Very annoyed: Will Hamilton from FYB

jonestim

Hall of Fame
#51
I also purchased the 55% advantage and also didn't read the fine print enough. I was working on the assumption that it was $47 one time. I figured that it was less than 1 hr with my local pro and it would be worth it if I got something out of it.

I watched all the videos and did get a couple takeaways. Some of the information is different than what I have heard from local coaches. I watched it over the weekend and haven't had a chance to see if the knowledge gets me more wins.

I think this video series is better produced than some of the other ones he has done. It was a bit long winded and all the points could have probably been hit much quicker, but a 20 minute video wouldn't make you feel like it was worth the money.

If I go out and regularly start winning against guys i usually lose to 6/3 it may be worth it. Will does have good return policy which I have used in the past. I didn't think he spent enough time in the editing room with the Bryan Bros lessons and didn't find the information all that useful so I got my money back.

For $47 I would not request a refund. I feel like I got $47 out of it. It does bother me that it's $94 and I am now more inclined to ask for the refund unless I find spectacular results.
 
#53
Salzenstein would be the only online instructor I'd give my money to.
But I'd rather to real life coaches anyway.
I ended up on his list. He had some decent free pointers.

But since I didn't buy his program, I got this passive aggressive email that basically said "I'm really surprised. I thought you cared about tennis. But I guess not. Otherwise you'd buy my stuff."
 
#54
I am on the mailing list of pretty much every single internet pro - all of them have moved to fairly aggressive and sometimes passive aggressive tactics nowadays. Jeff and his 'surprised bit' is par for the course. So I won't single out Will.

The big problem with all internet pros is its likely you are doing something - or several things wrong they are not correcting. This means that a halfway decent real coach can spot your flaw in 10 seconds that watching hours of internet coaching won't help..

Some of these guys are really excellent real life coaches - but that does not necessarily translate into helping people play better tennis. Still - video is better then books at least. I didn't like Will's double course (which was the last thing and I think only thing I bought from him) - too much talk and not enough specific things to do and/or work on. But I am sure some people loved it.

But I did think this course seemed better. I liked that one free tactic I got. I am totally going to use it.

Also interestingly prices are going up. I guess its been discovered that if you price low - you wont' get a lot of people buy something. Only the really desperate people who will pay quite a lot are going to buy your course. THat's another unfortuntate trend in internet teaching.

On the plus side - so much good free advice on youtube. I have to say its a little like porn - the market is getting all messed up by free stuff. I hate making that comparison but it really fits. I'd like the trend to shift towards video analysis instead of watching canned videos. I feel that would be much more useful.

Yout would record some tennis from different angles - send it in and the pro would tell you your issues and give you specific exercises to correct YOUR particular issues.
 
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oble

Hall of Fame
#55
Hey, didn't know Ian had a paid course. He's a bit wordy for my taste, get to the point Ian!, but good stuff once he cough it out.
I think all of them are too wordy. The way they write their marketing emails and the way they talk in the videos are so 1990's infomercial style, it's sickening. I am honestly amazed that it still works in this age of the internet.
 
#56
Edit:

Deleted this content. People rather post slanderous crap for me posting it, rather than discuss it the merit of the info. So have your way.
 
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#59
I gave in and went through with payment of the 55% course because I really wanted to hear what Craig O’Shaugnessy had to say - at no time during the payment process did it say that I was going to be charged another $47 down the track.
So the first time you checked out, it was charging you $47x2 and now it is charging you $47. What happened? Was it an error on the FYB web page that has since been fixed?

Although Will responded to your original post and indicated that the course price should be $94.

Everything should be clearly labeled "2x$47" on the page (in huge text), and in the video as well, but if that wasn't your experience please point me in the right direction so I can see what's up.

Thanks!

Will
 
#60
What I got from it:

- Turns out approaching down the line is not the % play. All approaches should go to the backhand and deep with spin. Not right to the corner, but a metre or two in from the sideline for safety. Everyone can play a cross court forehand approach shot - its one of the easiest shots in tennis.
The main issue with approaching to the corner is not margin of error but it gives the opponent too much of an angle to reply with. That's why he advises approaching a bit towards the center. It reduces the angles.
 
#62
So the first time you checked out, it was charging you $47x2 and now it is charging you $47. What happened? Was it an error on the FYB web page that has since been fixed?

Although Will responded to your original post and indicated that the course price should be $94.
Nowhere did it say I would be charged later on. It all indicated one lump sum payment of $47.

Its like there is different versions of the same course going around.
 
#63
The main issue with approaching to the corner is not margin of error but it gives the opponent too much of an angle to reply with. That's why he advises approaching a bit towards the center. It reduces the angles.
Im sure he said to approach favoring the backhand side, in the 'C' area, just wide of the centre line. It reduced angles available to the opponent, and they are forced to use their 'shield' (backhand), and you'll very likely get a lob to put away as a result.

Craig believes the common thought of approaching down the line has been proven to not be the most effective play to win points according to his analysis.

Not that this analysis is that extensive - all he referenced was watching a few videos of a few of his players training indoors, rather than extensive match play data.
 
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#65
Im sure he said to approach favoring the backhand side, in the 'C' area, just wide of the centre line. It reduced angles available to the opponent, and they are forced to use their 'shield' (backhand), and you'll very likely get a lob to put away as a result.

Craig believes the common thought of approaching down the line has been proven to not be the most effective play to win points according to his analysis.

Not that this analysis is that extensive - all he referenced was watching a few videos of a few of his players training indoors, rather than extensive match play data.
Yes, approach towards the backhand is a good idea. I think that has always been the conventional advice. Craig just advises not to go so much to the bh corner (bit inwards from the sideline) for the above mentioned reasons.
 
#66
Yes, approach towards the backhand is a good idea. I think that has always been the conventional advice. Craig just advises not to go so much to the bh corner (bit inwards from the sideline) for the above mentioned reasons.
Conventional coaching books have always maintained approaching down the line
 
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#67
Conventional coaching books have always maintained approaching down the line
Approaching DTL is a great and favorable shot selection. Whenever approaching one should try to 1) rob your opponent of time and give yourself as much time as you can, 2) cause your opponent to have to run to get your approach shot and 3) hit a backhand to hit it. As many and as much of the three criteria you can fulfill the better the approach will be. But as a basic guideline, hitting DTL or inside out approach shots is a good default.

Approaching is about time and space: You want to need to cover the least amount of space possible, in the largest amount of time and force your opponent to cover the largest amount of space in the smallest amount of time.
 
#68
^^^Dude everyone in the forum knows what an approach shot is.. Hitting cross court approaches on the ad side to the backhand is not the usual DTL shot - and is said to be more effective according to FYB's guy.

That is pretty interesting stuff..
 
#69
Hitting down the line and following the ball in is geometrically the percentage play in terms of angle for the opponent to work with.

Chris O is saying the through his analysis its not the most effective.
 
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sureshs

Bionic Poster
#70
To be frank, if you complain about deceptive practices, is it then fair that you paraphrase the course and spoil the business for Will?
 
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sureshs

Bionic Poster
#73
"To put 'lipstick on a pig' is a rhetorical expression, used to convey the message that making superficial or cosmetic changes is a futile attempt to disguise the true nature of a product."
Exactly. "Basic instruction" is not something to be disguised or harmful. That is why your usage was wrong.

The other poster was spot on when he asked whether you meant the player buying the product. That is how I also read it. Rec players are pigs and money spent on advanced instruction is a futile attempt to mask the underlying bad product.
 
#74
Exactly. "Basic instruction" is not something to be disguised or harmful. That is why your usage was wrong.

The other poster was spot on when he asked whether you meant the player buying the product. That is how I also read it. Rec players are pigs and money spent on advanced instruction is a futile attempt to mask the underlying bad product.
The true nature of the product is that it is simple instruction that can be obtained from a good pro.
 

FitzRoy

Professional
#76
Hint: It's a fuzzy yellow pig. :D
I think I get you - I've always kind of interpreted the saying as though a pig is bad, but, actually thinking about it, buying a pig is something that on its own is neutral or positive. A lot of people might be looking to buy a pig (especially in whatever time period the phrase originated). The lipstick is an effort to make a pig appear better, when in fact it's still a pig.

What you're saying is that FYB is trying to dress up basic instruction as something more than it is?
 
#77
Don't know if anything changed... but I viewed this and understood immediately it would be two payments of 47.00, supported by the accompanying graphics.

Even the cart text displays $47 prominently with "per month for two months" in clear enough text. No problem with the honesty of this offer.





 
#78
Guess it looks kind of strange with the above being my first post (not a shill!)... I visit the site daily. After receiving the FYB 55% advantage offer, it looked good and I thought I'd come to TT.Warehouse to find out what the "community" thinks... and I was surprised enough at the reaction to leave my first post.

Still curious about the merits of the program itself.
 
#79
Guess it looks kind of strange with the above being my first post (not a shill!)... I visit the site daily. After receiving the FYB 55% advantage offer, it looked good and I thought I'd come to TT.Warehouse to find out what the "community" thinks... and I was surprised enough at the reaction to leave my first post.

Still curious about the merits of the program itself.
Yes, it sure looks strange, doesn't it?

Makes you look like an FYB employee.
 

jonestim

Hall of Fame
#81
From an email I just received:

"Question #3: What does it cost?

If you've been taking lesson after lesson, maybe for the last few months, or even years...

Trying to get over the hump, and beat that guy or gal you just can't figure out...

By "doubling down" on your forehand, backhand, or serve technique...

But it hasn't worked...

Then not only have you spent a lot of TIME, but also MONEY...

Without any more wins to show...

So while "The 55% Advantage" is one payment of $47...

The greater cost to you could be to do nothing differently, and continue doing the same thing you've been doing...

"

One payment. $47. That's what I signed up for.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#82
I think I get you - I've always kind of interpreted the saying as though a pig is bad, but, actually thinking about it, buying a pig is something that on its own is neutral or positive.
If you want to be sure, try using this phrase on a woman wearing lipstick and see if she thinks it is a neutral statement.
 
#84
Yes, it sure looks strange, doesn't it?

Makes you look like an FYB employee.
Yep- no way around that. But.. couldn't ignore the discussion- I saw the offer, seemed pretty straightforward- came to my tennis "info source" to see if it was worth buying... and was pretty surprised. Seemed clear to me... but... perhaps it was edited between the first post and my viewing. I'll have to start posting on Nadal v. Dokovic v. Fed GOAT debates to gain some credibility! Cheers-
 
#88
From an email I just received:

"Question #3: What does it cost?

If you've been taking lesson after lesson, maybe for the last few months, or even years...

Trying to get over the hump, and beat that guy or gal you just can't figure out...

By "doubling down" on your forehand, backhand, or serve technique...

But it hasn't worked...

Then not only have you spent a lot of TIME, but also MONEY...

Without any more wins to show...

So while "The 55% Advantage" is one payment of $47...

The greater cost to you could be to do nothing differently, and continue doing the same thing you've been doing...

"

One payment. $47. That's what I signed up for.
Me too.

FYB have stuffed up on rolling this one out. There are two versions of exactly the same course. It seems some are being charged $94 and some are being charged $47.....

Which course you get depends on what email you accessed the course from I think.
 
#91
FYB have stuffed up on rolling this one out. There are two versions of exactly the same course. It seems some are being charged $94 and some are being charged $47.....

Which course you get depends on what email you accessed the course from I think.
Maybe it's two different courses, with more content for the higher priced ones.
 
#93
Three different versions for $47, $94, or $194? Confusing at best, sleazy at worst.
How did you get to that $97 X 2 page?

I'm on the FYB mailing list and the only way I am able to access the "55%" course is by completing a quick personal "match killers" survey, which then takes me to a page with a $47 course price.

It would be simpler and less confusing to have all the courses listed at the official FYB.com site, but no course offerings are listed there.

But maybe the FYB business model is to sell everything through e-mail.
 
#94
How did you get to that $97 X 2 page?

I'm on the FYB mailing list and the only way I am able to access the "55%" course is by completing a quick personal "match killers" survey, which then takes me to a page with a $47 course price.

It would be simpler and less confusing to have all the courses listed at the official FYB.com site, but no course offerings are listed there.

But maybe the FYB business model is to sell everything through e-mail.
FYB sent me an e-mail saying 2 payments of $97. I thought it was a typo, so I clicked the link.
 
#95
How did you get to that $97 X 2 page?

I'm on the FYB mailing list and the only way I am able to access the "55%" course is by completing a quick personal "match killers" survey, which then takes me to a page with a $47 course price.

It would be simpler and less confusing to have all the courses listed at the official FYB.com site, but no course offerings are listed there.

But maybe the FYB business model is to sell everything through e-mail.
Yes thats what I did. I went on the FYB website - there is no acknowledgment of the course even existing.
 
#99
As said above, you shouldn't be allowed to posting his content.
Please explain.

People pay to watch movies, pay for books, pay for coaching lessons - are you saying they are not allowed to divulge the information they receive?

I never signed a disclosure agreement. I posted what I learnt from the course to generate discussion on the interesting points, but in true TW form it all just ends up being slanderous gibberish. Surprised USTA ratings haven't been raised yet.
 
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Please explain.

People pay to watch movies, pay for books, pay for coaching lessons - are you saying they are not allowed to divulge the information they receive?

I never signed a disclosure agreement. I posted what I learnt from the course to generate discussion on the interesting points, but in true TW form it all just ends up being slanderous gibberish. Surprised USTA ratings haven't been raised yet.
Books and movies are entertainment. Reading a summary of a book or movie won't give you the same experience. Online courses are information-based, so by posting the information, you're essentially giving away some of his value for free when it isn't yours to give. Coaching lessons are different because they're more specific to the student. That being said, for Will's sake, I hope there's more to his course than what you posted.
 
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