USTA Tournament Frustration (10 & Under)

[seminoleG]

Will they do it for green balls? Maybe

If the USTA sees a $$$$ difference in Revenue from Sections that have Green Ball QS vs Regulation tennis I bet that will drive their decision. We will see, but I guess sections that have competitive Juniors will not be forced to adopt QS for 10s in 2012.

Is Florida the only Section that will have regulation for 10s and QS for 10s Rookie?

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

OK if they all should play green ball when is the natural progression to regulation take place? That is the question I can't seem to get from the USTA.

So my point is if 10 is the point to play regulation why make those 10s play up to 12s instead of fellow 10s on regulation courts.

because there aren't that many and the rest are not good enough,

Every kid is different and whenever they are ready, it can be 9 to 10 and 11 month,

Again, your section seems to be an exception. There is no green ball anywhere else. It seemed to be an option in the USTA roll out, so why aren't most sections doing it? No small courts, no hassles. Gotta supply balls anyway. So...

Good point and I don't think they know. Each kid is different which is why there should be a CHOICE. My son went through orange balls from 5-6 and green balls from 7-8. We used them in training extensively, but not exclusively. We also used regular balls for toss and feeds. Now he is late 8 and plays regulation just fine. The problem with moving him to 12s for competition isn't that he can't play well enough, but the physical difference those 2-3 years make. It is huge in most cases and I don't think the USTA takes that into account.

The USTA knows it is a huge difference that is why they mandated it in 2011 instead of 2012 in my section, one year early, and the rest will follow.

The USTA is trying to emulate soccer and that is dumb.

The time and effort needed to play little QS tournaments is so much more than soccer or basketball. Thus most parents will not do it or can not do it.

This is why Quickstart type training has always existed only at specific facilities and not in a tournament format.

Once kids get good enough to play 'real' tennis, some parents will then invest the time to take them to tournaments. They will not do it for red or orange ball tournies. Will they do it for green balls? Maybe.
.

so basically you are saying that US parents are fickle and lazy, we, nor the directors will do it because of the time and effort. Well maybe we should invest in the time and effort. Nothing is easy especially tennis. I will tell you why the reason, because we have elite wannbe tennis parents that think their kids are too good to play QS that think their 7-8 is the next federer/nadal /sharapova. They should get off their ***, go and have some fun in a tournament style situation and support their QS program even if it takes a little effort and some pride scratching.

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

You are beginning to make some sense................. are you saying Florida coaches and parents are arrogant !?!?!?!

I can tell you why South Florida isn't. NO COACH will go on record opposing Green Ball, but they also won't teach it.

With Parents spending $$$$$$ they are not going to pay for Green Ball PERIOD DOT!

I know that Macci supports QS then why if you go up there NO ONE is teaching it!

ALL LIP SERVICE, and Florida USTA knows that folks with lots of $$$$$ going to these academies are just not going to pay for Green Ball (JV Tennis)

Will they do it for green balls? Maybe

If the USTA sees a $$$$ difference in Revenue from Sections that have Green Ball QS vs Regulation tennis I bet that will drive their decision. We will see, but I guess sections that have competitive Juniors will not be forced to adopt QS for 10s in 2012.

Is Florida the only Section that will have regulation for 10s and QS for 10s Rookie?

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

so basically you are saying that US parents are fickle and lazy, we, nor the directors will do it because of the time and effort. Well maybe we should invest in the time and effort. Nothing is easy especially tennis. I will tell you why the reason, because we have elite wannbe tennis parents that think their kids are too good to play QS that think their 7-8 is the next federer/nadal /sharapova. They should get off their ***, go and have some fun in a tournament style situation and support their QS program even if it takes a little effort and some pride scratching.

ProTour....you have to be realistic. If your kid can play soccer with his peers and get a lot of exercise and have fun and all of it happens in your home town its all good.

We are trying to get more families to choose tennis as one of their several sports as kids. And hopefully more stick with it as they get older. That means inexpensive programs right in the home town. It means helping good kids coaches provide services for more players at existing underused facilities. Support the coaches and they will get the kids interested.

It is not realistic to think parents with lots of choices are going to drive the kids 100 miles every other weekend to play QS tournaments.

To be quite honest, that would be a waste of time anyway. Kids under 10 have zero need to play tennis tournaments, especially ones that require travel. They should be getting a wide base of athletic skills at that age as close to home as possible. They can get all the tennis they need 1-2 times a week at a local facility with games and practice matches against other kids in that particular club/park's program.

There is no pay off to a network of QS tournaments.

Tennis is unique, it takes more money and time. Most parents will not and should not get to crazy until the kids are good enough to play regular tournaments. Quickstart is a nice short term training tool in a localized setting, it should not be a long term program.

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

ProTour....you have to be realistic. If your kid can play soccer with his peers and get a lot of exercise and have fun and all of it happens in your home town its all good.

We are trying to get more families to choose tennis as one of their several sports as kids. And hopefully more stick with it as they get older. That means inexpensive programs right in the home town. It means helping good kids coaches provide services for more players at existing underused facilities. Support the coaches and they will get the kids interested.

It is not realistic to think parents with lots of choices are going to drive the kids 100 miles every other weekend to play QS tournaments.

To be quite honest, that would be a waste of time anyway. Kids under 10 have zero need to play tennis tournaments, especially ones that require travel. They should be getting a wide base of athletic skills at that age as close to home as possible. They can get all the tennis they need 1-2 times a week at a local facility with games and practice matches against other kids in that particular club/park's program.

There is no pay off to a network of QS tournaments.

Tennis is unique, it takes more money and time. Most parents will not and should not get to crazy until the kids are good enough to play regular tournaments. Quickstart is a nice short term training tool in a localized setting, it should not be a long term program.

I live in an area that has a dozen QS U8 and a dozen QS U10 tournaments (two per month) all within 150 miles. My local hometown has ZERO QS tournaments with 1/2 dozen top notch tennis facility within a 25 mile radius. That is very telling.:twisted: It will be my job to promote more QS tournaments by 2012 in my area. I am doing my part and if everyone across the country does his share I think we can make this happen. So far I have run into the old geezer coaches with over 30 years experience who think It will never happen (they may be right), even though I have cough few of them using (in the closet) QS balls :shock: and their only complaint or issue is that they have to push the basket full of QS balls from court to court or QS balls will not bounce high enough on Hartru for their backs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, please, they have become institutionalized into teaching one way

 

[chalkflewup]

Thank you Pro Tour for being an ambassador for our sport...what a great response.

 

[Larrysümmers]

ProTour....you have to be realistic. If your kid can play soccer with his peers and get a lot of exercise and have fun and all of it happens in your home town its all good.

We are trying to get more families to choose tennis as one of their several sports as kids. And hopefully more stick with it as they get older. That means inexpensive programs right in the home town. It means helping good kids coaches provide services for more players at existing underused facilities. Support the coaches and they will get the kids interested.

It is not realistic to think parents with lots of choices are going to drive the kids 100 miles every other weekend to play QS tournaments.

To be quite honest, that would be a waste of time anyway. Kids under 10 have zero need to play tennis tournaments, especially ones that require travel. They should be getting a wide base of athletic skills at that age as close to home as possible. They can get all the tennis they need 1-2 times a week at a local facility with games and practice matches against other kids in that particular club/park's program.

There is no pay off to a network of QS tournaments.

Tennis is unique, it takes more money and time. Most parents will not and should not get to crazy until the kids are good enough to play regular tournaments. Quickstart is a nice short term training tool in a localized setting, it should not be a long term program.

you know, this is a good point. the reason why i didnt play play tennis until high school was price. baseball was a whole season+ all stars if you were good enough for 30 er so bucks. same with soccer to play it was like $30. but tennis was $70 for a couple days in July. but after that you were screwed because there wasnt anywhere to play unless you drive an hour and a half. but that gets pricey then you have the costs of playing isnt too cheap.

 

[TennisNinja]

Everytime I see a picture or video where there are specially designed courts for QS, it pisses me off because that's taking up valuable space for real courts.

 

[Larrysümmers]

Everytime I see a picture or video where there are specially designed courts for QS, it pisses me off because that's taking up valuable space for real courts.

I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

I live in an area that has a dozen QS U8 and a dozen QS U10 tournaments (two per month) all within 150 miles. My local hometown has ZERO QS tournaments with 1/2 dozen top notch tennis facility within a 25 mile radius. That is very telling.:twisted: It will be my job to promote more QS tournaments by 2012 in my area. I am doing my part and if everyone across the country does his share I think we can make this happen. So far I have run into the old geezer coaches with over 30 years experience who think It will never happen (they may be right), even though I have cough few of them using (in the closet) QS balls :shock: and their only complaint or issue is that they have to push the basket full of QS balls from court to court or QS balls will not bounce high enough on Hartru for their backs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, please, they have become institutionalized into teaching one way

You and the USTA are fighting the wrong battle. The goal of all of us, including the USTA, is to grow the sport of tennis. We compete today with video games, 2000 TV stations, video on demand, the internet, and many other sports.

The problem with making tennis popular with kids is not that it is too hard. That is not why kids do not try tennis, that is not why they quit tennis.

They do not try tennis because of many reasons. Availability, cost, cool factor, other things they like better.

So we need to take on those factors. Hire spokespeople to promote tennis on popular kids shows. Get whoever is cool these days playing tennis. Subsidizing local facilities so kids can afford to keep playing.

All you have to do is bring us more kids to teach....thats all. So we teach 20 classes a week instead of 10. We will use the SAME mini tennis balls and nets for beginners as we have done for 30 years. We won't have 5 year olds hitting regular balls over their heads. We will take them through the progressions of tennis at the local club or park like we always do.

And do not cite some 70 year old coach who hits regular balls to 5 year olds who just picked up a racquet, there are old out of touch codgers in every sport. 99.999999% of today's coaches know all about low compression balls and have used them as training tools for years and years. Quickstart is nothing new at all....forcing tournaments is new...but we have been using smaller nets and court areas and softer balls for 30 years.

Some will stick with it, some will not, just like any sport. Some will go on to start tournaments in the 10s. Some will just play for fun.

Tennis is fairly popular these days. Most coaches I know have kids to teach. Sure there is a recession and some of my buddies are out of work, but many of us we still have our kids. The USTA just needs to help us add to them so all my guys can get back to work.

The kids nor parents have no interest in driving 6-7-8-9 year olds to tournaments. 150 miles? Parents have no need nor desire to drive kids over 10 miles to hit a soft ball back and forth for an hour....none, zero, zip.

We play plenty of fun games against other kids at the club and parks. All is fine once we get the kids to try tennis.

I do not get what battle you and the USTA are fighting? The parents and kids are not unhappy with the current lessons or localized practice match play for the U10s. No one is quitting because they want more Quickstart tournies. They don't want or need them during this phase of tennis.

All we need is MORE kids to come out to our existing classes and clinics and give it a try. Thats all....just promote the game to kids.

The USTA and you are trying to fix a nonexisting problem while not addressing the very basics....just get more kids to try the existing tennis classes. The ones that stick with it will play the regular 10s tournies just like always....just like some kids start up travel soccer or basketball once they get to be 10-11-12.

Sorry but since you mentioned your 5 year old wanting to be like his 8 year old brother and play tournaments.....it sounds to me that you and some other tennis parents do not want to wait until the kids are in the 10s to win little trophies or be called 'winners' for your kids pitty patting balls at each other. Sounds like some folks need that stuff to happen now at 5-6-7. Seems like a big waste of money for such a silly little thing. Our little ones are just fine getting high fives and not plastic trinkets at that age. Have not had one quit yet because they could not go play a QS tournament.

 

[chalkflewup]

All you need is the USTA to bring you more kids? I see a coach pulling up to a club in a Porsche and charging $100 an hour and you want the USTA to bring you more kids to teach? I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with this bitter anti-USTA attitude. As a coach, be an ambassador for the sport and go out and grow the game, network at the schools, talk to other coaches, set up ladders with other clubs, create some excitement, etc... We need more blue collar coaches that are willing to roll up their sleeves, get their hands dirty, get creative, and work together to grow the game.

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

You and the USTA are fighting the wrong battle. The goal of all of us, including the USTA, is to grow the sport of tennis. We compete today with video games, 2000 TV stations, video on demand, the internet, and many other sports.

We are fighting a war, and so do all the other sports that are competing with the same stuff you are siting yet they still have their organized tournaments for 5-10 year olds. Why not in tennis? because you said so?

The problem with making tennis popular with kids is not that it is too hard. That is not why kids do not try tennis, that is not why they quit tennis.

Yes it is, it is too hard for 5-10 beginners using inappropriate equipment and gear in addition to not having any organized tournaments where they can have fun and compete, just like in little league and soccer etc....

They do not try tennis because of many reasons. Availability, cost, cool factor, other things they like better.

Yes I agree, but why leave out the organized QS tournaments, especially when we are trying to promote them and have them readily available. When the kids see other parents watching cheering and winning maybe there will be more interest and a purpose rather than the senseless boring drills.

So we need to take on those factors. Hire spokespeople to promote tennis on popular kids shows. Get whoever is cool these days playing tennis. Subsidizing local facilities so kids can afford to keep playing.

I agree, in addition to organized QS tournaments. You are treating organized QS tournaments as if it is disease which will be devastating to our sport? I don't get it.

All you have to do is bring us more kids to teach....thats all. So we teach 20 classes a week instead of 10. We will use the SAME mini tennis balls and nets for beginners as we have done for 30 years. We won't have 5 year olds hitting regular balls over their heads. We will take them through the progressions of tennis at the local club or park like we always do.

So you and your guys make more? is that it? "take racquet back high and off hand extended down the line", that is if they say this during clinics, that will be $75 thank you. Sorry I ain't buying into it. All the coaches in my section were clueless about any type of ball other than regulation balls. All I have seen are out of touch geezers playing Jailbreak to 4-8 year olds using regular balls on regular nets feeding (not by hand) from the same position. Sorry it gets a little too boring to only play Jailbreak and do few drills. My boys love it when they compete. I am sure organized QS competition will fuel that desire.

And do not cite some 70 year old coach who hits regular balls to 5 year olds who just picked up a racquet, there are old out of touch codgers in every sport. 99.999999% of today's coaches know all about low compression balls and have used them as training tools for years and years. Quickstart is nothing new at all....forcing tournaments is new...but we have been using smaller nets and court areas and softer balls for 30 years.

Nope, that is not true. Read above.

Some will stick with it, some will not, just like any sport. Some will go on to start tournaments in the 10s. Some will just play for fun.

And some will compete in organized QS tournaments, why deny them that? because you said so? Some might quit because they might drop the game all together if they loose in a tournament where they see no progress using regulation that they are not good enough, which is why organized QS tournaments are important, they level the playing fields, the kids are not overwhelmed.


Tennis is fairly popular these days. Most coaches I know have kids to teach. Sure there is a recession and some of my buddies are out of work, but many of us we still have our kids. The USTA just needs to help us add to them so all my guys can get back to work.

Yes it is popular in my section as well, and our club is the most successful in the area. It was only this year that we added QS, driven by young personable coaches who are willing to try new ideas.

The kids nor parents have no interest in driving 6-7-8-9 year olds to tournaments. 150 miles? Parents have no need nor desire to drive kids over 10 miles to hit a soft ball back and forth for an hour....none, zero, zip.

They do "travel" talented (8-9 year olds) across town for soccer? When we have more organized QS tournaments in every town maybe there will be no need to travel that far. Why are you so against that idea?

We play plenty of fun games against other kids at the club and parks. All is fine once we get the kids to try tennis. Like Jailbreak

I do not get what battle you and the USTA are fighting? The parents and kids are not unhappy with the current lessons or localized practice match play for the U10s. No one is quitting because they want more Quickstart tournies. They don't want or need them during this phase of tennis.

Nope not true, you do not know that, sorry. Just because you do not want your kid competing at this stage does not mean every kid across this nation should not be able to.

All we need is MORE kids to come out to our existing classes and clinics and give it a try. Thats all....just promote the game to kids.

Agree, add organized QS tournaments maybe things will get more interesting. Organized QS tournaments is not promoting the game to kids

The USTA and you are trying to fix a nonexisting problem while not addressing the very basics....just get more kids to try the existing tennis classes. The ones that stick with it will play the regular 10s tournies just like always....just like some kids start up travel soccer or basketball once they get to be 10-11-12.

talented travel soccer players are as young as 7-8, you want to deny them this right, why? if more organized QS tournaments pop up there will be no need to travel that far, it will be local within 25 miles

Sorry but since you mentioned your 5 year old wanting to be like his 8 year old brother and play tournaments.....it sounds to me that you and some other tennis parents do not want to wait until the kids are in the 10s to win little trophies or be called 'winners' for your kids pitty patting balls at each other. Sounds like some folks need that stuff to happen now at 5-6-7. Seems like a big waste of money for such a silly little thing. Our little ones are just fine getting high fives and not plastic trinkets at that age. Have not had one quit yet because they could not go play a QS tournament.

^^^^^ It seems you have not seen your daughter compete for an actual real tournament where it matters to her, too bad you are denying her that right. You have not seen her eyes pop out with that look and that big smile across her beautiful little face. It has nothing to do with plastic trophies and being called "winners" and you know that. When it actually happens to your daughter, not someone else, you will know what I am talking about. Until then, you can travel back and forth from Sarasota to Boca for your daughters tennis but without organized QS tournaments it gets a little boring and silly :neutral: Why just few weeks ago you were discouraged and wanted to call it quits, you did not but the thought was in your mind. You were complaining about how the "level" of tennis was low to compared to where you came from Had there been organized QS tournaments with talent like your daughter in your area maybe you would not have felt that.

TCF, I appreciate all your efforts and wish/hope your daughter will compete sooner rather than later. I have said so few times already.

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

All you need is the USTA to bring you more kids? I see a coach pulling up to a club in a Porsche and charging $100 an hour and you want the USTA to bring you more kids to teach? I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with this bitter anti-USTA attitude. As a coach, be an ambassador for the sport and go out and grow the game, network at the schools, talk to other coaches, set up ladders with other clubs, create some excitement, etc... We need more blue collar coaches that are willing to roll up their sleeves, get their hands dirty, get creative, and work together to grow the game.

His post below says it all, I got TCF to rethink organized tournaments for U10 using green ball, that was the compromise, with this post http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5294424&postcount=41 then the thread turned into thinking that if kids compete without perfect textbook strokes, it will hurt their future this is the bottom line, too bad

Let us know how it goes. I think we are going to skip the whole U10 thing anyway. Just do our fun training, rallies, drills. Play other sports with the neighborhood kids. Lots of jumping and climbing and monkey bars at the playground.

When she is good enough to compete in the 12s with regular balls then we will venture in.

I guess I don't put much stock in the need for organized USTA competition for the U10s, especially now with the jumble of orange balls and green balls and regular balls and short courts and regular courts. And I totally see no need for actual Quickstart format tournaments. I get that they want to hook kids into tennis early and most parents demand competition.

I just don't see the need in our situation, which is a talented girl who just likes to bash the ball around. She plays basketball in the driveway with the other kids and they are all going full out, trying to look like the NBA guys. They get a pickup soccer game going and are running and kicking full speed, looking like real soccer players. Then I watch an U10 and the kids tap the balls back and forth, and look nothing like real tennis players. Just does not do it for me and I don't see the value in it.

Seems easier and less expensive just to chill and do our thing. Tennis tournaments will be there 4-5 years from now.

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

All you need is the USTA to bring you more kids? I see a coach pulling up to a club in a Porsche and charging $100 an hour and you want the USTA to bring you more kids to teach? I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with this bitter anti-USTA attitude. As a coach, be an ambassador for the sport and go out and grow the game, network at the schools, talk to other coaches, set up ladders with other clubs, create some excitement, etc... We need more blue collar coaches that are willing to roll up their sleeves, get their hands dirty, get creative, and work together to grow the game.

The USTA/ITA QuickStart Provider of the Year Award recognizes coaches who have worked hard to bring the 10 & Under tennis and the QuickStart format to their campus. The USTA list of criteria to become a QuickStart Provider includes:

1) hosting free/low cost QuickStart festivals on campus,

2) hosting (or have attended) a USTA QuickStart training,

3) using QuickStart playing format on campus,

4) hosting a USTA sanctioned 10 & Under or 8 & Under tournament, quick let us get out the noose, TCF does not agree :roll:

5) using QuickStart in the Adopt-a-school program,

6) involved in a 10 & Under JTT program,

7) have agreed to or have already installed permanent QuickStart lines on campus tennis courts. ( oh my god what a waste of real estate, let us build bigger football stadiums ):roll:

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

After many years of research by the USTA and the ITF it has been proven that organized U10 tournaments are healthy for the development of tennis.

below are just a few:

http://www.tennisindustry.org/news/...-connecticut-clubs-participate-in-qst-tourney

"Traditional tennis coaching involves a lot of line feeding but [in QST] our players are active at all times and this has drastically improved their experience and we are seeing results on the court," he added. "This is the best thing we have ever done. David Budler has done a great job with the free match play on the weekends."

http://www.waltonsun.com/articles/largest-5881-tennis-quickstart.html

http://www.midatlantic.usta.com/QuickStart/Tournaments/

http://10andundertennis.com/Programs_frasl__Events/Tournaments.htm


Tournaments
The goal of 10 and Under Tennis is to get kids playing as quickly and capably as possible, and this includes tournament tennis. The purpose of tournaments utilizing the QuickStart Tennis play format is not to crown champions or to establish rankings, but to help kids learn the strategy and tactics of tennis by playing matches. The more matches kids play, the more they will learn about the game.

There are QuickStart Tennis tournaments all across the country. The tournaments are held on the appropriate-sized courts and require the appropriate racquets (21-, 23- or 25-inch) and balls (foam or low compression). There are both tournaments organized by USTA volunteers and staff as well as non-USTA tournaments.

The formats of the tournaments vary, but most feature non-elimination formats such as compass draws and round robins, and are played in three to four hours. These formats allow kids to play lots of matches against a variety of opponents in one tournament—meaning little travel for maximum play opportunities.

The modified scoring system advocated through 10 and Under Tennis is used in these tournaments. The nature of the scoring system introduces a time-defined element that makes these tournaments attractive for players new to competition.


To learn more about tournaments utilizing the QuickStart Tennis play format, contact your USTA section office.

Sanctioned QuickStart Tennis Tournaments
Sanctioned QuickStart Tennis events are tournaments that have been approved by your USTA section. The competition at these tournaments will likely be more formal than non-sanctioned tournaments, and these events will likely be organized by those who make their living in the tennis business. Look for these events at tennis clubs, public tennis facilities, schools and colleges.


Non-sanctioned QuickStart Tennis Tournaments
Non-sanctioned QuickStart Tennis tournaments are events not affiliated with the USTA. The competition is likely to be less formal and may be played on non-traditional surfaces, but will be no less fun or beneficial than sanctioned events. Non-sanctioned tournaments will likely be organized by parents or local youth organizations such as Boys and Girls Clubs. Look for these events in parks, YMCAs or even shopping center parking lots. (god forbids TCF agrees to this it will ruin their tennis stroke)

 

[seminoleG]

Pro Tour
As a parent who knew nothing about Tennis I get the feeling the USTA has adopted a "we know what's best" attitude on this issue.

First off the time/money involved in Tennis make it as unique as fencing/wrestling/ or gymnastics as a sport. Not even close to any team sport. So the USTA needs to adjust its analogies.

Second as a 2 Sport College Scholarship Varsity Letter Athlete (Track/Football) I know what it takes to compete at the highest level. Kids that can play with regulation (Adult) equipment with the skill and athleticism to properly apply technique. Not Win/Lose but get into position is what the desired result should be for Youngsters (pre High School) In High School they start to apply tactics and develop their own strategy to succeed. Now we need to apply this to Tennis. This is what the EXPERTS and I mean that with respect get paid to do.

So USTA tells me that QS format was not for weak players, it is to improve the play of all players. I am also told that we need to grow the number of players in the sport and this format will also do that

Is it your opinion that regulation tennis prevents folks from starting/continuing to play?

My opinion is the time money it takes to play Tennis will result in less participation then in the past. Tennis takes ACTIVE participation from parents unlike any other sport.

I spend 14+ hours a week at the court watching or hitting balls to my daughter, and folks ask what about my 4yo son. Will he play Tennis hell no!

Not because I don't like the sport but the cost in time and energy is to much. Now that is irrespective of QS or Regulation format.

So King for a day: How do they get my 4yo into tennis.

USTA - Demographic research will show the areas with most Kids. Use this to choose where to put QS Academies

Place USTA QS Instructors at these academies (not just give grants for equipment/courts) USTA should be buying all the equipment needed anyway. Salary employees run these Academies

Run Academies every day but Sunday. (2 X sessions on Saturday) for $50 a month(Big City rate adjusted for Cost of Living).
Kids could attend 1-2-3-4-5-6 days a week their choice.

Run Academy Match Play every week with Trophies/Medals/Gifts with USTA players guest appearing. Yes these should be like Festivals/jamborees similar to what they do in Soccer. My local park has a Tennis Camp they run for ~$5.00 class 2 days a week. Every class is close to max ~30 kids. There is no lack of interest.

So when these parents see the Academy kids they do ask and are told the Price/Time they give you the hell no look. Do they care if Johnnie misses every ball? Does Johnny care if he misses every ball? No they show up and honestly from the laughing we see they have a ball. But how do you translate that fun/excitement into REAL TENNIS. USTA believes it is QS, I don't disagree with that.

Problem is TENNIS is a serious sport for Juniors. It takes a mature and athletic young kid to do average. Frankly the USTA is overestimating how many of these kids exist. Last night my Daughter had a Private lesson so I went to the courts with the kids at the Park Camp. Out of 30 Kids there were ~5 that have some athletic ability. I saw one that looks like she has some natural ability good hand eye. ( My qualifications to make this comment = coached Pee Wee Soccer, HS Football, and Taught Swimming Water Babies to Tiny Tots-pre Teen) So does the USTA want all 30? Just the 5? Just the 1? When you saw you want to grow Tennis like Soccer you need to break that down. Yes wtih QS you would get ~15+ that would play OK and then what?

Last point - My Daughter plays Travel Soccer. Now it cost us $600 for the year (bargain compared to tennis) and we pay ~$50 for each tournament they enter ~4-5 year (practice 2 x Week). There are at least 3 girls that have no business on the field but they play and their parents pay. Do I think they would play if it cost $1000.00 and 5 days a week for practice. No at some point they would not. So why would you expect parents to invest time and money on tennis kids in the same situation. How about make the Soccer field even smaller so they don't get "Frustrated" There are a cadre of kids with Little athletic ability but seem to have fun and that is what QS IMHO is aimed to please. When I say QS in this instance not referring to Green Ball

Bottom line is the USTA is making arguments form all angles and bottom line is more kids = more $$$$$ for all involved in Tennis. 41% of 10s playing up anyway, #'s of kids in Tennis vs Soccer, Kids Frustration, Kids in 10s not being able to develop their game, yada, yada are all great but the Time/Cost issue for parents is the biggest barrier to entry and nothing is being done about that.

 

[seminoleG]

Tournaments
The goal of 10 and Under Tennis is to get kids playing as quickly and capably as possible, and this includes tournament tennis. The purpose of tournaments utilizing the QuickStart Tennis play format is not to crown champions or to establish rankings, but to help kids learn the strategy and tactics of tennis by playing matches. The more matches kids play, the more they will learn about the game.

This is good. My daughter practiced for 14 months before she was entered into a Rookie Tournament. Her competitors look as if they practiced for 14 days.
The hold up was more about how to keep score, and administrative issues not playing issues.

This is also why a format for 10s for on court guidance would eliminate a lot of early tournament frustration. As in other SPORTS game time guidance coaching is permitted. The USTA should have addressed this aspect also.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

All you need is the USTA to bring you more kids? I see a coach pulling up to a club in a Porsche and charging $100 an hour and you want the USTA to bring you more kids to teach? I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with this bitter anti-USTA attitude. As a coach, be an ambassador for the sport and go out and grow the game, network at the schools, talk to other coaches, set up ladders with other clubs, create some excitement, etc... We need more blue collar coaches that are willing to roll up their sleeves, get their hands dirty, get creative, and work together to grow the game.

chalkflewup.....you could not be any more wrong. For every tennis pro rolling up in a fancy car there are 500 more that are not.

I volunteer 10 hours a week at the local park as do most other coaches I know. We deal with at risk kids. We have changed lives. Most of us enjoy what we do in exchange for very little profit.

The USTA has blown millions upon millions paying CEOs golden parachcutes, employing their buddies at huge salaries, over charging for tournaments.

They are a horribly run good old boys network that throws a few thousand to the peons for every million they give out in executive salaries.

If the USTA was not corrupt they would have millions more to spend in the trenches and the game would indeed grow fast.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

SeminoleG....your post explaining the realities of junior tennis is a thing of beauty.

ProTour sounds exactly like the USTA combined with a handful of out of touch ego drive tennis parents.

No one needs or wants these Quickstart tournaments. They serve no purpose. Its common sense...basketball and soccer and other sports have side line coaches and officials that help tiny kids with the rules and games. Tennis does not.

So its common sense that kids would wait a little longer to go into match and tournament play in tennis because TENNIS IS NOT LIKE OTHER SPORTS!!

Tennis lends itself to local lessons and games at ages 4-9, thats what the customers want. Soccer lends itself to more local or mild travel events at that age, that is what the customers want. Olympic cross country rifle shooting lends itself to yet another type of training system.

Every sport has customers who want a set up that works for them.

The customers...tennis parents and kids aged 4-9 do not want what the USTA is trying to force upon them.

And any tennis parent or local coach would have told them that....had they asked. And once again I will repeat this....we have ALWAYS used a Quickstart type format with little kids in lessons. Its old stuff. Adding tournaments to the mix was never needed nor wanted.

And this nonsense about needing to compete in a tournament at ages 5-6-7-8 for development is pure silliness. I bet you Fed and many other top pros were playing soccer at those ages and didn't even know how to keep score at age 5-8.

 

[seminoleG]

chalkflewup.....you could not be any more wrong. For every tennis pro rolling up in a fancy car there are 500 more that are not.

I volunteer 10 hours a week at the local park as do most other coaches I know. We deal with at risk kids. We have changed lives. Most of us enjoy what we do in exchange for very little profit.

The USTA has blown millions upon millions paying CEOs golden parachcutes, employing their buddies at huge salaries, over charging for tournaments.

They are a horribly run good old boys network that throws a few thousand to the peons for every million they give out in executive salaries.

If the USTA was not corrupt they would have millions more to spend in the trenches and the game would indeed grow fast.

DING DING DING

Furthermore look at what the other Major Sports have invested! I am so tired of seeing that Play 60 Atlanta Falcons commercial. My Kids sing to it. I have never seen a QS or Youth/Junior Tennis ANYTHING.

 

[ga tennis]

chalkflewup.....you could not be any more wrong. For every tennis pro rolling up in a fancy car there are 500 more that are not.

I volunteer 10 hours a week at the local park as do most other coaches I know. We deal with at risk kids. We have changed lives. Most of us enjoy what we do in exchange for very little profit.

The USTA has blown millions upon millions paying CEOs golden parachcutes, employing their buddies at huge salaries, over charging for tournaments.

They are a horribly run good old boys network that throws a few thousand to the peons for every million they give out in executive salaries.

If the USTA was not corrupt they would have millions more to spend in the trenches and the game would indeed grow fast.

T.C.F Im glad your back.I was upset when i read your post that said you and your baby were getting out of tennis.I hate the new 10 and under quickstart format.In Georgia my daughter and all the other top 8 9 and 10 year olds will have to play the 12s.It makes no since for these top girls to have to play quickstart.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

T.C.F Im glad your back.I was upset when i read your post that said you and your baby were getting out of tennis.I hate the new 10 and under quickstart format.In Georgia my daughter and all the other top 8 9 and 10 year olds will have to play the 12s.It makes no since for these top girls to have to play quickstart.

Thanks GA....yeah needed a breather but we are back and my kid loves it more than ever.

We will take our time and when she enters the 12s she will knock the stuffing out of all these QS trained kids!!

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

DING DING DING

Furthermore look at what the other Major Sports have invested! I am so tired of seeing that Play 60 Atlanta Falcons commercial. My Kids sing to it. I have never seen a QS or Youth/Junior Tennis ANYTHING.

here you go,

http://www.usta.com/Youth-Tennis/its_a_whole_new_ball_game/

 

[ClarkC]

All you have to do is bring us more kids to teach....thats all. So we teach 20 classes a week instead of 10. We will use the SAME mini tennis balls and nets for beginners as we have done for 30 years. We won't have 5 year olds hitting regular balls over their heads. We will take them through the progressions of tennis at the local club or park like we always do.

So you and your guys make more? is that it? "take racquet back high and off hand extended down the line", that is if they say this during clinics, that will be $75 thank you.

If you want a serious and productive discussion, you need to make arguments in good faith and not blatantly mischaracterize what others are saying. TennisCoachFLA has been advocating increasing the size of the pool of tennis kids for quite some time on this forum, in order to get a greater number of good athletes in hopes of producing top pros, which will generate role models and publicity for the sport in America. To turn his advocacy for growing the sport into a selfish desire to make more money teaching lessons is not a good faith argument.

Not sure why this topic is so sensitive to you, but you are behaving like a jerk. Jerks can argue forever, but they do not persuade anyone to join their side.

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

Thanks GA....yeah needed a breather but we are back and my kid loves it more than ever.

We will take our time and when she enters the 12s she will knock the stuffing out of all these QS trained kids!!

I doubt it, ego driven

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

it sounds to me that you and some other tennis parents do not want to wait until the kids are in the 10s to win little trophies or be called 'winners' for your kids pitty patting balls at each other. Sounds like some folks need that stuff to happen now at 5-6-7. Seems like a big waste of money for such a silly little thing.

Your real intent is showing Protour.....elitist USTA thinking.....

ProTour sounds exactly like the USTA combined with a handful of out of touch ego drive tennis parents.

If you want a serious and productive discussion, you need to make arguments in good faith and not blatantly mischaracterize what others are saying. TennisCoachFLA has been advocating increasing the size of the pool of tennis kids for quite some time on this forum, in order to get a greater number of good athletes in hopes of producing top pros, which will generate role models and publicity for the sport in America. To turn his advocacy for growing the sport into a selfish desire to make more money teaching lessons is not a good faith argument.

Not sure why this topic is so sensitive to you, but you are behaving like a jerk. Jerks can argue forever, but they do not persuade anyone to join their side.

NO TCF wants us to stop taking our kids to tournaments unless they have perfect strokes, that is what he is doing and he wants all of us to do the same, pay the coaches $75-$100 for private lessons so a 5-8 can have a perfect stroke before entering a tournament

so put off everything I have posted you managed to pick that one line? talk about mischaracterization?!?!?!?

chalkflewup mentioned money as well $100 per hour etc......

Heck Macci charging $300 for privates for a 7 year old to have perfect strokes what a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is what they want?!?!?!?! MORE KIDS SO THEY CAN CHARGE $300!???!?!

 

[ga tennis]

Thanks GA....yeah needed a breather but we are back and my kid loves it more than ever.

We will take our time and when she enters the 12s she will knock the stuffing out of all these QS trained kids!!

In Georgia next year the only 8 9 and 10 year olds that will play quickstart will be begginers.The good 8 9 and 10 year olds are way way too good to play baby tennis.It will be hard at first for my 8 year old to compete with the 12s but in the long run it will make her stronger.

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

This is good. My daughter practiced for 14 months before she was entered into a Rookie Tournament. Her competitors look as if they practiced for 14 days.
The hold up was more about how to keep score, and administrative issues not playing issues.

This is also why a format for 10s for on court guidance would eliminate a lot of early tournament frustration. As in other SPORTS game time guidance coaching is permitted. The USTA should have addressed this aspect also.

in time there will be better players who are like your daughter playing QS tournaments, you should hook up with girls like TCF daughter now why wait until they are 10 to play tournaments,

The USTA QS is a learning process in time they will iron out the kinks

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

Is it your opinion that regulation tennis prevents folks from starting/continuing to play?.

Sorry I could only answer one of your question I will respond to your long post later,

Yes in my opinion regulation prevents 8 year olds (not Elite) from playing their best tennis

I agree with your time and money issue which will be addressed but I do not agree to hold off an advanced 8 year old from entering tournaments (you haven't) just because their strokes are not texted book polished, this is the bottom line of TCF argument, money and time is secondary

 

[ga tennis]

in time there will be better players who are like your daughter playing QS tournaments, you should hook up with girls like TCF daughter now why wait until they are 10 to play tournaments,

The USTA QS is a learning process in time they will iron out the kinks

The problem i have with the U.S.T.A isnt quickstart.I think quickstart is great for teaching little kids when they first start but dont punish all the other kids that are 10 and under and make them play quickstart.We travel to tournaments constantly and EVERY parent i talk to hates the mandatory quickstart rule.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

NO TCF wants us to stop taking our kids to tournaments unless they have perfect strokes, that is what he is doing and he wants all of us to do the same, pay the coaches $75-$100 for private lessons so a 5-8 can have a perfect stroke before entering a tournament

Not at all. The customers do not want to drive their 5-8 year olds to QS tournaments. They want them to have fun at a local park or club 1-2 times a week. They want them to learn the game while mixing in fun games. They could care less if they can keep score and manage themselves at a tournament when they are 7.

And where do you get this $75-100 thing you keep talking about? For every high priced pro there are many other programs at local parks and schools.

We conduct lessons and clinics all the time, some kids pay nothing, some clinics might work out to a few bucks per kid. Some parents opt for semi privates which in many areas cost them $20/hour.

Your real intent is showing Protour.....elitist USTA thinking....the great USTA will find the next American champ. The champ will be a country club kid with lessons and tournies from age 5. A kid whose parents live through little Muffy's tennis and will drive her to QS tournies 200 miles away and put her winning trinkets on the wall.

Nope....the inner city may very likely have the next champ. A kid who goes to free clinics using old racquets. A kid who gets spotted and given attention by a local coach. A kid whose talent is so glaring that some big academy scoops them up and the USTA never knows them until he/she womps on their kids in the 14s. And a kid who hit QS balls at those first clinics, then moved on to real balls, but never came within 100 miles of a QS tourny.

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

T.C.F Im glad your back.I was upset when i read your post that said you and your baby were getting out of tennis.I hate the new 10 and under quickstart format.In Georgia my daughter and all the other top 8 9 and 10 year olds will have to play the 12s.It makes no since for these top girls to have to play quickstart.

GA glad your girl had perfect textbook strokes before you entered her in a tournament or else TCF would have been all over you for destroying her tennis future

 

[seminoleG]

The problem i have with the U.S.T.A isnt quickstart.I think quickstart is great for teaching little kids when they first start but dont punish all the other kids that are 10 and under and make them play quickstart.We travel to tournaments constantly and EVERY parent i talk to hates the mandatory quickstart rule.

GA
USTA has stated they expect this issue to effect ~11,000 kids. They are OK with that. In other words our 8-9-10 year olds having to play 12s is just a consequnce of the new direction.

I suggest you get with the other top 8-9-10's and play Club style Tournaments. Non Sanctioned but competitive.

Pro T - Sorry for the long Post just wanted to give you some meat to chew

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

The problem i have with the U.S.T.A isnt quickstart.I think quickstart is great for teaching little kids when they first start but dont punish all the other kids that are 10 and under and make them play quickstart.We travel to tournaments constantly and EVERY parent i talk to hates the mandatory quickstart rule.

if your kid is elite then they should be playing 12, if not there is greenball U10 in my section and hopefully in yours

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

Your real intent is showing Protour.....elitist USTA thinking.....

hardly, my kid is not elite, yours will be, depriving (if she wants to) your daughter from playing tournaments unless she has perfect strokes is not also elitist......... but cruel

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

GA
USTA has stated they expect this issue to effect ~11,000 kids. They are OK with that. In other words our 8-9-10 year olds having to play 12s is just a consequnce of the new direction.

I suggest you get with the other top 8-9-10's and play Club style Tournaments. Non Sanctioned but competitive.

Pro T - Sorry for the long Post just wanted to give you some meat to chew

play non sanctioned club style tournaments oh no now you have done it, TCF will be all over you for ruining their bright tennis future if they do not have perfect textbook strokes

 

[ga tennis]

GA
USTA has stated they expect this issue to effect ~11,000 kids. They are OK with that. In other words our 8-9-10 year olds having to play 12s is just a consequnce of the new direction.

I suggest you get with the other top 8-9-10's and play Club style Tournaments. Non Sanctioned but competitive.

Pro T - Sorry for the long Post just wanted to give you some meat to chew

The kids that are forced up will be better for it in the long run if they dont get discouraged by the butt kickens they will get in the 12s.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

GA glad your girl had perfect textbook strokes before you entered her in a tournament or else TCF would have been all over you for destroying her tennis future

Yes and no. The bigger point is that parents do not want to drive to QS tournaments.....whether their kids have great strikes or not.

And yes, there is a huge problem in the juniors with kids rushing to play tournaments with lousy strokes. They are hard to fix should they some day want to take their tennis to a higher level.

2 different issues.

 

[seminoleG]

The problem i have with the U.S.T.A isnt quickstart.I think quickstart is great for teaching little kids when they first start but dont punish all the other kids that are 10 and under and make them play quickstart.We travel to tournaments constantly and EVERY parent i talk to hates the mandatory quickstart rule.

As the USTA states in my email response in which I applauded them for doing something to generate interest. They then seem to shape my questions as if I was against QS. That is the theme advocates need as a starting point. Mainly because after Green Ball what do they do for the 10-12yo? They will not talk about the fact that most kids leave/change activities ~ age 12. Just the time when they are going to try and transition from QS to Regulation Tennis.

They also say QS is not PUNISHMENT, it will help your 8-9-10yo develop their "Game". They believe all 10s need that development for proper play.

Having been to Macci, and IMG and Kozlov, and Extreme Tennis I beg to differ.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

hardly, my kid is not elite, yours will be, depriving (if she wants to) your daughter from playing tournaments unless she has perfect strokes is not also elitist......... but cruel

You throw around that word cruel a lot.

Somehow I can not find a way to relate cruel to whether or not a kid is driven 100 miles to a QS tournament.

But then again perhaps I was being cruel when I told her we could not have 4 bounce houses at her 6th birthday like the girl down the street did.

 

[seminoleG]

I am going to buy a Bag of Green Balls to hit with my daughter.

Mainly because I need to slow her ball down as I can't hit consistently with her.

Maybe I need QS. 45yo Male QS Tournaments hummm why not.

 

[ga tennis]

I am going to buy a Bag of Green Balls to hit with my daughter.

Mainly because I need to slow her ball down as I can't hit consistently with her.

Maybe I need QS. 45yo Male QS Tournaments hummm why not.

We do use the quickstart balls in one drill we do.We do a volley drill with both of us starting on the service line and moving foreward.This drill works great with the quickstart balls.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

I am going to buy a Bag of Green Balls to hit with my daughter.

Mainly because I need to slow her ball down as I can't hit consistently with her.

Maybe I need QS. 45yo Male QS Tournaments hummm why not.

Ha, I hear you. We use green balls all the time to rally. My coaching buddy told me the other day that he thinks we use them more for me than for my kid!

 

[BMC9670]

It seems we have at least somewhat of a consensus that Green Ball on a 78' court would be acceptable to most 10s, unless advanced enough and have the physical ability to play up. If this format is happening in Pro Tour's Section, then there is precedence for movement from Orange 60' for 10s.

Pro Tour, please keep us posted as these tournaments start being played. Some details on turnout, successes, and failures would arm us with info that we can use with our sections.

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

You throw around that word cruel a lot.

Somehow I can not find a way to relate cruel to whether or not a kid is driven 100 miles to a QS tournament.

But then again perhaps I was being cruel when I told her we could not have 4 bounce houses at her 6th birthday like the girl down the street did.

is that the same as uprooting a 5 year old from Sarasota to Boco so she can play tennis because of the weather

No I am only using your word ? I only learn from the best

It costs $28 and some gas money to enter a QS tournament where she can play at least three matches against different players, and you are equating that to 4 bounce houses? Your issues with rich folks is clouding your judgement whether to play her in tournaments or not. Macci charges $300 and you had no problem with that ?

Sorry, this is a huge issue for me. Setting kids up with bad form and rushing them into competition is cruel to me. These kids will be crushed one day when reality sets in. And its the adults who will have failed them. One year they will think they are the best kid players around, the next they will be destroyed.

I have seen it happen to 8s and 10s champs more times than I care to remember. They quit the game and never come back.

they quit the game and never comeback after they are overwhelmed by regulation

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

It seems we have at least somewhat of a consensus that Green Ball on a 78' court would be acceptable to most 10s, unless advanced enough and have the physical ability to play up. If this format is happening in Pro Tour's Section, then there is precedence for movement from Orange 60' for 10s.

Pro Tour, please keep us posted as these tournaments start being played. Some details on turnout, successes, and failures would arm us with info that we can use with our sections.

thank you, I will, I had to pry TCF teeth to have him agree with me on this one that was my idea from the start, seriously I doubt he knew anything about green ball more than a year ago, I did not

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

Yes and no. The bigger point is that parents do not want to drive to QS tournaments.....whether their kids have great strikes or not.

And yes, there is a huge problem in the juniors with kids rushing to play tournaments with lousy strokes. They are hard to fix should they some day want to take their tennis to a higher level.

2 different issues.

in due time there will be more local QS tournaments within 25 miles of each town, no need to drive over 100 miles, you are not helping the cause

Money is the first issue, in many cases ;-) not everyone can afford privates, you have the luxury of being a great coach, hope you can coach her and not pay someone else.

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

As the USTA states in my email response in which I applauded them for doing something to generate interest. They then seem to shape my questions as if I was against QS. That is the theme advocates need as a starting point. Mainly because after Green Ball what do they do for the 10-12yo? They will not talk about the fact that most kids leave/change activities ~ age 12. Just the time when they are going to try and transition from QS to Regulation Tennis.

They also say QS is not PUNISHMENT, it will help your 8-9-10yo develop their "Game". They believe all 10s need that development for proper play.

Having been to Macci, and IMG and Kozlov, and Extreme Tennis I beg to differ.

it depends on the kid and the situation, not every kid across this land can go nor afford Macci, IMG etc....

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

I am going to buy a Bag of Green Balls to hit with my daughter.

Mainly because I need to slow her ball down as I can't hit consistently with her.

Maybe I need QS. 45yo Male QS Tournaments hummm why not.

I have done that an I am a former 5.0 college player/coach

I also teach 13-14 year old girls who can not even hit two rallies back and forth with regulation, I had to use the red ball so they can rally and set up their shot. they were OK with it, then we went green and before they play HS tennis they will practice and play matches on regulation,

 

[seminoleG]

It seems we have at least somewhat of a consensus that Green Ball on a 78' court would be acceptable to most 10s, unless advanced enough and have the physical ability to play up. If this format is happening in Pro Tour's Section, then there is precedence for movement from Orange 60' for 10s.

Pro Tour, please keep us posted as these tournaments start being played. Some details on turnout, successes, and failures would arm us with info that we can use with our sections.

I owe the USTA a reply email. I will ask if consideration has been given to Green Ball for 2012 for 10s if they don't plan on keeping 10s regulation. Doesn't seem to be a concensus on what will drive the 2012 decision for Florida.

From the kids that come over during breaks from Europe they talk about training with Green Ball and do ~50% of the time. I did notice several of them rally very well 40-50 balls no mistakes. Very solid strokes.