V14 the end of pro staff?

PistolPete23

Hall of Fame
I’ve tried so many Pro Staffs recently, from the classics to more recent iterations. They have a raw and stiff feel that’s made for attacking tennis, not for long baseline rallies. Their heritage will keep the line alive, but I agree with other posters that Wilson needs to redefine what a Pro Staff should be for the modern game.
 

landcookie

Semi-Pro
I agree stiffness and beam thickness have increased for increased stability, but I think average twistweights today are as high as, if not higher than, ever.

Pro staff 97 v14 and prostaff x are >15; whereas all other tweener frames are sub 15, some are closer to 14.

The outlier is the latest PA and PD which is interesting. The PAVS however has a lower TW.
 

tele

Hall of Fame

Pro staff 97 v14 and prostaff x are >15; whereas all other tweener frames are sub 15, some are closer to 14.

The outlier is the latest PA and PD which is interesting. The PAVS however has a lower TW.
I really don't think higher twistweight is associated with classic racquets. Previous pro staff 97s had lighter twistweights than the current model, and if you go back further to the 6.1 95, which is admittedly a 95, twistweight was far lower. Many of the Dunlop 300 series racquets (98 inches) also had very low twistweights. Looking at the Ezone 98, the twistweight has gone up since the DR 98, which was in the 13s, but I think most would say the newer one is more "modern". The Tecnifibre Tfigght ISO 305 racquets also have higher (~15) twistweights.

Twistweight is, however, as you mentioned, associated with clunkiness.
 

Smecz

Professional
It seems that the serve potential is the most important, simply if you do research on the ease of obtaining a fast serve, the wilson pro staff v14 is not really in the top...

None of the pros will take a racket that does not have power on the serve, if it were not for the blade rackets, Wilson would have a problem staying on the market...
 

landcookie

Semi-Pro
I really don't think higher twistweight is associated with classic racquets. Previous pro staff 97s had lighter twistweights than the current model, and if you go back further to the 6.1 95, which is admittedly a 95, twistweight was far lower. Many of the Dunlop 300 series racquets (98 inches) also had very low twistweights. Looking at the Ezone 98, the twistweight has gone up since the DR 98, which was in the 13s, but I think most would say the newer one is more "modern". The Tecnifibre Tfigght ISO 305 racquets also have higher (~15) twistweights.

Twistweight is, however, as you mentioned, associated with clunkiness.
I think 14-15 TW is about the sweet spot for modern racquets. Admittedly there was a phase (in the DR era) where brands were going the other extreme of super light, stiff racquets with low TW, resulting in horrendous products. Over the last few years things have came back to equilibrium. Personally, I don’t see TW going up any higher.
 

tele

Hall of Fame
I think 14-15 TW is about the sweet spot for modern racquets. Admittedly there was a phase (in the DR era) where brands were going the other extreme of super light, stiff racquets with low TW, resulting in horrendous products. Over the last few years things have came back to equilibrium. Personally, I don’t see TW going up any higher.
Yes, I think most modern racquets are in the 14-15 range, at least according to the TW database, and I also think that they probably won't get much higher, as that results in a pretty sluggish frame. My point was just that twistweights seemed to be lower, not higher, in the past. Otherwise, sounds like we pretty much agree.
 

chizzle

Rookie
Don’t disagree that strings play a big part.

I do think we are glancing over the topic here though which is the racquets inherent DNA needing a relook to adapt to how tennis is being played now if Wilson wants to see an uptick in Prostaff usage.

Box beam, highish twistweight, oval head, constant thinish beam, none of these are “modern” per se.

No point having pin point control when you cant hit big enough consistently to keep the other person from dictating.
Great point. This is why I think the X and 100 are doing better than most think (perhaps) - but they don't have the love / history / pedigree of the 97.

My biggest aha moments have come with elements. I play well with a pure drive when it's cool/cold out. But when I got to Sacramento (98*) and played with it, I couldn't keep the ball in play and had the worst results I can remember (since before I was a decent singles player). I got "benched" in match 3 (deservedly). Meanwhile,I left my PSXs at home. Literally found and bought one that day (of benching) - team made the Semis as a wildcard. Other singles guy couldn't play. Took a minute to readjust (lost the first set), but found my confidence to hit the ball from there and won a big match (we lost a close team match).

Very specific example, and all that to say, there are a lot of factors even beyond strings. Lesson learned. Feels like I'm playing my best ever now. Will that stop me from buying the new TW Prestige Pro - haha probably not!
 

chizzle

Rookie
It seems that the serve potential is the most important, simply if you do research on the ease of obtaining a fast serve, the wilson pro staff v14 is not really in the top...

None of the pros will take a racket that does not have power on the serve, if it were not for the blade rackets, Wilson would have a problem staying on the market...
Interesting. The stock PS97 serves bigger than the stock Blade (at least the 16x19) IMO.

Then again it could be semantics / factors. Maybe I serve bigger with the PS bc I'm more confident in the control to go after (eg second serves)?

Ofc no pros are playing stock.
 

artdeco

Semi-Pro
This thread is all over the place.
How is PS97 not modern? Wide head-shape, open 16x19 pattern, reasonably stiff. Higher twist-weight is a feature of most modern racquets.
You can't play baseline rallies with a stiff racquet??? What??
If you think beam profile is affecting the power of your shots that much then the problem is probably your technique.
 

landcookie

Semi-Pro
This thread is all over the place.
How is PS97 not modern? Wide head-shape, open 16x19 pattern, reasonably stiff. Higher twist-weight is a feature of most modern racquets.
You can't play baseline rallies with a stiff racquet??? What??
If you think beam profile is affecting the power of your shots that much then the problem is probably your technique.
Maybe that’s the new PS 97 tag phrase: Be better.
 

PistolPete23

Hall of Fame
I hated the feel and it felt like an early 90’s widebody player’s racket and I hated widebody rackets back in the day.

My dad had a widebody racquet that I used to love playing with, more than my own racquet. Head Ventoris 660. I’ve often wondered if I would still like it if I tried it today.
 

Smecz

Professional
Interesting. The stock PS97 serves bigger than the stock Blade (at least the 16x19) IMO.

Then again it could be semantics / factors. Maybe I serve bigger with the PS bc I'm more confident in the control to go after (eg second serves)?

Ofc no pros are playing stock.
Sam Groth or Mpetshi Perricard use babolat racquet..Why?!

Because these racquet have good swing and rotation to serve.!!

Then there are yonex and tecnifibre and head,dunlop.

Wilson pro staff v14 won't have as good a swing as Babolat or Yonex for example...

This racket will slow down the serve swing of Mpetshi or Groth.!!!
 

tele

Hall of Fame
Sam Groth or Mpetshi Perricard use babolat racquet..Why?!

Because these racquet have good swing and rotation to serve.!!

Then there are yonex and tecnifibre and head,dunlop.

Wilson pro staff v14 won't have as good a swing as Babolat or Yonex for example...

This racket will slow down the serve swing of Mpetshi or Groth.!!!
Reilly Opelka does okay with his pro staff, though it is not a v14–it is an even heavier model.
 

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
My dad had a widebody racquet that I used to love playing with, more than my own racquet. Head Ventoris 660. I’ve often wondered if I would still like it if I tried it today.
That was one of the softer widebody racket. You just might like it today. You can find them on the bay
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
Sam Groth or Mpetshi Perricard use babolat racquet..Why?!

Because these racquet have good swing and rotation to serve.!!

Then there are yonex and tecnifibre and head,dunlop.

Wilson pro staff v14 won't have as good a swing as Babolat or Yonex for example...

This racket will slow down the serve swing of Mpetshi or Groth.!!!

Damn and here I was thinking it was because he was 6'8" with supernatural coordination and the arm of a god.

Guess I'm gonna go buy a new racquet!

J
 

ProdigyEng

New User
I saw the V14s on sale too, and it got me wondering if they’re clearing them out for good. I’ve always liked the Pro Staff line, so it would be a bummer if they were phased out. I haven’t heard anything solid about a V15 yet, but I’d keep an eye on Wilson’s updates.
 

Smecz

Professional
Reilly Opelka does okay with his pro staff, though it is not a v14–it is an even heavier model.
Yeah,sure, I forget about him, he is tall,of course...

But is it easier to serve with a racket that has power and access to spin?! or not?!

Pro Staffs have no power or rotation, although it used to be worse (pro staff 85,90)...
 

chizzle

Rookie
If I could ...

-serve with the Pro Staff
-Defend with the Babalot
-Volley with the Prestige
-hit approaches with a Yonex
and
-hit overheads with a ... pro staff.

I'd be golden.
 

Smecz

Professional
Damn and here I was thinking it was because he was 6'8" with supernatural coordination and the arm of a god.

Guess I'm gonna go buy a new racquet!

J
Interesting approach

Height and coordination are one thing, but choosing the right racket to use your potential to the maximum is another...

Pro staff is a more technical and control serve than a strong and top spin, yes you can hit hard or spin, but the racket is not like that...
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
Interesting approach

Height and coordination are one thing, but choosing the right racket to use your potential to the maximum is another...

Pro staff is a more technical and control serve than a strong and top spin, yes you can hit hard or spin, but the racket is not like that...
Sorry I actually play tennis.

J
 

Unforgiven79

Semi-Pro
Don't forget that ProStaff is one of Wilson's most known brands, also present in golf etc
Exactly. Worst case IMHO is that Wilson will mess with its specs (remove PWS/make it lighter/make it more head-heavy/...) and then release it as "the ProStaff for the Next Gen of players" of some sort.

P.S.: I remember users back already in 2014 complaining that the 97sq'' versions were not true ProStaff's.
 

jsm1373

Rookie
P.S.: I remember users back already in 2014 complaining that the 97sq'' versions were not true ProStaff's.

To be honest I still feel that way... To me the PS85 is the *true* ProStaff - and the 6.1 95 is the most modern version that still has that intangible "ProStaffness". The PS97 is a great frame (I played the RF97 for years after 6.1) but think its different enough to merit a different name. But to be fair the PS85 and 6.1 are also very different yet still called PS

But to the original question, Wilson will probably always make a frame called ProStaff - not unlike how Ford now sells an electric suv called "Mustang" haha
 

AndrewUtz

Semi-Pro
i think they will continue the pro staff line and i think they will get rid of the PSX, which is a shame because i hear it’s a lovely addition to the lineup.
 
To be honest I still feel that way... To me the PS85 is the *true* ProStaff - and the 6.1 95 is the most modern version that still has that intangible "ProStaffness". The PS97 is a great frame (I played the RF97 for years after 6.1) but think its different enough to merit a different name. But to be fair the PS85 and 6.1 are also very different yet still called PS

But to the original question, Wilson will probably always make a frame called ProStaff - not unlike how Ford now sells an electric suv called "Mustang" haha
I am interested how you feel this because for me the experience of PS97 is more or less identical to the revered mid/late-1980s Head Graphite Pro.
 

Unforgiven79

Semi-Pro
PS97 v14 needs fast swinging, is demanding, has a relatively small sweet spot, you have to line up shots nicely and swing through. Feel is very crispy, but it tires my arm and shoulder quite a bit, dunno why, feels like high frequency ringing after impact, and several youtubers have complained about it too.
If you switch from a D-shaped or O-shaped racquet to such a 100% box-beam racquet, having to push it through the air to produce acceleration, only to be rewarded with a tide of vibrations, will necessarily get your arm and shoulder sore.

It's kind of similar with the Prestige, you might think that it doesn't fit anymore into the modern game, but there are still plenty of people who grew up with them and want them.
The ProStaff is still sold and it also complements the line very well - there was a ProStaff before Fed, and there will be after him

Don't forget that ProStaff is one of Wilson's most known brands, also present in golf etc
That is a key point: companies have to invest just so much to build a recognizeable brand, only eventually to throw everything down the bin. Prestige and Pro Staff are well-known all across the board as "racquets for those who know what it takes to play": personally I am very proud to have been able to play tournaments with these two racquets in my hand, because I know for a fact most reacreational players simply would not be not able to.
...That said, then, why should you assign the Prestige pj on a Francisco Cerundolo?!? What is the point here?

Yes, I'm not sure why people keep saying Pro Staff 97 is not suited to 'modern game' or is a 'control racquet'. It's basically a Pure Aero VS. Open 16x19 pattern, big sweet-spot, medium-stiff flex. It's incredibly easy to play with and I don't understand why more young players don't use it.
No, please. RF 97 Pro in fact is a blend of PS and Pure Aero, but the PS97, with its box-beam, 315g, HL balance.... no, there is nothing in common.


I love the PS X and am genuinely concerned for its future given the seemingly lack of popularity since its release and competition from the RF line. Truly hope some WTA players and juniors sustain it. At the very least I could rely on the pro stock market for the frame…
I am afraid the idea underneath PS X was correct, but the product simply fall short by ending in the middle of nowhere: still a PS for most people (hence to avoid), not enough of a PS for die-hard fans.

If you like the PS, I don´ really think you would like the new RF Pro...it is a very demanding racquet, kind of unique within today´s portfolio of all frames but very specific. Had a chance to test it but for me it´s a no go for sure. It might suite to a certain type of attacking advanced players who have great technique and their playstyle is mainly attack + finishing points at net. It´s not a baseliner´s dream at all :) this racquet doesn´t like neutral shots and hates to defend. No help whatsoever, very low launch angle, simply not for an average 4.0 Joe :)
I don't think RF Pro is better at finishing at the net than a PS: still it has great maneuvrability, but it feels more of a racquet to fire groundstrokes and to counterpunch by receiving some free help when on the backfoot.
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
The ProStaff label has been a Wilson thing in more than tennis (golf for one) for more years than I care to remember. I'm quite sure Federer is getting a bump off the sale of the rackets bearing the logo he owns. Once Federer's fame has ebbed a bit, look for Wilson to quiet DC the frame. The ProStaff will most likely outlive the folks on the boards.
 

AndrewUtz

Semi-Pro
I am afraid the idea underneath PS X was correct, but the product simply fall short by ending in the middle of nowhere: still a PS for most people (hence to avoid), not enough of a PS for die-hard fans.
I’ve really only heard positive things about the PS X. Why it’s not more of a hit could be as you hinted just the name. I don’t think the PS X was created to appeal to old PS die hards but rather a new generation who want to be competitive in the landscape of modern but still want a control racquet (now obviously that hasn’t gone according to plan and i hope the PS X isn’t next on the chopping block). I don’t think the PS X is any less playable than either blade 98.
 

forzamr_b

Rookie
I’ve really only heard positive things about the PS X. Why it’s not more of a hit could be as you hinted just the name. I don’t think the PS X was created to appeal to old PS die hards but rather a new generation who want to be competitive in the landscape of modern but still want a control racquet (now obviously that hasn’t gone according to plan and i hope the PS X isn’t next on the chopping block). I don’t think the PS X is any less playable than either blade 98.
My personal experience has been great but I’ve only met one other opponent who has wielded the X and for this guy the X wasn’t even his main frame. And it was clear that the static weight was too high for him.

And I think that has been the X’s challenge. Typical 100 users are turned away from its higher static weight, while traditional control frame players are prejudiced and would never consider anything above 98 sq inches. But it is this latter group which I feel will greatly benefit from the X, if they gave it a fair chance. Hasn’t helped that every YouTube review on the X I’ve seen has been lukewarm at best. I don’t lend much weight to such reviews but I think the general tennis community do.

Even for myself, as much as I like the X, I’m also wondering if I can squeeze more marginal gains if I were to switch to a 300/305g unstrung frame, even though currently the weight isn’t bothering me. So far, I keep returning to the X. But perhaps if Wilson lowered the static to 300/305 in the next iteration (I truly hope there’s one in the future), this line will have more success. Conversely, I do fear that a lower weight may mess with why it’s such a gd frame for me! If only I could get my hands on a super under spec static weight X to test!
 

AndrewUtz

Semi-Pro
My personal experience has been great but I’ve only met one other opponent who has wielded the X and for this guy the X wasn’t even his main frame. And it was clear that the static weight was too high for him.

And I think that has been the X’s challenge. Typical 100 users are turned away from its higher static weight, while traditional control frame players are prejudiced and would never consider anything above 98 sq inches. But it is this latter group which I feel will greatly benefit from the X, if they gave it a fair chance. Hasn’t helped that every YouTube review on the X I’ve seen has been lukewarm at best. I don’t lend much weight to such reviews but I think the general tennis community do.

Even for myself, as much as I like the X, I’m also wondering if I can squeeze more marginal gains if I were to switch to a 300/305g unstrung frame, even though currently the weight isn’t bothering me. So far, I keep returning to the X. But perhaps if Wilson lowered the static to 300/305 in the next iteration (I truly hope there’s one in the future), this line will have more success. Conversely, I do fear that a lower weight may mess with why it’s such a gd frame for me! If only I could get my hands on a super under spec static weight X to test!
that’d be interesting. Yeah I came from the Dunlop Cx 200 tour 18x20 and was looking at three frames, the PS X, Percept 100D, and Prestige MP. Ultimately ended up going with the prestige because i love head, but i’d still love to try the PS X.
 

AlexKangaroo

New User
Hasn’t helped that every YouTube review on the X I’ve seen has been lukewarm at best. I don’t lend much weight to such reviews but I think the general tennis community do.
I find that the reviewers always have the same pattern they use in their videos. They will take the pro's and con's, but generally will always be more positive about the racquets they review. Viewers on youtube want to be excited about new frames so the reviewers will hype them even though they aren't really liking it. Then after a while when they make a Tier list video or the never version will drop, they can start "hating" on the racquet. But I agree that the PS X did receive a very mediocre reaction from the influencers. They seem to not like the "inbetwen" position and identity crisis the racquet occupies. Also whenever a racquet lacks a super star endorsment I feel like some influencers will immediately be ½ the usual enthusiasm for a new frame :D .
 

dl32

Rookie
Was playing this week with my K Blade Pro Stock in 18x20 and my hitting partner had a v13 PS97, full bed of 4G @ 55.

Granted the strings needed to be cut out but the frame felt good and 4G @ 55 seems crazy to me in a PS97. We swapped frames for a few mins and was just hitting rhythm and decided to load up on one at about 90% and the ball came off hot and felt darn good even with the strings not being ideal. Hit a few slices and this was also impressive. Slice is how I terrorize opponents. Frame felt fast enough, I didn’t feel like it dragged through the air.

This whole concept of modern tennis frames is kind of not relevant to me as my 18x20 K Blade (2008 frame) has more pop, Spin and insane control than just about any of the junk out there today. And it feels so much better in hand on touch and angle.

The PS97 is gonna live on its just a matter of will it get the investment from Wilson to put in the hands of younger players.
 

gino

Legend
The PS line is great. The one mistake with V14 was the paint job. It is still popular frame but if it was black paint job like or similar to V13 it would excel, stylish and minimalistic. Hope they get it right for V15.
worries me they made the clash all black
 

Icsa

Professional
worries me they made the clash all black
Not to worry, the clash still caries the Wilson red with it:
rs.php
 

tele

Hall of Fame
The PS line is great. The one mistake with V14 was the paint job. It is still popular frame but if it was black paint job like or similar to V13 it would excel, stylish and minimalistic. Hope they get it right for V15.
The V13 paint job was indeed very attractive.
 

dl32

Rookie
Agree, v13 paint looks better but would have been significantly better as gloss or whatever was used for V14.
 

jj4545

New User
But the paint quality was absolute rubbish
Can't agree. I have 2 frames bought second hand and one of them is used more than 4 years regularly, only minor dark greyish scratches, no peeling or chipping whatsoever. Have I friend who bought the RF 97 V13 1,5 year ago, looks worse than mine. Maybe there is variations with the QC as always with Wilson.
 
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