Vegan Burger's Dominance....Meat is dead!

Pistol10

Professional
I think that they sell what the consumer wants. And the consumer apparently wants bad burgers at the given price point.

I note this as McDonalds is almost $200/share near all-time-highs as the markets are selling off hard.
Consumers are looking for cheap & bad quality, just a good quality for reasonable price, unfortunately, options are rare.

McDonald's = Great marketing!
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
Tofurkey Sausages are quite good. They've been around for a long time. It's a first generation product though.

Imagine being able to sequence dinosaur DNA and then being able to assemble plant proteins to approximate it.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
WSJ: Europe Sticks a Knife in Vegan Meat

The trading bloc’s agriculture committee wants to ban vegan food products from using terms such as burger and sausage on their labels. The logic is that consumers expect their burgers to be made of pork or beef and will be duped by plant-based pretenders.

More likely the region’s livestock industry smells danger. Meat-alternative products made by companies like Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods appeal to a growing number of consumers that want to cut down on meat. A high-profile report from the EAT-Lancet Commission warned that red-meat consumption needs to halve by 2050 to avoid serious health and environmental problems.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/europe-sticks-a-knife-into-vegan-meat-11557747070?mod=hp_lead_pos8
Yeah I think the dairy industry has objected to Almond Milk and the like in the same way.

I am going to sue them for using Cheese Burger, implying it is a vegetarian product.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Looks like it is only the beef farmers who are imposing themselves on others, but they will pretend to be the victims of "political correctness." These guys just want the status quo of their money and power, and then turn around and accuse others of victimizing them.

They are not even the hardy types of the past. They operate highly mechanized farms and have even started putting RFID on cattle and tracking them with an app. They are all computer savvy. Quite different from their ancestors who did this on a small sustainable scale and lived the tough life.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I think that the issue on fat is saturated fats; not fats overall.

I think that the Impossible Burger uses soy protein but I don't know if this is the problem with soy in general or if soy protein is fine. At any rate, these two companies can redesign the ingredients if they want to or need to. If soy is a problem, they can come up with another plant protein. There's nothing stopping them from producing a low-sodium product in the future. These guys are just getting started. Morningstar Farms has a whole section in our frozen food sections. I think that they had something like 15 different products on display.

I agree that the beef industry is very worried. I think that most people are looking at these new foods with a bit of derision right now but I could see all kinds of meats being synthesized with a variety of benefit.
Yeah but I think it is far off. My wife asked me to bring her the Beyond Meat burger from Carls Jr, but when I thought about it, I did not feel like going back again. In other words, the BM was a passable thing, but did not make me crave to go back.

It may have a small market, but like vegan foods, the problem is that outside India there is no knowledge of how to make vegetarian and vegan food taste good. It was due to the influence of Buddhism and Jainism (and not Hinduism as many people think). It is not that it is a great secret: without oil, cream, sugar and salt, the traditional Indian home cooking is not appealing to the palate of the younger generation. But at least there is something to play with. No other place has even figured out a semi-decent vegetarian cuisine.
 

Crocodile

Hall of Fame
A burger should in my opinion should have beef, lettuce, tomato, onion and beetroot with some sauce on some hot buns, not some rubbery soy product.
A soy burger should not be allowed to be called a burger, it needs a name all of its own. Call it a soy boy roll.
It's like milk, almond, coconut and soy drinks are not milk, milk comes from cows, camels or goats. Say no to Soy.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
A burger should in my opinion should have beef, lettuce, tomato, onion and beetroot with some sauce on some hot buns, not some rubbery soy product.
A soy burger should not be allowed to be called a burger, it needs a name all of its own. Call it a soy boy roll.
It's like milk, almond, coconut and soy drinks are not milk, milk comes from cows, camels or goats. Say no to Soy.
That is not correct. You don't decide what is correct. Hamburger is the correct term for a beef burger. Burger is more generic.

burger
noun
a hamburger.
a food patty, or patty on a bun, containing ingredients other than beef:veggie or turkey burgers.
 

Ronaldo

Talk Tennis Guru
In the 70s soy was added to beef as an extender. It made the concoction dry IMO and pretty incredible. Burger, no grease. Where did it go? A Good Burger ifyouwill
 

Crocodile

Hall of Fame
That is not correct. You don't decide what is correct. Hamburger is the correct term for a beef burger. Burger is more generic.

burger
noun
a hamburger.
a food patty, or patty on a bun, containing ingredients other than beef:veggie or turkey burgers.
I am deciding and I'm going to ban soy from being used in conjunction with the term burger and soy as milk as well, it's not milk.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I am deciding and I'm going to ban soy from being used in conjunction with the term burger and soy as milk as well, it's not milk.
You are wrong about milk too

Definition of milk
(Entry 1 of 4)
1a: a fluid secreted by the mammary glands of females for the nourishment of their young
b(1): milk from an animal and especially a cow used as food by people
(2): a food product produced from seeds or fruit that resembles and is used similarly to cow's milkcoconut milksoy milk
 

Crocodile

Hall of Fame
You are wrong about milk too

Definition of milk
(Entry 1 of 4)
1a: a fluid secreted by the mammary glands of females for the nourishment of their young
b(1): milk from an animal and especially a cow used as food by people
(2): a food product produced from seeds or fruit that resembles and is used similarly to cow's milkcoconut milksoy milk
No I'm not, the term milk in conjunction with soy, almond, cashew and coconut is going to be banned here in Australia and be replaced with terms like soy extract beverage. Almond milk for example has none of the nutrients that dairy milk has including very low protein levels which is bad.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
No I'm not, the term milk in conjunction with soy, almond, cashew and coconut is going to be banned here in Australia and be replaced with terms like soy extract beverage. Almond milk for example has none of the nutrients that dairy milk has including very low protein levels which is bad.
Almond milk has 25% of the protein as cow's milk, but soy milk has 88%. So you are wrong once again.

Stop being wrong all the time and drink this:

Australia’s Own almond milk gives you all the benefits of organic almonds. With only pure and simple ingredients, you can enjoy knowing that our almond milk is delicious and good for you – with no cane sugar, no gluten and no lactose.

Enjoy it in your favourite smoothie or recipe, for a snack loaded with nutrition.

Available at selected Independent supermarkets.
 

Crocodile

Hall of Fame
Almond milk has 25% of the protein as cow's milk, but soy milk has 88%. So you are wrong once again.

Stop being wrong all the time and drink this:

Australia’s Own almond milk gives you all the benefits of organic almonds. With only pure and simple ingredients, you can enjoy knowing that our almond milk is delicious and good for you – with no cane sugar, no gluten and no lactose.

Enjoy it in your favourite smoothie or recipe, for a snack loaded with nutrition.

Available at selected Independent supermarkets.
Soy has been fortified with calcium and protein but the other alternatives are very low in protein and rice milk which is probably the worst is just flavoured water. These milk alternatives are very low in calcium and protein because that's how vegans want it.
Long term use of alternative milks will cause osteo degeneration in older age so Suresh if you want to keep playing tennis without your bones becoming brittle and breaking in old age drink milk produced by female mammal unless you have a severe allergy and you cannot tolerate dairy. In that case soy is your next best option but most nutritionists do not recommend this to men
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Soy has been fortified with calcium and protein but the other alternatives are very low in protein and rice milk which is probably the worst is just flavoured water. These milk alternatives are very low in calcium and protein because that's how vegans want it.
Long term use of alternative milks will cause osteo degeneration in older age so Suresh if you want to keep playing tennis without your bones becoming brittle and breaking in old age drink milk produced by female mammal unless you have a severe allergy and you cannot tolerate dairy. In that case soy is your next best option but most nutritionists do not recommend this to men
I only drink cow's milk lol.

I just wanted to expand your horizons.
 

kramer woodie

Professional
I find it amusing, that no one seems to know their history. At the end of the Second World War (1945) people were by a large number short of height.

We had tennis players Laver, Roswell, and Segura all well under 6 feet tall. The furniture of that time was design for a average height of 5 foot 9 inch.

With the entry of more beef and milk into the marketplace it was common to find reports of better health and people getting taller. As more high grade protein became widely available humans became bigger, taller, faster, and stronger. Today, some complain about serve-bots having an unfair advantage. Old athletic records were broken in all sports.

So, it would seem to me that veggie protein has always been available to the masses, but high grade fish, beef, and chicken protein was too expensive and less readily available. I seem to remember a guy called FDR saying, "I promise you a chicken in every pot".

The veggie, vegan, no meat of any kind has always just been a fade (kinda of like take. this pill to live longer be stronger etc.). It is now become a main stream fade as humans do not want to face their mortality. I ask why is it that countries who uplift their economic standards always start to
consume more Reel Beef? In many cases they had fish and chicken as their main protein source.

Aloha
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
So, it would seem to me that veggie protein has always been available to the masses, but high grade fish, beef, and chicken protein was too expensive and less readily available. I seem to remember a guy called FDR saying, "I promise you a chicken in every pot".
Were protein isolates available in the past? Or did people just eat some plants that were high in protein?

What are the main protein sources for bodybuilders today? Do they come from fish, beef and chicken? Or do they come from milk, soy and peas?
 

kramer woodie

Professional
Were protein isolates available in the past? Or did people just eat some plants that were high in protein?

What are the main protein sources for bodybuilders today? Do they come from fish, beef and chicken? Or do they come from milk, soy and peas?
I remember peas from an early young boy, mom said eat your peas. The darn things would not stay on the fork, plus they tasted awful and were boring.

As for bodybuilding, I quit that in the 70s when people claimed I was too big and it made my head look small. 52 inches in the chest, 31 inch waist,
16 inch biceps, did 150 pound single leg extensions, 360 pound bench press, and a 1000 real sit ups (not crunches) on a slant board followed by
a vertical slant board lifting my feet over my head to touch the wall over my head behind me.

What did I eat? To start the day, 8 ounces of raw mike with a raw egg and protein powder, blended. Lunch, albacore 2 cans with a side and O.J..
Dinner, 2 skinless chicken breasts broiled with a romaine salad w/oil & vinegar and a baked potato. 3 days a week a New York steak medium rare
with the same salad and baked potato.

My height at the time 6 foot 4 inch, weight 219 pounds. Solid muscle. Use to use my girlfriend to do bicep curls, lifting her up to kiss her bellybutton. Really was not all that big of a deal, she only weighed 123 pounds at 5 foot 9 inches, but she seem to get a kick out of my doing it. Plus, it led to other things for a better cardio work out.

O' another thing, that diet led to being regular.

Aloha
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
I remember peas from an early young boy, mom said eat your peas. The darn things would not stay on the fork, plus they tasted awful and were boring.

As for bodybuilding, I quit that in the 70s when people claimed I was too big and it made my head look small. 52 inches in the chest, 31 inch waist,
16 inch biceps, did 150 pound single leg extensions, 360 pound bench press, and a 1000 real sit ups (not crunches) on a slant board followed by
a vertical slant board lifting my feet over my head to touch the wall over my head behind me.

What did I eat? To start the day, 8 ounces of raw mike with a raw egg and protein powder, blended. Lunch, albacore 2 cans with a side and O.J..
Dinner, 2 skinless chicken breasts broiled with a romaine salad w/oil & vinegar and a baked potato. 3 days a week a New York steak medium rare
with the same salad and baked potato.

My height at the time 6 foot 4 inch, weight 219 pounds. Solid muscle. Use to use my girlfriend to do bicep curls, lifting her up to kiss her bellybutton. Really was not all that big of a deal, she only weighed 123 pounds at 5 foot 9 inches, but she seem to get a kick out of my doing it. Plus, it led to other things for a better cardio work out.

O' another thing, that diet led to being regular.

Aloha
Well, that's anecdotal.

What are the main protein sources for bodybuilders today?
 

Ronaldo

Talk Tennis Guru
Were protein isolates available in the past? Or did people just eat some plants that were high in protein?

What are the main protein sources for bodybuilders today? Do they come from fish, beef and chicken? Or do they come from milk, soy and peas?
Kidney beans
 

smoledman

G.O.A.T.
Soy has been fortified with calcium and protein but the other alternatives are very low in protein and rice milk which is probably the worst is just flavoured water. These milk alternatives are very low in calcium and protein because that's how vegans want it.
Long term use of alternative milks will cause osteo degeneration in older age so Suresh if you want to keep playing tennis without your bones becoming brittle and breaking in old age drink milk produced by female mammal unless you have a severe allergy and you cannot tolerate dairy. In that case soy is your next best option but most nutritionists do not recommend this to men
Well there is a reason we call them soyboys with brittle bones at age 40. Real men eat meat.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I find it amusing, that no one seems to know their history. At the end of the Second World War (1945) people were by a large number short of height.

We had tennis players Laver, Roswell, and Segura all well under 6 feet tall. The furniture of that time was design for a average height of 5 foot 9 inch.

With the entry of more beef and milk into the marketplace it was common to find reports of better health and people getting taller. As more high grade protein became widely available humans became bigger, taller, faster, and stronger. Today, some complain about serve-bots having an unfair advantage. Old athletic records were broken in all sports.

So, it would seem to me that veggie protein has always been available to the masses, but high grade fish, beef, and chicken protein was too expensive and less readily available. I seem to remember a guy called FDR saying, "I promise you a chicken in every pot".

The veggie, vegan, no meat of any kind has always just been a fade (kinda of like take. this pill to live longer be stronger etc.). It is now become a main stream fade as humans do not want to face their mortality. I ask why is it that countries who uplift their economic standards always start to
consume more Reel Beef? In many cases they had fish and chicken as their main protein source.

Aloha
Per capita beef consumption in the US has been declining since 1976, so what are you talking about? By your logic, Isner should be shorter than JMac.
 

Sudacafan

G.O.A.T.
Vegan Burger's Dominance....Meat is dead!

I just took a deeper look at this thread title.
I think that meat is normally dead when you eat it, so that’s kind of obvious.
Does anyone here eat alive meat? If so, could he or she share the experience with us?
 

kramer woodie

Professional
Well, that's anecdotal.

What are the main protein sources for bodybuilders today?
Doping. Go into any GNC read the labels of listed chemicals. Should answer your question. Also, gender dysphoria, even though individuals have been gelded, that which is cut off remains inside them where that which was cut off came from. Fortunately , the weight lifting association will not
recognize any records set by them.

Those who dope always are one step ahead of the law enforcement, but the laws always catch up, but by that time something new is being used to
enhance performance.

Aloha
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
With the entry of more beef and milk into the marketplace it was common to find reports of better health and people getting taller. As more high grade protein became widely available humans became bigger, taller, faster, and stronger. Today, some complain about serve-bots having an unfair advantage. Old athletic records were broken in all sports.
Carefully done research shows that each generation in the US is on average an inch taller than the preceding generation NOT because of diet but because of selective breeding. Women are not only more likely to choose taller men to have children with, but taller men have tended to have larger families, i.e. more children, than shorter men. So genes favoring greater height are being more widely propagated in the population.
 

kramer woodie

Professional
Vegan Burger's Dominance....Meat is dead!

I just took a deeper look at this thread title.
I think that meat is normally dead when you eat it, so that’s kind of obvious.
Does anyone here eat alive meat? If so, could he or she share the experience with us?
Ah, sushi raw fish (plus other seafood)...chinese live drunken shrimp (qiang xia) with bailie to wash it down...or odori ebi...and caviar with Roederer
Cristal to wash the caviar down. There are many raw edible proteins from around the world. Should I mention monkey brain or snake bile in Snake
Alley in Taipei?

Aloha
 

Bartelby

Talk Tennis Guru
There's a lot of Chinese and they like to eat. If they returned to the days of the Great Leap Forward we could save the world. But that would be a bit rude.

Thx to China ...almost every endangered species on earth will be extinct soon
 

Bartelby

Talk Tennis Guru
There is some good news, however:

A new report from the Centers for Disease Control shows that a small decrease in life expectancy, from 78.7 to 78.6 years, is part of a continuing trend. Even as we make progress treating cancer, heart disease, and stroke—three of the biggest killers—we’re losing ground on other fronts and have been since 2014. That makes this continuous decline unlike anything we've seen since World War I and the Spanish influenza, which both happened between 1915 and 1918.

Carefully done research shows that each generation in the US is on average an inch taller than the preceding generation NOT because of diet but because of selective breeding. Women are not only more likely to choose taller men to have children with, but taller men have tended to have larger families, i.e. more children, than shorter men. So genes favoring greater height are being more widely propagated in the population.
 
There's a lot of Chinese and they like to eat. If they returned to the days of the Great Leap Forward we could save the world. But that would be a bit rude.
The Chinese government actually initiated a campaign encouraging people to eat less meat, as they realize they don't have the farmable land and water resources to raise the farm animals demanded, don't want to rely on imports, and are concerned about an array of other problems including the environmental ramifications. The campaign was unsuccessful and meat consumption increased. They are looking into meat alternatives.
 

Bartelby

Talk Tennis Guru
The Chinese government has the kind of pedagogical zeal that you would expect from an authoritarian system with a technocratic side, so they invent solutions to problems that look good mainly on paper.

So why don't they want to rely on imports? They were happy to buy American soy beans before the tariff wars, and meat is something countries could supply at reasonable prices. Hi-tech exports can more than pay for red meat.

I could keep myself in red meat for three years for the cost of a high-end Huawei phone, so imagine what an export earner that is for China.

The Chinese government actually initiated a campaign encouraging people to eat less meat, as they realize they don't have the farmable land and water resources to raise the farm animals demanded, don't want to rely on imports, and are concerned about an array of other problems including the environmental ramifications. The campaign was unsuccessful and meat consumption increased. They are looking into meat alternatives.
 
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Sander001

Hall of Fame
It's important to realize that even reducing some meat consumption is helpful to the environment and personal health :)

We're not vegetarian or anything but my girlfriend makes veggie(vegan?) burgers sometimes and they're absolutely delicious, better tasting than 99% of any other burgers I've ever had :love:
 

Pistol10

Professional
veggie(vegan?)
Not sure if what you mean is there a difference. Well:

Vegan food: doesn't contain any food that is based on animal or animal derived products, like meats, dairy, eggs even honey!

Veggie referred to Vegetarian food: could have animal derived products but not meat.
 
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