Velocity/Cream

Discussion in 'Strings' started by Traffic, Nov 1, 2017.

  1. Znak

    Znak Rookie

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    Interesting! And on a fb of V you had no problems on the wrist? Just did quick RT test and I only lost 3lbs and that includes the static loss from the stringing so that's good! Very curious about Tec HDX, haven't ordered a set yet, looking forward to your thoughts!

    Hahah, I should! :D
     
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  2. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    Nothing hurt for the entire summer with fb v ... which is saying something considering it followed TE bad enough to lose 8 months of tennis (matches ... couldn't serve until Spring of last year). I was hitting full serves all summer ... not one twinge. As far as I'm concerned V must be about as arm friendly as it gets. I hit fb gut ... and I know gut is suppose to be the best, but my arm liked V.

    I really have never had wrist pain from tennis. The only time I can remember wrist soreness was once hitting old balls with ball machine and rpm blast with too many hours on it. That was also one of the rare times I had shoulder soreness. Poly ....
     
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  3. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    I can put any tf hdx tour comments in it's own thread, but a couple of observations since I probably won't get to hit it until next week.

    - fb @55 LO -> DT @53 on stringers stringometer (racquet right off stringer ... probably this morning)
    - a RT String Factor of 1.69 gave me 53#, so that is what I will use. The RT database had the string factor at 1.59.

    Looks like hdx is heavier than Velocity (Cream is heavier than one would expect, more than Velocity, but I can't find my notes)

    11.39 oz - v/c
    11.43 0z - fb tf hdx tour

    - HDX feels slick like Velocity ... but doesn't have that fresh Velocity oil product smell :eek:

    - Velocity natural is white ... HDX natural is ... uh ... natural

    Man... it's going to drive me nuts to wait until Tues to hit.
     
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  4. USPTARF97

    USPTARF97 Rookie

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    Weather terrible here for tennis as well. 20’s lows for the next 8 days. The days that it warms up it rains. Shut down the tennis for awhile.
     
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  5. jmacdaununder2

    jmacdaununder2 Professional

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    Okay, I'll do it myself: Demo, demo, demo - I know, I know...;)
     
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  6. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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  7. Traffic

    Traffic Hall of Fame

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    Sorry. My opportunities for playing tennis is down with my ankle recovery. I've been on the IRL for our league matches. Plus, I've got 2 mountain bikes I have to rebuild; mine and a buddies. I think working on bikes is more profitable right now. I'm getting paid in "old fashioned" supplies.:D
     
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  8. Traffic

    Traffic Hall of Fame

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    @ByeByePoly , I also have a pack of RIP Control that I picked up hoping to try it out crossed with Cream. I know you would want me to try fb first. And maybe I should. But that's another step that I don't seem to have time for...
     
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  9. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    I think you have done a great job working toward your best setup, and v/c seems to be it (or at least very close). It appears Cream is a great cross for a multi ... good spin, tension maintenance and apparently can make a multi (at least Velocity) notch slower than fb v/multi. If you take Cream as a given ... and multi main as a given ... you are down to asking if there is another multi main you would prefer over V. Can't be many ... because we are both preferring the low powered end of the multi range.

    Low-mid powered multi:

    From what I hit so far:
    - Velocity
    - PPC

    From comments here and tw reviews
    - Rip C
    - head fxp
    - head fxp tour ?
    - tf hdx tour
    - isospeed control classic

    You could probably find better feel in the V mains in your/my acceptable power range strung at mid-tension. But other considerations ... durability, tension maint, fraying, play level until break/restringing.

    My hope with tf hdx tour is it checks the same boxes V did ... but I like it better. PPC checked a lot of boxes, but so did V and I liked V better. That reminds me ... someone just posted how much they are loving PPC/Beast XP. PPC isn't as muted as V. We all like different feel ... no doubt some would prefer ppc/cream over v/cream.

    https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/prince-premier-control-wow.607509/

    I should have never started reading about strings here. We could all just be playing with fb sensation and been happy.
     
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  10. Znak

    Znak Rookie

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    Interesting I just received my order, two sets of PPC (amongst other goodies) going to take it for a spin next week or week after
    :D:D:D
     
  11. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    $89 for a reel of PPC ... makes you want to reely :cool: like it. I tested it @55 ... and found great control with it. V had a little more pop/power, and quite a bit more spin. I think the last ball machine session I was at the 5-6 hour mark, and it really was playing great. I was always curious what it would have felt like @52. Probably just in my head ... but ppc strings stayed straight and felt like they stayed in place (no slide/snapback). V feels like it slides. I think all strings move ... so maybe a different degree of movement. I just remember when you hit ppc in the center, really good control feeling.

    FB V definitely has more spin then FB PPC, but who knows how they both would matchup with cream cross. Both are going to be good durability for a multi ... but I don't know anything about ppc tension maint. I just had a thought ... I bet ppc/v would have more spin than fb ppc. V is slippery ... feels like tf hdx tour is also.

    Man .... between you and @Traffic (when we get him healed) ... lots of testing. I like to test with other players $ and stringing. :cool:
     
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  12. Traffic

    Traffic Hall of Fame

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    Unfortunately, I believe the description of string and racquet I read in online stores. I would be playing a Pure Drive with Hurricane and wonder why I suck and my arm keeps hurting.

    Now I've got a comfortable setup that I can play over and over with no aching. I'm playing better tennis now than I've ever played. well, minus the ankle injury. But I can't blame my equipment for that.
     
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  13. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    Hey ... I raise your ankle braces with two hamstring compression sleeves. I wanted something thinner than neoprene sleeves ... and the neoprene would slide down (until it got wet from sweat). I now have compression sleeves for calves and hamstrings. Give me time ... I will get to knees and ankles. :confused:
     
  14. Traffic

    Traffic Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, I'm sure ankle braces will now be permanent for me. Even at full health, I'm gonna want the extra support/protection.
     
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  15. jmacdaununder2

    jmacdaununder2 Professional

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  16. jmacdaununder2

    jmacdaununder2 Professional

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    Thanks for the link! Still wondering which one actually plays softer - assuming - for the sake of softness - I am prepared to discount the prevailing opinion that PT Air plays 'meh' in any case lol!
     
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  17. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    @jmacdaununder2

    Had a teammmate try it in yonex Ai98. Wasn't for him. He had me cut it out and quickly went back to his Gamma ioSOFT / Gamma Glide.

    That just means it wasn't for him. You might love it.
     
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  18. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    Duplicate posting error again.
     
  19. smithie

    smithie New User

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    I’ve recently changed from a Babolat PS 18x20 to the Prince Textreme 100p tour after starting to get early signs of tennis elbow. Although better, with a full bed of ALU power I can still feel it in my elbow after 30 mins of solid hitting. Do you think this set up work in the 100p given its flex? Any other opinions welcome!
     
  20. smithie

    smithie New User

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    duplicare post :/
     
  21. scotus

    scotus G.O.A.T.

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    Ditch the poly. Rest a few weeks and try either full gut, full Velocity, or my favorite full HDX Tour. You will need to raise tension at least 5 lbs to get similar control to your ALU.

    After your pain fully abates, you are welcome to try the Cream/Velocity.
     
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  22. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    Good answer Doc Scotus ... even a nice bedside manner. Tues is HDX test ... I think that is worthy of a new can of Pro Penn Marathon, even if my buddy is just coming off knee replacement. :p
     
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  23. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    I have 1.30 mm Wilson old school (made by Babolat) Gut / 1.25mm Head Hawk in one frame, and the Cream / HDX Tour setup feels pretty darn soft even comparing to gut/poly.

    Honestly, it is the softest poly hybrid I can remember. Had a buddy hit with it and he is dropping off some frames tomorrow am. He asked for Cream/ HDX in a Pure Aero and a Pure Drive.
     
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  24. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    Duplicate
     
  25. USPTARF97

    USPTARF97 Rookie

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    2017 RF97 and 2017 PS97 with Velocity/ Weiss Cannon at 55/52. Perfect in the PS97 but could probably back off of the RF97 tension to 53/50 or so in the cold temps. May try not pre-stretching the mains next time and soften the string bed. Great set up.
    Thank you guys for the information on this string, probably no way I would have thought to try this string.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018 at 6:19 AM
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  26. Znak

    Znak Rookie

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    After another 3 hours of V/C I'm still getting that wrist pain, (zero pain in the elbow however). There's something I really like about the setup — my one-handed backhand feels really really beefy (in the best way possible), and I'm unsure of why... At the end of the session I gave my 2nd racquet a go which had YTSP/YPTP (at 55/51) which felt like it was in the opposite end of the spectrum. I don't know if it's me but it felt noticeably lighter, like I could finely cut through a ball. I'm still on the fence about YTSP having had tried a fb of it, but YPTP, holy crap... that's my kind of poly. The touch and spin I had with it was remarkably good (even my opponent was noticing). The control and power were off but that could be a combination of finding a more dialed-in tension and swapping out YTSP. I'm thinking Velocity/YPTP might be on my list to try, but first I might eventually cut my v/c racquet after only 9 hours (12% tension loss and holding steady) and toss in a fb of PPC to see how that goes.

    For now, my wrist might need a few days, so I might hit pause until the weekend.
     
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  27. USPTARF97

    USPTARF97 Rookie

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    So far what I am finding is better playability and comfort with NXT/ Weiss Cannon and better durability with Velocity/ Weiss Cannon. At half price it’s worth experimenting with lower tensions to find something that works.
     
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  28. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

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    Check the mass and balance of your 2 frames. You may find out why you like the V/C better than the YTSP/YPTP. One issue players 'fooling around with strings' seem to forget is that the mass of the string is not equal.
     
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  29. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    " but YPTP, holy crap"

    Come on ... you can't tell a elbow impaired guy about a great poly. :confused:

    Did you play yptp just as a cross, and that is the spin you are talking about. I'm always surprised when crossing change spin much. Changing power is obvious ... which might change increased swing speed from confidence. That would make more sense to me... but I just haven't tried enough hybrids with poly crosses, and it doesn't look like I will.

    You would think comfort level between multis ( velocity and ytsp ) would make much wrist pain difference. It would lead you to believe your wrist likes yptp better than cream. The stiffness #s wouldn't lead you to believe that, but the final test is how it feels to us. I know @TenFanLA likes YPTP much better as a cross to his gut over Cream. I think that cheating Babolat he has requires more gut taming then Cream was giving him.

    "I'm thinking Velocity/YPTP might be on my list to try"

    Yeah ... that's where this leads to unless it's obvious you like the Yonex multi over Velocity.

    I will hit TF HDX Tour for the first time this afternoon. I hope the club indoor courts heating is working ... fricken -7 F windchill here this morning. Holy SH*T!!!
     
  30. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    "One issue players 'fooling around with strings' seem to forget is that the mass of the string is not equal."

    Yep ... here are some technical details on that:

    Tonic , Cream ... both frickin heavy

    Velocity ... frickin light

    tf HDX tour ... half-frickin light
     
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  31. Znak

    Znak Rookie

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    Good point I just weighed, the racquet with Velocity came out to 337g and YTSP 335g. Is that enough to be noticeable?

    Yeah it's strange but in the crosses it gives me just enough of what I need from the poly (still have yet to try poly/mult I'm just worried it'll be too much for my arm). Excited for your HDX test, but -7F holy cow!!

    Its still early but I think I may like a heavier string
     
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  32. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    Hit tf HDX tour for one hour with my buddy with the recent knee replacement. Didn't exactly bang a ton of balls, but good enough for an initial impression.

    Liked it ... will be keeping the 6 sets. I will play this first FB until it breaks, and then my guess is I will try hdx/v. Will explain at the end.

    - very arm friendly ... Velocity more forgiving outside the sweet spot, but had no arm issues (wouldn't expect any over time ... you can feel the elasticity)
    - crisper than Velocity ... Velocity is more muted
    - good control, a little more spin than fb Velocity ... but it's a more powerful string than Velocity and I sent some sailing long.

    HDX is more powerful @55 then Velocity @55. I would say HDX @55 is also more powerful then V @52 ... but that is getting in the same ball park.

    Spin: (if you called v/cream a 10)
    10 - V/Cream 55/50
    8.5 - fb HDX @55
    8.0 - fb Velocity

    I don't know how much of that to attribute to strings vs the big differential of v/cream setup.

    Assuming HDX plays fairly consistently from this first hit, I would stick with fb @55. I sent some flying, but it was stiff enough outside of the center @55 ... I wouldn't want to make it more harsh.

    I could play fb with this string no problem. It's a little more powerful than fb Velocity ... but close enough I would call it in my preferred power range. Origin @55 was a rocket launcher for me ... HDX is not that.

    So I like the less muted (than Velocity) feel of HDX, and the bump in spin ... but am suspect of the extra power (UEs ... I don't string past mid-tension) ... and I REALLY like the forgiveness of Velocity. Velocity is the best I have played so far for forgiveness outside the center.

    My thoughts are HDX/V 55/52 might give me most of both. The feel of HDX ... and the added forgiveness of Velocity. My off center hits generally happen toward the top edge (not the tip or throat). My thinking is the Velocity cross would soften it up on the edge (or I could just learn to hit it in the center every time ... still waiting for that after 40 years).

    For you guys with more hybrid experience, would a cross work that way ... i.e. change characteristic of edge hits? Velocity always makes me think I have a bigger sweet spot because it masks the horror. :p

    All kidding aside, great string. Good tip @scotus.
     
  33. scotus

    scotus G.O.A.T.

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    The -7 degree F temp might have something to do with the harshness you felt from hits outside the sweet spot, because in my experience, polys stiffen up much more than multis or gut in cold weather.

    In my area (SoCal), I feel that Velocity has no advantage over the HDX Tour in the area of comfort.
     
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  34. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    hahaha ... I think that is what @Znak thought to ... that I played outside.

    I had to go check what I said :D

    BBP: "I will hit TF HDX Tour for the first time this afternoon. I hope the club indoor courts heating is working ... fricken -7 F windchill here this morning. Holy SH*T!!!"

    Indoor courts at a club. It wasn't cold at all ... other than the walk from the car.

    On the comfort ... you probably just never miss the center. ;) I don't feel the poly on off center hits, but it feels a little less forgiving. For example with Cream, I feel the poly off center.

    It came off stringer at 53# ... sat for 5 days without play ... 52.1 before hit today and 51.9 after. Based on your posts, I suspect it will play like it did today until break/restringing.
     
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  35. Znak

    Znak Rookie

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    Wow great to hear! I'm eager to try it out — do you feel that at that price point it's worth it's value? I wish Tec strings were a few bucks cheaper
     
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  36. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    Which gauge did you get? I tried a full bed of HDX Tour 1.24 last summer. I didn't dislike it, but one of the more noticeable aspects to me is that it got worse the longer I played with it. In that respect it was more like a poly than a multi - often I find myself enjoying multis the best just before they break. Durability was maybe 50% longer than a typical multi of that gauge for me.

    For me, no. I'm waiting for delivery of a reel of Velocity today. The price of €79.90 from TWE means similar strings would have to be very special to compete... €17.95 for a set of HDX Tour isn't going to cut it for me.
     
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  37. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    Two underlying impressions of RIP Control:

    - I've never know a string to move so much
    - I can't get a clean reading with racquetTune on it

    I found it quite reasonable as a cross for a poly main, but that was a number of years ago before softer strings were available with a slicker coating. I string for a couple of people who swear by it in a full bed, but the movement drove me mad. It's a really difficult one to recommend because it's so unique - very much a case of needing to try it for yourself. Monogut ZX is the only other string I've come across that I'd put so firmly in that [try it for yourself] category.
     
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  38. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    Is hdx $10 better than Velocity? I can only answer that for me ... and after one hit ... but if I was a string breaker probably not. I love Velocity ... play good with it ... got used to muted feel. I get $20+ hours out of V ... and assuming same or better out of hdx ... $10 difference isn’t a big thing. I pay my stringer $15 ... so $25 vs $35 per stringing for 20+ hours of play.

    I bought these six sets for $13 and free shipping. $7 hdx main + $5 velocity cross = $12 + $15 = $27 per stringing.

    If one likes V ... I think the $8-10 price is a great bargain.
     
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  39. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    1.30/16g

    I have played with 16g for pretty much all my tennis years. I hope it plays consistent until it breaks/restringing, because that is a big deal for me also. I suspect 16g might do that better than the 17g you tried. Velocity to me is great at maintaining play until break. I could take freshly strung v @55 and @52 at 20 hours, and those are both in same ballpark. Amazing for nylon.
     
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  40. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    I would think Velocity is one of the better non-poly crosses. @Dartagnan64 got great spin from origin/velocity. If it can give Origin great spin ... that is saying something. @g4driver says head hdx is even slicker than Velocity as a cross. Based on customer comments and specs, maybe a bit stiffer than Velocity. I already love v ... so I will stick with what I know. As little winter tennis as I am currently playing, the tf hdx tour/v test should happen in 2-3 months. :confused:
     
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  41. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    I am not sure HDX Tour is slicker than Velocity. I can't confirm that and won't say it is. I just like it more.

    I don't buy strings like Velocity by the pack. Reels are cheaper for crosses. I have two reels of Velocity and will continue to happily recommend it for clients who like more muted multis like PPC. It is a better PPC honestly. And a great price.

    HDX Tour doesn't come in reels, but it can be purchased for $15 a pack on TW and $13 a pack elsewhere for 1.30mm

    1.35mm HDX Tour can be purchased for $10 a pack and that puts it in the Velocity price range of either $5 1.35mm or $6.5 1.30mm per cross.

    HDX Tour 1.30 will always last longer than 1.30mm Velocity simply due to it being 30% poly. HDX Tour doesn't die on me like a poly string, it breaks.

    For me HDX Tour is simply a better version of X1 that also comes in 1.35mm. So while not for everyone, I prefer it over over multis, because it is soft like X1, just as crisp and outlasts X1.
     
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  42. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    Sorry, I was trying to mention your Head FXP suggestion as a "slickest" cross. I invented a string with my Head HDX.

    I think tf hdx tour feels more like gut, and velocity feels/plays more like poly. So I would hope hdx/v would be a nylon version of gut poly. I actually don't love gut (at least vs and tonic which is all I have played), so not looking to match that exactly anyway. I like the idea of the tighter tension and most durable in the mains, hence hdx/v 55/52. That said, not opposed to trying v/hdx also after (maybe at same time ... I do have two racquets :rolleyes: ... jeeze ... I'm a stringaholic). I was really surprised at the spin of v/c ... maybe v/hdx gets close to that. But then you have to ask, why would a hdx cross make a v main spin more than a v cross. Like I asked before, maybe most of it was the big differential. If I tried fb v @55/50 ... maybe that's much more spin than fb v @52?

    Anyone reading these string threads should just pick a string and never read this forum again. :eek:
     
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  43. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    For me, velocity was a significantly better string than ppc. Velocity is slightly more powerful, but both land in low-mid power range. V is durable ... ppc suppose to be also ... so no real difference there probably. V spin much better.

    Price, feel (we are all different) and slightly lower power than V are possible reasons one would pick ppc over v. To me ppc isn't as muted ... v lives in it's own world. Based on the v thread, the two biggest reasons v didn't work for someone was 1) not full poly spin 2) too muted.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018 at 8:49 AM
  44. letplaytennis

    letplaytennis Rookie

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    Exactly how I feel.
     
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  45. USPTARF97

    USPTARF97 Rookie

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    Agree, we have hit the best combos possible from Gut/poly, Multi/ poly, Syn Gut/ Poly and Poly mains with gut,multi, syn-gut crosses. Pick a combination and if the arm doesn’t hurt, play ball and adjust tension based on conditions.
    Just an observation: Have you been watching the Australian Open and seen how many players have Natural Gut in the crosses with poly mains?
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018 at 9:37 AM
  46. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Hall of Fame

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    Pretty sure string weight differences are only noticeable to those with a penchant to be deceived by placebo effects.
     
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  47. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Hall of Fame

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    Of course they do. They don't buy their strings. And use the string bed for 30 minutes. For the rest of us hacks, it's waste of money to put the most expensive string in the crosses.

    Never look at the pros for advice on strings. They live in a different world of optimum performance no matter the cost. We'd all love to have fresh strings every match, with top of the line poly/gut combos. But who has $60 to spend every match?
     
  48. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    I would split that between 1) notice ... and 2) changes any level of play

    Very unlikely rec players play changes from variation in string weights. But noticing ... oh yeah, we are tennis players ... we notice/feel everything. I did a test once with dimes. Measure out different weights of dimes, and just tape them to different spots on the racquet. Throat, tip, handle. You would be surprised how little weight you notice ... at least I did. It's just not going to change play that much, because most players would just adjust swings accordingly if necessary. It would be subconscious ... "this swing keeps the ball in the court".

    You notice the least amount of weight in the tip. At the tip, .1 oz (2.8g) at the tip is about 1 HL point. @Znak asked if he would notice 2 grams of weight difference. He might if it was all at the tip. His racquet looks like it's 6 pts HL, so maybe he wouldn't notice 1 HL change. My racquet starts at only 1 HL, and my preference range appears to be neutral to 4ish ... so I don't have much room to make it more HH. Also, with strings, it's not all at the tips, spread out at the head. So basically ... I agree, most players won't have to think about string weight differences. That has nothing to do with "if we will worry about it". :cool:
     
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  49. USPTARF97

    USPTARF97 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2017
    Messages:
    381
    Have played Natural Gut in the crosses when using Head racquets. Lasts 3-5 hrs just like gut in the mains and generates an extremely heavy ball. String bed is easier on the arm than all poly but maintains some characteristics of playing with all poly. Never looking to the pro’s would be horrible advice unless you are a beginner to 3.0 player. Upper level juniors and 4.0 and above players benefit tremendously. Do you think that because Federer plays with gut/poly in the RF97 that no one should attempt that? It happens to be what that racquet plays best.
    Madison Keys is playing Luxilon with NXT crosses. A number of our juniors play with that set up and it is allot easier on their developing arms than all poly. There is allot to be learned from the best if one pays attention.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018 at 10:56 AM
  50. USPTARF97

    USPTARF97 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2017
    Messages:
    381
    Weight of string is very noticeable when the comparison is between Natural Gut and thinner polys.
     
  51. smithie

    smithie New User

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    3
    Has anyone tested the respective differences between the gauges of v/c and how they play? Is there an optimum that people have found or simply personal preference?
     

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