UTR Admits Change In Algorithm—Severely Hampers Ability To Raise Rating

#51
Upsets of the 2+ level are very rare. However, more common (tho still a small %) are 3 setters where the higher player wins with a 2.0 difference. I have seen several of those reviewing ITA summer circuit results. Most of those are players with UTR under 10, but a 12.59 barely beat a 10.51. That's big but it wont count. However, even if the 2+ wins by lower level players do count, what is the weight? Even matches 1.0-1.99 apart carry less weight, than matches 1.0 UTR or less apart. Would be helpful to know the weight. At these ITA summer circuits, there are some big gaps. If a match only counts .25 or .5 of a 1.0 gap match, players should know so they can choose to play tournaments where they will get the maximum credit for their matches. Why play 5 matches if players will only get credit for 2 which has happened in some past ITA summer circuit matches.
 
#52
Upsets of the 2+ level are very rare. However, more common (tho still a small %) are 3 setters where the higher player wins with a 2.0 difference. I have seen several of those reviewing ITA summer circuit results. Most of those are players with UTR under 10, but a 12.59 barely beat a 10.51. That's big but it wont count. However, even if the 2+ wins by lower level players do count, what is the weight? Even matches 1.0-1.99 apart carry less weight, than matches 1.0 UTR or less apart. Would be helpful to know the weight. At these ITA summer circuits, there are some big gaps. If a match only counts .25 or .5 of a 1.0 gap match, players should know so they can choose to play tournaments where they will get the maximum credit for their matches. Why play 5 matches if players will only get credit for 2 which has happened in some past ITA summer circuit matches.
Opted for money tourney's because of these gaps. The utr differences are much tighter and a bit higher this year, especially in Southern California.
 
#54
UTR just destroyed their own system.
Elaborate-which recent changes are destroying uTR-counting wins by lower player even if 2.0+ diff, not counting close matches that are 2.01+ apart, or hosting "level-based tourneys" with too large of gap between opponents, or some other flaw? All of those have been discussed on thread. UTR is just a tool-sometimes it is portrayed as a scalpel precisely determining ratings when it really may be a butter knife. UTR was created for people to find competitive matches and it does an excellent job for that but now it is used for predicting wins and best fit for colleges, and its accuracy is somewhat lower as it was not designed for those uses.
 
#55
Upsets of the 2+ level are very rare. However, more common (tho still a small %) are 3 setters where the higher player wins with a 2.0 difference. I have seen several of those reviewing ITA summer circuit results. Most of those are players with UTR under 10, but a 12.59 barely beat a 10.51. That's big but it wont count. However, even if the 2+ wins by lower level players do count, what is the weight? Even matches 1.0-1.99 apart carry less weight, than matches 1.0 UTR or less apart. Would be helpful to know the weight. At these ITA summer circuits, there are some big gaps. If a match only counts .25 or .5 of a 1.0 gap match, players should know so they can choose to play tournaments where they will get the maximum credit for their matches. Why play 5 matches if players will only get credit for 2 which has happened in some past ITA summer circuit matches.
That's just completely absurd. Going by what you said, if the top seed ATP/WTA player loses in the first round to a qualifier at a GS event, the match should not count? If that's the case, why even bothers to compete at all?
 
#56
That's just completely absurd. Going by what you said, if the top seed ATP/WTA player loses in the first round to a qualifier at a GS event, the match should not count? If that's the case, why even bothers to compete at all?
In that situation the match would count for ATP/WTA points even if it didnt count for UTR. However looking at UTR for the top pro men or women, none of the top 3 played any player ranked more than 1.6 below them in the last 12 months. Even the UTR 16s' lowest opponents were mid to high 14s. On the women's side, UTR is really tight with most matches within .5 UTR and very few with a 1.0 gap between opponents for the top ladies even in early rounds. Since Qualifiers have to win 3-4 matches before the MD, the qualifiers are very talented so within 1-1.5 or less UTR of top players. So your hypothetical situation is not going to happen in GS. In a Future Quali maybe-have seen a Future quali with UTR from 8-14 but the 8 lost 0,1. You definitely could see the situation in Men's opens, ITA summer circuits, etc.
 
#57
I thought only including the result if it was close made a lot of sense. I can see how factoring a 6-0 6-1 loss to a much higher rated opponent might incorrectly bump the losing player up too much. If the loss is 6-4, 6-3, though, that indicates something about the abilities of the players.
They could "level' ratings with a handicap in those instances. SImple subroutine could clean that up and have matches count at least.
 
#58
What happens if a player loses their rating by not having played any matches eligible for UTR in the last 12 months?
I noticed a bunch of players in this situation have a 'UR' instead of a UTR number.
When they play their next eligible UTR match, would the system give them a new rating based on how close was the match with their opponent?
 
#59
i think in that case the system starts over completely once they start playing again. it would look at the results that come in and depending on their results against reliably-rated players start to come up with a projected rating, and as some consistency is shown, then the rating would eventually become reliable again.
 
#60
That's just completely absurd. Going by what you said, if the top seed ATP/WTA player loses in the first round to a qualifier at a GS event, the match should not count? If that's the case, why even bothers to compete at all?
Ehhh, top 200-300 are really tight with each other in UTR.

Djokovic is a 16.13. The 300th ranked player in the world, Benjamin Hassan, is a 14.57. Not even a 2+ difference but they’re clearly worlds apart in their ATP rankings.

Point is upsets do happen. A 14.3 could beat a Top 50 ATP player with a 15.7, and it would count because it’s, again, not a 2+ difference.

UTR excels in the top of the men’s/women’s games, where everyone is really close to each other. Djokovic beating a world no. 83 in the first round of a tournament 6-3 6-3 may look routine, and it is, for them. That no. 83, while he probably won’t, can upset Djokovic if certain things go his way on that day, because his utr means he can have a competitive match with him.
 
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