Very Interesting similarity between Roger Federer and Monica Seles

[FedSampras]

Interesting thread from another message board by Sam L

Monica Seles just before she got stabbed was in the same situation as...

... Roger Federer right now.

But with one less grand slam title. But Monica at that time was 19 and Roger is 24(?).

So anyway,

At that time Monica had the last 3 consecutive Australian Opens and French Opens.

Roger now has the last 4 consecutive Wimbledons and 3 consecutive US Opens.

Monica had also won 2 other US Opens.

Roger has won 2 other Australian Opens.

Monica hadn't won Wimbledon but she was a finalist the last time.

Roger hasn't won French Open but he is a reigning finalist.

Monica had won 8 out of the last 12 grand slams at that point. (66%)

Roger has won 9 out of the last 14 grand slams right now. (62%)

Monica's only rival during that time was Graf who won 2 Wimbledons but was 4 years older than her.

Roger's only rival right now is Nadal who won 2 French Opens and is 5 years younger than him.

 

[sypl]

Hate to sound like a sexist pig, but... women's tennis... c'mon

 

[Linda]

Hate to sound like a sexist pig,

do you really?

and the similarities are...interesting but until fed gets stabbed...they mean nothing.

 

[FedSampras]

yah, but fed doesn't have boobs

Yeh, Barring injury or stabbings, nothing would've stopped her and I guess the same goes for the unstoppable Fed.

IMO, Roger and Monica are the two greatest players ever.

 

[FedSampras]

do you really?

and the similarities are...interesting but until fed gets stabbed...they mean nothing.

Thank goodness Nadal is not from Germany or else... jk

 

[sureshs]

Hate to sound like a sexist pig, but... women's tennis... c'mon

If you sound like one, you probably are?

 

[sureshs]

Fed should be wary of some of the Nadal fans here ....

 

[scineram]

But he did not sound. LOL

 

[FedSampras]

Fed should be wary of some of the Nadal fans here ....

LOL...

 

[cricri]

Fed should be wary of some of the Nadal fans here ....

That is so true. Hope it never happens

 

[jmsx521]

Fed should be wary of some of the Nadal fans here ....

Fed's camp was already aware of that; that's why they designed his special jacket that he wears often, which has armor coating under the cloth on the back side.

 

[jmsx521]

Hate to sound like a sexist pig, but... women's tennis... c'mon

Sypl, women's tennis at that time was great to watch. Seles vs. Graf rivalry, plus Navratilova still playing quite well. W/o the stabbing in 93 I can see Monica dominating women's tennis till about 2000 and owning about 15 more Slam Titles.

 

[sypl]

Sypl, women's tennis at that time was great to watch. Seles vs. Graf rivalry, plus Navratilova still playing quite well. W/o the stabbing in 93 I can see Monica dominating women's tennis till about 2000 and owning about 15 more Slam Titles.

Thing is, it wasn't really a rivalry, and you sort of allude to it in your own post. Yes, if she hadn't been stabbed she probably would have gone on and won that many slams, because the truth is that apart from at Wimbledon she was completely dominant, even over Graf. I see this 'rivalry' as a Henman-Federer type rivalry, where Tim won something like 6 of their first 7 meetings, and hasn't won in about 8 attempts since. Seles eclipsed Graf - she was simply better. And other than those two there really wasn't ANYONE even close. That's not fun to watch. I'm not a sexist, because I don't hate women. I just hate women playing bad tennis.

 

[capriatifanatic]

Seles might have dominated womens tennis until the end of 1998, or she might have dominated until the end of 1995 and seen her dominance end by shoulder injuries/distraction of father illness. If her dominance last until the end of 1998 she probably ends up winning 24 total slams; 2.5 average a year from 93-98 giving her 14 more slams + 8 already had, then I would add another 2 slams at some point from 99-2002. If her dominace lasted until the end of 1995 only she probably ends up winning 16 total slams; 2.5 average a year from 93-95 giving her another 6 maybe + 8 already had, then I would add from 96-99 another 2 slams at some point. So it would all depend whether her dominance ended after 1995 due to shoulder injury/
fathers illness distraction, or ended after 1998. The reason I would give after 1998 as the other example is the power hitters first came into their own in 1998 like Davenport, Venus, but they would have needed a full year of that to build the confidence and start inflicting the damage on Monica to push her out of the dominant role. If her her dominance ends on 1998 she either ends up the best ever, or 2nd best ever behind Navratilova depending whether she wins atleast 2 Wimbledons or not. If her dominance ends on 1995 she is not the best ever, but in the top 6 probably.

Graf was not a great rival to Seles at all. It was a boring rivalry. Even Capriati has more natural talent then Graf but never fulfilled it all the way, although I still admire her for making the most of a final chance, even though she couldnt do all she could have done before, she still managed to salvage enough of her abilities to make herself a great Champion with 3 slams.

 

[sureshs]

Fed's camp was already aware of that; that's why they designed his special jacket that he wears often, which has armor coating under the cloth on the back side.

Plus, nobody can get thru Mirka.

 

[psamp14]

i know this is like the 3rd time i'm saying this, and apologies if you've also been reading the boards for many months and just signed up, but this topic isnt a good one....

what type of comparision is this? nothing of such horror is going to happen again...at least we should all wish not...

 

[FedSampras]

i know this is like the 3rd time i'm saying this, and apologies if you've also been reading the boards for many months and just signed up, but this topic isnt a good one....

what type of comparision is this? nothing of such horror is going to happen again...at least we should all wish not...

Did you even read the whole post? Are you a Nadal fan?

The comparison was on how the unparalled dominance of Roger and Monica were so much alike.

Again, IMO, Fed and Monica are the two greatest players ever. I don't think there's any player on the ATP tour right now that can seriously challenge Fed.

 

[FedSampras]

Plus, nobody can get thru Mirka.

True

 

[superstition]

I think Martina took a set off Seles at Wimbledon when Seles was in her prime. And, she did beat Seles, I believe, at at least one tournament when Seles was in her prime. Martina also beat Graf in a semi-final (1992?). In 1990, Garrison beat Graf in a semi at Wimbledon and Martina won it. Considering how people think there wasn't depth... how many of you know who Garrison is? Even when Martina was 86-1 in 1983 she had a loss, to Sukova. There were plenty of good players against her, just as there are plenty of good players against Federer today. Contrary to the person who said Graf had less talent than Seles... Graf really pushed Martina right away, even though Navratilova was near the height of her powers. The thing is... some tennis players just don't last as long as others. In modern tennis, injury from hard courts and stiff racquets/string and ball speed dramatically shortens careers, particularly in women's tennis. But, some players last longer anyway, like Navratilova, and others fade quickly. Graf was fading when Seles was at the height of her career. It's not that Graf was less talented.

 

[superstition]

I don't think Seles can be called the greatest female player of all time because she wasn't much of a volleyer, and her noise-making was a distracting element of gamesmanship. She didn't do it in practice, and hit the ball just as hard.

Baseline bashing is nice, but it's not the whole game. I think calling anyone the greatest of all time is a bit specious, since each legendary player has a particularly set of strengths and weaknesses.

 

[psamp14]

Did you even read the whole post? Are you a Nadal fan?

The comparison was on how the unparalled dominance of Roger and Monica were so much alike.

Again, IMO, Fed and Monica are the two greatest players ever. I don't think there's any player on the ATP tour right now that can seriously challenge Fed.

i read your whole post, i am not a nadal fan, although i admire his mentality of never giving up, and i also believe no one can challenge federer, but except for nadal...

i just felt bringing up a sad thing like seles' stabbing wasnt necessary, its like saying maybe federer's going to get stabbed...no one wants to have that happen

you could have just compared their overall careers so far but just my opinion

i respect your post and thats why i responded

no hard feelings FedSampras, just i'm seeing so many posts by people who have even less than 10-15 posts

 

[FedSampras]

I think Martina took a set off Seles at Wimbledon when Seles was in her prime. And, she did beat Seles, I believe, at at least one tournament when Seles was in her prime. Martina also beat Graf in a semi-final (1992?). In 1990, Garrison beat Graf in a semi at Wimbledon and Martina won it. Considering how people think there wasn't depth... how many of you know who Garrison is? Even when Martina was 86-1 in 1983 she had a loss, to Sukova. There were plenty of good players against her, just as there are plenty of good players against Federer today. Contrary to the person who said Graf had less talent than Seles... Graf really pushed Martina right away, even though Navratilova was near the height of her powers. The thing is... some tennis players just don't last as long as others. In modern tennis, injury from hard courts and stiff racquets/string and ball speed dramatically shortens careers, particularly in women's tennis. But, some players last longer anyway, like Navratilova, and others fade quickly. Graf was fading when Seles was at the height of her career. It's not that Graf was less talented.

Navratilova was already past her prime when Graf pushed her away from the top. By the time Graf hit her best years in 1987, Martina had already won 9 Wimbledon crowns + 8 grand slams, and was in her thirties. Yet, this did not prevent Navratilova from having a winning record against Graf in the Slams. What really surprised me was that Graf did not have a winning record against Navratilova.

Graf was still in her peak when Monica pushed her away from the top. I agree with the other poster that Graf was not as naturally talented as Jennifer or Monica but she was an extremely good athlete. Most of her wins were attributed to her athletic abilities more than her talent. Graf only began to win again after Monica was pushed out by the stabbing.

 

[FedSampras]

i read your whole post, i am not a nadal fan, although i admire his mentality of never giving up, and i also believe no one can challenge federer, but except for nadal...

i just felt bringing up a sad thing like seles' stabbing wasnt necessary, its like saying maybe federer's going to get stabbed...no one wants to have that happen

you could have just compared their overall careers so far but just my opinion

i respect your post and thats why i responded

no hard feelings FedSampras, just i'm seeing so many posts by people who have even less than 10-15 posts

Thanks for your honest opinion. It is really impossible for a tennis fan (Solid Fed fan) like myself not to bring up the sad Seles stabbing when talking about Monica. It is such a big part of tennis history that you can still read it in news 13 years after the crime was committed.

I think Federer and all of the top tennis stars are very aware of the tragedy that happen to Monica and the reality that it could still happen. However, security measures had improved tremendously since 1993 and hopefully, it will never happen again.

 

[psamp14]

it is very aware that some fans are not nice like back in hamburg in 1993...i have an old "tennis" magazine from that time, where a picture is taken of the guy leaning over while seles is sitting on the changeover...when i read that in the magazine like five years ago, thats when i first knew that it happened, and where seles disappeared to....

seeing lleyton hewitt as of late hiring bodyguards while going to argentina for davis cup made me sort of think, wow, he knows how dangerous it is but will still go play, hiring bodyguards...risky but glad nothing major happened except for probably long booing...

 

[jmsx521]

...no hard feelings FedSampras, just i'm seeing so many posts by people who have even less than 10-15 posts

PSamp14, this is the second time today I see you mention something in disapproval of newer members with less thread-postings.

Is there a seniority rule for thread-posters in TW forums? Should people with less thread-postings pay more respect to people with more thread-postings? Are the threads that newer members post more stupid... (and they should better watch-out and learn from the more experienced with more thread-postings)? Are stupid thread-postings polluting TW forums and is there a certain scale that decides what is a good and bad posting? Do people who have more thread-postings have some type of pride over people with less thread-postings?

I think TW forums are for anyone who wants to post messages about tennis. Whether beginner or advanced. If the message is not interesting, no need to read it.

 

[Condoleezza]

Interesting thread from another message board by Sam L

Monica Seles just before she got stabbed was in the same situation as...

... Roger Federer right now.
.....

I don't agree.
Seles toughest opponent, Graf, had won the last 2 Wimbledons (W being by far the most prestigous tournament in the world).
And Seles was only 56-5 win/loss while Graf was 80-7.
Seles had only a narrow lead in the WTA rankings.

Fed is completely dominating the tour, though.
Has twice the rankings points Nadal has.

So - no comparison.

Condi

 

[Condoleezza]

Yeh, Barring injury or stabbings, nothing would've stopped her and I guess the same goes for the unstoppable Fed.

IMO, Roger and Monica are the two greatest players ever.

I don't think so.
Please don't forget that Seles's winning percentage in her two best years (1991/92) was WORSE than Graf's winning percentage in a ELEVEN-year period (1986-96)!!!!!!!!!!

So Graf even with her many ups and downs was BETTER over a very, very long time-frame than Seles during her short peak.

That is irrefutable proof how far superior Graf was to Seles.
Seles is in the Mandlikova, Sanchez, Hingis, Williams mould.
Far below of Evert, Navratilova, Graf level.

Condi

 

[Condoleezza]

Sypl, women's tennis at that time was great to watch. Seles vs. Graf rivalry, plus Navratilova still playing quite well. W/o the stabbing in 93 I can see Monica dominating women's tennis till about 2000 and owning about 15 more Slam Titles.

But how would she have beaten Graf indoors, on grass or on fast HC (USO)?
I'm trying to visualize it ..... doesn't work, though.

BTW, Seles returned to game at age 21. Do you want to say she suffered from the stabbing for the next 10 years ..... ?

Condi

 

[Condoleezza]

That is so true. Hope it never happens

Fed would be playing again within a few months.
Or do you think he would be out of the game for more than 2 years because of a minor stab wound .......... ?

 

[Condoleezza]

Thing is, it wasn't really a rivalry, and you sort of allude to it in your own post. Yes, if she hadn't been stabbed she probably would have gone on and won that many slams, because the truth is that apart from at Wimbledon she was completely dominant, even over Graf. I see this 'rivalry' as a Henman-Federer type rivalry, where Tim won something like 6 of their first 7 meetings, and hasn't won in about 8 attempts since. Seles eclipsed Graf - she was simply better. ....

Seles never ever beat Graf on grass, indoors or on fast (USO style) hard-courts.
Graf won 5 of 7 matches against #1 Seles.
Graf beat Seles like a drum in their only fast HC match (6-4 6-3 in 1991) and completely destroyed her twice on grass (6-0 6-1 in 1989 and 6-2 6-1 in 1992).

Graf would have been #1 in April 1993 (stabbing time) if she had won FO 92 (she lost 8-10 in 3rd set). It was a very close race in 1993 between peak Seles and below-peak Graf. Graf of 87-89 and 94-96 was far better than Graf in early 90ies. Every stats show this, everybody knows that.

Only rabid Seles fans still try to twist the truth ....

Condi

 

[ATPballkid]

Seles never ever beat Graf on grass, indoors or on fast (USO style) hard-courts.
Graf won 5 of 7 matches against #1 Seles.
Graf beat Seles like a drum in their only fast HC match (6-4 6-3 in 1991) and completely destroyed her twice on grass (6-0 6-1 in 1989 and 6-2 6-1 in 1992).

Graf would have been #1 in April 1993 (stabbing time) if she had won FO 92 (she lost 8-10 in 3rd set). It was a very close race in 1993 between peak Seles and below-peak Graf. Graf of 87-89 and 94-96 was far better than Graf in early 90ies. Every stats show this, everybody knows that.

Only rabid Seles fans still try to twist the truth ....

Condi

The team of Graf / Parche make up one of the best women's singles combinations in tennis history.

Graf / Parche was solid ... Graf / Parche will never have the record for most Wimbledons, most U.S. Opens, most Australian Opens, most French Opens, most grass court Slams won, most clay court slams won, most Tour Championshps or most WTA Tour singles titles ... Gunther / Graf never did much in doubles ... but she was solid.

Graf / Parche combined to form one of the all-time top 4 or 5 on every surface in women's tennis history. That is unique.

The 3 areas where she has the records (but she will not keep them forever) is in

weeks at #1
most U.S. Opens on hardcourts ..
most hardcourt Grand Slam singles titles.

Like I said, the team of Graf / Parche make up one of the best women's singles combos in tennis history.

 

[ATPballkid]

I don't agree.
Seles toughest opponent, Graf, had won the last 2 Wimbledons (W being by far the most prestigous tournament in the world).
And Seles was only 56-5 win/loss while Graf was 80-7.
Seles had only a narrow lead in the WTA rankings.

Fed is completely dominating the tour, though.
Has twice the rankings points Nadal has.

So - no comparison.

Condi

Or we can let Gunther stab Seles so Graf can be #1 again and regain her "dominance.

Unfortunate, but true - Graf* will always have a giant asterisk against her Slam count. Those post stabbing ones that is. 11 of them.

* - Gunter aided.

 

[ATPballkid]

But how would she have beaten Graf indoors, on grass or on fast HC (USO)?
I'm trying to visualize it ..... doesn't work, though.

BTW, Seles returned to game at age 21. Do you want to say she suffered from the stabbing for the next 10 years ..... ?

Condi

Where would Graf have been in the 1990s without Gunther Parche?

For you to not give Gunther his rightful place along with Steffi certainly takes away from your credibility on here, .

The #1 player in women's tennis in the early years of the 1990s was clearly Monica Seles and there was no end in sight for that domination.

 

[Condoleezza]

The team of Graf / Parche make up one of the best women's singles combinations in tennis history.
....

Graf did win more than 70 % of her matches against #1 Seles without Parche's help.

As a matter of fact, the stabbing cost Graf some slams as she obviously lacked motivation in 94 (and lost FO, Wimbledon and USO that year).

Condi

 

[diegaa]

PSamp14, this is the second time today I see you mention something in disapproval of newer members with less thread-postings.

Is there a seniority rule for thread-posters in TW forums? Should people with less thread-postings pay more respect to people with more thread-postings? Are the threads that newer members post more stupid... (and they should better watch-out and learn from the more experienced with more thread-postings)? Are stupid thread-postings polluting TW forums and is there a certain scale that decides what is a good and bad posting? Do people who have more thread-postings have some type of pride over people with less thread-postings?

I think TW forums are for anyone who wants to post messages about tennis. Whether beginner or advanced. If the message is not interesting, no need to read it.

i second this.

 

[psamp14]

PSamp14, this is the second time today I see you mention something in disapproval of newer members with less thread-postings.

Is there a seniority rule for thread-posters in TW forums? Should people with less thread-postings pay more respect to people with more thread-postings? Are the threads that newer members post more stupid... (and they should better watch-out and learn from the more experienced with more thread-postings)? Are stupid thread-postings polluting TW forums and is there a certain scale that decides what is a good and bad posting? Do people who have more thread-postings have some type of pride over people with less thread-postings?

I think TW forums are for anyone who wants to post messages about tennis. Whether beginner or advanced. If the message is not interesting, no need to read it.

in more than less cases, those with lesser post counts make some threads which have nothing to do with common sense like nadalgirl26 and her threads praising nadal and winning 25 slams or whatever...

and i know i have brought it up, not 2 times, but 4 times at least, about those with like less than 15 posts already have made 2-3 threads...

there is no rule on it, and i did also mention that the topic of the thread was a good one, but i just pointed it out...

of course there are many new posters who have been reading the boards for months to years or whatever....i too used to just read the boards for months before i started to think about becoming a member...

 

[FedSampras]

Where would Graf have been in the 1990s without Gunther Parche?

For you to not give Gunther his rightful place along with Steffi certainly takes away from your credibility on here, .

The #1 player in women's tennis in the early years of the 1990s was clearly Monica Seles and there was no end in sight for that domination.

Sports had never seen anything like it. The only thing worse than the fact that the offender never served time behind bars is that he succeeded in his mad objective: ensuring that Steffi Graf would proceed to become the more accomplished tennis champion. Seles returned to competitive tennis but never played with the flair she had before she was wounded.

 

[FedSampras]

When will you stop. It's an old old debate. Why do you still care. Both players aren't active, you and all your other nicknames (new posters my ass), pop up in every thread and just cut and paste the same old song. Go ********** to you beloved Seles. Everyone agrees that she is like the female Roger Federer, with her footwork and speed and all court game, her great serve and fitness, she is the best, really. Graf couldn't even win a wimbledon at age 30, only has seven wimbledon titles, lousy backhand, strange forehand, you are so right.

You need to take some meds, dude. You are so consumed by this Graf worship and hatred for Seles. Your posts are pathetic.

Graf's game was cayote ugly ( as Peter Bodo of Tennis Mag calls it) with her high ball toss, unorthodox awkward forehand, weak slice backhand etc..What Graf lack in natural talent, she makes it up by being fast on the court. I never enjoyed watching Steffi on the court. Her game was as boring as personality. Seles was amazing. At 16 years old she was the breadwinner for entire family but when she stepped out on a court, you could never tell that she had any such pressures on her. She was fierce during the match and a giggly schoolgirl after. She was real. Seles was only a teenager but she had replaced Graf as the dominant player on the tour by virture of her tenacity and sheer will. Seles will always have the most enjoyable game, in my opinion, to watch. You could see her constructing points like an artist. She pinned them behind the baseline with her power, moving them side to side, she would inevitably force them to throw up a defensive shortball which Seles would leap on and pound at impossible angles in open court. Her opponents KNEW what she was doing but were powerless to keep her from doing it because of the force of her play.

 

[Condoleezza]

Sports had never seen anything like it. The only thing worse than the fact that the offender never served time behind bars is that he succeeded in his mad objective: ensuring that Steffi Graf would proceed to become the more accomplished tennis champion. Seles returned to competitive tennis but never played with the flair she had before she was wounded.

Parche would not have dreamed that Seles would be out of the game for more than a few months.

BTW, Seles was distracted far more by her father slowly dying of cancer than by this minor stab wound, IMO.
Or do you want to tell me that the recollection of the stabbing incident was more gruesome than watching her father fighting against the big C?????

Condi

 

[Condoleezza]

You need to take some meds, dude. You are so consumed by this Graf worship and hatred for Seles. Your posts are pathetic.

Graf's game was cayote ugly ( as Peter Bodo of Tennis Mag calls it) with her high ball toss, unorthodox awkward forehand, weak slice backhand etc..What Graf lack in natural talent, she makes it up by being fast on the court. I never enjoyed watching Steffi on the court. ....

Well, heavy metal headbangers usually never enjoy Beethoven or Mozart.
Does this say Beethoven and Mozart are bad composers?
I don't think so.

So "FedSampras" types not enjoying Graf is a great compliment for Graf, actually ...

Condi

 

[Warriorroger]

Thanks for the advice!!

You need to take some meds, dude. You are so consumed by this Graf worship and hatred for Seles. Your posts are pathetic.

Graf's game was cayote ugly ( as Peter Bodo of Tennis Mag calls it) with her high ball toss, unorthodox awkward forehand, weak slice backhand etc..What Graf lack in natural talent, she makes it up by being fast on the court. I never enjoyed watching Steffi on the court. Her game was as boring as personality. Seles was amazing. At 16 years old she was the breadwinner for entire family but when she stepped out on a court, you could never tell that she had any such pressures on her. She was fierce during the match and a giggly schoolgirl after. She was real. Seles was only a teenager but she had replaced Graf as the dominant player on the tour by virture of her tenacity and sheer will. Seles will always have the most enjoyable game, in my opinion, to watch. You could see her constructing points like an artist. She pinned them behind the baseline with her power, moving them side to side, she would inevitably force them to throw up a defensive shortball which Seles would leap on and pound at impossible angles in open court. Her opponents KNEW what she was doing but were powerless to keep her from doing it because of the force of her play.

 

[FedSampras]

Well, heavy metal headbangers usually never enjoy Beethoven or Mozart.
Does this say Beethoven and Mozart are bad composers?
I don't think so.

So "FedSampras" types not enjoying Graf is a great compliment for Graf, actually ...

Condi

There is no doubt a giant asterisk (knife?) should be placed next to Graf's records.

 

[Warriorroger]

You need to take some meds, dude. You are so consumed by this Graf worship and hatred for Seles. Your posts are pathetic.

Graf's game was cayote ugly ( as Peter Bodo of Tennis Mag calls it) with her high ball toss, unorthodox awkward forehand, weak slice backhand etc..What Graf lack in natural talent, she makes it up by being fast on the court. I never enjoyed watching Steffi on the court. Her game was as boring as personality. Seles was amazing. At 16 years old she was the breadwinner for entire family but when she stepped out on a court, you could never tell that she had any such pressures on her. She was fierce during the match and a giggly schoolgirl after. She was real. Seles was only a teenager but she had replaced Graf as the dominant player on the tour by virture of her tenacity and sheer will. Seles will always have the most enjoyable game, in my opinion, to watch. You could see her constructing points like an artist. She pinned them behind the baseline with her power, moving them side to side, she would inevitably force them to throw up a defensive shortball which Seles would leap on and pound at impossible angles in open court. Her opponents KNEW what she was doing but were powerless to keep her from doing it because of the force of her play.

 

[Condoleezza]

There is no doubt a giant asterisk (knife?) should be placed next to Graf's records.

Why this?

Condi

 

[FedSampras]

Parche would not have dreamed that Seles would be out of the game for more than a few months.


Condi

The point is Graf was the second best and Monica was the undisputed #1.

Graf's 11 GS after the stabbing.

Seles>Graf + Gunther + Knife

Graf + Gunther = 22 DIRTY slams.

 

[Condoleezza]

The point is Graf was the second best and Monica was the undisputed #1.
....

"Undisputed"?
When Seles had lost 3 of the last 5 matches against Graf?
Two of these losses being 4-6,3-6 an 2-6, 1-6 thrashings?
While her two wins were only hard-fought 3-setters?
And while Graf had won the two most prestigious tournaments in the last 2 years (Wimbledon 91 and Wimbledon 92)?
While Seles was only 56-5 in last 12 months before the stabbing but Graf 80-7?

Are you sure that it is legal what you are smoking??

 

[FedSampras]

"Undisputed"?
When Seles had lost 3 of the last 5 matches against Graf?
Two of these losses being 4-6,3-6 an 2-6, 1-6 thrashings?
While her two wins were only hard-fought 3-setters?
And while Graf had won the two most prestigious tournaments in the last 2 years (Wimbledon 91 and Wimbledon 92)?
While Seles was only 56-5 in last 12 months before the stabbing but Graf 80-7?

Are you sure that it is legal what you are smoking??

There's really nothing to brag about. Graf + Gunther > Donald Duck.

Gunther knifing Seles = 22 Grand Slams for Graf*

 

[sypl]

Parche would not have dreamed that Seles would be out of the game for more than a few months.

Is this a joke? Do you think his thought process was, "I'M GONNA STAB HER RIGHT IN THE BACK WITH A BIG KNIFE.... but only plunge it in deep enough to make her miss a few months. Gosh, I hope I don't do any permanent damage."?

 

[ATPballkid]

"Undisputed"?
When Seles had lost 3 of the last 5 matches against Graf?
Two of these losses being 4-6,3-6 an 2-6, 1-6 thrashings?
While her two wins were only hard-fought 3-setters?
And while Graf had won the two most prestigious tournaments in the last 2 years (Wimbledon 91 and Wimbledon 92)?
While Seles was only 56-5 in last 12 months before the stabbing but Graf 80-7?

Are you sure that it is legal what you are smoking??

There is essentially no way that Steffi Graf would have been the top women's tennis player of the 1990s without a fan of hers stabbing Monica Seles in the back with a knife.

Of course, Navratilova was the female player of the decade for the 1980s ... Monica Seles was well on her way to being the female player of the 1990s until a Graf fan stabbed Seles in the back with a knife.

 

[anointedone]

Oh this stupid topic. YAAAAWWWWWNNNNN! Seles fans: Graf only won so many slams due to the stabbing. It was all Parche. It was all Parche. Graf won so many slams due to the stabbing. Graf is not that good because she won so many slams due to the stabbing. Parche gave her so many slams. Stop staying Graf is great. Graf fans: Graf won many more slams then Seles end of the story. You dont know what would have happened without the stabbing. Facts are facts, what ifs are what ifs.....

10 hours later, Seles fans: Graf slams, Gunther, Graf slams, Gunter, Graf slams stabbing. Graf fans: Graf won more, Seles won less, Graf won more, you dont know what would have happened, facts are Graf won more.

That is all I am going to say, I am not going to get into this STUPID STUPID STUPID debate.