Versions of Boris Beckers Puma/estusa mold

There were a few different slight mold differences too. Some more rounded and others quit Flat beam and sharp on the edges .. and I had every type of supers. They all felt very similar when new .. I only probably ever had 3 or 4 brand new ones when I was actually using them for tournaments.. I had used ones later in life and found them a bit softer .but for sure the 59 RA one I had was my fave and it was strung at least 40 times by the end .. it finally snapped by me. Totally outta anger too .. sad that day was . Embarrassing too.
When I was using them as my main stick I used prince topspin at 72lbs tension . Later in life I used it at 50 lbs .. w/ soft poly .
if I really look at it from back then until more recently I think that racket performed it absolute best at incredibly high tensions. I thought it was super interesting that there were so many players like me that went from that puma into the Wilson 85 OG pro staff to back to the puma to back to the pro staff . It was damn near seamless transitions for real. Crazy ..
 
Last edited:
teachingprotx said:
Wish the retail super had the same flex of roughly 52-55 which is what his RA HAD to be in that spec range . My old fatigued puma super ( not what Becker ever actually used ) mine got down to 60 and one was a 59 Ra. But the 59 may of had a fracture in the head hoop .
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I will have to review some videos of him playing in the mid - late 80's vs. early 90's.
Why?
Well, on some of the videos of his matches (at least one of them) I noticed the racket he used had the red coloured bottom of the end of the butt cap.
On all later videos, while he was still using Pumas - before switching to his custom frames manufactured at Head's factory, I have seen the white end of the butt cap, so who knows...
Also, one other thing - as you have written yourself recently - his Head manufactured frames felt far stiffer (despite their 59-ish RA) than what any of the fatigued-like frames would feel - I thought that was interesting in regard to the story about Becker preferring the feel of the fatigued, worn frame.

teachingprotx said:
I think Becker used the ra 57 from the vilas puma throughout his career with a super PJ
Click to expand...
No, he definitely did use the Kennelbach manufactured frames later on, I think it might have been somewhere from the end of the 1992. or later. I will have to check the videos of his matches to see exactly if the 1992. was the year, or if it was later than that. But he did definitely switch to that heavy swinging frame made for him.
Heavy swing weight, a bit unbelievable from today´s standards and trends of the lighter rackets.
 
teachingprotx said:
There were a few different slight mold differences too. Some more rounded and others quit Flat beam and sharp on the edges .. and I had every type of supers. They all felt very similar when new .. I only probably ever had 3 or 4 brand new ones when I was actually using them for tournaments.. I had used ones later in life and found them a bit softer .but for sure the 59 RA one I had was my fave and it was strung at least 40 times by the end .. it finally snapped by me. Totally outta anger too .. sad that day was . Embarrassing too.
When I was using them as my main stick I used prince topspin at 72lbs tension . Later in life I used it at 50 lbs .. w/ soft poly .
if I really look at it from back then until more recently I think that racket performed it absolute best at incredibly high tensions. I thought it was super interesting that there were so many players like me that went from that puma into the Wilson 85 OG pro staff to back to the puma to back to the pro staff . It was damn near seamless transitions for real. Crazy ..
Click to expand...

All of this post is actually highly... entertaining!
Brings back some memories, and... all of what is described here was and is part of the tennis life of many of us who have spent the years with this sport...
Also, really interesting to hear that Supers performed best with incredibly high tensions... I always thought lower tensions, or 23-35 kilos range was optimal, but there you go...
 
pbeam said:
No, he definitely did use the Kennelbach manufactured frames later on, I think it might have been somewhere from the end of the 1992. or later. I will have to check the videos of his matches to see exactly if the 1992. was the year, or if it was later than that. But he did definitely switch to that heavy swinging frame made for him.
Heavy swing weight, a bit unbelievable from today´s standards and trends of the lighter rackets.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'd tend to agree. I think in 1991 he was struggling between his old Puma and his new Estusa. The story says that he was not entirely happy with it. In 1992 at the Australian Open, I think he still had the Estusa logo. Later that year he played with no logo so I assume that he switched to the Head-Puma racket that year.

Great frame in every aspect.
 
Last edited:
NicoMK said:
Yes, I'd tend to agree. I think in 1991 he was struggling between his old Puma and his new Estusa. The story says that he was not entirely happy with it. In 1992 at the Australian Open, I thing he still had the Estusa logo. Later that year he played with no logo so I assume that he switched to the Head-Puma racket that year.

Great frame in every aspect.
Click to expand...

I tend to think so myself, but a shadow of the doubt on my behalf about the frame is the ease of use; in one particular aspect - the swing weight.
I would love to think that this is more a shortcoming of mine rather than the measure of the racket itself, although hardly anyone is using them today.

Nevertheless, different strokes for different folks, as I seem to belong to the group of those who prefer lighter rackets, easier to accelerate into and through the ball and adjust during the forward swing.

The dream would be that manouverability combined with the feel of the head-puma frame, or the feel of the Fischer Vacuum Pro mid at the impact.

Even when Boris had the Estusa logo, he was using Pumas all the time, the question to me are the different colours of the end of the butt cap, as even during the Puma period (pre head-puma) they were both white, and red (earlier), to my memory.
Which tells that the red one was the Puma Vilas, and who knows what in late 80's early 90's.
 
pbeam said:
Even when Boris had the Estusa logo, he was using Pumas all the time, the question to me are the different colours of the end of the butt cap, as even during the Puma period (pre head-puma) they were both white, and red (earlier), to my memory.
Which tells that the red one was the Puma Vilas, and who knows what in late 80's early 90's.
Click to expand...

I think that he really tried some Estusa at some point, I might be wrong but, for example, the racket that he used during the 1991 Australian Open was I think an Estusa. I'd tend to believe that the racket with the red butcap has always been an Estusa model. Same for, I think, the Monte-Carlo tournament the same year when he reached the final.

On the ***bay you can actually find one of his Puma frame painted as an Estusa but with the usual Puma butt cap. I don't know if it"'s still available but it was out of price anyway.

Of course I'm only making assumptions but I read long ago that he did play with Estusa frames but wasn't complete happy with the rackets.
 
NicoMK said:
I think that he really tried some Estusa at some point, I might be wrong but, for example, the racket that he used during the 1991 Australian Open was I think an Estusa. I'd tend to believe that the racket with the red butcap has always been an Estusa model. Same for, I think, the Monte-Carlo tournament the same year when he reached the final.

On the ***bay you can actually find one of his Puma frame painted as an Estusa but with the usual Puma butt cap. I don't know if it"'s still available but it was out of price anyway.

Of course I'm only making assumptions but I read long ago that he did play with Estusa frames but wasn't complete happy with the rackets.
Click to expand...
He did try them - as someone wrote here, or at the similar thread.
The story is that he could tell - out of the two blacked-out frames, only after hitting two balls or so, which one was Puma and which one was Estusa, as they did definitely not feel the same.

I tend to believe that those frames he used, with the red butt cap were actually Puma Vilas (I remember that the Winner also had the red butt cap), Puma Super, from my memory, had the white butt cap, and perhaps the butt caps were "adjusted" during his years with the Super paint job to appease the sponsor and the more discerning public.

I will take a look at the Monte Carlo 1991 videos, and AO if I find time... I find it hard to believe that he won the AO 1991 (he really did hit the cover of the ball in that finas) with the racket he later decided not to play with.
I am not convinced at all that he ever played important matches with the Estusa frames (not to take anything from any of those rackets, since to me they are still better in feel than much of today's offerings), but the verdict is out, I wouldn't claim, based on the little we know, what the truth on the matter is.
 
NicoMK said:
Now THAT would be something !!
Click to expand...

What is really sad is that this is something probably not impossible to achieve with today's technology (methods and science behind designing the frames have evolved), but sadly, this frame is really forgotten today. I would love to see someone taking a serious "cut" into updating its SW and weight, and keeping all the good stuff the racket is known for.
 
pbeam said:
What is really sad is that this is something probably not impossible to achieve with today's technology (methods and science behind designing the frames have evolved), but sadly, this frame is really forgotten today. I would love to see someone taking a serious "cut" into updating its SW and weight, and keeping all the good stuff the racket is known for.
Click to expand...
Sure that would be great… but how many of us would be interested in buying such a frame? Boris' fans or nostalgics… people like me (lol) but manufacturers think in terms of money first… and unfortunately they would probably do very few profit with a racket like this. I would sign a petition if it existed but I really doubt someone will ever resurrect this frame. Too bad.
 
pbeam said:
He did try them - as someone wrote here, or at the similar thread.
The story is that he could tell - out of the two blacked-out frames, only after hitting two balls or so, which one was Puma and which one was Estusa, as they did definitely not feel the same.

I tend to believe that those frames he used, with the red butt cap were actually Puma Vilas (I remember that the Winner also had the red butt cap), Puma Super, from my memory, had the white butt cap, and perhaps the butt caps were "adjusted" during his years with the Super paint job to appease the sponsor and the more discerning public.

I will take a look at the Monte Carlo 1991 videos, and AO if I find time... I find it hard to believe that he won the AO 1991 (he really did hit the cover of the ball in that finas) with the racket he later decided not to play with.
I am not convinced at all that he ever played important matches with the Estusa frames (not to take anything from any of those rackets, since to me they are still better in feel than much of today's offerings), but the verdict is out, I wouldn't claim, based on the little we know, what the truth on the matter is.
Click to expand...
I can confirm the retail Puma Super had/has a white buttcap and the PCS system with protruding "screw", as we know.
Also, I got to see some of Boris personal Puma Super p-j for sale on web during last years and, actually, they all had the white buttcap, probably to replicate better the retail Super (as you mentioned), but all with a "fake" PCS system which actually does not work as on retail Winner/Vilas.

As for his Puma rackets painted like Estusas, I saw both red and white Puma buttcap on them, which are not always the color actually used on their retail counterparts.
For example, I recall the first black "chess-like" edition of the Estusa ProVantech PB to have a black buttcap, instead of the red one of the Boris personal one I got to see, and the following ProVantech PB Championship Limited Edition in blue-red color to have a red buttcap, instead of the white used on Boris personal one, ecc...
I think that Estusa did not put such an effort to actually replicate at 100% the cosmetic of the retail edition on Boris personal rackets...other times, no internet and so on...much easier to trick almost all the tennis fan.
 
This is a good one. Wtf?
Gerade bei #eBayKleinanzeigen gefunden. Wie findest du das?
https://www.****-kleinanzeigen.de/s...buttons&utm_medium=social&utm_content=app_ios
 
To resume:
1. Becker never played the retail Vilas/Winner frame layup. His frame was from the beginning 50/50 Graphite/Fiberglas
2. His personal frames never had the white complete adjustable PCS. Always foamed handle with butt caps - in different colours - and alibi screw. The Pumas were made from different manufacturers over the years!
3. He played the Estusa made by Jackson Tses Sanhosun fabric - who made the 1987 Puma Super - from Adelaide 91 to Hamburg 92. How identical his personal Super was compared to his personal Estusa? We will never know. First Tournament with the Head Made was Queens 92.
 
G. Vilas Power Pro Line with molded handle. 66,5 cm long, ~330 grams without grip.

F-nyk-p046.jpg


F-nyk-p049.jpg


F-nyk-p060.jpg


F-nyk-p059.jpg


F-nyk-p061.jpg
 
teachingprotx said:
Where is the pro kennex models ? I have never known of any and I am pretty knowledgeable on all the estusa / puma variants .
Click to expand...

I can have a pic or two of one those Pro Kennex prototypes. A friend of mine owns one. Supposedly made by PK at the time when Boris was looking for a manufacturer I guess. Will try to post some pics this week. I cannot exactly remember the story behind that frame, a rep gave it to him I believe. Black frame with a different string pattern and no screw in the handle. But typically made from a Puma mold.
 
I get a kick out of the old sticks from yore. I have a Becker Super in superb condition and a Topstar that is like new as well I picked up for $30. Also have a Lendl GTX Pro-T, Rossi 200, 200 Max G, T-2000....1980s!

I prefer the Topstar to be honest. The Super is very flexy and can spray shots some. The Topstar is stiffer for sure, has a 16x20 pattern and extended has a 340+ swing weight. Aside from some harshness in the layup, it's very similar to my Yonex Duel G 330s in head size, stiffness, weight, pattern, SW, balance.

Haven't tried the pro. Looks like the Super, 16x19, but with the Topstar layup.
 
Thread bump. Big fan of Boom Boom . I've been recently swinging my old Estusa Powerbeam from 1998 and was shopping for other old Boris Becker sticks when I came across a Pro Kennex Dominator Gt. It's advertised as a "Becker Puma Style racquet " Anyone familiar with it? It definitely has similarities to Puma frames. I can't find any info or specs for it. For $30 I figured I'd grab it.
 
Ronin74 said:
Thread bump. Big fan of Boom Boom . I've been recently swinging my old Estusa Powerbeam from 1998 and was shopping for other old Boris Becker sticks when I came across a Pro Kennex Dominator Gt. It's advertised as a "Becker Puma Style racquet " Anyone familiar with it? It definitely has similarities to Puma frames. I can't find any info or specs for it. For $30 I figured I'd grab it.
Click to expand...
No it’s nothing like it . The puma has a mellow “ V throat . With out a v throat it’s no where close to a puma even with an egg shaped head if no v throat it’s just fodder
 
teachingprotx said:
No it’s nothing like it . The puma has a mellow “ V throat . With out a v throat it’s no where close to a puma even with an egg shaped head if no v throat it’s just fodder
Click to expand...
Appreciate it. I figured it was unlikely that it was actually made for Becker as an experimental replacement for his Puma. The throat kind of reminds me of Kneissel though. Still an interesting find, unfortunately can't find any info on it. Thanks
 
Ronin74 said:
Appreciate it. I figured it was unlikely that it was actually made for Becker as an experimental replacement for his Puma. The throat kind of reminds me of Kneissel though. Still an interesting find, unfortunately can't find any info on it. Thanks
Click to expand...
Yes ! Indeed a very interesting find .
I was in no way intending to be be presumptuous nor too curt , if I came off
In an offensive way I do so apologize.
Your racket seems to be an egg shaped dominator 90 .
Mixed composition from the mid 80’s
Head light I’d say 10 pts or more
Really thin beamed
RA ( 63 ) I’d guess
Healthy swngweight
 
teachingprotx said:
Yes ! Indeed a very interesting find .
I was in no way intending to be be presumptuous nor too curt , if I came off
In an offensive way I do so apologize.
Your racket seems to be an egg shaped dominator 90 .
Mixed composition from the mid 80’s
Head light I’d say 10 pts or more
Really thin beamed
RA ( 63 ) I’d guess
Healthy swngweight
Click to expand...
No apology necessary! I appreciate the any information I can get. It is definitely egg shaped but a flat throat bridge instead of the "v" that you saw in Puma or Estusa frames. Once it arrives I'll try to get a pic up. It seems I can't post pics from my camera directly to the forum in posts?
 
Played my Estusa Powerbeam last night and probably played the best tennis I have played in months. Also hit the Puma Onyx Saber and BB Delta core London Tour afterwards and they all felt quite similar. I have recently come across a seller on a certain auction site that has a batch of Puma Winners for sale all in varying degrees of wear. He is located in Poland but ships internationally. If anyone is interested message me and I'll get you his store name.
 
yes but there is the one sold to the public and the other one with no lettering on the racket and different grommets too. same specs both?
 
Grommet stripes are the same, at Beckers frames they are all flanged. Retail was without foam inside. For more I will try to ask a friend who worked for Head that time and was introduced in the Becker racket production. I still know that in summer 92 I would give everything to him for bringing even one frame but it was impossible. Head had no rights on it and was only the producer.
 
Oh wow I didn’t realize there were 2 different versions of the latter Becker frame ?
So I don’t flub this .. so there was one that was the world championship frame .. that had some minimal silver lettering and numbers ( the one we see for sale on the eblayyyy sites . And then there was another one with no numbers or letters anywhere ? And it was sold retail or never sold retail ? Confused …
 
teachingprotx said:
Oh wow I didn’t realize there were 2 different versions of the latter Becker frame ?
So I don’t flub this .. so there was one that was the world championship frame .. that had some minimal silver lettering and numbers ( the one we see for sale on the eblayyyy sites . And then there was another one with no numbers or letters anywhere ? And it was sold retail or never sold retail ? Confused …
Click to expand...
The one without any lettering was never sold and was only produced for Boris
 
there is one personal racket on eb...com there you can clearly see the same grommets like on the pumas, its the no lettering head racket
 
Last edited:
my puma world champion racket weights 11.39 oz/322g strung without replacement grip. cant believe becker played with this baby weight
 
reini0100 said:
there is one personal racket on eb...com there you can clearly see the same grommets like on the pumas, its the no lettering head racket
Click to expand...
As I said grommet stripes are the same, at Beckers frames they are all flanged in the inside, at the retail only some grommets. That looks like two different ones but it isnt.
Beckers racket had additional lead, the retail only "painted" lead.
 
the stripes outside are the same, but inside they are different, yes but with the lead added like it is painted on you add a max of 20 grams I think. there is an estusa limited edition paintjob for sale on eb.. that weights 348 unstrung. it has original white puma buttcap on. think it is real.
 
Ok yeah I got it now .. the world champion does not have the puma flanges. Yet the world champion does kinda have the puma grommet on the strip going around the frame .. the good ole opaque puma zig zag grommet strip
super fu#$&%ing confusing I’ll say
 
teachingprotx said:
Ok yeah I got it now .. the world champion does not have the puma flanges. Yet the world champion does kinda have the puma grommet on the strip going around the frame .. the good ole opaque puma zig zag grommet strip
super fu#$&%ing confusing I’ll say
Click to expand...
The world champion has zig zag grommets and what flanges are you talking about?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

G
Estusa Graphite Midplus??
Replies
2
Views
1K
goostah
G
M
New Boris Becker Puma/Power Beam/Estusa petition
2
Replies
58
Views
8K
NicoMK
NicoMK
teachingprotx
Puma estusa mold
Replies
4
Views
1K
Crocodile
Crocodile
T
Estusa Boris Becker ProVantech RB (Roundbody) specs?
Replies
3
Views
2K
tnet
T
teachingprotx
Ok Last time . What becker frames off the RDC machine show?….
Replies
9
Views
562
Play2win
P
Back
Top