50 D3.

L6 16s used to be full of 5-7 UTR.

It creates downward pressure so beginning tournament players sign up for L7s and get wrecked by a kid who has been playing for a few years and has a bad experience.

L5 18s often now have 10-11 UTR players in them which are your run of the mill D2 players and unranked/lower D1 players who probably look pretty good to some jabroni on the internet.

No, it wouldn't make sense for someone to fly across the country to play an L5 unless it was in a nice place during school break, which is entirely possible because playing the same cast of characters is not good for anybody.

As far as top kids, once again nobody is saying 4star or better kids are playing L5s but even your average L5 player is a more or less full time tennis player putting in 3+ days per week.

In the past 10 years I have seen two oscillations of nobody is playing the tournaments >>>there aren't enough tournaments >>>nobody is playing the tournaments >>> There aren't enough tournaments in the juniors.

Adult tournaments have been a steady downhill slide for the past 30 years and leagues are joining the party.

J
 
J011yroger said:
Buddy,

I said utr9 boys are in L6 16s as an example of better players in lower levels, nobody said a 15 year old in an L6 was playing for a top 50 D3.

L6 16s used to be full of 5-7 UTR.

It creates downward pressure so beginning tournament players sign up for L7s and get wrecked by a kid who has been playing for a few years and has a bad experience.

L5 18s often now have 10-11 UTR players in them which are your run of the mill D2 players and unranked/lower D1 players who probably look pretty good to some jabroni on the internet.

No, it wouldn't make sense for someone to fly across the country to play an L5 unless it was in a nice place during school break, which is entirely possible because playing the same cast of characters is not good for anybody.

As far as top kids, once again nobody is saying 4star or better kids are playing L5s but even your average L5 player is a more or less full time tennis player putting in 3+ days per week.

In the past 10 years I have seen two oscillations of nobody is playing the tournaments >>>there aren't enough tournaments >>>nobody is playing the tournaments >>> There aren't enough tournaments in the juniors.

Adult tournaments have been a steady downhill slide for the past 30 years and leagues are joining the party.

J
Click to expand...

Understood sorry for my confusion.
 
J011yroger said:
Buddy,

I said utr9 boys are in L6 16s as an example of better players in lower levels, nobody said a 15 year old in an L6 was playing for a top 50 D3.

L6 16s used to be full of 5-7 UTR.

It creates downward pressure so beginning tournament players sign up for L7s and get wrecked by a kid who has been playing for a few years and has a bad experience.

L5 18s often now have 10-11 UTR players in them which are your run of the mill D2 players and unranked/lower D1 players who probably look pretty good to some jabroni on the internet.

No, it wouldn't make sense for someone to fly across the country to play an L5 unless it was in a nice place during school break, which is entirely possible because playing the same cast of characters is not good for anybody.

As far as top kids, once again nobody is saying 4star or better kids are playing L5s but even your average L5 player is a more or less full time tennis player putting in 3+ days per week.

In the past 10 years I have seen two oscillations of nobody is playing the tournaments >>>there aren't enough tournaments >>>nobody is playing the tournaments >>> There aren't enough tournaments in the juniors.

Adult tournaments have been a steady downhill slide for the past 30 years and leagues are joining the party.

J
Click to expand...
If you go back far enough (like 15-20 years in Middle States), the L7 and L8 District 18s tournaments had 4.5 caliber kids in them, which would have been UTR 6.5-8.5 or so (had UTR existed at the time), so the L5/L6 sectional tournaments definitely had some UTR 9 caliber kids in them. I think interest in the District level USTA tournaments kind of faded out for a while after that.
 
We host a Level 6 at my club and I have been a volunteer umpteen times. We are very strict and do not tolerate any behavior, including bad language.
 
J_R_B said:
If you go back far enough (like 15-20 years in Middle States), the L7 and L8 District 18s tournaments had 4.5 caliber kids in them, which would have been UTR 6.5-8.5 or so (had UTR existed at the time), so the L5/L6 sectional tournaments definitely had some UTR 9 caliber kids in them. I think interest in the District level USTA tournaments kind of faded out for a while after that.
Click to expand...

In one example I can show where the USTA succeeded and at the same time failed when it comes to Junior Tennis.

Back 12 years ago or there about when the USTA was pumping/pushing all the red/orange/green junior development our district's (qualifier for sectionals) for 10s (green dot) had so many boys register they had to cut the draw down to 64 kids. They were sending pros down to Florida to learn how to teach, gave the clubs signs promoting junior tennis, etc. That group / yearly crop of kids was super tough with many going on to play D1 tennis.

But like all things USTA, their ADHD kicked in and they lost focus. The next year 19 boys signed up for the event and from then on they average like 10 kids a qualifier. They continued of course to go on their periodic junkets and slapped themselves on the back but they never did much with it again.
 
you would be surprised at the level of some Lvl 5's and Lvl 4's; many are point chasing now with no limits to a section.
Unfortunately I am no longer surprised by the poor behavior of some players at these tournaments and by the parents and coaches. It is a shame.
 
JLyon said:
you would be surprised at the level of some Lvl 5's and Lvl 4's; many are point chasing now with no limits to a section.
Unfortunately I am no longer surprised by the poor behavior of some players at these tournaments and by the parents and coaches. It is a shame.
Click to expand...

I just scanned through the level 5s on the eastern half of the US and I am just not finding this. They are for the most part local players. You might find a local kid who happens to be a decent player in the draw but I am not seeing Cali kids playing in NY or Florida kids playing in Texas in Level 5s.

Here is an open Level 5 in New England:


Here is a closed Level 5 in Mid Atlantic:


I am not seeing kids traveling across the country to play these.

On the other hand here is national level 1 from kids across the US:

 
Last edited:
innoVAShaun said:
Isn't that what Open and Closed mean? Closed doesn't mean it's for the section only?
Click to expand...

Yup, closed is closed to that section. Open is open at least that is what I recall when my son was wrapping up Juniors about 4 years ago or so.

Not a big deal but I just was curious when OP posted that a level 5 had kids from across the US.

I know when my son was in Juniors he would play up a level in the level 5s, skip 6s/7s, and play his age group for the rest. He was a lower upper kid if that makes sense. Played bigger events but wouldn't get far. He is having a blast wrapping up his senior year playing 1 singles/D3 at one of the well known tennis/academic schools.
 
LOBALOT said:
Yup, closed is closed to that section. Open is open at least that is what I recall when my son was wrapping up Juniors about 4 years ago or so.

Not a big deal but I just was curious when OP posted that a level 5 had kids from across the US.

I know when my son was in Juniors he would play up a level in the level 5s, skip 6s/7s, and play his age group for the rest. He was a lower upper kid if that makes sense. Played bigger events but wouldn't get far. He is having a blast wrapping up his senior year playing 1 singles/D3 at one of the well known tennis/academic schools.
Click to expand...
Curious - Was your kid homeschooled for tennis? This is basically the only way for US players to make it at D1. Some exceptions for sure but not many. Seeing more top D3 players coming from homeschooling too. D3 tennis got some much better in recent years. D2 and NAIA are weird. Not sure how those work but mostly foreign I guess.
Looks like you’re talking about New England or Mid-Atlantic. Not sure how to compare but assuming in CA there are a lot more good juniors. Plus going from SoCal to NorCal is basically crossing state lines
 
jviss said:
Curious - Was your kid homeschooled for tennis? This is basically the only way for US players to make it at D1. Some exceptions for sure but not many. Seeing more top D3 players coming from homeschooling too. D3 tennis got some much better in recent years. D2 and NAIA are weird. Not sure how those work but mostly foreign I guess.
Looks like you’re talking about New England or Mid-Atlantic. Not sure how to compare but assuming in CA there are a lot more good juniors. Plus going from SoCal to NorCal is basically crossing state lines
Click to expand...

No there were tennis academies that wanted him to come join them and play tennis for 7 hours a day and go to 1 hour of "tutor" or if you want to call it "home schooling". We weren't impressed.

My son is pretty sharp and while he is "his dad's favorite tennis player" there was reality that we had too. He didn't attend his high school but attended an IB school that is one of the highest ranked high schools in the US every year (used to be #1 and is now like top 10). The way they set it up the high schools in our county fund the IB school and then give up quota seats / purchase seats each year and then the kids entering high school take an exam to apply and then there is a lottery per high school and if you are lucky enough to win the lottery then the kid can go to it or give up a spot to the next kid who wins the lottery. They then play sports back for their high school.

So anyway he did that. That said I know plenty of kids that were peers of my son who went to normal high school and went on to play D1 and excel at it. We know two who went/are going to Northwestern, another that is playing at Michigan, another playing high in the lineup at Ball State another playing for Western Michigan another that played for Duke etc.. Don't listen to that "hyperbole" (See J I am learning!).

Kids need to work hard at tennis though to play at a decent level so I am not saying they don't have to do that. My son took 3 private lessons a week, participated in 2 elite groups a week, hit on his own, worked out every day, took strength/agility classes (boxing training in a boxing gym), had a tennis focused psychologist, and we went to tournaments 3 times a month out of town. My son has this crazy focus his dad doesn't have so learned to study when he wasn't training/hitting and used (and still) uses his time well. Tennis is an awesome sport for kids to learn to focus on the task at hand and manage time well.

He could have played D2/NAIA but academically they weren't great. He had some great opportunities / offers from D3 schools and then got into some other D3 schools were he probably would have played down in the lineup or not played at all but were fantastic schools academically. D3 is odd that way. Don't listen to the hyperbola ;) about D3 tennis either. There are some dang good D3 tennis players/teams and my son's is on a pretty good team. He is excelling academically with over 3.75 in bio/pre-med and has made academic all district teams each year. His first match of his senior year playing 1 singles is this weekend and in case you couldn't tell his dad is pretty pumped. D3 tennis rocks!
 
sureshs said:
We host a Level 6 at my club and I have been a volunteer umpteen times. We are very strict and do not tolerate any behavior, including bad language.
Click to expand...

My club is similar. One of our league players actually got in trouble for throwing a racquet at the back fence...
But I thought your club had the misbehaving people during Thanksgiving or Christmas mixer? Or are you saying it's just the juniors who have to behave :)
 
J011yroger said:
Better kids are playing lower levels because tournaments are drying up.

We have utr 9 kids in L6 U16 here.

J
Click to expand...
We've experienced the same in Georgia. There was a UTR 6.5 in U14s girls here at a small tournament, but it's either that or don't play for a month.

At least most kids with this UTR are playing up and not just destroying the 4-5 UTR girls for trophies...most.
 
LOBALOT said:
You will not see kids traveling from around the country to a level 5 as the only lower level than these local tournaments are level 6's, 7's (The lower the number the higher the event). Also you won't see D2 or D1 players or even decent D3 players at a level 5.
Click to expand...
Not going to give names, but yesterday there was a 9 VS 10 UTR match in a level 6... boys 18s. Insanity. Totally drives away the "good" kids at the 6-8 UTR level from even wanting to play tournaments.
 
J011yroger said:
THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING!!!

J
Click to expand...
I'm an alright player- no rating but I was competitive with the 9 UTR guy while I was warming him up for an hour. Played a few games, got some break points, but overall I doubt I could get more than a few games off him. The one seed in this tournament was a 10.5 UTR, 4 star recruit. Overall, there were 5 players in this tournament with UTRs over 9, 2 with it over 10. As a relative newcomer to the junior tennis scene, how do I even have a chance to start playing in these tournaments? I enjoy playing, and I've gotten pretty good in the limited amount of time that I've been playing, but I can't actually play competitively when I need to pay $75 for a first round loss.
 
JK208 said:
Not going to give names, but yesterday there was a 9 VS 10 UTR match in a level 6... boys 18s. Insanity. Totally drives away the "good" kids at the 6-8 UTR level from even wanting to play tournaments.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing. Just wonder what one would get from it. Certainly, not points nor competition although as you said they met each other I would presume in the final.
 
LOBALOT said:
Thanks for sharing. Just wonder what one would get from it. Certainly, not points nor competition although as you said they met each other I would presume in the final.
Click to expand...
9 VS 10 met in 1st round, 10v10 met in 2nd round, 10v9 3rd round, 10v10 again in final. 3 guys with UTR 10 from my quick glance. The 9 UTR that I played with for an hour got a 1st round exit. Ended up being 6 guys in a 10 man tourney with a UTR of 9+. Pretty good competition and UTR matches. The real craziness is that it was a $140 entry fee...
 
JK208 said:
9 VS 10 met in 1st round, 10v10 met in 2nd round, 10v9 3rd round, 10v10 again in final. 3 guys with UTR 10 from my quick glance. The 9 UTR that I played with for an hour got a 1st round exit. Ended up being 6 guys in a 10 man tourney with a UTR of 9+. Pretty good competition and UTR matches. The real craziness is that it was a $140 entry fee...
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, I thought you indicated this was a USTA level 6. Was this was a UTR money tournament or a Local Level 6 as I don't think USTA offers $ at junior tournaments.
 
LOBALOT said:
Just out of curiosity, I thought you indicated this was a USTA level 6. Was this was a UTR money tournament or a Local Level 6 as I don't think USTA offers $ at junior tournaments.
Click to expand...
I meant that the matches count towards UTR, but it was a local L6 with no prize money. Sorry for the confusion
 
JK208 said:
Not going to give names, but yesterday there was a 9 VS 10 UTR match in a level 6... boys 18s. Insanity. Totally drives away the "good" kids at the 6-8 UTR level from even wanting to play tournaments.
Click to expand...
That should be the opposite that’s great for the game and the junior scene
 
InsuranceMan said:
That should be the opposite that’s great for the game and the junior scene
Click to expand...
How? The level 4 and 5 tournaments should be for the stars. L3 and above for the truly great players. I started playing way too late to be a great junior, became pretty decent, now I want some level-appropriate tournaments. It's not like I'm a bad player either- sure, I'll lose badly to guys with D1 offers, but I still am pretty competitive and am by far the best player in my high school conference. More high-level players playing in small tournaments only tells me that there aren't enough larger tournaments to go around. Please keep in mind that the "intermediates" will still beat 90% of adult players as well. It is better for the long-term health of the sport for there to be competitive matches at all levels. It's important to know that this doesn't mean that there are more high level players- it means that they are crowding out the more intermediate players. It would be better for there to be more separation for the intermediate players, then they are encouraged to keep playing. If there are more 9 UTRs and they were forced down into L6s because there is too much competition for higher level tournaments, that is great news. Instead, same guys who play L4s and are ranked top 100 in the nation (winner was actually a bit better than that) play in local tournaments hours away from them because there is nothing else to play. We need more tournaments, not just advanced people playing in more tournaments.
 
JK208 said:
How? The level 4 and 5 tournaments should be for the stars. L3 and above for the truly great players. I started playing way too late to be a great junior, became pretty decent, now I want some level-appropriate tournaments. It's not like I'm a bad player either- sure, I'll lose badly to guys with D1 offers, but I still am pretty competitive and am by far the best player in my high school conference. More high-level players playing in small tournaments only tells me that there aren't enough larger tournaments to go around. Please keep in mind that the "intermediates" will still beat 90% of adult players as well. It is better for the long-term health of the sport for there to be competitive matches at all levels. It's important to know that this doesn't mean that there are more high level players- it means that they are crowding out the more intermediate players. It would be better for there to be more separation for the intermediate players, then they are encouraged to keep playing. If there are more 9 UTRs and they were forced down into L6s because there is too much competition for higher level tournaments, that is great news. Instead, same guys who play L4s and are ranked top 100 in the nation (winner was actually a bit better than that) play in local tournaments hours away from them because there is nothing else to play. We need more tournaments, not just advanced people playing in more tournaments.
Click to expand...

This guy gets it!

J
 
JK208 said:
How? The level 4 and 5 tournaments should be for the stars. L3 and above for the truly great players. I started playing way too late to be a great junior, became pretty decent, now I want some level-appropriate tournaments. It's not like I'm a bad player either- sure, I'll lose badly to guys with D1 offers, but I still am pretty competitive and am by far the best player in my high school conference. More high-level players playing in small tournaments only tells me that there aren't enough larger tournaments to go around. Please keep in mind that the "intermediates" will still beat 90% of adult players as well. It is better for the long-term health of the sport for there to be competitive matches at all levels. It's important to know that this doesn't mean that there are more high level players- it means that they are crowding out the more intermediate players. It would be better for there to be more separation for the intermediate players, then they are encouraged to keep playing. If there are more 9 UTRs and they were forced down into L6s because there is too much competition for higher level tournaments, that is great news. Instead, same guys who play L4s and are ranked top 100 in the nation (winner was actually a bit better than that) play in local tournaments hours away from them because there is nothing else to play. We need more tournaments, not just advanced people playing in more tournaments.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize you are still in Juniors. They should for sure have tournaments appropriate for the level of player I agree and have no idea why higher UTRs would sign up for a 6.

Even when my son was playing up he would play 5s and I know there were a lot of the better players that were his peers that played up in all of them except the very highest national tournaments.
 
LOBALOT said:
I didn't realize you are still in Juniors. They should for sure have tournaments appropriate for the level of player I agree and have no idea why higher UTRs would sign up for a 6.

Even when my son was playing up he would play 5s and I know there were a lot of the better players that were his peers that played up in all of them except the very highest national tournaments.
Click to expand...
I’m in 18s at this point, but I think that there is nowhere else for them to play up if they want to retain amateur status for state championships- 4 of the guys made it to at least the semifinals of the state championships (we have 2 divisions of tennis here), and we are by no means a tennis paradise- this is likely the closest tournament for many guys even though they drove over 2 to 3 hours. Level 4s and 5s simply don’t exist in my area, if there are any, it’s once a year. I’m looking for tournaments and within 75 miles of me there is one to two L6 or 7s a month. It’s a bigger issue than just these guys, and I certainly don’t fault them for playing here- I would do the same if I was in their shoes, but USTA as a whole needs to fix this in some way too.
J011yroger said:
This guy gets it!

J
Click to expand...
Thanks man. Just a musing I wrote during my study hall. This means a lot coming from a legend like you.
 
Of course, as a parent of a top jr. volleyball player, we think, going in, that the entry fees are pretty expensive.

Then we are hit with the number of days off work, the cost of the hotels, meals out, etc etc etc

YIKES!
 
stapletonj said:
Of course, as a parent of a top jr. volleyball player, we think, going in, that the entry fees are pretty expensive.

Then we are hit with the number of days off work, the cost of the hotels, meals out, etc etc etc

YIKES!
Click to expand...

I hear you. It was just my wife, our son, and me and we could afford it. I don't understand how families with multiple kids do it.

Between privates, groups, entry fees, hotels, gas/flight costs, equipment, shoes (greater than 1 pair a month), etc. etc etc. we were easily spending > $30k a year.

I do miss it though and would go back and do it again in a heartbeat.
 
LOBALOT said:
I hear you. It was just my wife, our son, and me and we could afford it. I don't understand how families with multiple kids do it.

Between privates, groups, entry fees, hotels, gas/flight costs, equipment, shoes (greater than 1 pair a month), etc. etc etc. we were easily spending > $30k a year.

I do miss it though and would go back and do it again in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...
Wow. All of my lifetime tennis costs combined are not even a third of that. I'm glad you loved it and found it to be worth it- I'm going to reconsider what sports my future kids are going to play now :-D
 
LOBALOT said:
$30k a year.
Click to expand...
guessing this is a low estimate?
was back-of-the-napkin calc'ing what some of high level kids (utr10+) around here pay (2x groups + 1x private / week) alone is already in the 40k range... +30x tourneyFees +sneakers/racquets/strings is ~50k...
haven't even considered travel/hotel costs!
 
nyta2 said:
guessing this is a low estimate?
was back-of-the-napkin calc'ing what some of high level kids (utr10+) around here pay (2x groups + 1x private / week) alone is already in the 40k range... +30x tourneyFees +sneakers/racquets/strings is ~50k...
haven't even considered travel/hotel costs!
Click to expand...
We are in NY...

J
 
nyta2 said:
guessing this is a low estimate?
was back-of-the-napkin calc'ing what some of high level kids (utr10+) around here pay (2x groups + 1x private / week) alone is already in the 40k range... +30x tourneyFees +sneakers/racquets/strings is ~50k...
haven't even considered travel/hotel costs!
Click to expand...

Middle of the Westerner here.

It was off the top of my head. My wife does handle the finances while I handle spending the money.

12 x $100 junior club members = $1,200
8 x 12 x $40 court fees = $3,840
2 x $125 x 25 private = $6,250
2 x $60 x 25 group = $3,000
2.5 x $150 x 12 tournaments = $4,500 (Some months 2 tournaments per month some months 3)
2.5 x 2.5 x $175 x 12 hotels = $13,125 (Some tournaments ran into M, T, etc but this is a good assumption)
2.5 x 2.5 x $60 x 12 gas = $4,500
2.5 x 2.5 x $30 x 12 lunch = $2,250
2.5 x 2.5 x $80 x 12 dinner + beer expenses = $6,000 (One could argue take dad's beer off list. One could argue dad needs after the stress his son put him through in his matches.)
2.5 x 2.5 x $25 x 12 warmup court assuming split 2 ways = $1875
1.5 x $500 airfare = $750 (We flew to at least 1 tournament per year. This figure is probably low)
1.5 x $150 car rental = $225
12 x $130 shoes = $1560 (Gel Res. I forgot how much they were back then)
2 x $75 case of US opens = $150 (Rough guess for brining a couple of cans to tournament for warmup. I use them too).

$49,225

From 12s on he rarely if ever played a local.

I am sure I am missing something. Your $40k-$50k is probably a better estimate.
 
Last edited:
LOBALOT said:
Middle of the Westerner here.

It was off the top of my head. My wife does handle the finances while I handle spending the money.

12 x $100 junior club members = $1,200
8 x 12 x $40 court fees = $3,840
2 x $125 x 25 private = $6,250
2 x $60 x 25 group = $3,000
2.5 x $150 x 12 tournaments = $4,500 (Some months 2 tournaments per month some months 3)
2.5 x 2.5 x $175 x 12 hotels = $13,125 (Some tournaments ran into M, T, etc but this is a good assumption)
2.5 x 2.5 x $60 x 12 gas = $4,500
2.5 x 2.5 x $30 x 12 lunch = $2,250
2.5 x 2.5 x $80 x 12 dinner + beer expenses = $6,000 (One could argue take dad's beer off list. One could argue dad needs after the stress his son put him through in his matches.)
2.5 x 2.5 x $25 x 12 warmup court assuming split 2 ways = $1875
1.5 x $500 airfare = $750 (We flew to at least 1 tournament per year. This figure is probably low)
1.5 x $150 car rental = $225
12 x $130 shoes = $1560 (Gel Res. I forgot how much they were back then)
2 x $75 case of US opens = $150 (Rough guess for brining a couple of cans to tournament for warmup. I use them too).

$49,225

From 12s on he rarely if ever played a local.

I am sure I am missing something. Your $40k-$50k is probably a better estimate.
Click to expand...
side note, spoke to one dad at an itf event (he happened to be staying at the same hotel)... he had several kids in tennis... he bought a giant rv and was driving them around to tourneys - presumably to save on air and hotel :P
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
Do you play level 5 USTA Tournaments? What attracts you to those events?
Replies
9
Views
790
bublikking
bublikking
S
USTA tournaments
Replies
16
Views
2K
Midlife crisis
M
V
My USTA rant
Replies
27
Views
3K
BustedString
B
atatu
The failure of the USTA 55 and over 4.5 experiment
Replies
33
Views
2K
jhick
jhick
aidenous
The USTA rating system and self-rated players
2 3
Replies
120
Views
19K
10ACE
10ACE
Back
Top