Vid of some casual points

FiReFTW

Legend
Wanted to play a set or two with a female friend today (I adjust my game and serve only 2nd serves against her) since im getting back into tennis for real (I mean I did play but I didn't serve because I had back issues) so I already served on saturday when I played some doubles, but since I got sick today and felt pretty terrible we decided to just do some casual points, sometimes even continue after the ball bounced twice, so more casual, my footwork is pretty dead as you can see, so playing serious 2 sets would be too draining for me at this point.

Anyway I was testing camera angles because im gonna videotape a match or so next week from my tennis league for fun and maybe post it here to see what you guys say about ratings, so I was videotaping so decided to throw in a few points and post for fun, here it is:


Im obviously the guy haha
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Lol people always say that whenever I post videos about every court, do you people in the US really have such bad courts?
You have to be in an affluent area to have nice hard courts. And I don't even know what it takes to have a clay court next to nature like that.

Courts I play at are full of cracks, broken nets, and some trash and alot of leaves.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Hey that picture captured by Dragy shows your back swing look pretty unnatural! Should the racket face be facing the ground more or less, and slide thru air with edge first?
 

AlexSV

Rookie
You have to be in an affluent area to have nice hard courts. And I don't even know what it takes to have a clay court next to nature like that.

Courts I play at are full of cracks, broken nets, and some trash and alot of leaves.
Don't forget sloping so bad it's become visible that the court is lop-sided.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Your FH really looks good with how confidently you swing at the ball and how it kicks. Though this chop-the-dog drives me crazy :laughing:
lol chop the dog grip. Are you hitting continental grip FIRE?
Hey that picture captured by Dragy shows your back swing look pretty unnatural! Should the racket face be facing the ground more or less, and slide thru air with edge first?
I guess it has to do with the position of my wrist/forearm

I seem to maintain an extended wrist for quite a long time during the takeback



Nadal who uses the same grip also sometimes has an extended wrist very high on the takeback but when he drops it down it becomes more neutral so the angle of the strings are less rotated back

See how extended his wrist is here and strings facing back



But here when lower his wrist is neutral:



I wonder if it makes timing easier
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
I guess it has to do with the position of my wrist/forearm

I seem to maintain an extended wrist for quite a long time during the takeback



Nadal who uses the same grip also sometimes has an extended wrist very high on the takeback but when he drops it down it becomes more neutral so the angle of the strings are less rotated back

See how extended his wrist is here and strings facing back



But here when lower his wrist is neutral:



I wonder if it makes timing easier
Here’re just some thoughts, not after “correcting” you or something...
- Your grip is stronger than Rafa’s. No matter how it looks when you statically observe bevels and knuckles, it puts your RF against your arm as in full western grip.
- (I only observe Rafa’s current swing, not 2015 or any other year alterations) Rafa seems to keep his wrist very loose, and it gets extended while he takes racquet back holding it with off-arm, and it gets to neutral if not some flexion since he releases the off-arm.
- With western grip there’s no practical reason to keep wrist flexed. With eastern grip it might help with closing RF, while with 90 deg rotated W-orientation of RF challenge is opposite - how to open it enough :-D
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Here’re just some thoughts, not after “correcting” you or something...
- Your grip is stronger than Rafa’s. No matter how it looks when you statically observe bevels and knuckles, it puts your RF against your arm as in full western grip.
Maybe, but how, my index knuckle is dead on the semi western beavel? I mean the beavel that comes after eastern grip, the smaller one, ive checked countless times even after hitting and tried moving it further or weaker, or fully eastern or fully western and everything else feels very weird in my hand and unnatural.
Can't be just that the grip is further even if we assume it is, the difference in angle from pat the dog to my chop the dog is WAAAAY too bigger to be a grip difference, must be some other things like wrist position, maybe arm position, takeback, something..
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Believe it or not he hits the ball with the other side of the racquet...

J
I believe that. And it makes his grip and swing pretty unusual and hard to believe.


I guess it has to do with the position of my wrist/forearm

I seem to maintain an extended wrist for quite a long time during the takeback



Nadal who uses the same grip also sometimes has an extended wrist very high on the takeback but when he drops it down it becomes more neutral so the angle of the strings are less rotated back

See how extended his wrist is here and strings facing back



But here when lower his wrist is neutral:



I wonder if it makes timing easier
Well, Nadal makes things look intuitive and easy. Probably no less important is he makes it easy for himself also and that's maybe why he's sooo good.

You would think rec players are lower performers and things would be even simpler than pros. But in your case, it's the other way. LOL
 

FiReFTW

Legend
@Dragy im almost convinced the racquet is tilted that way because of my wrist position, look at every forehand in my vid, when im in that position my wrist is extended which is very uncommon.

Here Khachanov who has a western grip has this position of the racquet angle, yet his wrist is completely flexed the other way, if it was extended like mine his strings would face up.



Here Sock who has a western grip has a neutral wrist position and his strings face even into the air while mine are not as extreme but similar to Khachanov and my wrist is flexed.



Heres a vid of what I mean:


I just got into a habit of doing this back where and thats why the strings face that way, im positive my grip is semi western, too bad you don't live near so we could test all in real life :D

But check the vid and see how my angles face when my wrist is neutral like most players have in that position, its typical pat the dog:


If you carefully check my forehand in the vid in the OP you will see this exact wrist flexion in that position where my strings face more back.

Look how flexed its here, then 2 frames after it goes to neutral, and this is a continious occurance in every forehand:



Almost like im cocking the wrist back, then as I swing I relax my grip.
 
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FiReFTW

Legend
I never believe anyone will use this kind of western grip. OMG. Why?
On second thought, he won't have to change grip for his BH. which is nice.
I will because its not a western grip, but keep believing Dragy, I think I know best what grip I use since im hitting the shots lol.
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
I will because its not a western grip, but keep believing Dragy, I think I know best what grip I use since im hitting the shots lol.
i didn't really mean "western", i want to say "extreme". but yeah, you are the first person i've seen hitting that way.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
i didn't really mean "western", i want to say "extreme". but yeah, you are the first person i've seen hitting that way.
My forehand is next level stuff, forget pat the dog, cut the dog is the next big thing, im the new evolution. lol jk

Backhand grip is less extreme tho, here as comparison BH to FH



But I dont really have issues switching grips so its no problem
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
My forehand is next level stuff, forget pat the dog, cut the dog is the next big thing, im the new evolution. lol jk

Backhand grip is less extreme tho, here as comparison BH to FH



But I dont really have issues switching grips so its no problem
Which one is which?

J
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Btw in this video from summer last year I don't notice this angle of the racquet or anything, very odd, so it must be something this year, but I haven't really done any forehand adjustments at all technically, only drilling etc

 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
@Dragy im almost convinced the racquet is tilted that way because of my wrist position, look at every forehand in my vid, when im in that position my wrist is extended which is very uncommon.

Here Khachanov who has a western grip has this position of the racquet angle, yet his wrist is completely flexed the other way, if it was extended like mine his strings would face up.



Here Sock who has a western grip has a neutral wrist position and his strings face even into the air while mine are not as extreme but similar to Khachanov and my wrist is flexed.



Heres a vid of what I mean:


I just got into a habit of doing this back where and thats why the strings face that way, im positive my grip is semi western, too bad you don't live near so we could test all in real life :D

But check the vid and see how my angles face when my wrist is neutral like most players have in that position, its typical pat the dog:


If you carefully check my forehand in the vid in the OP you will see this exact wrist flexion in that position where my strings face more back.

Look how flexed its here, then 2 frames after it goes to neutral, and this is a continious occurance in every forehand:



Almost like im cocking the wrist back, then as I swing I relax my grip.
If I was in India, I'd dance it for you.
But where I am, I just made a living room video.
Just as if I was in Australia.
Actually, what makes difference with same bevel knuckle position, is where your heel pad is/what angle your hand lies on the handle with. And how big is your palm/long your fingers are against the grip size, which differs how rotated you need the racquet rotated to reach target bevel.
So smaller grip-size and more "hammer" your hand grip, the more open the RF. The bigger the grip and spread, angled the fingers - the closer the grip.
PS: Khachanov uses Hawaiian grip, which is conti flipped around. Sock on that photos also looks as very extreme western. In some other videos he seems more of true western.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
If I was in India, I'd dance it for you.
But where I am, I just made a living room video.
Just as if I was in Australia.
Actually, what makes difference with same bevel knuckle position, is where your heel pad is/what angle your hand lies on the handle with. And how big is your palm/long your fingers are against the grip size, which differs how rotated you need the racquet rotated to reach target bevel.
So smaller grip-size and more "hammer" your hand grip, the more open the RF. The bigger the grip and spread, angled the fingers - the closer the grip.
PS: Khachanov uses Hawaiian grip, which is conti flipped around. Sock on that photos also looks as very extreme western. In some other videos he seems more of true western.
That video is unavailable
 

Kevo

Legend
That is interesting that you hit that forehand with the opposite side from most people. I can see how that might be helpful if you are hitting everything high above the shoulder. I wonder what would happen if you were hitting on hard court against a good slice or a flatter hitting. I'm guessing it would break down a bit or you'd naturally make some kind of adjustment to that technique.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
That is interesting that you hit that forehand with the opposite side from most people. I can see how that might be helpful if you are hitting everything high above the shoulder. I wonder what would happen if you were hitting on hard court against a good slice or a flatter hitting. I'm guessing it would break down a bit or you'd naturally make some kind of adjustment to that technique.
Maybe I make some adjustments to that technique, or maybe not, but the interesting thing is that I actually prefer lower faster balls, and struggle most against high contact balls, not struggle in the sense that I misshit everything, but that I can't really effectively attack those balls, while I can quite crush low balls and love them, low to mid height ones, thats why I take balls on the rise alot too and stand closer to the baseline usually.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
I was thinking his worst surface would be grass.
My favorite surface is actually fast hardcourt, 2nd is carpet, 3rd slower harcourts, 4th clay.

Never played on grass yet.

But considering the shots that I prefer to hit against its the opposite of what @Kevo assumes
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
That is interesting that you hit that forehand with the opposite side from most people. I can see how that might be helpful if you are hitting everything high above the shoulder. I wonder what would happen if you were hitting on hard court against a good slice or a flatter hitting. I'm guessing it would break down a bit or you'd naturally make some kind of adjustment to that technique.
Nope. Just hold a continental grip and bump the ball back high. His stroke will only work against a straight ball.

J
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Btw in this video from summer last year I don't notice this angle of the racquet or anything, very odd, so it must be something this year, but I haven't really done any forehand adjustments at all technically, only drilling etc

Hey this hitting looks better. Less crazy grip-wise. :) Why don't you develop this further? Forget the other one where you use one racket side for both fh and bh.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Hey this hitting looks better. Less crazy grip-wise. :) Why don't you develop this further? Forget the other one where you use one racket side for both fh and bh.
What do you mean one side? Im not using the same side on fh and bh, I rotate it around :laughing:
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
I have no idea whats going on haha. How can you use very similar grips to play both FH and BH! You are the boss....
It's not that difficult to understand.

On the FH, FireFTW just took the skipping stones on water surface concept a bit too far. That's all.

Do that fun action and you'll figure out that fh.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
What do you mean one side? Im not using the same side on fh and bh, I rotate it around :laughing:
that's because you still play slow matches where you still have time to two hands on the racket.

Sometimes I have to rush around the court that the racket stays on one hand entire point.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
It's not that difficult to understand.

On the FH, FireFTW just took the skipping stones on water surface concept a bit too far. That's all.

Do that fun action and you'll figure out that fh.
Yeah yeah, thats the rotation move I was talking about with the wrist/forearm when your back, but I couldn't find a way to describe it, but thats exactly the feeling :laughing:
 

FiReFTW

Legend
that's because you still play slow matches where you still have time to two hands on the racket.

Sometimes I have to rush around the court that the racket stays on one hand entire point.
You can grab the racquet with off hand and rotate it in 0.25 seconds! slowpoke!
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
You can grab the racquet with off hand and rotate it in 0.25 seconds! slowpoke!
haha ok.

I'm tempted to go look on youtube for a point where Federer hits both fh and bh while carrying the racket with only one hand. That'd be something.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
It's not that difficult to understand.

On the FH, FireFTW just took the skipping stones on water surface concept a bit too far. That's all.

Do that fun action and you'll figure out that fh.

Heres a vid with this throwing or skipping stone movement concept :p
 

Kevo

Legend
Maybe I make some adjustments to that technique, or maybe not, but the interesting thing is that I actually prefer lower faster balls, and struggle most against high contact balls, not struggle in the sense that I misshit everything, but that I can't really effectively attack those balls, while I can quite crush low balls and love them, low to mid height ones, thats why I take balls on the rise alot too and stand closer to the baseline usually.
I'd like to see some video of you hitting low balls just to see the differences between what you're doing in the video, which seems to be mostly medium and high bouncing balls, and what you might be doing different with the low ones.
 

Kevo

Legend
I was thinking his worst surface would be grass.
Grass to me is more like a concept. I've never played on grass or even seen a grass court other than tv. I know there is a guy within an hour or so from where I live that has/had 4 grass courts he built himself setup for people to play on. It was only open for 2 or 3 months of the year and was pretty expensive from what I remember. The one guy I know that tried it out said it was neat, but too expensive and since you can only play on it a little bit you don't really get used to it. It's just hard to keep the court in playable shape so it's more of a novelty thing.
 
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