USTA Tourny- out of division

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smiley74

Rookie
I was just checking the tournament schedule and it appears my division (3.0 ladies) never seems to go due to lack of entries (from checking 2007 results). So, my question is.....if I play at the 3.5 level (and get smoked) will I still be ranked in my 3.0 division??? Or, will I be ranked in the 3.5 division?

I self rated at 2.5 in Novemeber of last year but will self rate again this year for 3.0. BTW- I have only been playing 4 months (play 6 days a week for 2-4 hours a day with 2-3 lessons a week plus clinics and fun matches).

I start club ladder play this month; interclub travel play in February; and USTA League in May. My first tourny is in Feb. but, like I said, the 3.0 division NEVER fills. :-(
 
NOBODY knows!!! Come on, now!! I guess I'll have to call office and ask but I thought you USTA veterans would know, for sure!!!!
 
If you've only been playing for 4 months, then you will be lucky to win a game per set against a 3.5 player. Chances are you will be rated as a 3.0 if you play against 3.5 players. But I think its a waste of time to play a 3.5 tournament unless you are a strong 3.0, which is unlikely after 4 months of playing, unless you were already a skilled athlete.
 
Well, I was wondering about ranking. Would I still be ranked as a 3.0? Also, I feel you can learn a lot by losing to better players. Lastly, I fall in the skilled athlete category...... :-)
 
smiley74 said:
Well, I was wondering about ranking. Would I still be ranked as a 3.0? Also, I feel you can learn a lot by losing to better players. Lastly, I fall in the skilled athlete category...... :-)
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Why does it matter what you are ranked in? I honestly don't know the answer to that one, since until recently I didn't know they had NTRP rankings.
 
smiley74 said:
Because... I want to try to get a year end ranking in my Region!!
:shock:
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It works differently in different areas. Some sections don't even rank NTRP players- like mine. We have a grand prix race similar to the ATP race deal. In most cases 3.5 matches will not count towards 3.0 rankings. Email your section contact (there should be a whole list of emails on your section's USTA website) and ask them.
 
goober said:
It works differently in different areas. Some sections don't even rank NTRP players- like mine. We have a grand prix race similar to the ATP race deal. In most cases 3.5 matches will not count towards 3.0 rankings. Email your section contact (there should be a whole list of emails on your section's USTA website) and ask them.
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Yeah, that's what I was afraid of.....However, only like four 3.0 divisions even went out of the tons of tournys offered in my region. I wanted to use the tournys to get ready for USTA League so I figured if my division didn't go I could maybe play up for experience........I will call on Monday- was just hoping someone here would know to save me the work! :twisted:
 
Smiley, given your goals, I think it would be an excellent experience for you to play this tournament, even if it means playing up at 3.5. Contact the tournament director to make sure that you can do so. Will you win? Probably not. Will you learn a lot? Definitely.

As far as a ranking, like the others suggested, contact your district/section coordinator, they should be able to answer any questions you have.

Good luck!
 
well not even just in tournaments, but with my tennis center's challenge ladder, they merged the 3.0 & 3.5s so I'm forced to play 3.5 players. blah.
 
If your current self-rating is 2.5 and you haven't yet played a match, why not solve the problem by self-rating at 3.5?
 
Thanks, Topaz!!!

Cindy- no way!!! I think if I do that I'll have to play 3.5 or higher as I am not allowed to play lower. So, I better rate what I truly am (3.0). I *WISH* I was a 3.5! LOL.......Maybe someday! :-) I am hoping just to be competitive at 3.0!!!

I hit with a 3.5 this last week and...big difference! Huge serve, lots of topspin plus slice...which I have never encountered. Man, that's a cool shot!!! Gotta learn that one!!:shock:
 
smiley74 said:
Thanks, Topaz!!!

Cindy- no way!!! I think if I do that I'll have to play 3.5 or higher as I am not allowed to play lower. So, I better rate what I truly am (3.0). I *WISH* I was a 3.5! LOL.......Maybe someday! :-) I am hoping just to be competitive at 3.0!!!

I hit with a 3.5 this last week and...big difference! Huge serve, lots of topspin plus slice...which I have never encountered. Man, that's a cool shot!!! Gotta learn that one!!:shock:
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I would suggest playing up no matter what. You will learn so much, and better your game in the process. 3.0 is a rating that is often used as a beginner rating, not to be in for very long. I wouldn't worry about your ranking at that level. If you love to play, and it sounds like you play alot, you won't stay there very long anyway. Go ahead and aim for the 3.5 rating and ranking, don't bother with 3.0. The lack of players is because it is such a beginner rating, and either people play their way out of it, or don't. You seem like you won't be a 3.0 for long. Improve yourself, and aim for the 3.5! Good luck!
 
Around here, 3.0 is not a beginner rating for women. 2.5 is. If they abolished 2.5, there would be a fair number of women struggling to win a game at 3.0.

Smiley, have you played an actual singles match, start to finish? How did it go?

I mean, I ask because while playing up is OK and advisable for personal growth, I'm not sure it would be fair to your opponent to cut your teeth at the 3.5 level. I'm not sure at what point it becomes inconsiderate to play up for experience, but if you'd truly be playing your first real match then you might be reaching a bit too much. It's something to consider, that's all.

For instance, I'm a 3.5. I guess I could learn a lot by trotting out to a tournament and taking on a 4.0 woman. After all, I've played plenty of matches, enough to know that the basic strokes would hold up (I'd be able to get my serves in, for instance). I personally wouldn't do it because it would be inconsiderate to waste my opponent's time.
 
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Cindysphinx said:
Around here, 3.0 is not a beginner rating for women. 2.5 is. If they abolished 2.5, there would be a fair number of women struggling to win a game at 3.0.

Smiley, have you played an actual singles match, start to finish? How did it go?

I mean, I ask because while playing up is OK and advisable for personal growth, I'm not sure it would be fair to your opponent to cut your teeth at the 3.5 level. I'm not sure at what point it becomes inconsiderate to play up for experience, but if you'd truly be playing your first real match then you might be reaching a bit too much. It's something to consider, that's all.

For instance, I'm a 3.5. I guess I could learn a lot by trotting out to a tournament and taking on a 4.0 woman. After all, I've played plenty of matches, enough to know that the basic strokes would hold up (I'd be able to get my serves in, for instance). I personally wouldn't do it because it would be inconsiderate to waste my opponent's time.
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Yes, Cindy, now that you say that I realize that 2.5 is the beginner rating. I may not be the best person to respond then, because I am not either rating. But I still think she sounds like she is playing at a 3.0 rating, and is not able to find competition. How do you improve? I would still advocate playing up in matches. An easy match for a 3.5 wouldn't be looked at as a hinderance, but just an easy match. We all know the variance in ratings, and the varying levels of play at every level. Don't know the true answer here. It's tough to get started, but I think throwing yourself in there is the best answer if you truely are starting to play more serious tennis and trying to improve. And if it is backed up by lessons and out of match practice.

You are right though, the ability to play a match - to keep score and work through a match is necessary.
 
Cindysphinx said:
For instance, I'm a 3.5. I guess I could learn a lot by trotting out to a tournament and taking on a 4.0 woman. After all, I've played plenty of matches, enough to know that the basic strokes would hold up (I'd be able to get my serves in, for instance). I personally wouldn't do it because it would be inconsiderate to waste my opponent's time.
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See, and I totally disagree with this. If you are able to enter the tourny, then your opponent will just have to deal with it. We all get easy and hard opponents from time to time.

And you know what...there is no rule that a 3.5 can not take some games from a 4.0. It all depends on who is the 3.5, and who is the 4.0, as well as many other factors. Luck of the draw if you will.
 
smiley74 said:
I was just checking the tournament schedule and it appears my division (3.0 ladies) never seems to go due to lack of entries (from checking 2007 results). So, my question is.....if I play at the 3.5 level (and get smoked) will I still be ranked in my 3.0 division??? Or, will I be ranked in the 3.5 division?

I self rated at 2.5 in Novemeber of last year but will self rate again this year for 3.0. BTW- I have only been playing 4 months (play 6 days a week for 2-4 hours a day with 2-3 lessons a week plus clinics and fun matches).

I start club ladder play this month; interclub travel play in February; and USTA League in May. My first tourny is in Feb. but, like I said, the 3.0 division NEVER fills. :-(
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Generally rankings are in the division in which you play. However, I would not be concerned with that at this point. It sounds like you need matches and want to play, so just enter whatever is available, get the experience and have fun! The ranking will take care of itself. I would not worry about playing up either...just do it because you have to play matches under pressure in order to really improve. Don't worry about other people and their reasons for playing in or not playing tournaments or whether or not you are worthy competition. You need to play for yourself and for the experience. Just go for it! What do you have to lose?!
 
Topaz said:
See, and I totally disagree with this. If you are able to enter the tourny, then your opponent will just have to deal with it. We all get easy and hard opponents from time to time.

And you know what...there is no rule that a 3.5 can not take some games from a 4.0. It all depends on who is the 3.5, and who is the 4.0, as well as many other factors. Luck of the draw if you will.
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There are players for who playing too far "up" can be a waste of time. It is a little inconsiderate. Yes, the opponent has to deal with it, but you can always tell if someone is just having a bad day or just does not belong at that level. I would never be rude to someone while playing them, but if you can't hang at your own level, you shouldn't play up. A 3.5 who does pretty good at their own level and is looking for a challenge should play some 4.0. A 3.5 who cannot even win a match off of a 3.5 opponent who hasn't beaten anyone else, should not play 4.0.
Of course thats just my opinion. I also believe that screws up the rating system when people play "up" if they absolutely don't belong there, just as much as sandbaggers do.
 
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Thats what stops me from playing people. lol. I really just don't want to waste someone's time if i downright suck. But in this instance, I can't help it. I signed up for the 3.0 challenge ladder, and I guess for lack of competitors, it got merged with the 3.5 one. So now I have to play 3.5 people and if I get spanked, it's a waste of their time and I'd feel bad. It's almost as if I can't enjoy playing because I'm so worried that I'm going to not be any kind of challenge for my opponent. I guess i just have to say oh well and just go with it if I wanna play some tennis haha.
 
dgrave2 said:
Thats what stops me from playing people. lol. I really just don't want to waste someone's time if i downright suck. But in this instance, I can't help it. I signed up for the 3.0 challenge ladder, and I guess for lack of competitors, it got merged with the 3.5 one. So now I have to play 3.5 people and if I get spanked, it's a waste of their time and I'd feel bad. It's almost as if I can't enjoy playing because I'm so worried that I'm going to not be any kind of challenge for my opponent. I guess i just have to say oh well and just go with it if I wanna play some tennis haha.
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Thats out of your control, so just play. Its not like you had the option to play a 3.0 league, but then said "I think I'll play the 3.5 challenge ladder, even though I can't beat anyone in the 3.0 ladder". My pet peeve is really with people who have options at their level, but are at the very low end of their level, who say "I think I'll get better if I play up". If "up" IS your level (i.e., you don't do well in your own level), then you don't need to play up another.
 
Ace said:
Thats out of your control, so just play. Its not like you had the option to play a 3.0 league, but then said "I think I'll play the 3.5 challenge ladder, even though I can't beat anyone in the 3.0 ladder". My pet peeve is really with people who have options at their level, but are at the very low end of their level, who say "I think I'll get better if I play up". If "up" IS your level (i.e., you don't do well in your own level), then you don't need to play up another.
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I played a 3.0 tournament over the summer and my first two opponents won a combined total of 1 game off me. It was annoying because I feel like both matches were a complete waste of time for all of us. Neither of them could return my serve and both couldn't hit more than two balls in a row without an error. What bothered me more is that both opponents had the belief that they were 3.0s and that I wasn't, even though I lost in the semifinals. It wasn't their fault because they were probably 2.5 level, but there was no 2.5 draw so they had to play the 3.0 draw. I could've signed up for the 3.5 draw, but I figured I wouldn't have a chance in winning anyways. I assumed that the typical league singles players (top of the level) would be the ones in the tournament, not beginners as well.

So I know how it feels when you have limited opportunities to play tennis and get stuck playing people who don't belong in that level, although sometimes its their own fault and sometimes its the coordinator/director's fault for not doing a better job of getting the players in the right divisions.
 
Ace said:
Thats out of your control, so just play. Its not like you had the option to play a 3.0 league, but then said "I think I'll play the 3.5 challenge ladder, even though I can't beat anyone in the 3.0 ladder". My pet peeve is really with people who have options at their level, but are at the very low end of their level, who say "I think I'll get better if I play up". If "up" IS your level (i.e., you don't do well in your own level), then you don't need to play up another.
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Smiley and dgrave, I agree with Ace on this. If you really are in a location where there is not much tennis at the lower levels, then ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

The most important thing is that you know what you are doing out there when you show up at a tournament at a level where people are experienced/skilled. Get some matches in beforehand. Devote an entire lesson with your pro to playing a match, where the pro plays like a 3.5 would play. Get used to calling out "love-40" and still getting your serve to fall in the box. :)

But if this is a situation where you do have options to find 2.5-3.0 competition in league or by traveling a bit, then I would skip the tournaments and cut your teeth there.

That said, I have to admit to a personal bias. I don't enjoy getting spanked by someone way better than me and would rather play people at my level. I feel like there is more to be learned by surviving a challenge against a peer. Against someone at a higher level, I am under pressure constantly. I soon am not even hitting the ball the way I am supposed to be hitting it. Heck, if the person is that much better, I don't even get to hit the ball much. It's not fun for me, and it's not fun for them. So why do it?

I also have to admit that I don't play tournaments much and so don't know that "scene." I don't understand the appeal of having a ranking in a region that has hardly any players at the 3.0 level. It would feel illusory to me, you know? I wouldn't feel much pride telling people that I finished 2008 ranked No. 4 at 3.0 women's singles if I knew in the back of my mind that there were only six women who were ranked, you know?

So take my musings with a grain of salt, because I probably just don't get it.

Cindy -- who had a competitor apologize repeatedly for failing to win more than one game in the match in a 2.5 tournament
 
well i think this answers my question about my league choice. I had a guy email me to see if I wanted to play with a few guys to see if I would be a good fit with them for their league. (he is looking for some 3.0s) But then I find out that last season they made it to the state championships. I've only been playing 7 months, and I am barely a 3.0 haha. I have good forehands but I have a hard time getting my serve into that dang box. I don't want to be a part of a competitive team, I'd be so nervous and feel like I'd get told off if I lost. So I think i"m gonna tell this guy no lol.
 
Cindy- well, to each their own regarding your thoughts on playing up and being ranked. I won't question your personal motives nor should you question mine. It is not your place....However, thank you for sharing your thoughts even if I disagree with you! :twisted:

Anyway, I wish that there were some more tournaments at my level. I have always wanted to compete in tournaments-even from watching the pros as a kid!

I like the concept of tournaments over League play because, like Dgrave, if my ship is going to sink I want to be the only one on it! No sense, drowning my teammates as well! That's just added pressure.

My head tennis pro wants me to do the inter club thing and USTA to get experience as he knows I want to go the tournament route. Plus, tourny's are on the weekends so getting a babysitter is easier for me.

But, anyway.....good discussion from everyone regarding the pros and cons of playing out of your division.

I am leaning towards not caring if I am wasting someones time in a tournament! I figure I pay the same amount they do and am entitled to a match! When I get really good and a less experienced player plays me, I am going to make sure not to be a snob about it and maybe just work on things I need to work on in that match knowing I might not have to play my best. It would give me a chance to have a breather, work on some things, and be fresher for my next match.

We all have to start somewhere. It's not like there are tons of 3.0 tournaments and I am taking the position that I am too good for that division and am choosing to play up. If they have my division, I will eagerly play in it! However, if I sit on the sidelines until I am good enough to play in a division offered, I feel I would be missing out on a lot of experience. I don't mind losing to a better play and have taken a lot away from those matches (fun matches). I always try super hard every time and go for every ball. I think they appreciate my effort.

I wish USTA had more of an emphasis on beginners so we can compete at a fair level. Maybe it is just my region??? However, sometimes, it's us beginners who are the most passionate about the sport!! We buy the USTA membership, get the other tennis magazine subscriptions, and wear the "Tennis IS Life t-shirts"!!! They could show us a little love!!LOL
 
dgrave2 said:
well i think this answers my question about my league choice. I had a guy email me to see if I wanted to play with a few guys to see if I would be a good fit with them for their league. (he is looking for some 3.0s) But then I find out that last season they made it to the state championships. I've only been playing 7 months, and I am barely a 3.0 haha. I have good forehands but I have a hard time getting my serve into that dang box. I don't want to be a part of a competitive team, I'd be so nervous and feel like I'd get told off if I lost. So I think i"m gonna tell this guy no lol.
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Well, don't tell him no!!! He wants to play with you, maybe you will be a good fit. Let him decide. At least you have the offer. Go see what you can do!
Hey, they asked....so its not your fault if you aren't good enough.
 
In Texas section you get ranking points for whatever rating you play at regardless of what your rating is.

Example you are rated 3.0 and play 3.5 tournaments. Any points earned from match wins will only go towards your 3.5 ranking. You only get 3.0 ranking points for 3.0 matches.

Now this dosnt mean your rating will move up to 3.5 by any means. You will still be rated at 3.0 until at least the summer when early ratings come out. Then it is possible to be bumped up to 3.5 based on your spring league and tournament results. Although I think tournament results have little weight when figuring early ratings.
 
Ace said:
Well, don't tell him no!!! He wants to play with you, maybe you will be a good fit. Let him decide. At least you have the offer. Go see what you can do!
Hey, they asked....so its not your fault if you aren't good enough.
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I agree! Go hit with them and see how it goes.

Say you are not good enough. These players could help you get on a different team. It's never too early to start networking and meeting people.
 
Ace said:
Well, don't tell him no!!! He wants to play with you, maybe you will be a good fit. Let him decide. At least you have the offer. Go see what you can do!
Hey, they asked....so its not your fault if you aren't good enough.
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Cindysphinx said:
I agree! Go hit with them and see how it goes.

Say you are not good enough. These players could help you get on a different team. It's never too early to start networking and meeting people.
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I agree with both of you.. i guess maybe i lack a little self-confidence, especially when I can't get most serves in. (but this league wouldnt even be until the fall so maybe they could have the patience to work with me haha) I mean worst case is they say "I'm sorry, but we have found a better player to fit our team" and I move on. But I guess I got to start somewhere if I want to develop myself further.
 
Go for it Smiley! Just keep backing those matches up with lots of practice and lessons. Match play itself won't help you improve a lot, but can be a great gauge for seeing your improvement.
 
well just to let you guys know, I hit with that team. It went pretty bad hahaha. I mean not the WHOLE time, but like I said, my serves are horribleeee. lots and lots of double faults, I definitely need to work on my serves. They were all 3.5s that used LOTS of spin, which is something I wasn't used to. But it was a good experience, and towards the end I was starting to get a hang of it. I just desperately need to find a reliable serve!!
 
dgrave2 said:
well just to let you guys know, I hit with that team. It went pretty bad hahaha. I mean not the WHOLE time, but like I said, my serves are horribleeee. lots and lots of double faults, I definitely need to work on my serves. They were all 3.5s that used LOTS of spin, which is something I wasn't used to. But it was a good experience, and towards the end I was starting to get a hang of it. I just desperately need to find a reliable serve!!
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The ball hopper can be your friend. Mine is constantly in my car for the very reason you mention.
 
dgrave2 said:
well just to let you guys know, I hit with that team. It went pretty bad hahaha. I mean not the WHOLE time, but like I said, my serves are horribleeee. lots and lots of double faults, I definitely need to work on my serves. They were all 3.5s that used LOTS of spin, which is something I wasn't used to. But it was a good experience, and towards the end I was starting to get a hang of it. I just desperately need to find a reliable serve!!
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Yeah!! Well, at least you showed up and tried!!! You get an A++++++ for effort! Half the battle is just showing up...or so they say!! LOL

Good for you!!:cool:
 
Mine is in my car. I practiced serves today, in fact. Awfully nice weather for January.

Dgrave, I feel your pain. I tried out for a team once. It was a looooooooooong 2 hours, what with pretty much every error coming off of my racket. That was 2006, and I didn't make the team of course.

In 2007, that captain saw me play a league match against some of her friends. She invited me to be on her mixed team, but I declined for many reasons.

So it is possible to use these experiences to motivate yourself to take it to the next level. If your serve is all that's holding you back, you should be able to fix things in no time.

Good going!!
 
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