Vegetarian Pros

Crisstti

Legend
Is there really a pressure nowadays? I don't see it. In fact, every magazine runs articles against it. Some old-timers in the US have told me that in the 60s, they had to eat meat when they went out with their colleagues in order to fit in, or else they would have to go through a long process of explanation. Today, it seems to be the opposite.
I think there is, yeah. For children anyway (and for the parents to feed them meet). People worry if they don't. I suppose it's probably different in India though.

With adults, probably not much. People are more like "interesting... what do you do about the protein though?".
You do have to go though a long process of explanation there usually too. Doesn't bother me though.
 

FreeBird

Legend
Is there really a pressure nowadays? I don't see it. In fact, every magazine runs articles against it. Some old-timers in the US have told me that in the 60s, they had to eat meat when they went out with their colleagues in order to fit in, or else they would have to go through a long process of explanation. Today, it seems to be the opposite.
Seriously? US has like 5 percent vegetarians. :lol: A group full of vegetarians? Bah.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Seriously? US has like 5 percent vegetarians. :lol: A group full of vegetarians? Bah.
I did not say that. I said nobody exerts any pressure any more. I don't even see that in schools where you would think there is peer pressure. I think it was there at one time, but now even kids don't care about it too much.
 

ivan_the_terrible

Hall of Fame
Many religions force people to become vegetarians - I should research that.

I've come across quite a few vegans who look down their noses at us omnivores, not to mention those that are borderline activists.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Many religions force people to become vegetarians - I should research that.

I've come across quite a few vegans who look down their noses at us omnivores, not to mention those that are borderline activists.
Most religions don't.

It is OK for vegans to look down on others. Why not? Today, non-smokers look down on smokers, and it is considered good. Fit people look down on obese people, and that has also become acceptable. These are not equal both ways - we don't accept smokers looking down on non-smokers. And "moral" people have always looked down on others and even attempt to impose their morals on everyone else. So yeah people who think of themselves as socially and environmentally responsible will look down on others. It is cool.
 

urundai

Professional
Seriously? US has like 5 percent vegetarians. :lol: A group full of vegetarians? Bah.
Actually, it's on the rise in US and I believe it's same in other parts of the traditional meat eating world. People used to roll their eyes with an incredulous 'how can you not eat meat?' when I mentioned I was vegetarian about 10 years back (when I moved to US) but now-a-days, it's not that much of a surprise.

You should excuse Suresh and I. We live in the hippy california, where more people tend to be abnormal (not eating meat being one of them).
 

ivan_the_terrible

Hall of Fame
Most religions don't.

It is OK for vegans to look down on others. Why not? Today, non-smokers look down on smokers, and it is considered good. Fit people look down on obese people, and that has also become acceptable. These are not equal both ways - we don't accept smokers looking down on non-smokers. And "moral" people have always looked down on others and even attempt to impose their morals on everyone else. So yeah people who think of themselves as socially and environmentally responsible will look down on others. It is cool.
Are vegans better than omnivores?
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Actually, it's on the rise in US and I believe it's same in other parts of the traditional meat eating world. People used to roll their eyes with an incredulous 'how can you not eat meat?' when I mentioned I was vegetarian about 10 years back (when I moved to US) but now-a-days, it's not that much of a surprise.

You should excuse Suresh and I. We live in the hippy california, where more people tend to be abnormal (not eating meat being one of them).
I have been to Texas many times and even in steak country, I found no pressure and neither have any of my relatives. People just don't care.
 

urundai

Professional
I have been to Texas many times and even in steak country, I found no pressure and neither have any of my relatives. People just don't care.
It's a recent thing though (last 6 or 7 years). I had been to mid west (especially small towns), Texas back in the 90s and invariably, being vegetarian is not something that most restaurants had even heard of (or thought of serving).

I still remember folks asking, 'chicken should be ok', followed by 'fish' and then 'not even eggs?' and ending with a 'wow' as if I had done something incredible :twisted:
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
It's a recent thing though (last 6 or 7 years). I had been to mid west (especially small towns), Texas back in the 90s and invariably, being vegetarian is not something that most restaurants had even heard of (or thought of serving).

I still remember folks asking, 'chicken should be ok', followed by 'fish' and then 'not even eggs?' and ending with a 'wow' as if I had done something incredible :twisted:
I am not talking of restaurants. They can serve only what is in demand. I am talking about just people here and there.
 

ivan_the_terrible

Hall of Fame
Most religions don't.

It is OK for vegans to look down on others. Why not? Today, non-smokers look down on smokers, and it is considered good. Fit people look down on obese people, and that has also become acceptable. These are not equal both ways - we don't accept smokers looking down on non-smokers. And "moral" people have always looked down on others and even attempt to impose their morals on everyone else. So yeah people who think of themselves as socially and environmentally responsible will look down on others. It is cool.
I suppose I should qualify that...I meant many variations of Hinduism (particularly) promote a vegan lifestyle. In fact core Hinduism frowns on meat-eating, many ceremonies do not serve meat. There's Buddhism also and Christians aren't supposed to eat meat on Fridays and especially Good Friday.

I suppose it's another way to control the masses, who knows?
 

ivan_the_terrible

Hall of Fame
Most religions don't.

It is OK for vegans to look down on others. Why not? Today, non-smokers look down on smokers, and it is considered good. Fit people look down on obese people, and that has also become acceptable. These are not equal both ways - we don't accept smokers looking down on non-smokers. And "moral" people have always looked down on others and even attempt to impose their morals on everyone else. So yeah people who think of themselves as socially and environmentally responsible will look down on others. It is cool.
I'm amazed at the amount of overweight vegans out there including the new-wave "gluten-free" throngs.
 

FreeBird

Legend
I suppose I should qualify that...I meant many variations of Hinduism (particularly) promote a vegan lifestyle. In fact core Hinduism frowns on meat-eating, many ceremonies do not serve meat. There's Buddhism also and Christians aren't supposed to eat meat on Fridays and especially Good Friday.

I suppose it's another way to control the masses, who knows?
No. But you are looking for a religion which prohibits meat eating? Jainism is your answer. So what?
 

sportsfan1

Hall of Fame
But what do you order if you are a vegetarian? See if they have the V8 Fusion juice? ;-)
Seriously, the menu choices get rather limited.
 

fatichar

Rookie
I sometimes suspect you have come from the future.

Tell us more about it, wise sage.


Too lazy to search and post, but meat has already been grown in lab. But probably from an existing piece of real meat. And it's super expensive as of now. Search lab grown meat.
 

fatichar

Rookie
I suppose I should qualify that...I meant many variations of Hinduism (particularly) promote a vegan lifestyle. In fact core Hinduism frowns on meat-eating, many ceremonies do not serve meat. There's Buddhism also and Christians aren't supposed to eat meat on Fridays and especially Good Friday.





I suppose it's another way to control the masses, who knows?


Buddhism is an interesting case. Gautam Buddha advocated 'no harm to living beings'. Buddhists are not supposed to kill animals for food. Nor accept an animal being killed for them. BUT, the monks have to accept whatever is offered to them, including any kind of meat.

In reality, I think Buddhist countries are the most carnivorous on earth! Even they religious leaders like Dalai Lama, can't live without meat.
 

urundai

Professional
Except for the Bengali ones. Their the gods are also offered non veg.



Also, in past live animals were burnt in Yagya
I thought some bengali functions still sacrifice animals, don't they? I know it's a common thing in rural villages to sacrifice goats - hate to post the image - you can go to commons dot wikimedia dot org/wiki/File:Sacrificial_goat.JPG to see what I mean:confused:
 

urundai

Professional
BTW, according to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country), about 31% of indians are vegetarians. Many countries are not far behind (US at 13%, 8 to 10% in many countries) and increasing in recent years.

Netherlands seems to have lowest % of vegans (0.1%) though I suspect India is not far behind. Most, if not all, Indians are lacto vegetarians and not strict vegans.
 

TheNatural

G.O.A.T.
On the Carl lewis Wiki page it says "Lewis is a vegan and attributes his best performances in 1991 to his switching to a vegan diet."

It seems that most top athletes that switch to being vegan etc say that they performed great before despite the crap they ate before, not because of the crap they ate before but that their body performed better after switching to a more nutritious vegan diet.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
Buddhism is an interesting case. Gautam Buddha advocated 'no harm to living beings'. Buddhists are not supposed to kill animals for food. Nor accept an animal being killed for them. BUT, the monks have to accept whatever is offered to them, including any kind of meat.

In reality, I think Buddhist countries are the most carnivorous on earth! Even they religious leaders like Dalai Lama, can't live without meat.
I can;t speak for all the Buddhist countries but my guess is that the Dalai Lama comes from Tibet which is a desert. Typically, the kind of stuff that grows in a high-altitude desert cannot be digested by humans, so the only option is to eat the animal who can eat those plants or grass or whatever.

I once read the Dalai Lama saying that they try to minimize the killing ... like they would kill one large animal and eat it for a month, rather than kill several small ones etc.

As far as the other far eastern countries are concerned maybe someone from there should offer insights.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
Most religions don't.

It is OK for vegans to look down on others. Why not? Today, non-smokers look down on smokers, and it is considered good. Fit people look down on obese people, and that has also become acceptable. These are not equal both ways - we don't accept smokers looking down on non-smokers. And "moral" people have always looked down on others and even attempt to impose their morals on everyone else. So yeah people who think of themselves as socially and environmentally responsible will look down on others. It is cool.
haha, i see you have a personal grouse !

I had the opposite here, being slim/lean and being looked down by the overweight "well-fed" North-Indian/Punjabi society here.

I think as far as "imposing morals" is concerned, anyone (almost) with an ideology (or even strong opinion) tries to impose it on others. You can just see this forum as an example.

I come from an atheist family, and almost everyone looks down at me, not only for not being an atheist, but also for being a vegetarian. It works both ways, and I have never imposed or ever judged them.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I thought some bengali functions still sacrifice animals, don't they? I know it's a common thing in rural villages to sacrifice goats - hate to post the image - you can go to commons dot wikimedia dot org/wiki/File:Sacrificial_goat.JPG to see what I mean:confused:
That is probably very very rare now. It used to more common in the old days in Bengal and Asom. When I had visited Asom as a kid, A guy brought lambs on the bus for slaughter at a a temple. They are a relic of Tantric practices of the past.
 

fatichar

Rookie
I can;t speak for all the Buddhist countries but my guess is that the Dalai Lama comes from Tibet which is a desert. Typically, the kind of stuff that grows in a high-altitude desert cannot be digested by humans, so the only option is to eat the animal who can eat those plants or grass or whatever.

I once read the Dalai Lama saying that they try to minimize the killing ... like they would kill one large animal and eat it for a month, rather than kill several small ones etc.

As far as the other far eastern countries are concerned maybe someone from there should offer insights.


Dalai stay in India now. He can very easily abandon meat altogether.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Dalai stay in India now. He can very easily abandon meat altogether.
http://samvidbeauty.com/2013/02/a-lesson-from-the-dalai-lama-on-meat-eating/

In the following CNN interview Piers Morgan asks the Dalai Lama about his eating habits.

MORGAN: Your Holiness, I want to get into your life and the kind of lifestyle that you lead because you’re a fascinating man in many ways. First of all, you were a vegetarian. But then you got bored with that and went back to meat. Is that right?

DALAI LAMA: Yes, right. Of course, my early part of my life as in — under Tibetan, you see, our main diet non-vegetarian. Then after I came to India, 65, I give up eating meat and eggs and fish. Pure vegetarian. So, next, about 20 months, I remain that. Then some illness. The gallbladder, jaundice problem. So, I — my sort of face become yellow. And nails and eyes become yellow. So later, I jokingly telling people, at that time, I truly become living Buddha.

(LAUGHTER) DALAI LAMA: Yellow, yellow person.

(LAUGHTER) DALAI LAMA: So I really making sort of — making effort to promote vegetarianism, but I myself remain non-vegetarian.

Many leap to the conclusion that the Dalai Lama is hypocritical in his actions of eating meat, but looking a bit deeper you will find that is not the case. Living in Tibet is quite different from many other places in the world where meat alternatives, fruits, and vegetables are wildly available. The Tibetan high altitude environment is also not conducive for sustaining fresh crops, and as it is now, the Tibetans include meat in their diet as a means of survival. Many monasteries that opt for the vegetarian lifestyle take measures to import their foods to sustain their eating habits.

The evidence shows again and again that eating a vegetarian or vegan diet is healthy and an optimal way to eat, but some cultures may not be as up to date on this information or able to eat in this fashion. It may also be that the knowledge of Tibetan doctors is outdated when it comes to eating a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle, “Turns out the Dalai Lama tried strict vegetarianism for a year and a half in the 1960s and developed hepatitis, at which point his doctors advised him to go back to his omnivorous ways. (He’s been criticized by some in the vegetarian community for having been an unhealthy vegetarian, possibly damaging his liver that way—he subsisted on a high-fat diet of mostly nuts and milk—and thus the medical necessity of his meat-eating has been questioned.)”

The Dalai Lama still eats meat but limits his intake, in other words he does the best he can. At the same time he plays a critical role in advocating for animal rights and welfare. He has worked with the Exile Tibetan Government to create “non-violent and environment-friendly farming practices” for a small scale farming industry. He has given speeches about ending animal experiments, has openly criticized factory farms, written letters opposing businesses that use harmful slaughtering practices, and talks freely about how vegetarianism is a positive way for people to live.
 

pound cat

G.O.A.T.
I think there is, yeah. For children anyway (and for the parents to feed them meet). People worry if they don't. I suppose it's probably different in India though.

With adults, probably not much. People are more like "interesting... what do you do about the protein though?".
You do have to go though a long process of explanation there usually too. Doesn't bother me though.
Half of Indians are vegetarians and have been for thousands of years. Vegetarians get complete protein by eating rice and various kinds of beans and lentals etc. Indian food = great food. mmmm
 
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fatichar

Rookie
Half of Indians are vegetarians and have been for thousands of years. Vegetarians get complete protein by eating rice and various kinds of beans and lentals etc. Indian food = great food. mmmm


Just for info, rice doesn't contain much protein.
 

OTMPut

Hall of Fame
I'm amazed at the amount of overweight vegans out there including the new-wave "gluten-free" throngs.
This is a common phrase among meat eaters, especially the paleo crowd.

Well, the meat eating obese vastly out number the vegan obese.

Most of the time the vegan obese are actually vegetarian obese I.e. The people who eat dairy. It is difficult to get junk in vegan as most junk has some form dairy in it.
 
I don't know ANY vegetarians that eat that crap. I think I read somewhere that Venus is or was a vegan.
I used to. Still eat mostly carbs, just monitor the amount and play a good amount of tennis. Plan on trying to become vegan after college, but unsure I can survive. I don't know where in America people have felt pressure to be vegetarian. Everywhere you go it seems to be "how preachy of you to not eat meat in front of me due to animal cruelty. lol worth it because bacon" for me. Being a male in American south may be a part of this.


On topic, did we ever get anywhere as to pros that were? Shame Fed isn't anymore.
 

Crisstti

Legend
^^ A guy called Peter Burwash is a vegetarian and used to be too when he was a tennis player it seems.

Too lazy to search and post, but meat has already been grown in lab. But probably from an existing piece of real meat. And it's super expensive as of now. Search lab grown meat.
Yeah, I've read about that too.

So i was wondering, if u only eat eggs and tofu as your "meat" it's allright for a sportman ?
I think so, yeah.

This is a common phrase among meat eaters, especially the paleo crowd.

Well, the meat eating obese vastly out number the vegan obese.

Most of the time the vegan obese are actually vegetarian obese I.e. The people who eat dairy. It is difficult to get junk in vegan as most junk has some form dairy in it.
Well, you can eat a lot of fries :). And if you eat lots of bread, pasta, I guess you would be overweight.
 

OTMPut

Hall of Fame
Well, you can eat a lot of fries :). And if you eat lots of bread, pasta, I guess you would be overweight.
Fries in the usual fast food places are fried in beef fat.
So if you are a vegan, you would not touch them and eat soem quality fries. Potatos are quality food.

You cannot eat jsut any bread. It is difficult to find bread that does not have milk powder. The ones that dont have are usually whole grain breads and trust me you cannot get obese on them.

Same with Pasta. How many restaurants serve egg-free pasta without any cheese?

But vegetarians will gobble all those stuff. And yes they can get fat.
 

Crisstti

Legend
Fries in the usual fast food places are fried in beef fat.
So if you are a vegan, you would not touch them and eat soem quality fries. Potatos are quality food.

You cannot eat jsut any bread. It is difficult to find bread that does not have milk powder. The ones that dont have are usually whole grain breads and trust me you cannot get obese on them.

Same with Pasta. How many restaurants serve egg-free pasta without any cheese?

But vegetarians will gobble all those stuff. And yes they can get fat.
I don't think that is the case over here actually. Just low quality and many times used oil!. I usually eat home made food anyway.

Pasta over here has usually no eggs. I know that's not the case everywhere.

About bread I agree. But at least I am not quite so strict with it.

I never watch my weight so I'm sure it's hard to get over-weight on a vegan diet, but there was an over-weight girl in an animal rights group I used to work with, so it can happen... and I'm thinking lots of fried stuff, pasta and bread are the explanation. And sugar.
 

tipsa...don'tlikehim!

Talk Tennis Guru
I just remembered, my wife's uncle is vegetarian, yet he looks a bit fat.
Chinese noodles are fat, sauces in general are fat when it contains oil, milk if you don't go for fat free milk...the yolks of the egg...
also avocado is the only vegetable that is a bit fat.
 

OTMPut

Hall of Fame
I just remembered, my wife's uncle is vegetarian, yet he looks a bit fat.
but there was an over-weight girl in an animal rights group I used to work with, so it can happen...
Diet is just one of many variables that goes into being "fat" or "obese". I dont claim being one becomes thin automatically after becoming vegan.
There are fat people following all kinds of food principles.
There are far more meat eating fat/obese people than the entire population of vegetarians.

I just dont buy the argument that vegetarians are fat.
Unhealthy lifestyles and in some cases harmonal issues lead to obesity, even if you eat meat.
 

Crisstti

Legend
Diet is just one of many variables that goes into being "fat" or "obese". I dont claim being one becomes thin automatically after becoming vegan.
There are fat people following all kinds of food principles.
There are far more meat eating fat/obese people than the entire population of vegetarians.

I just dont buy the argument that vegetarians are fat.
Unhealthy lifestyles and in some cases harmonal issues lead to obesity, even if you eat meat.
Oh, definitely! :)
 

Crisstti

Legend
Most religions don't.

It is OK for vegans to look down on others. Why not? Today, non-smokers look down on smokers, and it is considered good. Fit people look down on obese people, and that has also become acceptable. These are not equal both ways - we don't accept smokers looking down on non-smokers. And "moral" people have always looked down on others and even attempt to impose their morals on everyone else. So yeah people who think of themselves as socially and environmentally responsible will look down on others. It is cool.
It is a thin line, to stand your ground but not be judgmental and self-righteous.

Btw, interesting info about the Dalai Lama. I had read that he had gotten sick while being vegetarian, but didn't know the details. So it seems like he followed a poor diet.
 
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