Very Interesting similarity between Roger Federer and Monica Seles
- Thread starter FedSampras
- Start date
FedSampras
Semi-Pro
anointedone said:
Please read more carefully, YOU are clearly so defensive that your reading skills are going out the window!!!
By the way, do you have selective reading skills? LOL!!! You are obviously a knife fan yourself judging by your very bias post. You are so predictable dude. I am not impressed with those who choose to follow her, her fanatics, so to speak. You can say alot about someone from their followers, and Graf's fans, to me, seem to be a very sad bunch. Thank goodness Federer fans are decent, knowledgeable and classy.
The truth was Poor PinocchiaGraf was on the verge of retiring back in 1993 before the stabbing of World number one player in the world Monica Seles came as a blessing for Graf's carreer. Back then, Graf was just the underdog, she could not even reach the finals in most of the big tournaments simply because she had lost her self-confidence because of Seles, she was like Hingis when Williams arrived on tour; In PinocchiaGraf's mind it must have been amazingly pleasant to realise in May 1993 that her main rival in big tournies would have been Arantxa instead of Monica. Did i say MAIN RIVAL? Well, there was no real rivalry in those years between Seles and Graf: 7 slams out of 9 (not competing in one of those and losing in the final of the other ) and 2 Masters for Seles and only 2 slams (one without Seles ) for Graf in 1991-January 1993: can you call this a rivalry?
As I said, Seles was dominating the sport and PinocchiaGraf was only gathering the crumbs. The stabbing forced out of the game the best player in the world and that's all. Noone had ever broken in like this on either side of the sport. Not Borg or Evert or McEnroe or anybody. 8 majors at 19 . Imagine what would have been of Navratilova's carreer with Evert stabbed away from tennis or viceversa. That's what happened to Seles and Graf. They should add Parche's name to Graf's name in the records when they talk about Graf's results in the second part of her carreer, the part that began on 30 April 1993, after Parche had stabbed Seles.
One psychotic PinocchiaGraf fan will, as always, find the chance to flood us with his statistics, but there is nothing to discuss really: it was only after that Seles was stabbed that Graf found her way to win again. The truth is: PinocchiaGraf was a terrific athlete, Seles was born as a tennis player , she just had that talent within : she didn't look as she had the legs to cover the court the way she did, she got to the ball and then, half the time, her opponent never saw the next angle coming. Graf, with all her muscles and athleticism, was never more resilient than she was at the 1992 French Open final, that match would have been hers against any other opponent, but Seles would not give it up.
FedSampras
Semi-Pro
Rabbit said:
That's very interesting rabbit. That's kinda weird. Thank goodness Nadal does not have a fan named Gunther.
FedSampras
Semi-Pro
True...........
Sunny014
Legend
Came across this thread just now when I was searching something in this forum.
I guess today 14-15 years down the line Federer and Monica Seles are at extremely opposite ends.
To end Federer's run a young Rival Nadal came up just like to Stop Stefi Graf a young rival Monica Seles came up, only difference is some ****** stabbed Monica with a knife and gave Stefi 7-8 extra slams that she would not have had otherwise, however Federer didn't have any such fortune/Rafa didn't suffer Seles's misfortune ...... today 15 years later Rafa is on 20 slams levelled with the great Federer and set to cross his tally.
Federer is the real GOAT while Stefi is a fake imposter, Glad Serena is the GOAT now !
cc @Sunny Ali Sir
I guess today 14-15 years down the line Federer and Monica Seles are at extremely opposite ends.
To end Federer's run a young Rival Nadal came up just like to Stop Stefi Graf a young rival Monica Seles came up, only difference is some ****** stabbed Monica with a knife and gave Stefi 7-8 extra slams that she would not have had otherwise, however Federer didn't have any such fortune/Rafa didn't suffer Seles's misfortune ...... today 15 years later Rafa is on 20 slams levelled with the great Federer and set to cross his tally.
Federer is the real GOAT while Stefi is a fake imposter, Glad Serena is the GOAT now !
cc @Sunny Ali Sir
I was a Seles fan myself, but I don't think it's fair to blame Steffi or disparage her. She was amazing before Seles. And, yes, Seles had her number for those two or three years, but that doesn't mean Steffi couldn't have rebounded at some point. Nadal and Nole have each had dominant runs over the other. Fed finally had a dominant run over Nadal after a decade of near futility. It SUCKS the world didn't get to five or six more years of Seles v Graf, but Steffi still deserves respect. I just think we need to NOT forget Seles. She should be talked about in the GOAT along with Serena and Steffi.Came across this thread just now when I was searching something in this forum.
I guess today 14-15 years down the line Federer and Monica Seles are at extremely opposite ends.
To end Federer's run a young Rival Nadal came up just like to Stop Stefi Graf a young rival Monica Seles came up, only difference is some ****** stabbed Monica with a knife and gave Stefi 7-8 extra slams that she would not have had otherwise, however Federer didn't have any such fortune/Rafa didn't suffer Seles's misfortune ...... today 15 years later Rafa is on 20 slams levelled with the great Federer and set to cross his tally.
Federer is the real GOAT while Stefi is a fake imposter, Glad Serena is the GOAT now !
cc @Sunny Ali Sir
ibbi
Talk Tennis Guru
People make the comparison between the rivalries a lot, but the real difference is that Nadal owned Federer, where as Seles I think beat Graf twice in a row maybe one time, and trailed the head to head even during her prime years. Graf fell off, Seles wasn't holding her down.
Graf won more slams post stabbing, and monica won 8-12 pre. She was younger, Graf was done. Everything else is stupid. She vultured those slams as beating trash such as the spanish bulldog and the like. not sure how many Monica ends up winning but she would have had more than Graf had they competed against one another
D
Deleted member 771911
Guest
Imagine how it was for Steffi. She had had a fabulous career already before 1993. She was making slam finals again and pushing Seles all the way. She was beating Seles in non slam events and at Wimbledon. She was supremely fit with a new coach in Heinz Gunthardt and things were going well for her. It is is quite possible Seles would have had a blip between 1993 and 1996 and Graf would won a few more slams, and that she would have sneaked a couple of slams with Seles playing well anyway.
Then, Seles gets stabbed and it all changes. Graf is No.1 again and the slam favorite. And everyone is saying it is because of the stabbing. Graf had to carry a much blighted tour through 93 and the pressure told at RG 94, Wimbledon and the USO. She finally got herself back together for that incredible 95 and 96. Look how fit she was then compared to everyone else.
My point is, Graf did get more slams than she would have without the stabbing. But do not discount her work ethic and the determination and how having a rival like Seles pushed her to new levels. Steffi could always dig deep and she would have continued doing so without the stabbing.
Then, Seles gets stabbed and it all changes. Graf is No.1 again and the slam favorite. And everyone is saying it is because of the stabbing. Graf had to carry a much blighted tour through 93 and the pressure told at RG 94, Wimbledon and the USO. She finally got herself back together for that incredible 95 and 96. Look how fit she was then compared to everyone else.
My point is, Graf did get more slams than she would have without the stabbing. But do not discount her work ethic and the determination and how having a rival like Seles pushed her to new levels. Steffi could always dig deep and she would have continued doing so without the stabbing.
USO
Banned
Seles reached her prime in 1990 when she won 9 titles. Between 1990-1993 until the stabbing Seles lead Graf 4-3 overall and 3-1 in slam finals. Don't let the 3 wins that Graf had over a 15 year old outside of the Top 10 Seles in 1989 fool you. Seles was better than Graf and that's why she was stabbed. She would have been the favorite in 1993-1996 as nobody new emerged before 1997 Hingis.
Is this a joke? Even today you have people claiming that Graf is the GOAT even better than Serena, the stabbing didn't hurt her. Most people just look at her slam tally and ignore the effect of the Seles stabbing. Don't feel sorry for Graf, you should feel sorry for Seles instead. After the stabbing even Sanchez Vicario got to win 3 slams while Seles only 1. Sad.
roysid
Legend
I think the op must be high. Federer similar to seles. Lol.
Seriously Federer s career trajectory was very similar to Graf, not Seles.
Dominated the whole tour with forehand, serve , movement, court sense etc. For 3-4 years. Only weakness was single handed backhand which nobody could exploit.
Until the left handed slayer came into scene i.e Seles and Nadal and toppled the king or queen.
Seles in RG 1992 and Nadal in W 2008. So far exactly similar, but what did not natch was a crazy Swiss didn't pluck out a knife and hit Nadal. The Swiss are very gentleman u know.
So while Graf utlilized Seles absence, Federer had to deal with Nadal and later Djokovic.
Seriously Federer s career trajectory was very similar to Graf, not Seles.
Dominated the whole tour with forehand, serve , movement, court sense etc. For 3-4 years. Only weakness was single handed backhand which nobody could exploit.
Until the left handed slayer came into scene i.e Seles and Nadal and toppled the king or queen.
Seles in RG 1992 and Nadal in W 2008. So far exactly similar, but what did not natch was a crazy Swiss didn't pluck out a knife and hit Nadal. The Swiss are very gentleman u know.
So while Graf utlilized Seles absence, Federer had to deal with Nadal and later Djokovic.
Sunny014
Legend
Wrong .... Seles had beaten Stefi 3 out of the last 4 times they faced each other in slams before the stabbing
Infact Out of the last 9 slams between Aus 91 to Aus 93 Seles had won 7 of those slams while Stefi won 2 of the remaining slams (wimbledons) and in the second of those 2 wins of Stefi it was Seles who took her to 5 sets like Nadal took Fed to 5 sets in 07
So a defeat on Grass as well was coming for Stefi and yes Seles was still 19 when stabbed, she had a decade ahead of her, she would have won most of the slams
She would have been on 20-22 slams for sure and Stefi would have been on 13-14 slams if the stabbing never happened.
Sunny014
Legend
NO chance ....
She had won 7 out of the last 9 slams before stabbing and beaten Stefi in 3 out of last 4 slams they faced each other.
She is form Yugoslavia, people from those strife torn countries are mentally tough, see Djokovic, sameway Seles herself would have never let Stefi (who was 4 years older) to gain any edge over her and as Seles would have entered her 20s (she was still a teenager when stabbed) steffi would have been in her mid 20s and went down even more as she approached her late 20s .......
Stefi is very lucky !!!
Sunny014
Legend
ibbi
Talk Tennis Guru
This is, um, something...I don't know what you're claiming is "Wrong" nothing I said is wrong.
Seles took over as best in the world in 1991 through the stabbing in 93.
Fact. During that period the head to head is Graf 3 Seles 2.
Fact. Steffi's 3 wins came on hard, grass, and clay.
Fact. The major final they played in this period on Seles' favourite surface finished 10-8 in the third.
Fact. In the major final they played on Graf's favourite surface during this period, Seles won 3 games.
Yeah, the 93 Australian Open final makes things look a little nicer for Seles, but if that one match is your basis for believing that *checks to make sure he read it right* Seles is going to win 20-22 slams, and Graf 13-14 then reason is obviously not something you prescribe to.
Monica beat Steffi in 3 sets at her worst major, the one she got knocked out of at the quarter final stage the last time she played, and that she'd only win once more in her absence. Yes, that definitely suggests this was going to be as one sided a rivalry going forward as you Seles Mythmakers suggest. Let's hop back on the fact train...
Fact. As said, Graf's problems during this period were not with Seles, they were off court. On court during this period her slam losses came to, in order - Novotna, Arantxa, Martina, Seles, Arantxa, and Seles. You can literally claim she was getting owned by Arantxa as easily as you can Seles, though that claim too goes out the window if you look at the actual head to head.
Fact. Seles did come back and did play a long and fine career in which she competed with the best players in the world and often beat them. You can claim if she'd never been stabbed she would have been infinitely better, but as her physical wound had no lasting impact on her, if you think the psychological toil was the difference between the one major she won, and the dozen you think she would have I think you're grasping pretty desperately at straws.
What does seem far more reasonable is she was another one of the plethora of players (especially on the womens side) over the years who come hot out of the gates and then simply fade away as adulthood well and truly sets in.
Fact. Her game was built around power and aggression, speed and fitness, and as you get older that stuff fades.
The give-no-f*cks mental toughness she was known for was certainly far more rarely observed after her return. How much of that had to do with the fact that she spent the rest of her career living in fear of what was done to her, and how much of it was due to the fact that much like, say, a Nadal in 2015-16 when the aforementioned power and speed and fitness you've built your game around fades, and younger, stronger, faster players rise up, your confidence just naturally erodes you would have to guess at, but all it would be is a guess backed up by next to nothing.
D
Deleted member 744633
Guest
Agree with you about that lavadekkabaal Anointedone who appears to be spewing c*rap but machan, did you just call Federer fans decent, knowledgeable and classy? Otha, LOL X 10,000 I wonder if you read all the posts in this forum because if you did, you wouldn't write like that about Federer fans. Omala!
D
Deleted member 744633
Guest
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Federer is GOAT in the men's game, Seles 10th in the women's game.
Not much similarity.
Not much similarity.
USO
Banned
She already has the 6th most slams in the Open Era despite her career being destroyed in her prime. She’s tied for the 8th position in the all-time slams list. One can only imagine her positions on those lists had she been allowed to continue her normal career.
D
Deleted member 744633
Guest
Machan ... I disagree. I see this same sentiment in Federer fans and I'm no psychologist, so I simply don't understand it. Djokovic dominates Federer in reality yet in a hypothetical world where Federer & Djokovic are the same age or at least both of them are in their primes, they claim Federer would dominate Djokovic
Likewise you say Graf would have found a way to win but the fact is when Graf's chief rival has won 7 of the last 9 slams, that kind of domination suggests Graf would've had a mountain to climb. IMO, if the stabbing had not happened, Seles would have dominated the game to such an extent we'd all be picking our jaws up from the floor.
D
Deleted member 744633
Guest
I don't know how Federer is GOAT but I'd rather not digress from the subject of this thread. Seles may be 10th but let this sink in ... she had climbed to that spot by the time she was 19! We can only imagine how far up she'd have climbed in another mere 2 or 3 years!
More likely trajectory for Seles was that she figures out Graf on grass and wins Wimbledon then Graf recapturing her dominance overall.
Proof of that is 95' wimbledon final where moonballer clay specialist Vicario had 5-5 vs Graf in 3rd set. Graf bagelled her few weeks prior in FO final.
Proof of that is 95' wimbledon final where moonballer clay specialist Vicario had 5-5 vs Graf in 3rd set. Graf bagelled her few weeks prior in FO final.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
As you stated, she was in her prime. It's highly unlikely she would have kept up her winning rate for several more years - tell me another man or woman who kept winning at such a rate for many years after such a 3-year dominant spell. Plus, Graf, having slumped in the early 90s, was getting closer to figuring her out.
I think that, in a world where Seles wasn't stabbed, she and Graf would have ended up similar to Evert and Navratilova, with 18 slams apiece. It's fantasy to think that one of them would've completely overshadowed the other.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Maureen Connolly had done even more by the age of 19.
As you often say about claims made for Federer by his fans, we can't look at imaginary scenarios and rank people in history based on those.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
Federer is more like Graf, except Nadal / Djokovic never got stabbed.
D
Deleted member 744633
Guest
Maureen Connolly had done even more by the age of 19.
As you often say about claims made for Federer by his fans, we can't look at imaginary scenarios and rank people in history based on those.
I didn't know that about Maureen Connolly
That's incredible.As for the 2nd point, yes agreed. As @Sport likes to remind us frequently, some claims are unverifiable.
Similar threads
