video analysis - match vs a pusher

T

tonygao

Rookie
Hi Guys,

I have been learning tennis seriously since 15 months ago and now I think i am about 3.0(my net play not included).

yesterday I played a practice match with a friend, who has been played for many years. the below clip is one of my service game and i think it can totally represents the situation of my current game against pushers.

I also did some statistics myself on the whole set, I made twice UE than him. so classical case when getting beaten by a pusher.

I think it's clear for me to improve my game, the most effective way is to improve my ability to deal with the below two types of balls:

-oppotunity balls, meaning shorts ball, easy sitter, slow and no spin
-volley and overhead

you can see from this clip that how many of these two were wasted by me. If I could just convert half of them, I will be in the total control of the game.

please check out the clip and let me know your comments if my thoughts above are correct.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o190PbgU8jM
 
You're feet aren't moving nearly enough if you wanna take advantage of the pusher. I would look at FYB's how to beat a pusher videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILwKH83Pz5c

This will give you some of the basic footwork ideas, but the real trouble is implementing these ideas into actual matches. I hope this helps slightly, I'm too tired to find any other points... :-(
 
thanks Jonny, I have watched that vid long time ago. I think my lateral movement is ok, the problem is that I didn't move into the court enough when necessary. I shouldn't just moved in to hit a swing volley or even overhead when it's possible.
 
is it because my level is not enough? are how many posts can I edit my post and post attachment? btw, on the #3, my last sentence should be:
" I should've just moved in to hit a swing volley or even overhead when it's possible."
 
Guy in the far court doesn't really strike me as a pusher. He's hitting through his forehand. Sure he isn't hurting you with it, but he's still hitting it back with ample pace for you to work with. He's slicing his backhand short alot, come to net and end it or keep it to his forehand if you're going to make UE off it.
 
Your analysis of your game is correct. 1 - footwork, especially moving forward 2 - practice. You can even practice by yourself by just tossing the ball up around midcourt and practicing moving forward and hitting approach shots, hitting the ball very high and hitting overheads, ,against the backboard, practicing volleys and overheads (for overheads, hit the ball into the ground so it hits the backboard on the way up.
You have good strokes for your level of play, so you should be able to improve to higher levels.
 
What level is the guy you are playing against? I say he is a semi pusher as he does hit with some pace on the forehand and doesn't moonball you to death. That to me is a classic pusher who gives you no pace at all to work with.

Pushers are fun to play against since they are consistent and give you a chance to work on your footwork, patience, and ability to construct a point. What I don't like watching are two pushers playing each other, oh, what a long and boring match that is.

I can see he draws you to the net as he sees your lack of footwork, speed, and prepration as the main weakness.
 
tonygao said:
Hi Guys,

I have been learning tennis seriously since 15 months ago and now I think i am about 3.0(my net play not included).

yesterday I played a practice match with a friend, who has been played for many years. the below clip is one of my service game and i think it can totally represents the situation of my current game against pushers.

I also did some statistics myself on the whole set, I made twice UE than him. so classical case when getting beaten by a pusher.

I think it's clear for me to improve my game, the most effective way is to improve my ability to deal with the below two types of balls:

-oppotunity balls, meaning shorts ball, easy sitter, slow and no spin
-volley and overhead

you can see from this clip that how many of these two were wasted by me. If I could just convert half of them, I will be in the total control of the game.

please check out the clip and let me know your comments if my thoughts above are correct.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o190PbgU8jM
Click to expand...

Neither one of you look like pushers. It appears your tennis game is coming along fine, IMO. Your serve seems solid for a 3.0, as well.

You opponent's defense isn't great and he also makes too many UE's to be considered a pusher.
 
Last edited:
If that guy's forehand was like his backhand then he'd be a pusher. But his forehand is fairly solid, so I wouldn't classify him as a pusher. I'd just classify him as more consistent than you but with a weak backhand. From what I saw, you got into too many forehand rallies with a guy whose forehand is more consistent than your forehand.

The consistently winning play against this guy is to hit him a deep ball to the backhand side and then move up to volley at the service line (i.e., further back from the net than you'd normally volley). You don't have to hit your approach shot with much pace, just hit him a safe deep shot to the backhand side and get up to the service line. He can't hurt you with passing shots or hard low balls on the backhand side and the only way he's going to get it by you is a lob (which is why you stand a few feet further back than normal). If he throws up a lob, hit an overhead. If he throws up an easy sitter, close in on it and end the point. If you aren't comfortable at the net, that's a sign that you need to work on that aspect of your game and there's no time like the present.

BTW, your stokes look pretty good.
 
1st point: Nice shoulder turn in preparation in all three forehands. Difference I see in 3rd forehand that you hit into the net? Very little kneebend, a bit lazy set-up compared to the 1st 2. Biggest difference is look at the shoulder turn on your follow-thru. 1st two forehands good shoulder turn on prep and good turn on follow-thru. 3rd forehand you turned shoulder in prep but no full shoulder rotation on follow thru so ball hit short into the net.

2nd point: Opponent strokes a nice deep ball on his return. Again...no knee bend in setup prep by you to get under the ball...hit into the net. I agree you have a pretty smooth service motion...just need to put more energy into it!...oh...and did I mention knee-bend? :)

3rd point: Decent approach shot by you, decent x-court passing attempt by opponent...again you just seem a little lethargic...another half-step and you would've likely hit a solid volley.

7th point: You had a nice short ball that sat up nice and high and you chose a half-hearted drop shot instead of driving an approach shot. If you are going to drop shot then get sideways and move through the ball, racquet high to low, and put some nice slice back spin on it, don't just bunt it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw_iwY6o_d4

9th point: You got a short ball early but didn't approach but I think that was fine...he was mid-court in good position so he likely would've had time to set up for a good passing attempt. You were both very patient...good safe rally balls to middle of the court...till you got another semi-short ball. You tried for the angle but I just think you might've peeked a little early and looked up before finishing your stroke...prep actually looked okay...but like point #1 look at the lack of shoulder rotation in your follow-thru on this stroke compared to most of the other forehands in this point.

11th point: Okay this one was brutal...2 short ball opportunities and you, not your opponent decided to just push the ball back. I don't know what you were thinking on that last stroke! :) Hit the ball!...swing loose and free and whip that racquet low to high up and over your left shoulder with a good followthrough...you had it...you were all set up and you pushed it wide. You just need to build some confidence in that stroke...its a shot you can practice by yourself with your own dropped ball...a short spinny angled ball. Plant your back foot and accelerate the racquet up and across.

Seriously, you have a nice smooth athletic way about you and most of your strokes so use that to your advantage but just add a bit of energy and confidence to your strokes at key times and I think your results will improve rapidly. Looks like you were both having fun so keep enjoying the game.

Oh, Final point (12th I think): Nice rally, you went for a fuller swing on the short ball...good, you just looped it up a bit but still got the reply you wanted...then a disappointing half-hearted volley into the net. Your groundstroke prep is usually very good, but you didn't turn your shoulder to prep for that volley stroke at all. Energy! Get prepped and attack that ball before it has a chance to drop down to net level...move forward into it..stepping forward with your left leg. You had time to make sure that ball never had a chance to drop low enough to have any chance of being hit low into the net. Compare your static feet (and shoulders) to the pros in the clip below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj3BQMerIx0

Good luck...that was quite the marathon game!...enjoyed watching it. Again, I think you have a good foundation to improve rapidly...but then again...I'm just some guy on the internet! :)
 
I suggest that to be more consistent, try hitting the underneath of the ball more to gain more topspin.
 
^^^

in reality, you cannot hit underneath the ball to produce topspin.

if you watch slo-mo of the pros, the faces are tilted towards the ground at impact.... the friction between the string and the ball is what drags the ball up over the net.

so you actually hit slightly on top of the ball for topspin.

although GETTING underneath the ball is a sensation you may have, between getting your center of gravity lower, and also with the racket drop below the ball.
 
dozu said:
^^^

in reality, you cannot hit underneath the ball to produce topspin.

if you watch slo-mo of the pros, the faces are tilted towards the ground at impact.... the friction between the string and the ball is what drags the ball up over the net.

so you actually hit slightly on top of the ball for topspin.

although GETTING underneath the ball is a sensation you may have, between getting your center of gravity lower, and also with the racket drop below the ball.
Click to expand...

My guess is that he means that in order to hit topspin you must get underneath the ball with your racket. It doesn't mean that you have to brush the bottom of the ball. Topspin comes naturally when you move your racket from below the height of the ball over the height of the ball, thus the brushing motion. My physics laws its impossible to hit "on top of the ball" getting topspin and making the ball land in. You can hit on top of the ball if you first come from below the height of the ball. It's just a matter of how you apprehend things.
 
yes, your baseline rally game is pretty solid for your level.
yes, working on how to attack mid court balls will really help you,

but don't think that just because they are opportunities that they are
Real Easy. They are opportunities because of the advantage you have in court geometry, but they are very tough to execute due to the shortness of the court
in that area, along with getting it over the net and back down in the court effectively.
 
tonygao said:
Hi Guys,

I have been learning tennis seriously since 15 months ago and now I think i am about 3.0(my net play not included).

yesterday I played a practice match with a friend, who has been played for many years. the below clip is one of my service game and i think it can totally represents the situation of my current game against pushers.

I also did some statistics myself on the whole set, I made twice UE than him. so classical case when getting beaten by a pusher.

I think it's clear for me to improve my game, the most effective way is to improve my ability to deal with the below two types of balls:

-oppotunity balls, meaning shorts ball, easy sitter, slow and no spin
-volley and overhead

you can see from this clip that how many of these two were wasted by me. If I could just convert half of them, I will be in the total control of the game.

please check out the clip and let me know your comments if my thoughts above are correct.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o190PbgU8jM
Click to expand...

You aren't setting up for your shots with the effort it takes to be able to hit with force and consistency. It's easy to get lazy against a pusher. You should also put more arch on your groundies for a greater margin for error. In addition, you seem to be a bit aimless - no working strategy. For basics, you should hit everything cross court to increase your margin for error, improve your court positioning, and to get him moving so you can draw a weak shot to attack. Finally, when you do get the short ball, either hit an approach down the line, or, if it sits up, go for a winner cross court, and be more aggressive on your volleys. HIT THE DANG BALL!
 
athiker said:
Good luck...that was quite the marathon game!...enjoyed watching it. Again, I think you have a good foundation to improve rapidly...but then again...I'm just some guy on the internet! :)
Click to expand...

:shock:man, i would never expect such detailed analysis on my vid anybody. really appreciate it, Athiker.
 
Yeah, I don't see any pushers here. A pretty typical 3.0 level play. The other guy has a weak backhand, but that does not make him a pusher. You should just keep pounding it to his backhand.
 
Here are my suggestions to get less errors per match without much change to what you are doing:

1) you need to jump step to get balanced when the opponent hits. On several occasions, especially at the net, you are running through the shot. The jump step helps you get settled to hit from a non-moving position. Think of it as moving toward the ball , stopping, and then swinging from the stable position. Timing a shot on the run is much harder (defensive).

2). related to 1, you hit running backwards when defensive, especially on the backhand side. You should stop, and then swing with a forward motion, even if this means hitting a ball off your shoes.

3). bend the knees - too many shots where you are leaning over to hit a low ball into the net. Your desired location for hitting is a ball around waist-height, so bend to move your waist to the height of the ball to improve accuracy, rather than changing your entire stroke
 
You are uncomfortable dealing with any level of change of pace. What would help is practicing applying topspin to slow balls. You also tend to slow your swing rate to try and get some consistency. Learn to replace this with applying top spin instead of decelerating It's going to be hard. I suggest finding your top spin from the body. You will have difficulty because this feels completely different from just redirecting the ball.
 
dozu said:
^^^

in reality, you cannot hit underneath the ball to produce topspin.

if you watch slo-mo of the pros, the faces are tilted towards the ground at impact.... the friction between the string and the ball is what drags the ball up over the net.

so you actually hit slightly on top of the ball for topspin.

although GETTING underneath the ball is a sensation you may have, between getting your center of gravity lower, and also with the racket drop below the ball.
Click to expand...

I don't get it. So is the low-to-high motion just a fallacy? To get the ball to go high, you have to hit the top of it? I don't understand because that's how I've always been taught how to do it by all my coaches and all the posts I've read on the forum when the topic goes to topspin.
 
Roy125 said:
I don't get it. So is the low-to-high motion just a fallacy? To get the ball to go high, you have to hit the top of it? I don't understand because that's how I've always been taught how to do it by all my coaches and all the posts I've read on the forum when the topic goes to topspin.
Click to expand...

It's not "on top" which can be misunderstood but on the side. The low to high is not a fallacy. Though the balls digs through the racquet more center, the direction of the racquets force goes to ball. You want your movement to be under the ball before contact. I would ignore everything Dozu said.

The instruction of getting under the ball is for intents and purpose is a good one. Especially for slower balls, low level players don't apply enough brushing to create topspin and generate pace.
 
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