Vatic Pro Prism Flash excellent

[ByeByePoly]

fyi … got to play a full game (doubles) with a new Legacy Pro. I found very little difference between it and my Vatic Pro V7 as far as play, including power and topspin. I could switch between the two with no issue. I did not find the “too much power” issue I have seen on many reviews. Maybe the batches after the delamination/core crushing issues tamed it some. The main thing I noticed is Legacy feels more muted than V7. I have gone from wanting muted to preferring more feedback … not sure what to call it. Maybe more “boardy” … both Legacy and V7 feel close on stiffness, but Legacy more muted.

Glad I got to play with it long enough for comparison. I would like to do the same with Ronbus R3 Pulsar.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Continuing my Vatic paddle diary and paddle purchase problem (Daryl at Vatic should love me … maybe shirts and bag next) …

Yes … considering another paddle … Vatic Pro Flash 14mm

Why? Playing a good team yesterday with really fast hands, it became obvious I was better in firefights with wife’s Vatic Pro Flash 16mm (8.2 oz … no lead) vs my Vatic Pro V7 (8.5 oz … no lead). Still prefer V7 on drives/banging … will always be this tradeoff in doubles … but my path (if any) to higher levels is lower swing weight at kitchen.

So why not just another Vatic Pro Flash 16mm? That actually may be the final answer … really like the paddle, drives good (but best with V7), other than overheads faster/better at the kitchen than V7. Bottom line … play good with paddle. What is a bit different is Flash 16mm more springy … actually very fun springy. I have good control … not having serve or return of serve UEs … but I prefer the control feeling (at least on drives) of everything down to my swing speed and swing path (more like V7 … hoping 14mm feels more like V7 without the spring). Not sure about dinking , , topspin speedups and roll volleys … 16mm is effortless including those subtle/late direction changes. Very fun to play with actually.

I will try and get to demo Vatic Pro Flash 14mm … if I do will post here. One of the things I’m most interested in is 14mm having even more spin than the 16mm (different carbon fiber weave on 14mm … like Legacy Pro). I have started using more spin in doubles (topspin lobs … baseline and kitchen, topspin 3rd shot drops, angles, speedups, etc). I have always hit good topspin on serves and returns … but continue to notice softer control spinny often messes with better players that have no problem with hard drives. BTW … backspin ros messes with very good intermediate players that surprises me. I guess most of us tennis players have faced years of backspin … pball players not so much.

@Bud

 

[Bud]

Continuing my Vatic paddle diary and paddle purchase problem (Daryl at Vatic should love me … maybe shirts and bag next) …

Yes … considering another paddle … Vatic Pro Flash 14mm

Why? Playing a good team yesterday with really fast hands, it became obvious I was better in firefights with wife’s Vatic Pro Flash 16mm (8.2 oz … no lead) vs my Vatic Pro V7 (8.5 oz … no lead). Still prefer V7 on drives/banging … will always be this tradeoff in doubles … but my path (if any) to higher levels is lower swing weight at kitchen.

So why not just another Vatic Pro Flash 16mm? That actually may be the final answer … really like the paddle, drives good (but best with V7), other than overheads faster/better at the kitchen than V7. Bottom line … play good with paddle. What is a bit different is Flash 16mm more springy … actually very fun springy. I have good control … not having serve or return of serve UEs … but I prefer the control feeling (at least on drives) of everything down to my swing speed and swing path (more like V7 … hoping 14mm feels more like V7 without the spring). Not sure about dinking , , topspin speedups and roll volleys … 16mm is effortless including those subtle/late direction changes. Very fun to play with actually.

I will try and get to demo Vatic Pro Flash 14mm … if I do will post here. One of the things I’m most interested in is 14mm having even more spin than the 16mm (different carbon fiber weave on 14mm … like Legacy Pro). I have started using more spin in doubles (topspin lobs … baseline and kitchen, topspin 3rd shot drops, angles, speedups, etc). I have always hit good topspin on serves and returns … but continue to notice softer control spinny often messes with better players that have no problem with hard drives. BTW … backspin ros messes with very good intermediate players that surprises me. I guess most of us tennis players have faced years of backspin … pball players not so much.

@Bud

I'm sticking with the OYA Obsidian. It works the best for my game.

My Gruvn paddle with the 6" handle is my second favorite.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I'm sticking with the OYA Obsidian. It works the best for my game.

My Gruvn paddle with the 6" handle is my second favorite.

Excellent your paddle travels found success. I need a paddle demo service like TW with racquets … but all paddles ever made.

I would explore longer handle, but I am just mixing in “some” 2hbhs, still goto is 1hbh drive, and 1hbh slice ros. I like the 2hbh better for topspin … so trying to use it more for cc angles and 2hbh topspin 3rd shot drops (from left/ad side cc trying to get near line to opponents bh). I intend to start trying 2hbh for speedups … but haven’t yet. Also … I have adjusted to 2hbh with index finger behind paddle face on Vatic’s 5.3”/5.4” grip … feels natural and stable now … works … definitely weird at first.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Ordered Vatic Pro Flash 14mm … more Vatic Pro diary addition here next week.

Was hard not to just order another Pro Flash 16mm … played several hours with wife’s 16mm again today and it is simply fun from the kitchen. In particular the assist you get on your roll volleys, and effortless direction change with subtle wrist/hand movement (flips ???). Light paddles seem better for disguise. But … I would have always wondered about 14mm … and read enough reviews to make me think 14mm will work best for me. Guess I will find out.

I really like supporting a startup like Vatic Pro … go Daryl … disrupt.

fyi … hit enough topspin lobs today with Pro Flash 16mm to verify it is pretty much the same max spin as Pro V7 … which is pretty frickin good. I no longer think topspin lob from baseline will be too error prone … I think it can really disrupt the kitchen centric play … at least in rec play. It’s the topspin that gives it the chance to be low UE in such a small court. The 14mm supposedly has more spin than the 16mm … hope so … I’ll take it.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I am always interested in Luca’s reviews because he is someone with tennis skills … maybe common ground to relate to. He seems to be more of a singles player, so factor that in if only playing doubles … which is most of us.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Vatic Pro Flash 14mm initial impression:

My goal was simply matching (as close as possible) Vatic Pro V7 power/feel/control with less swing weight at kitchen for faster response in kitchen play.

Looks like 14mm was a good choice ... based on a couple of play sessions. I will update after more play.

Power/control

- 7.8 oz starting stock static weight
- 8.0 oz with tournagrip

I found the power close enough to V7 on serves, drives. I also found serving to spots control like I do with V7.

8oz seemed too light returning good serves, so I added .2 oz lead to both sides approximately at balance point. 8.4 oz big improvement, good to go, don’t expect to add more weight. Paddle starts at 111 swing weight vs 120 V7, so still noticeably faster hands at kitchen with 8.4 oz Flash 14 vs 8.5 oz V7 16. Per Brayden at Pickleball Effect, adding weight at balance point and lower will result in only modest increase in swing weight.

Vatic Pro Flash 14 vs 16:

Both excellent paddles imo … I think I would end up playing better doubles with either instead of more head heavy V7. I absolutely love the V7 … very balance to me … but even the modest swing weight of 120 for an extended paddle is still noticeable at kitchen.

The main difference to me between the two is Flash 16 seems springy … 14 closer to V7 feel (get what you put into it). In tennis terms ... 16 feels like multi string strung low tension, 14 strung with poly. I find myself really liking the 16 springy assist at the kitchn … no problem with dinking, resets, speedups … spring very good for firefight.

But … I find myself not wanting the spring on serves, and in particular don’t want it on return of serve. I don’t make a lot of ros errors with 16, and with the spring/assist 8 oz is sufficient for me on ros which has the upside of 8 oz at kitchen vs 8.4 oz 14mm.

With 16mm springy … you get softer less stiff feel compared to 14, but both thermoformed so these are not the paddles for someone not looking for stiffer power.

 

[Bisquick]

Wanna try a Prism - anyone have a Vatic discount code to use on their store?

 

[ByeByePoly]

Wanna try a Prism - anyone have a Vatic discount code to use on their store?

Many out there … PICKLEBALLWILL will work. To get for $90 (also can request weight preference in comments) buy from Vatic Pro website. Or blow of discount and buy for $100 off of Am@zon.

fyi … there is no demo and return.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Brief Vatic Pro Flash 14mm update … further review later. I have weighted (lead on sides) to 8.8ish oz in an attempt to get it closer to my V7 8.4 oz from baseline. Pretty much accomplished … amazing how much more solid this paddle feels with added weight. But my goal switching to less swing weight hybrid was faster hands in firefights, and easier flicks at the kitchen. When I pick up the paddle I notice it feels heavier than my comfort zone … generally static weight 8.4ish oz. Now comes the confusing head scratching part … I played my best firefight pickleball ever … significantly better. I was playing against some of our top players … one in particular… and was pretty much matching him and hitting my share of finishing volleys. Opposite of what I expected … to me light static weight would be best regardless of swing weight on short punch firefights. fyi … V7 swing weight 120ish … 14 Flash 110ish. My thought is we/me can handle more paddle weight than we think in volley firefights, and the extra mass works in your favor (as long as you don’t exceed your personal paddle weight limit/threshold).

My flick rolls and speedups were fine … but if that was the only shot I was hitting I would choose my wife’s 8 oz Flash 16 … just easy and fun. That’s the problem with picking a paddle … a lot of tradeoffs we really didn’t have with tennis racquets.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Final Vatic Flash 14mm setup … rather than 8.8 with all lead 8-10 and 2-4, reduced lead a little on sides and added 3g at 12. Trial and error but done … good to go.

Vatic Pro Flash 14
8.71 oz
3g lead at 8, 10,12, 2, 4

We are all different … but I would recommend everyone at least try 8.4 oz … plays significantly better/different than 7.8-8.0 oz.

 

[kreative]

Wanna try a Prism - anyone have a Vatic discount code to use on their store?

I've bought quite a few Vatic paddles and used code VATIC10OFF. Should get $10 discount and free shipping.

My favorite (and current paddle) is the Pro V7 and my son plays with the Pro Flash 16mm. Prizms are softer with less pop.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I've bought quite a few Vatic paddles and used code VATIC10OFF. Should get $10 discount and free shipping.

My favorite (and current paddle) is the Pro V7 and my son plays with the Pro Flash 16mm. Prizms are softer with less pop.

Very hard for me to put the V7 down … but I have played enough with Flash 14mm now to know I’m sticking with it. Best at kitchen with Flash (other than overheads) … best at baseline with V7 (other than topspin 3rd shot drops … was fine with V7 but better with Flash). Improvement with dinking and firefights … but perhaps the most important is effortless topspin rolls and flicks to targets. I am noticing accurate controlled flicks/rolls to intended targets often more effective than pace.

So me Pro Flash 14mm 8.7 oz, wife Pro Flash 16mm 8.2 oz … and new black Vatic Pro bag on the way to carry all four Vatic Pro paddles. You never know when I might need a V7 baseline banging fix … or pull out the Prism Flash 16mm for the great feel of control. Also … I like to have the Prism with me to let players looking for a new paddle hit with it so they know how good of a paddle you can buy for $90 these days.

 

[kreative]

We are all different … but I would recommend everyone at least try 8.4 oz … plays significantly better/different than 7.8-8.0 oz.

I'm actually in the process of adding more lead to my Flash 14mm as well to try to improve stability and a little more pop w/o impacting sw too much. I love the manueverability.

I've also heard really positive reviews on the Volair Mach 1 Forza 14mm so thinking about trying that one. I tried the new Gearbox Pro Power and sweetspot is small, but if you hit, solid response albight very muted thud, close to the feeling of those eva foam paddles.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I'm actually in the process of adding more lead to my Flash 14mm as well to try to improve stability and a little more pop w/o impacting sw too much. I love the manueverability.

I've also heard really positive reviews on the Volair Mach 1 Forza 14mm so thinking about trying that one. I tried the new Gearbox Pro Power and sweetspot is small, but if you hit, solid response albight very muted thud, close to the feeling of those eva foam paddles.

14mm brother

I briefly hit Forza 16mm … and have been whooped by it several games. I didn’t hit it long enough for much opinion, but did not get any immediate thought of “love this” … like my brief hit with 6.0 DBD.

Pro Flash or Prism … you probably already said above.

I had read several comments that Pro Flash 14mm plays drastically different/better with added weight … more than with other paddles. For me … that proved to be true … never would have guessed I would bump up to 8.7 oz. I also would not have believed my hands are significantly faster with Pro Flash 14mm at 8.7 than Pro V7 at 8.4 oz. 8.7 oz is heaviest I have gone with any paddle so far. My take is paddle length (even 1/2” shorter), and initial 10 pts swingweight difference actually matters.

I do think the Flash 14mm sweet spot is a little less forgiving than the Flash 16mm, and V7 entire face and edge guard is all sweet spot. I never added weight to wife’s 8.2 oz Flash 16mm, or added weight to 8.4 oz V7, so no direct comparison there. Good thing about starting with Flash 14m swingweight of 110ish … you can customize to what you want.

btw … one place where the added weight really seems to help is when volleying/blocking a hard hit baseline drive. Sometimes those are the hardest to find center of paddle … and extra weight seems to help block volley over. Of course … even better would be learn to hit everything dead center … but based on my tennis that ain’t going to happen.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I'm actually in the process of adding more lead to my Flash 14mm as well to try to improve stability and a little more pop w/o impacting sw too much. I love the manueverability.

I've also heard really positive reviews on the Volair Mach 1 Forza 14mm so thinking about trying that one. I tried the new Gearbox Pro Power and sweetspot is small, but if you hit, solid response albight very muted thud, close to the feeling of those eva foam paddles.

My Vatic Pro bag has arrived … now my paddle problem can travel with me to the courts. Daryl at Vatic Pro should sponsor me.

 

[MRfStop]

I just bought a (used) Vatic Pro Prism Flash because of this post

 

[ByeByePoly]

I just bought a (used) Vatic Pro Prism Flash because of this post

Now I feel pressure. Hope you like it … I really liked it but was too used to thermoform power and pop and I couldn’t give it up. I am not at all convinced I wouldn’t have played my best if I stuck with it … control is king. It travels in my bag with the other three Vatic Pro paddles … I intend to pull it out again for a game or two in open play just to compare again.

 

[MRfStop]

Now I feel pressure. Hope you like it … I really liked it but was too used to thermoform power and pop and I couldn’t give it up. I am not at all convinced I wouldn’t have played my best if I stuck with it … control is king. It travels in my bag with the other three Vatic Pro paddles … I intend to pull it out again for a game or two in open play just to compare again.

Im sure it will be an upgrade from my used Head Extreme Tour paddle

 

[kreative]

14mm brother

I briefly hit Forza 16mm … and have been whooped by it several games. I didn’t hit it long enough for much opinion, but did not get any immediate thought of “love this” … like my brief hit with 6.0 DBD.

Pro Flash or Prism … you probably already said above.

I had read several comments that Pro Flash 14mm plays drastically different/better with added weight … more than with other paddles. For me … that proved to be true … never would have guessed I would bump up to 8.7 oz. I also would not have believed my hands are significantly faster with Pro Flash 14mm at 8.7 than Pro V7 at 8.4 oz. 8.7 oz is heaviest I have gone with any paddle so far. My take is paddle length (even 1/2” shorter), and initial 10 pts swingweight difference actually matters.

I do think the Flash 14mm sweet spot is a little less forgiving than the Flash 16mm, and V7 entire face and edge guard is all sweet spot. I never added weight to wife’s 8.2 oz Flash 16mm, or added weight to 8.4 oz V7, so no direct comparison there. Good thing about starting with Flash 14m swingweight of 110ish … you can customize to what you want.

btw … one place where the added weight really seems to help is when volleying/blocking a hard hit baseline drive. Sometimes those are the hardest to find center of paddle … and extra weight seems to help block volley over. Of course … even better would be learn to hit everything dead center … but based on my tennis that ain’t going to happen.

I'm team thermoform. Prism was nice and soft, but I'm addicted to the extra pop and stability especially on off-center hits that thermoformed paddles provide. But the Prism was a step up from the XSPAK imo.

Still tweaking the 14mm Pro Flash, added quite a bit to the throat-to-mid area, now I'm experimenting with adding some to 10 & 2 to open up the sweetspot some more, but don't want to lose the manueverability....definitely a "platform" paddle if you will, but I'm still zeroing in on the setup. I'm fairly content with the Pro V7 overall, but a little more manueverability for those quick hand battles would be nice...hence the experiments with the 14mm Flash. Flash 16mm felt odd and inconsistent to me and I didn't gel with it, but similarly, my wife likes it [stock]...go figure. She's still relatively new though.

You're pretty committed to Vatic Pro, and I don't think I'm that far behind lol...multiple paddles and users in the family.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I'm team thermoform. Prism was nice and soft, but I'm addicted to the extra pop and stability especially on off-center hits that thermoformed paddles provide. But the Prism was a step up from the XSPAK imo.

Still tweaking the 14mm Pro Flash, added quite a bit to the throat-to-mid area, now I'm experimenting with adding some to 10 & 2 to open up the sweetspot some more, but don't want to lose the manueverability....definitely a "platform" paddle if you will, but I'm still zeroing in on the setup. I'm fairly content with the Pro V7 overall, but a little more manueverability for those quick hand battles would be nice...hence the experiments with the 14mm Flash. Flash 16mm felt odd and inconsistent to me and I didn't gel with it, but similarly, my wife likes it [stock]...go figure. She's still relatively new though.

You're pretty committed to Vatic Pro, and I don't think I'm that far behind lol...multiple paddles and users in the family.

I am a fan of the owner Daryl … watched him on a couple of podcasts and a couple of emails with him. I hope he disrupts the $300 paddle market and buys Vatic Island one day.

Looks like 14mm is it … I don’t find myself reaching for V7 security blanket anymore. I do think the V7 16mm is more forgiving … but have resolved most of that now with enough reps. For me … I needed baseline drive reps, enough swingweight difference to need adjustment. 8.7 oz 14mm Flash feels lighter on full forehands than 8.4 oz V7 … guess swingweight even on a paddle is a thing. My doubles partner hit some drives with my V7 and Flash, and he preferred the Flash. He hits the Hyperion … so I got to hit it. I see why people liked that paddle, felt good from baseline, but too muted for my preference. The more I try paddles, the more I confirm I don’t prefer soft/muted feel. I always assumed I would prefer soft/plush for dinking, but whatever the Flash 14mm is … it’s the best my dinking has been so far.

 

[1HBHfanatic]

@ByeByePoly
-how do you control all that power??
-got a chance to try the 16mm (2x times so far), i could not reset properly, popped up to much for me
-is the 14mm a big less powerfull? easier to reset with?

 

[ByeByePoly]

@ByeByePoly
-how do you control all that power??
-got a chance to try the 16mm (2x times so far), i could not reset properly, popped up to much for me
-is the 14mm a big less powerfull? easier to reset with?

I don’t have much control issues with thermoformed paddles with dinks, 3rd shot drops, touch lobs from kitchen, speedups, varying pace and spin … BUT

I don’t reset.

That’s a joke … but unfortunately some truth in it. It’s in my top things to change my mindset/habits:

Edit:

- less unforced errors … I was low error tennis player. I don’t think you can match tennis consistency … no strings, plastic ball, not baseline game … but I still miss too many easy shots.

- hit more volley dinks as first option when there rather than off bounce
- change mindset to think reset from no man’s land (transition zone) rather than tennis bang it when in defensive position
- be more aggressive from no man’s land (including 2hbh swing volley) when there
- more 2hbh in general … 3rd shot drops, swing volleys, 3rd shot drives, some ros

So the truth part of “no resets) is I still play to much tennis on the pickleball court. I pretty much got past dumb speedups from kitchen line, but in my mind I can hit that forehand drive from right off the bounce through that 2ft window past opponents every time. Yeah …. I lie to myself … hit one beautiful shot and miss 5.

I started to watch John Cicola’s tips videos … I think he is one of the best at getting right to the important stuff. He might as well title his website “when you tennis players finally get tired of losing pickleball … I will be here for you”.

I recommend all his videos … but this one captures what wise pickleball players have already learned, and tennis players will eventually learn. The way I look at it is use our tennis skills (drives) to our advantage when there, but lose the mindset “it’s always there”.

btw … I also think there is risk for thinking to defensive (bagging all 3rd shot drives for 3rd shot drops, not being aggressive from transition zone when there). One of my favorite doubles partners isn’t the best baseline driver, but at his best hitting aggressive volleys on the way to kitchen. I have come to the conclusion in doubles if you could only be great at baseline drives, or great at swing volleys from transition to kitchen … take the transition power skills. Even in pros … think Anna Leigh Waters. Obviously she is great at everything … but to my eyes where she is clearly best even over tennis pros coming in is that aggressive volley play from transition to kitchen (swings out of her shoes with any slight advantage, and very fast lateral movement).

 

[kreative]

@ByeByePoly
-how do you control all that power??
-got a chance to try the 16mm (2x times so far), i could not reset properly, popped up to much for me
-is the 14mm a big less powerfull? easier to reset with?

What paddle are you currently playing with? I was playing with an XSPAK before the V7 Pro 16mm and it was a bit of adjustment on the resets and dinks. But the main discovery I had was that I didn't have to swing as much. I actually found that I could reset well just by setting the paddle low with minimal movement, and it was similar on the dinks. If you're popping the ball up you're probably hitting too much on the rise so you have to be patient and let the ball fall onto the paddle face more.

Typically the thinner paddles have more power compared to the thicker ones. However, the 14mm Flash is less powerful in my experience and I think that's due to the lower weight.

 

[ByeByePoly]

What paddle are you currently playing with? I was playing with an XSPAK before the V7 Pro 16mm and it was a bit of adjustment on the resets and dinks. But the main discovery I had was that I didn't have to swing as much. I actually found that I could reset well just by setting the paddle low with minimal movement, and it was similar on the dinks. If you're popping the ball up you're probably hitting too much on the rise so you have to be patient and let the ball fall onto the paddle face more.

Typically the thinner paddles have more power compared to the thicker ones. However, the 14mm Flash is less powerful in my experience and I think that's due to the lower weight.

I am not having a problem popping up dinks with 14mm. It’s actually hard to judge if 16mm flash or 14mm flash is more powerful because the 16mm gives a springy assist, and 14mm not so much. I don’t want the assist on drives … just like tennis I want to control pace by varying my swing speed. Same with dinks … but on roll volleys and speedups I enjoy the wife’s 16mm. I am just now … finally … where my 8.7 oz 14mm drives (pace and accuracy) are pretty much equal to my V7. Took several weeks … now I’m loving it. It is weird it still feels significantly lighter than 8.4 oz V7. When I bang a fh just feels lighter … where’s the beef?

 

[1HBHfanatic]

What paddle are you currently playing with? I was playing with an XSPAK before the V7 Pro 16mm and it was a bit of adjustment on the resets and dinks. But the main discovery I had was that I didn't have to swing as much. I actually found that I could reset well just by setting the paddle low with minimal movement, and it was similar on the dinks. If you're popping the ball up you're probably hitting too much on the rise so you have to be patient and let the ball fall onto the paddle face more.

Typically the thinner paddles have more power compared to the thicker ones. However, the 14mm Flash is less powerful in my experience and I think that's due to the lower weight.

-yeah, i think thats what i see also!
-i have aand use 13-14mm prokenex.prospin paddle and a 19mm diadem v1.warrior

-thin paddles IMO dont have the mass to pop the ball
-thin paddles however are fast and quick!, and allow one to flick faster, thusly increasing power as a result, with less mass

-thicker paddles in contrast have more mass and thusly get alot of power on the ball when the weight is moving, soo you dont have to swing as much

 

[ByeByePoly]

-yeah, i think thats what i see also!
-i have aand use 13-14mm prokenex.prospin paddle and a 19mm diadem v1.warrior

-thin paddles IMO dont have the mass to pop the ball
-thin paddles however are fast and quick!, and allow one to flick faster, thusly increasing power as a result, with less mass

-thicker paddles in contrast have more mass and thusly get alot of power on the ball when the weight is moving, soo you dont have to swing as much

I will throw in a bit of a mystery to me using the Vatic Pros as an example:

Both our flashes (16 and 14) are only 1/4 inch shorter than V7. Both (16mm @8.2oz and 14mm @8.7oz are/feel significantly faster than V7 16mm @8.4oz). 1/4” doesn’t explain that much difference to me. Yes … different shape, V7 squared off at tip, and Flashes rounded … but still why so different (why so much swing weight difference)? You assume plastic cores are just that … low tech and no weight distribution tricks inside the paddle.

”-thin paddles however are fast and quick!, and allow one to flick faster, thusly increasing power as a result, with less mass”

Yes … the paddle dilemma … swing weight power from baseline, quick kitchen pop

 

[A_Instead]

As holidays are here...it's time to answer the question... "is there anything that you want for x mas?"
I think I may suggest a Vatic as it's not so $$ compared to the other mfgs.. definitely a model in 16 mm. And I think I will go with the foam filled perimeter line as it's something new to try... Now just got to decide on the model..

 

[ByeByePoly]

As holidays are here...it's time to answer the question... "is there anything that you want for x mas?"
I think I may suggest a Vatic as it's not so $$ compared to the other mfgs.. definitely a model in 16 mm. And I think I will go with the foam filled perimeter line as it's something new to try... Now just got to decide on the model..

First thing to decide is thermoformed power/stiffness or not. As quality a paddle as the Prism Flash is (has foam perimeter and unibody face through handle, but not thermoformed welded carbon edge) … I found I didn’t want to give up thermoformed power/spin … even feel, like the stiffer paddle feel.

After that … swingweight, hand speed, paddle shape. If you end up at thermoformed Flash … 16mm vs 14mm not as straightforward as one might guess. I would suggest anyone buying Vatic Pro Flash try and get to hit both 16mm and 14mm (not always possible … wasn’t for me). 16mm good to go without weighting up … with a pleasing feeling springy face which shines at kitchen. I found 14mm less springy … easier for me to get what I expected by controlling/varying my swing speed. Weighted up to 8.7oz … now a pleasant solid feel. As I posted before … would have told you 8.7oz would have been too heavy for me … never wanted to go past 8.4 oz with V7. But I was wrong … fastest hands so far with any of my paddles. I think it’s because stock 14mm starts at swingweight 110ish … so very customizable. I also think it’s because many shots in a firefight are 1hbh ping pong type short arm movements and the extra mass helps … particularly on covers/blocks.

 

[A_Instead]

I am still using a Franklin Ben Johns 16 mm model as I bought 5 last black Friday for $40 each. All within 2 grams of one another as I weight them at the store.
I do not know swing weight.. but I do use a 5 gram overgrip and have 1 gram of lead at noon on all..
I don't have any issues with fast net exchanges at 4.0 level.
I will take any recommendations on which Vatic to purchase.
I know I will get enhanced spin and more pop regardless..
Just want something new with modern features to help me improve even further..

 

[ByeByePoly]

I am still using a Franklin Ben Johns 16 mm model as I bought 5 last black Friday for $40 each. All within 2 grams of one another as I weight them at the store.
I do not know swing weight.. but I do use a 5 gram overgrip and have 1 gram of lead at noon on all..
I don't have any issues with fast net exchanges at 4.0 level.
I will take any recommendations on which Vatic to purchase.
I know I will get enhanced spin and more pop regardless..
Just want something new with modern features to help me improve even further..

Franklin Signature Pro Series 16mm Pickleball Paddle | Pickleball Warehouse

www.totalpickleball.com

Specifications​

Weight: 8.1 oz. ( ±0.5 oz.)

Core: Polypropylene Honeycomb

Hitting Surface: Fiberglass

Grip Size: 4.75 in.

Handle Length: 5.6 in.

Paddle Length: 16.5 in.

Paddle Width: 7.3 in.

Paddle Thickness: 16 mm.

Factory Grip: Franklin Wrap

4.75 inch grip … surely not. Wow. Also … Vatic won’t match the 5.6” handle if you hit a 2hbh. Vatic V7 5.3”, Flash 5.4”.

Have you tried a thermoformed carbon face paddle before? You would be going from gen 1 fiberglass to gen 2 thermoformed carbon face. Some players find the thermoformed too poppy leaving dinks to high … but generally those comments are from players moving from gen 1 carbon to gen 2 carbon. Fiberglass is another wildcard for you. Major spin and control improvement with carbon face for me (I hit topspin and slice) … but fiberglass good power. I went from Prince Response Pro … which I liked but I would never go back to fiberglass now.

If you haven’t hit a thermoformed carbon face paddle I would start there. All the thermoformed seem to be close enough … so you would know pretty quick if they are for you or not. If not … the non-thermoformed Prism (both V7 elongated shape you are used too, and the hybrid Flash) are steals at $90 imo and most of the paddle reviewers. I haven’t hit the Franklin, so can’t speak to power vs Prisms.

If you are playing 4.0 … I think paddle shapes and swing speed can matter. I never thought I would go away from extended squarish head shape, but now I prefer the hybrid shape. I only play doubles … so pretty much my paddle preference evolution is all based on kitchen play, sacrificing some baseline and overheads if necessary.

 

[A_Instead]

I know what I DONT want..is a tiny A_ _ grip..(circumference) and a short A_ _ paddle.. I only play doubles..
I dink often..I drive often..I bash often.. I can play whatever game is presented to me..

If any Vatic has tiny circumstance grips..
Please recommend another manufacturer with a high performance less expensive option.. TY..
I don't have demo as options..

 

[ByeByePoly]

I know what I DONT want..is a tiny A_ _ grip..(circumference) and a short A_ _ paddle.. I only play doubles..
I dink often..I drive often..I bash often.. I can play whatever game is presented to me..

If any Vatic has tiny circumstance grips..
Please recommend another manufacturer with a high performance less expensive option.. TY..
I don't have demo as options..

Yeah … Vatics have the more common 4 1/8 … in tennis I was 1/4 + overgrip, so 1/8 + overgrip fine for a paddle.

 

[kreative]

The Franklin Signature Ben Johns 16mm is probably the largest grip paddle in production. When I played with it I had to remove the grip and rewrap with just an overgrip. I later moved on to the 13mm version which had a smaller, more comfortable grip size [for me]. For comparison, I use a L3 4 3/8 grip + overgrip for tennis, but with the paddle being smaller, having a huge grip felt disproportionate. I don't think any other current paddles make grip sizes that big. The grip shape is also quite rectangular which isn't as common anymore either.

I would recommend the Vatic Pro V7 which would be similar in size and shape to your current paddle, but provide more pop and stability. If you're looking for more manueverability, spin and just a little bump in power, I would recommend the Pro Flash 16mm. If you're looking for much more manueverability, spin and a good customization platform then probably the Pro Flash 14mm. That all said, like BBP said, the grip sizes are all 4 1/4 and more square shaped compared to the Franklin.

If you really want to stick to a bigger grip size, you may want to check out the XSPAK Tournament. It's a squarish 4 3/8 grip size and felt closest to my tennis racket grip. 16mm, carbon face, soft feel. It won't have as much pop as the Franklin, but it does offer better control and more spin. If you want more pop you can lead it up. It's a great buy right now on BF sale for $70 (normally $100) on Amazon: https://a.co/d/i3g7nWJ You'll want to get the black one as that's the extended model (similar to the Franklin). I think the white is their standard model.

 

[kreative]

btw if you order a Vatic there are discount codes around these forums or online. I've always used VATIC10OFF bc I've ordered so many and it's the one I remember, but I think discount is the same, $10 off plus free shipping. That goes for most of the small brands online - most will have some sort of discount code, just need to google.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I know what I DONT want..is a tiny A_ _ grip..(circumference) and a short A_ _ paddle.. I only play doubles..
I dink often..I drive often..I bash often.. I can play whatever game is presented to me..

If any Vatic has tiny circumstance grips..
Please recommend another manufacturer with a high performance less expensive option.. TY..
I don't have demo as options..

How about a couple of overgrips, or one of these and an overgrip?

Wilson Shock Shield Hybrid Replacement Grip Black | Tennis Warehouse

www.tennis-warehouse.com

 

[A_Instead]

when adding more then 1 overgrip to a paddle the bevel feel is defeated on most paddles..
It also throws the balance off..
Same with using alternate base grips..
My onyx premier has a tiny grip.. that paddle doesn't take mods well.

 

[A_Instead]

I think I will go with the the Pro V7 or the Pro Flash 16 based on your recommendations.. just got to decide on which one...

 

[ByeByePoly]

I think I will go with the the Pro V7 or the Pro Flash 16 based on your recommendations.. just got to decide on which one...

I just posted this in other thread … $20 off also on Pro Flash:

fyi … Vatic Pro V7 $20 off on Vatic Website … $139.99 $119.99 … and I assume you can still get another $10 off with code. $109 … good timing. Also … when you buy on Vatic website vs Amazon you can request weight preference.

V7 will be your easier transition … and if you have been good to go at kitchen with Franklin you will be with V7. V7 swing weight of 120ish is lower end for 16.5” extended paddles, also good balanced paddle … so might even pick up some kitchen hand speed over Franklin. One other consideration … I find the V7 sweet spot more forgiving than Flashes, but all good.

The only reason to move to Flashes imo … and the reason I did … is if you needed the hand speed improvement at kitchen (I did). My guess is many doubles only players (most of us) will be moving to hybrid shape … we will see.

I will be curious if you like the Vatic of your choosing. Be warned … starts out innocently with one paddle … ends in three more Vatics and a bag.

 

[A_Instead]

Is it me... but is the Vatic naming conventions confusing?
Perhaps I am just dense...

So are you recommending me the Purple or Orange decal v7?
Which have the similar shape to my FBJ..

 

[ByeByePoly]

Is it me... but is the Vatic naming conventions confusing?
Perhaps I am just dense...

So are you recommending me the Purple or Orange decal v7?
Which have the similar shape to my FBJ..

I would get the orange V7 … but some things to consider:

All that follows about V7s and not Flashes:

- Orange new thermoformed … more power and spin than purple

128ish swing weight Purple
120ish swing weight Orange

- there were early thermoformed paddle delamination issues … including Vatic. I haven’t heard any issues lately, and I played mine over 5 months and have had no issues. But … only indoor pickleball and don’t leave paddles in car.

- if delamination issue concerns you … get purple … they created Purple (after orange) without thermoformed welded edge … so delam shouldn’t ever happen.

- Purple will be more control than Orange … but you are coming from fiberglass so I don’t see you having control issue with Orange

Vatic paddles comparison chart

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0622/5461/2639/files/Vatic_Pro_Paddle_Comparison.pdf

 

[A_Instead]

Will go with orange..
I may go with the hybrid shape just to try something different..
As long as it doesn't feel short..
I need your advice here.. thanks

I do like faster feeling paddles..
I watched rackets and runners review video..

 

[ByeByePoly]

Will go with orange..
I may go with the hybrid shape just to try something different..
As long as it doesn't feel short..
I need your advice here.. thanks

I do like faster feeling paddles..
I watched rackets and runners review video..

I really like Luca Berg’s (rackets and runners) because that Canadian is a tennis brother … he thinks like us. One thing you have to factor in is he seems to play mainly pickleball singles, and pickleball doubles is a completely different game.

The Flash is 1/4” shorter than the V7 … and yet feels much shorter than then the V7 … I have no explanation for that. But … I’m not the first to say that. I adjusted quickly past that shorter thought and it’s a non-factor now. I can hit tip of paddle/edge guard with any paddle.

If you are talking shorter grip … I find I need to put off hand index finger behind the paddle face. I posted somewhere that I actually prefer that now with a paddle … particularly 2hbh dinking, 3rd shot drop … maybe not so much on baseline drives. But bottom line … even if both your hands fit on the Franklin, not likely on any Vatic. I don’t have big hands and mine do not.

 

[kreative]

Is it me... but is the Vatic naming conventions confusing?
Perhaps I am just dense...

So are you recommending me the Purple or Orange decal v7?
Which have the similar shape to my FBJ..

The orange Vatic Pro V7: https://vaticpro.com/products/v7-carbon-fiber-16mm

 

[kreative]

I really like Luca Berg’s (rackets and runners) because that Canadian is a tennis brother … he thinks like us. One thing you have to factor in is he seems to play mainly pickleball singles, and pickleball doubles is a completely different game.

The Flash is 1/4” shorter than the V7 … and yet feels much shorter than then the V7 … I have no explanation for that. But … I’m not the first to say that. I adjusted quickly past that shorter thought and it’s a non-factor now. I can hit tip of paddle/edge guard with any paddle.

If you are talking shorter grip … I find I need to put off hand index finger behind the paddle face. I posted somewhere that I actually prefer that now with a paddle … particularly 2hbh dinking, 3rd shot drop … maybe not so much on baseline drives. But bottom line … even if both your hands fit on the Franklin, not likely on any Vatic. I don’t have big hands and mine do not.

I don't have issues with a 2-hander on the Vatic (I would say my hands are average size) although I only hit it situationally. Something I'm kind of working on incorporating more into my game, but still feel more comfortable 1-handed currently. As an aside, I do hit a 2-handed backhand in tennis.

 

[kreative]

I just posted this in other thread … $20 off also on Pro Flash:

fyi … Vatic Pro V7 $20 off on Vatic Website … $139.99 $119.99 … and I assume you can still get another $10 off with code. $109 … good timing. Also … when you buy on Vatic website vs Amazon you can request weight preference.

V7 will be your easier transition … and if you have been good to go at kitchen with Franklin you will be with V7. V7 swing weight of 120ish is lower end for 16.5” extended paddles, also good balanced paddle … so might even pick up some kitchen hand speed over Franklin. One other consideration … I find the V7 sweet spot more forgiving than Flashes, but all good.

The only reason to move to Flashes imo … and the reason I did … is if you needed the hand speed improvement at kitchen (I did). My guess is many doubles only players (most of us) will be moving to hybrid shape … we will see.

I will be curious if you like the Vatic of your choosing. Be warned … starts out innocently with one paddle … ends in three more Vatics and a bag.

Wow, what a deal...may be time to stock up some more!

 

[ByeByePoly]

I don't have issues with a 2-hander on the Vatic (I would say my hands are average size) although I only hit it situationally. Something I'm kind of working on incorporating more into my game, but still feel more comfortable 1-handed currently. As an aside, I do hit a 2-handed backhand in tennis.

We sound like we are at similar learning curve place.

Adding the 2hbh very late in my tennis has created a problem in pickleball … choices. I consider myself lucky in hindsight that I had only the 1hbh in tennis until near the end. I’m where you are … working out where to go with 2hbh.

As it stands now:

- 1hbh flat - default baseline drive
- 1hbh slice - default ros
- 1hbh - default volley
- 1hbh - default dink other than 2hbh cc dink unless 1hbh needed for reach

- 2hbh ros occasionally to mix it up
- 2hbh swing volley from transition occasionally … I put this one at the top of what needs to become my go to … hard after so many years of 1hbh s&v
- 2hbh default cross court 3rd shot ts drop from left/ad side … I was pretty lethal with tennis 1hbh drop, but I never think 1hbh slice 3rd shot drop, maybe I should

I have noticed against better players topspin doesn’t gain you much on ros (other than keep it in ). Seems like my main thought/goal in rec play should be to make the servers 3rd shot drive or drop the most difficult. Topspin just makes the wiffle bounce a little higher … low slice seems to make opponent make more errors on 3rd shot. So at this point … other than just enjoying hitting 2hbh ros … I would put that low on the list of improving play/results. I put 2hbh swing volley from transition at the top, and also from kitchen when it’s presented to me with enough time and spacing. I intend to stick with 1hbh volley on most volleys at body … no Anna Leigh matrix slide to the right for me.

What other ares do you think 2hbh would be good? I guess 3rd shot drive choice depends on player’s best backhand. For me … it also depends on bounce and reach … for those stretched and low … I need to hit 1hbh.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Wow, what a deal...may be time to stock up some more!

I didn’t think about getting my own light Vatic Pro Flash 16mm for $109 … one I could experiment with weighting up without messing up wife’s paddle. Honest … didn’t occur to me.

 

[A_Instead]

I visited a big Tennis and Pickleball supplier today in Reading PA..
I didn't get to demo anything, but I did see many paddles to get an idea of grip sizes..as well as hybrid shapes and lengths of paddles..
The best feeling grip was the Engage MX Pursuit 6.0 Pro as it was nearly identical feeling to a tennis racket..the paddle also felt very good in hand.
But I wanted to see how others felt in hand..
I know this is a Vatic thread and I want to respect that... But anyone have an experience and comments regarding the Gamma Obsidian or the Engage MX Pursuit 6.0 Pro.?
You can DM me here..
Many thanks in advance..
A...

 

[ByeByePoly]

I visited a big Tennis and Pickleball supplier today in Reading PA..
I didn't get to demo anything, but I did see many paddles to get an idea of grip sizes..as well as hybrid shapes and lengths of paddles..
The best feeling grip was the Engage MX Pursuit 6.0 Pro as it was nearly identical feeling to a tennis racket..the paddle also felt very good in hand.
But I wanted to see how others felt in hand..
I know this is a Vatic thread and I want to respect that... But anyone have an experience and comments regarding the Gamma Obsidian or the Engage MX Pursuit 6.0 Pro.?
You can DM me here..
Many thanks in advance..
A...

Nah … not a just a Vatic thread … more of a paddle addiction thread.