Venus- did Serena's ascent in 2002 ruin her career

[conway]

Seeing Venus's inspired run (including a shock win over nemesis and sister Serena who has been aging much better than Venus) at the Canadian Open was a great sight to witness for one of the games great champions in her twilight years. It also makes one reflect on her outstanding but still enigmatic career. There was a point where some thought Venus was on her way to becoming the best ever, or atleast right up there with the best in history. At the end of 2001 she had won 4 of the last 6 slams, and was favored by some to complete the Grand Slam in 2002. Then Serena emerged, beat Venus in 4 straight slam finals, and won 5 of the next 7 majors, and Venus would take 4 years to win another, and would never win a non Wimbledon again.

Did Venus lose heart and motivation with Serena's rapid ascent in 2002. What caused her to never win a big title off of grass again, and be such an underachiever and enigma in the remaining years of her career. 7 slams is such a massive underachievement for someone of her staggering talent. She does have that terrible illness too, but isn't it believed she didn't begin suffering from that until many years after 2001.

 

[DRII]

i think her auto immune disease did have an affect on her early in her career.

i also think that Venus let-up some on her sister in 2002, giving her an inch and Serena took a mile. Given their differences in personality, i see this as a distinct possibility.

even still, Venus' peak level is the highest i've ever seen from a woman. no other woman was a fast or explosive as prime Venus! even now, as evidenced in her win over Serena this week, she has among the most pace in the women's game and she's a shell of her former self...

 

[Mr.Lob]

Due to other interests, both Venus and Serena have underachieved. Their interest in fashion design probably cost both around 4 or 5 slams. Venus with her illness, Serena with her injuries, medical and family problems, and emotional problems... also costly.

 

[jrs]

I also think initially Venus - took it easy on little sister. I think during the early years Venus could've shut out Serena - but decided to do otherwise maybe Richard had something to do with it.

 

[SpicyCurry1990]

Seeing Venus's inspired run (including a shock win over nemesis and sister Serena who has been aging much better than Venus) at the Canadian Open was a great sight to witness for one of the games great champions in her twilight years. It also makes one reflect on her outstanding but still enigmatic career. There was a point where some thought Venus was on her way to becoming the best ever, or atleast right up there with the best in history. At the end of 2001 she had won 4 of the last 6 slams, and was favored by some to complete the Grand Slam in 2002. Then Serena emerged, beat Venus in 4 straight slam finals, and won 5 of the next 7 majors, and Venus would take 4 years to win another, and would never win a non Wimbledon again.

Did Venus lose heart and motivation with Serena's rapid ascent in 2002. What caused her to never win a big title off of grass again, and be such an underachiever and enigma in the remaining years of her career. 7 slams is such a massive underachievement for someone of her staggering talent. She does have that terrible illness too, but isn't it believed she didn't begin suffering from that until many years after 2001.

only 7 women topped 7 in the open era

 

[aaron 3000]

only 7 women topped 7 in the open era?

you highlighted the line that refutes your point, making your post irrelevant: "7 slams is such a massive underachievement for someone of her staggering talent."

conway never said winning 7 slams was something to scoff at. he said for someone of her immense talent, she should've won more. :roll:

 

[MichaelNadal]

Serena did a number on her in 2002. She'd have at LEAST 11 slams and a career slam. OUCH. Richard just haaaaad to be horny :roll: jkjk

 

[Russeljones]

Keep in mind that nobody knows how far back Sjogren's was affecting her. She's an inspiration indeed.

 

[Gizo]

Venus has a great career despite battling a lot of adversity, i.e. her Sjogren's syndrome, the death of Yetunde etc, along the way.

Also a lot of tennis players, male and female, have tunnel vision, eating, drinking and sleeping tennis, living in a bubble and having a general lack of perspective or other interests. Venus on the other hand has had a very well rounded lifestyle, combining a great career with other interests, business ventures, educational pursuits etc away from the court. That's great going.

I guess with her career if you think back to the 2001 US Open, who would have thought back then after that triumph that she would never win another non-grass slam again? Well she might break that long 13 year drought in a few weeks which would be great if it happened, but she struggles to string back to back good tournaments together these days.

She was insanely good on hard courts at peak, with a 57-2 record (outdoors) from 2000-2001 and a 88-5 record from 2000-2002. Her only defeat in 47 matches on US hard courts in 2000-2001 was a QF final set tiebreak loss to Shaughnessy at Stanford in 2001.

She probably should have won the Australian Open at least once in her career. She did win the Olympic gold medal at Sydney in 2000 on rebound ace after all. As well as 2003 when Serena beat her in the final yet again to seal her Serena slam, maybe 2002 was another great opportunity when she was upset by Seles in the quarters, the only defeat she suffered against Seles in their 10 matches against each other.

 

[Gizo]

While Serena was the more talented player than Venus with better technique, the big sister element was probably a factor in some of their matches as well, as Serena clearly hated losing to Venus a lot more than Venus hated losing to her.

After Venus beat Serena in their Wimbledon 2000 semi-final, Serena was devastated and broke down into tears afterwards. Venus's first instinct was to check that her little sister was OK. After Serena beat Venus in their RG 2002 final, Venus was all smiles and got her camera from her bag to take photos of Serena with the trophy. She was so proud of her little sister, and from her reaction you would have thought that she actually won the match.

She finally got annoyed after the 2003 Australian Open final, that she had lost yet another major final to the same player, Serena or no Serena. After one point in that match when Venus aced Serena, Serena even said f*** you b**** aimed at her big sister.

 

[Mr.Lob]

She finally got annoyed after the 2003 Australian Open final, that she had lost yet another major final to the same player, Serena or no Serena. After one point in that match when Venus aced Serena, Serena even said f*** you b**** aimed at her big sister.

Never heard that one before. Were you there, or do you read lips?

 

[dominikk1985]

serena has admitted that she was jealous at the model Body of venus while she had a big butt and more "curvy" statue.

maybe that is one of the reasons why she wanted to kick venus butt so badly.

 

[MichaelNadal]

While Serena was the more talented player than Venus with better technique, the big sister element was probably a factor in some of their matches as well, as Serena clearly hated losing to Venus a lot more than Venus hated losing to her.

After Venus beat Serena in their Wimbledon 2000 semi-final, Serena was devastated and broke down into tears afterwards. Venus's first instinct was to check that her little sister was OK. After Serena beat Venus in their RG 2002 final, Venus was all smiles and got her camera from her bag to take photos of Serena with the trophy. She was so proud of her little sister, and from her reaction you would have thought that she actually won the match.

She finally got annoyed after the 2003 Australian Open final, that she had lost yet another major final to the same player, Serena or no Serena. After one point in that match when Venus aced Serena, Serena even said f*** you b**** aimed at her big sister.

Venus was too nice for too long. I loved the 08 Wimbledon final revenge. Queen Vee looked and played amazing that day.

 

[Mr.Lob]

serena has admitted that she was jealous at the model Body of venus while she had a big butt and more "curvy" statue.

maybe that is one of the reasons why she wanted to kick venus butt so badly.

Uhhh, thought big big booty was in? Venus should be jealous of Serena.

 

[ibbi]

No, it seems more likely to me that her health issues, her other interests, and the fact that she wasn't all that amazing a tennis player had more of an impact on her ability to follow up what she did in 2000 and 2001. I don't think she ever had much chance of winning in Australia or France based on her records there. The singular final she made at each of those places came at the end of pretty weak runs.

 

[dominikk1985]

No, it seems more likely to me that her health issues, her other interests, and the fact that she wasn't all that amazing a tennis player had more of an impact on her ability to follow up what she did in 2000 and 2001. I don't think she ever had much chance of winning in Australia or France based on her records there. The singular final she made at each of those places came at the end of pretty weak runs.

7 slams is not bad for a Player who had health issues, other interests and is not an amazing Tennis Player.

 

[ibbi]

7 slams is not bad for a Player who had health issues, other interests and is not an amazing Tennis Player.

I didn't say not amazing! I said not all THAT amazing she was boss of the tour in her day, but her day wasn't very long, and wasn't especially dominant. If we are to seriously assume that her sisters ascension RUINED her career, then THAT is thinking less of her than anything I've said.

 

[MichaelNadal]

I didn't say not amazing! I said not all THAT amazing she was boss of the tour in her day, but her day wasn't very long, and wasn't especially dominant. If we are to seriously assume that her sisters ascension RUINED her career, then THAT is thinking less of her than anything I've said.

Well, it kinda did.

 

[conway]

Regardless of which is more talented between Serena and Venus (it is hard to see anyone as more talented than Serena who is herself an underachiever, and yet has 17 slams and counting some are calling the best ever) I think one thing we all agree on is that if Venus was able to muster the same determination to beat her sister, as Serena has to beat her, things would have been a lot different when both were at the height from 2001-2004. And I do think Venus lost some heart after not winning a big title in 2002-2004, and so her motivation level and drive was affected too. There are other factors of course- her debilitating illness, her sisters murder (which also affected Serena I am sure), but I still do believe her inability to beat her sister for awhile, and being denied so many big titles by Serena, derailed her career and has kept her from becoming a lot more great.

 

[SpicyCurry1990]

only 7 women topped 7 in the open era?

you highlighted the line that refutes your point, making your post irrelevant: "7 slams is such a massive underachievement for someone of her staggering talent."

conway never said winning 7 slams was something to scoff at. he said for someone of her immense talent, she should've won more. :roll:

I dont think Venus was anywhere near the "staggering" talent of Graf, Evert, Navratilova, Court, Seles or Serena who are six of the ones that won more than her.

She might have been more talented than King who won 8 (open era) to her 7, but thats far from a massive underachievement.

If we want to talk about someone who had massive underachievement that is Seles and there is a very good reason for that.

 

[Gizo]

Never heard that one before. Were you there, or do you read lips?

I taped the match, watched it and remember playing it back as it was pretty funny stuff.

Here is a brief video clip of that incident, but it is pretty clearly what Serena said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33uYtmpub94

Serena was very tense and edgy throughout that whole tournament, as she put herself under a huge amount of pressure to win it and her complete her Serena slam. In her 1st round match against Loit, she was given a huge scare and was 3 points away from defeat. She was warned for swearing at Loit in that match in the 2nd set.

She has also sworn at Sharapova and Henin in matches before, and just because she was playing her big sister in that 2003 final wouldn't deter her, as she has never cared about who is on the other side of the net in a big match, sister or no sister. I'm not criticising her for that at all, as that is another reason (alongside the fact that she is the better and more talented player) why she has been more successful than Venus.

 

[Gizo]

Venus was too nice for too long. I loved the 08 Wimbledon final revenge. Queen Vee looked and played amazing that day.

Yeah I loved the 2008 Wimbledon final. It was incredible tennis from both players and it was great to see Venus coming out on top. I wish that she could have ended up with more Wimbledon titles than Serena, as tennis-wise that was the one big distinction she had over her young sister. Had she won the 2009 Wimbledon final, it would have been 6 titles to 2 in her favour which probably would have put her out of reach to Serena, but unfortunately she put in a very error-strewn performance that day.

And it's true that she was too nice for too long. After she beat Serena in the 2001 US Open final, she was apologetic afterwards, and even said that there was less joy in that success for her as it was Serena who she beat. Serena on the other hand has always viewed Venus as just another opponent during their matches.

Even when he hasn't played Serena, she has often been too nice as well. During her match against Sprem at Wimbledon 2004, when the umpire awarded Sprem that phantom point in the 2nd set tiebreak, she clearly knew something was wrong from her facial expression but she didn't say a single word, when most other players would have ran towards the umpire and angrily protested his stupidity.

Similarly during her RG 2008 defeat against Pennetta, she played on and finished in the dark, when play would have been suspended for the day had she made that request to the umpire. Most other players would have taken up that option, but not Venus.

Also frustrating has been her frequent unwillingness to use her hawkeye challenges during her career, even after blatantly terrible line calls have been made against her. Sometimes you're almost screaming at her through your TV screen or monitor to challenge.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Yeah I loved the 2008 Wimbledon final. It was incredible tennis from both players and it was great to see Venus coming out on top. I wish that she could have ended up with more Wimbledon titles than Serena, as tennis-wise that was the one big distinction she had over her young sister. Had she won the 2009 Wimbledon final, it would have been 6 titles to 2 in her favour which probably would have put her out of reach to Serena, but unfortunately she put in a very error-strewn performance that day.

And it's true that she was too nice for too long. After she beat Serena in the 2001 US Open final, she was apologetic afterwards, and even said that there was less joy in that success for her as it was Serena who she beat. Serena on the other hand has always viewed Venus as just another opponent during their matches.

Even when he hasn't played Serena, she has often been too nice as well. During her match against Sprem at Wimbledon 2004, when the umpire awarded Sprem that phantom point in the 2nd set tiebreak, she clearly knew something was wrong from her facial expression but she didn't say a single word, when most other players would have ran towards the umpire and angrily protested his stupidity.

Similarly during her RG 2008 defeat against Pennetta, she played on and finished in the dark, when play would have been suspended for the day had she made that request to the umpire. Most other players would have taken up that option, but not Venus.

Also frustrating has been her frequent unwillingness to use her hawkeye challenges during her career, even after blatantly terrible line calls have been made against her. Sometimes you're almost screaming at her through your TV screen or monitor to challenge.

Omg forgot about the 2004 incident. I could slap Venus for that :lol: how many sets has she lost just this year from not challenging? Serena was sending Venus death glares for half the match in Canada last week lol.