USTA why not take up Mr. Bryan and Collette's Challenge? 100 regulation vs 100 10U

[seminoleG]

Collette wrote:

"But if playing up isn’t truly viable, there’s always an alternative. Bryan mentions a new circuit for 10-and-under players with full courts and regulation balls, which, as a true believer in competition, I applaud. There is also the Little Mo circuit, which even has an 11-and-under division, and it offers the standard equipment and courts.

If I were the USTA, I would take Bryan up on his bet of 100 kids with vs. 100 kids without 10-and-under. It’s an experiment worth doing if he’s serious."

Ok so lets push for this:

Agree or Disagree with Mr. Bryan or Mr. McEnroe or whomever's opinion
on 10U Play and Stay. PUT YOUR PERSONAL THOUGHTS ASIDE.

Put up or shut up, I will add my daughter to a list of 100 kids that never played 10U to play kids that did.

USTA - set up a series of closed events for 12s by Region and lets see the results. I WILL PAY ALL my daughters travel.

Possible Results:
1- 10U kids prevail thus VALIDATING 10U
2- Regulation kids prevail thus VALIDATING seperate track for Hi-Perfomance
3- 50/50 Validates many ways to skin this Junior Tennis thing

USTA gets a win-win with 2 of 3 results

So USTA lets see what happens take todays 10Us and let them play

 

[arche3]

I don't think USTA will ever do this. The chance their system showing any flaw is simply not the way they think imo.

 

[seminoleG]

I don't think USTA will ever do this. The chance their system showing any flaw is simply not the way they think imo.

Do you think it is fair corollary?

Bottomline this debate is old/tired/ and full of people protecting their own interest on both sides.

I on the other hand have a living and breathing Lab, and I see her and others play everyday, so lets take them and test this theory out.

No harm, and the experts can decide.

I think it would be great 4 years from now if you had an OB finalist, or EH finalist that came thru the Play and Stay initiative! Worth putting all the chips on the table.

 

[arche3]

Do you think it is fair corollary?

Bottomline this debate is old/tired/ and full of people protecting their own interest on both sides.

I on the other hand have a living and breathing Lab, and I see her and others play everyday, so lets take them and test this theory out.

No harm, and the experts can decide.

I think it would be great 4 years from now if you had an OB finalist, or EH finalist that came thru the Play and Stay initiative! Worth putting all the chips on the table.

I am not sure if the comparison is fair even. Hard to say. I know for my son he didn't want to play QS. But a couple of his friends did. There was a summer clinic they did it at. They did a couple QS tourneys as well and stopped. they liked the real balls and courts better as that is what they were used to. So if you start on QS it is probably easier. But going back and forth is hard from what I saw.

 

[SStrikerR]

Yeah no, it wouldn't work. Because no matter what court style they play on (QS or not) the side that hasn't played on the other style of court will be at a disadvantage. If anything, have the kids play in 5-6 years, and see which ones are better overall at that point. But they'd have to keep those kids around.

 

[seminoleG]

Yeah no, it wouldn't work. Because no matter what court style they play on (QS or not) the side that hasn't played on the other style of court will be at a disadvantage. If anything, have the kids play in 5-6 years, and see which ones are better overall at that point. But they'd have to keep those kids around.

I wasn't clear they would play Regulation 12s. For those that have started 10U or QS format they will get 2+ years and would have graduated to regulation Tennis.

It will also let you compare those that were playing Regulation 10s before the change in format.

 

[BMC9670]

I am not sure if the comparison is fair even. Hard to say. I know for my son he didn't want to play QS. But a couple of his friends did. There was a summer clinic they did it at. They did a couple QS tourneys as well and stopped. they liked the real balls and courts better as that is what they were used to. So if you start on QS it is probably easier. But going back and forth is hard from what I saw.

This was true of my son as well - had a hard time going back.

For this experiment to work, each side would have to be pure - QS kids fully trained through that system since entry and "graduated to 12U regulation for a certain length of time for this competition to take place. The regular kids would have not used any colored balls or reduced courts. I think it would be hard to find pure groups in this way.

 

[MarTennis]

Collette and Wayne Bryan need to stay in their lane.

Collette wrote:

"But if playing up isn’t truly viable, there’s always an alternative. Bryan mentions a new circuit for 10-and-under players with full courts and regulation balls, which, as a true believer in competition, I applaud. There is also the Little Mo circuit, which even has an 11-and-under division, and it offers the standard equipment and courts.

If I were the USTA, I would take Bryan up on his bet of 100 kids with vs. 100 kids without 10-and-under. It’s an experiment worth doing if he’s serious."

Ok so lets push for this:

Agree or Disagree with Mr. Bryan or Mr. McEnroe or whomever's opinion
on 10U Play and Stay. PUT YOUR PERSONAL THOUGHTS ASIDE.

Put up or shut up, I will add my daughter to a list of 100 kids that never played 10U to play kids that did.

USTA - set up a series of closed events for 12s by Region and lets see the results. I WILL PAY ALL my daughters travel.

Possible Results:
1- 10U kids prevail thus VALIDATING 10U
2- Regulation kids prevail thus VALIDATING seperate track for Hi-Perfomance
3- 50/50 Validates many ways to skin this Junior Tennis thing

USTA gets a win-win with 2 of 3 results

So USTA lets see what happens take todays 10Us and let them play

If you really don't like 10 and under tennis USTA style you need to stay in your lane or start a private business or special purpose organization to acheive YOUR objective. The fact is that scores of American tennis people have worked in the game for decades and produced tennis players that are simply of a lower class than the rest of the world at this point. USTA ain't perfect and neither is United States professional tennis instruction in its myriad of forms. Regardless of affiliation.

Also, the fact is that people who think they know tennis are going to do what they want in their own interest. If you are a unafffiated "child" who just likes whacking a ball, 'cause it is different than baseball and basketball, 10andunder tennis is the right thing. I advocate intervention when non affilated kids, try tennis and show talent and background shows enough familial and emotional support. The goal should be more better american tennis. You wanna test teaching principles? Take 100 45 year old americans and put em in a match against 100 international 45 years olds where right sized tennis was the basis of learning. The Americans get stomped. Slow or fast hard court. Responses? Bring it on.

 

[seminoleG]

If you really don't like 10 and under tennis USTA style you need to stay in your lane or start a private business or special purpose organization to acheive YOUR objective. The fact is that scores of American tennis people have worked in the game for decades and produced tennis players that are simply of a lower class than the rest of the world at this point. USTA ain't perfect and neither is United States professional tennis instruction in its myriad of forms. Regardless of affiliation.

Also, the fact is that people who think they know tennis are going to do what they want in their own interest. If you are a unafffiated "child" who just likes whacking a ball, 'cause it is different than baseball and basketball, 10andunder tennis is the right thing. I advocate intervention when non affilated kids, try tennis and show talent and background shows enough familial and emotional support. The goal should be more better american tennis. You wanna test teaching principles? Take 100 45 year old americans and put em in a match against 100 international 45 years olds where right sized tennis was the basis of learning. The Americans get stomped. Slow or fast hard court. Responses? Bring it on.

My post referenced the debate between TENNIS people and a tongue n cheek solution that wouldn't prove anything. My personal view means little as a consumer I have choices and as you stated can excercise them. 10U has proven to be a economic solution in the short term, that's it.

I believe long term it will prove to be just the opposite, for as many who see 10U as a way to "real" tennis more will reject the actual work and COST to play "real" tennis.

So in 3,5,xx years 10U as a mandate will still be around and fewer centers will have a program just offer training aids.

As the Grants dry up, interest will also.

 

[MarTennis]

Count one on the 10 and under side.

Collette wrote:

"But if playing up isn’t truly viable, there’s always an alternative. Bryan mentions a new circuit for 10-and-under players with full courts and regulation balls, which, as a true believer in competition, I applaud. There is also the Little Mo circuit, which even has an 11-and-under division, and it offers the standard equipment and courts.

If I were the USTA, I would take Bryan up on his bet of 100 kids with vs. 100 kids without 10-and-under. It’s an experiment worth doing if he’s serious."

Ok so lets push for this:

Agree or Disagree with Mr. Bryan or Mr. McEnroe or whomever's opinion
on 10U Play and Stay. PUT YOUR PERSONAL THOUGHTS ASIDE.

Put up or shut up, I will add my daughter to a list of 100 kids that never played 10U to play kids that did.

USTA - set up a series of closed events for 12s by Region and lets see the results. I WILL PAY ALL my daughters travel.

Possible Results:
1- 10U kids prevail thus VALIDATING 10U
2- Regulation kids prevail thus VALIDATING seperate track for Hi-Perfomance
3- 50/50 Validates many ways to skin this Junior Tennis thing

USTA gets a win-win with 2 of 3 results

So USTA lets see what happens take todays 10Us and let them play

Proud to say I started my soon to be 10 year old on mini tennis/ 10 and under several years ago and stuck to it so far as to say he play 3 green dot events from late last year to date. Admittedly he is ready for 12 opens, but he is ready because I enforced the right sized tennis principle and protocols throughout his development thus far. He definitely attained the developmental principles I value toward his world class junior development. He'll take any test any of your charges have to dish out.

 

[MarTennis]

Why so hard to play with different balls?

This was true of my son as well - had a hard time going back.

For this experiment to work, each side would have to be pure - QS kids fully trained through that system since entry and "graduated to 12U regulation for a certain length of time for this competition to take place. The regular kids would have not used any colored balls or reduced courts. I think it would be hard to find pure groups in this way.

I have heard this refrain from parents over and over. The WSJ article was embarrassing with the quotes. IMHO, a tennis player should be able to control and play with any ball and to complain about it is a sign in and of itself and not a good one.

 

[gameboy]

I am not sure what the challenge proves.

The whole point of QS is not to produce "better" players per se, but more players by making it easier for kids to pick up the sport.

The test will be how many kids are playing tennis in 10 years compared to today, not who can beat who.

 

[MarTennis]

An empirical answer is coming soon enough.

My post referenced the debate between TENNIS people and a tongue n cheek solution that wouldn't prove anything. My personal view means little as a consumer I have choices and as you stated can excercise them. 10U has proven to be a economic solution in the short term, that's it.

I believe long term it will prove to be just the opposite, for as many who see 10U as a way to "real" tennis more will reject the actual work and COST to play "real" tennis.

So in 3,5,xx years 10U as a mandate will still be around and fewer centers will have a program just offer training aids.

As the Grants dry up, interest will also.

My prediction is bumps in the road with a successful outcome for 10 and under tennis. Many millions of kids who would not get a halfway decent start prior to this change, now will. More top 100 players will emerge 10 to 15 years from now. Moreover, the big step will be when and if USTA is able to incorporate more parent training as part of 10 and under initiative.

 

[MarTennis]

Big disagree

I am not sure what the challenge proves.

The whole point of QS is not to produce "better" players per se, but more players by making it easier for kids to pick up the sport.

The test will be how many kids are playing tennis in 10 years compared to today, not who can beat who.

The objective of 10 and under is greater numbers of better tennis players. Period. Not more people playing, not grand slam champs. More better tennis players.

 

[seminoleG]

The objective of 10 and under is greater numbers of better tennis players. Period. Not more people playing, not grand slam champs. More better tennis players.

First 10U was a path to the next great champion, then a method to allow coaches to train young kids, next a way to get kids doing something, now a way to get more kids playing the sport.

WHAT IS IT?

The fact the message is not uniform and keeps changing says a lot?

 

[seminoleG]

I have heard this refrain from parents over and over. The WSJ article was embarrassing with the quotes. IMHO, a tennis player should be able to control and play with any ball and to complain about it is a sign in and of itself and not a good one.

Not true. My kid and other top kids get lazy at slow moving Green Ball. They reach and slice and drop shot. She wins but it's horrible.

They've been trained at higher speed and sharper angles.

Just like the opposite take a 10U Greenball player and put them on court Yellow with my daughter she will kill them. Now they did this and it was something to see.

 

[seminoleG]

Proud to say I started my soon to be 10 year old on mini tennis/ 10 and under several years ago and stuck to it so far as to say he play 3 green dot events from late last year to date. Admittedly he is ready for 12 opens, but he is ready because I enforced the right sized tennis principle and protocols throughout his development thus far. He definitely attained the developmental principles I value toward his world class junior development. He'll take any test any of your charges have to dish out.

Well I'm proud to say my daughter was hand fed yellow balls since 6. @ 9 she's won several rounds Level 5, Super Series, and Locals in 12s. She's on Babolat Comp team and has National points in 12s. All this in what I've been told is a tough section. Shes been to the USTA and I expect will get WCs next year for some 12s events.

Several other 9yo girls are as good or better none of which used mini tennis. Even a 7 year old that needs a little more size and she's gonna kill.

All this = SO WHAT? They are 8,9,10

Their coaches know how to coach with regulation equipment. It's not a lost art, just lost amongst some.

Go to Macci, Salomon, IMG, Kozlov, Bill Adams, Extreme you name it with a Top 25 kid and for every Greenball you see I'll give you $100!

Yes we have played the Mini kids, last year Team Tennis 12s. Those parents of those kids that trained in the system ASKED me how she was trained. At a 10U event in Key Biscayne they let them play in the stadium and at least 15 parents asked was she a quick start kid. (Quick Start old term)

Seeing Mini kids play regulation yellow was a joke. Not bad technique it was the speed and the bounce. So yes if she hit a flat slow ball they could play, but that rarely happened.

So she has and I'd expect her to continue to beat up on mini Tennis kids, slices, drop shots, angles with a 2 year head start playing regulation yellow from what I've seen wont even be close.

If you and your kid are in SoFla we can hit anytime.

 

[gameboy]

The objective of 10 and under is greater numbers of better tennis players. Period. Not more people playing, not grand slam champs. More better tennis players.

Every literature and information I have seen coming out from USTA has been about getting more kids involved and growing the game. They want more people to play tennis, which really should be the #1 goal that USTA has.

You will get more, better tennis players naturally if there are more people playing tennis.

Designing a U10 kids program to identify future Wimbledon champs of even just future pro/college players seems like terrible waste of time and money.

 

[MarTennis]

It is a reason to fly out. We are in NorCal.

Well I'm proud to say my daughter was hand fed yellow balls since 6. @ 9 she's won several rounds Level 5, Super Series, and Locals in 12s. She's on Babolat Comp team and has National points in 12s. All this in what I've been told is a tough section. Shes been to the USTA and I expect will get WCs next year for some 12s events.

Several other 9yo girls are as good or better none of which used mini tennis. Even a 7 year old that needs a little more size and she's gonna kill.

All this = SO WHAT? They are 8,9,10

Their coaches know how to coach with regulation equipment. It's not a lost art, just lost amongst some.

Go to Macci, Salomon, IMG, Kozlov, Bill Adams, Extreme you name it with a Top 25 kid and for every Greenball you see I'll give you $100!

Yes we have played the Mini kids, last year Team Tennis 12s. Those parents of those kids that trained in the system ASKED me how she was trained. At a 10U event in Key Biscayne they let them play in the stadium and at least 15 parents asked was she a quick start kid. (Quick Start old term)

Seeing Mini kids play regulation yellow was a joke. Not bad technique it was the speed and the bounce. So yes if she hit a flat slow ball they could play, but that rarely happened.

So she has and I'd expect her to continue to beat up on mini Tennis kids, slices, drop shots, angles with a 2 year head start playing regulation yellow from what I've seen wont even be close.

If you and your kid are in SoFla we can hit anytime.

Well it sounds like everything is in full flight. Still seasoning my young charge, but definitely looking to allow him an opportunity play all comers as the development process unfolds.

 

[MarTennis]

What is not true?

Not true. My kid and other top kids get lazy at slow moving Green Ball. They reach and slice and drop shot. She wins but it's horrible.

They've been trained at higher speed and sharper angles.

Just like the opposite take a 10U Greenball player and put them on court Yellow with my daughter she will kill them. Now they did this and it was something to see.

...that a tennis player should be able to control and play with any ball?

 

[widmerpool]

Yeah, let's have a p-i-ssing match between old men settled by 11 year-olds.

 

[jht32]

Yeah, let's have a p-i-ssing match between old men settled by 11 year-olds.

My vote for post of the year!

 

[emarkhans]

I'm confused by this whole thing because my son's 7 and is in a class at Sportime in NY (McEnroe) and they haven't hit a Quick Start ball the whole time and he hits well.

They have a Quick Start class for 5s and 6s but other than that, I haven't seen a QS ball in the whole place.

Once I get him going in tournaments, he's going to hit red balls, yet hit yellows in the class. Seems a little bizarre.

 

[MarTennis]

Got my vote too...

My vote for post of the year!

and I'm part of the pissy tandem.