Video Of Some Point Play From Today

#6
We play that game a lot indoors because it is better for getting more games in while paying for court time.
Don't know about that. Regardless, it should be the same amount of points being played either way. The difference is there's a more fair distribution of who's serving. But I like the fact that it's 4 points before switching rather than the 2 of tiebreaks. Feels more like a game. I like it.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
#7
Don't know about that. Regardless, it should be the same amount of points being played either way. The difference is there's a more fair distribution of who's serving. But I like the fact that it's 4 points before switching rather than the 2 of tiebreaks. Feels more like a game. I like it.
There is no duece or add points so u can usually play a 21 much quicker than a set.
 
#11
Thanks for the support but believe me he is much better than I am, he is 4.5 level I am 4.0.
Yes, even though you play him tough here, he does have some clear advantages. At 1:10, where you hit that big angle that he got to, but then missed his rtn.....Imo, there were 2 good lessons there. 1st I'd say that you were hitting from the rally area and that angle was too much for your positioning. Great that you made it, but to do so, you had to really hit the heavy dipping hook that will sit up to be run down. Not only that, but when they run it down it will still be a short ball for them, hence why he tried to attack you with a dropper off of it. The 2nd point that saved you was how the heavy dipper does make it tough to handle neatly. In your case he didn't and you won the point. Imo you should have even anticipated and been ready for a possible drop shot with a good chance to cover his return had he made it. It is tougher for him to hit a good dropper from shoulder height than from down lower because it is hard for him to kill the bounce.

At 1:45 you actually earned a nice mid ct attack attempt to attack from just inside the BL, but your rally instinct kicked in and you hit up like it was a rally ball....missing long in the process. Imo, that is the shot you are looking to get better at with your execution and we have seen you do it in video already....so we know you can. You sort of gave up the answer when you said he made you go for too much. That is a big key Imo in this game. Don't let players make go for too much. For the most part, do what you know you can do and do it well, then let the score sort itself out with you making shots way more than missing. Let that determine the winner, not you going for too much. I do realize this is practice though, where you are pushing your skills and limits, so you might treat this a bit different than a league or any full on match.

Even though these are examples of your execution being a bit backwards, very Good hitting and keep up the great work!
 
#12
Yes, even though you play him tough here, he does have some clear advantages. At 1:10, where you hit that big angle that he got to, but then missed his rtn.....Imo, there were 2 good lessons there. 1st I'd say that you were hitting from the rally area and that angle was too much for your positioning. Great that you made it, but to do so, you had to really hit the heavy dipping hook that will sit up to be run down. Not only that, but when they run it down it will still be a short ball for them, hence why he tried to attack you with a dropper off of it. The 2nd point that saved you was how the heavy dipper does make it tough to handle neatly. In your case he didn't and you won the point. Imo you should have even anticipated and been ready for a possible drop shot with a good chance to cover his return had he made it. It is tougher for him to hit a good dropper from shoulder height than from down lower because it is hard for him to kill the bounce.

At 1:45 you actually earned a nice mid ct attack attempt to attack from just inside the BL, but your rally instinct kicked in and you hit up like it was a rally ball....missing long in the process. Imo, that is the shot you are looking to get better at with your execution and we have seen you do it in video already....so we know you can. You sort of gave up the answer when you said he made you go for too much. That is a big key Imo in this game. Don't let players make go for too much. For the most part, do what you know you can do and do it well, then let the score sort itself out with you making shots way more than missing. Let that determine the winner, not you going for too much. I do realize this is practice though, where you are pushing your skills and limits, so you might treat this a bit different than a league or any full on match.

Even though these are examples of your execution being a bit backwards, very Good hitting and keep up the great work!
As usual you are spot on. As soon as I watched that point at 1:45 I thought to myself why did I not drive through the ball more and flatten it out that shot would have been inside the baseline instead of long. Your probably right my safe play attitude kicked in.

That sharp angle short ball that I hit does work pretty well against baseline players that play deep, but is extra risky against a guy like I'm playing because he plays close to the baseline and is looking to come in. Plus I should have moved in to cover his drop attempt.

Your right i shouldn't let my better opponent pressure me into going for to much, but this is easier said than done. When I play the better guys I do have a tendency to try to go for to much because it seems like they have no weakness. But then it just makes it worse because now I am making more errors than usual and add that to their better ability and I will make it easier for them.

Thanks for the good advise, your observations are very accurate.
 
#13
Hey tlm...nice game you have brother! Notice you have pretty good wheels too!! I'm but a novice so can't offer any helpful input, just wanted to give you props for posting the vid and some kudos for your game. Cheers!!
 
#14
Hey tlm...nice game you have brother! Notice you have pretty good wheels too!! I'm but a novice so can't offer any helpful input, just wanted to give you props for posting the vid and some kudos for your game. Cheers!!
Thanks but I'm pretty close to a novice myself. I just love playing this great game, it is such a challenge to play and especially improve.
 
#15
Your right i shouldn't let my better opponent pressure me into going for to much, but this is easier said than done. When I play the better guys I do have a tendency to try to go for to much because it seems like they have no weakness. But then it just makes it worse because now I am making more errors than usual and add that to their better ability and I will make it easier for them.

Thanks for the good advise, your observations are very accurate.
Hey, don't think we don't all make that mistake at times by trying to play over our heads because another player can make us think we must. We have all done it and will do it again. Imo, the key here is to hold it to a minimum by knowing how we want to play and trying to stick with it, along with expecting that pressure to pop up and be ready to get that feeling under control. Like you did here, recognizing when we start down that path is the first step to also putting a stop to it.

One other point you bring up is how we can learn bad lessons from weaker players. You say you can get away with that angle from that position on some players ( weaker I expect). My main point is that hitting that angle from that area is not a solid tactic Imo. This player just went a long way to provide evidence of that. I like that tactic if you are a couple more steps up, which does a couple of important things. From closer in, you give them less time to react and you can also cover the dropper better if they go that route on you, as well as you have a better look at making this shot more aggressively. When both feet are behind the BL, I feel strongly you should be in aggressive rally mode and that shot isn't included from my POV, lol.

Again, good hitting and video. You are fortunate to have good players like him to mix it up with!
Merry Christmas..
 
#16
Hey tlm...nice game you have brother! Notice you have pretty good wheels too!! I'm but a novice so can't offer any helpful input, just wanted to give you props for posting the vid and some kudos for your game. Cheers!!
He definitely has the fitness advantage but the other guy has better understanding of where to hit the ball and where to position himself.
 
#17
Hey, don't think we don't all make that mistake at times by trying to play over our heads because another player can make us think we must. We have all done it and will do it again. Imo, the key here is to hold it to a minimum by knowing how we want to play and trying to stick with it, along with expecting that pressure to pop up and be ready to get that feeling under control. Like you did here, recognizing when we start down that path is the first step to also putting a stop to it.

One other point you bring up is how we can learn bad lessons from weaker players. You say you can get away with that angle from that position on some players ( weaker I expect). My main point is that hitting that angle from that area is not a solid tactic Imo. This player just went a long way to provide evidence of that. I like that tactic if you are a couple more steps up, which does a couple of important things. From closer in, you give them less time to react and you can also cover the dropper better if they go that route on you, as well as you have a better look at making this shot more aggressively. When both feet are behind the BL, I feel strongly you should be in aggressive rally mode and that shot isn't included from my POV, lol.

Again, good hitting and video. You are fortunate to have good players like him to mix it up with!
Merry Christmas..
Yes using good strategy is not a strong point for me.

Ya I am lucky that some of the better players like my buddy in the video will hit with me. As much as it can be frustrating it is great practice and a real challenge to at least play well enough to make it competitive.

Merry Christmas to you
 
#18
Yes using good strategy is not a strong point for me.

Ya I am lucky that some of the better players like my buddy in the video will hit with me. As much as it can be frustrating it is great practice and a real challenge to at least play well enough to make it competitive.

Merry Christmas to you
You might be able to improve your game with improved defensive skills along with developing patience.

I used to play an aggressive game for a while and then, at one point, he started being able to neutralize the point after I hit a penetrating shot. Instead of missing or hitting a sitter off a good serve, he'd slice it back deep so that I couldn't really do that much with the ball. It turns out that he was watching pro matches and learning what they do and how they play - this is when defensive and baseline play became more prominent over the serve and volley style that we saw in the 1990s.

Today you see guys like Djokovic and Murray - they may have an advantage in the point and their opponent hits a high neutralizing ball, and they just go back to reconstructing the point. It doesn't bother them that they had an advantage and couldn't press it - they just go back into their patient point construction mode. The other guy doesn't look like he's putting a lot of physical effort into hitting the ball as well. He uses placement and positioning quite well. I think that you'd do better in a long, running point where he couldn't keep putting you out of position. He uses leverage quite well - the thing is can you repeatedly neutralize his leverage? Can you get him into a long crosscourt rally where he has to expend a lot of energy?

I've also learned to pick things up watching ATP matches and in viewing the Tips and Instruction forum here. It's little-by-little and I have to try things out but every little thing helps.
 
#20
You might be able to improve your game with improved defensive skills along with developing patience.

I used to play an aggressive game for a while and then, at one point, he started being able to neutralize the point after I hit a penetrating shot. Instead of missing or hitting a sitter off a good serve, he'd slice it back deep so that I couldn't really do that much with the ball. It turns out that he was watching pro matches and learning what they do and how they play - this is when defensive and baseline play became more prominent over the serve and volley style that we saw in the 1990s.

Today you see guys like Djokovic and Murray - they may have an advantage in the point and their opponent hits a high neutralizing ball, and they just go back to reconstructing the point. It doesn't bother them that they had an advantage and couldn't press it - they just go back into their patient point construction mode. The other guy doesn't look like he's putting a lot of physical effort into hitting the ball as well. He uses placement and positioning quite well. I think that you'd do better in a long, running point where he couldn't keep putting you out of position. He uses leverage quite well - the thing is can you repeatedly neutralize his leverage? Can you get him into a long crosscourt rally where he has to expend a lot of energy?

I've also learned to pick things up watching ATP matches and in viewing the Tips and Instruction forum here. It's little-by-little and I have to try things out but every little thing helps.
My game is centered around being consistent, I am a grinder that usually only goes for a shot when it is high percentage.

But when playing practice points I work on being more aggressive. If this was a real match I would have played a more consistent style. Also when playing a better player like this guy I try to be more aggressive.
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
#21
I don't find you were hitting overly aggressive here. Most of your shots were sitting up rather nicely to be hit back.

I think one thing you can definitely work on (as I have done myself) is hitting more angled mid-court balls - you have the top-spin FH for it, and you should use it more. You'll find a lot of points will run in your favour from this.
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
#22
Nice video. Your FH is definitely improving since it shows during match play, not just practice rallying.

I would suggest not editing out any points, good, bad or ugly. That way we can get a better, complete picture of how you play. Sometimes you can get good advice on double faults, shanked overheads, FH's that sail into the back fence, etc.
 
#23
I don't find you were hitting overly aggressive here. Most of your shots were sitting up rather nicely to be hit back.

I think one thing you can definitely work on (as I have done myself) is hitting more angled mid-court balls - you have the top-spin FH for it, and you should use it more. You'll find a lot of points will run in your favour from this.
I hit the inside out forehand more but have been working more on the cc forehand with the sharp angle.
 
#24
Nice video. Your FH is definitely improving since it shows during match play, not just practice rallying.

I would suggest not editing out any points, good, bad or ugly. That way we can get a better, complete picture of how you play. Sometimes you can get good advice on double faults, shanked overheads, FH's that sail into the back fence, etc.
I could show the entire clip I just figured it is boring watching all the dead time.
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
#25
I could show the entire clip I just figured it is boring watching all the dead time.
Oh, I meant not editing out any actual points. I thought "My Edited Video" meant you edited out some points. But yes, editing out dead time is good.
 
#26
Here is a clip from some points I played today against a much better player. This guy can kick my butt even while taking it easy on me.

My Edited Video
Good hitting ... point construction will follow a lot of playing. It takes time. That is a good guy to play, because you are getting to hit enough balls. I like what 5263 said about the 1:10 shot... but will throw in my 2 cents since we all face it. It's probably too early for this ... you just need to play a lot... but it is an example of how you will process passing shots in the future. They are dependent on your ability to hit your targets and vary the angle and spin depending on the pass.

Every passing shot is a calculation ... most aggressive to neutral:
1) can I hit a winning passing shot
2) if not, can I put the net guy in a bad spot with an aggressive shot (is the aggressive shot worth it in this particular instance)
3) otherwise hit a neutral shot ... keep the point alive

Your winning passing shot at 1:10 is dtl. There is more room than it appears, because your opponent is moving towards the middle. Any moderate paced FH that hits as deep as him (around service line) or deeper will be something he can't get to. Split the difference between him and the line ... as long as it's not a duck shorter than the service line... should be a winner. He's still pretty far back, so your big topspin is fine if you get it deep enough. When the opponent is on top of the net ... sometimes those dtl passes need to be flatter to counter his advantage.

Next aggressive option is cross court. If you had hit the same shot you hit, except a little less angle, a little deeper ... a little flatter ... you could have passed him cross court. At a minimum, that cross court is more aggressive than a neutral shot ... could gain the advantage. I always think dtl first ... but from the FH, if opponent is crowding the dtl (my friends do ... they know my habits) ... then a dipper cross court gets it done.

The neutral shot here with the opponent still at the service line is really anything flatter and low over the net. Even if right at him... a flatter ball catches him at his feet. Since the calculation is you are going for a neutral shot ... there is no point to risking hitting to close to the sidelines.

The other neutral shot is always the lob ... depending on opponents overhead skills and position in the court. In this case, opponent is too deep for percentage lob ... the low over the net neutral shot is the way to go. You already have really good topspin on your FH ... so no doubt you will hit FH topspin lobs over any net guy on top of the net, in the right situations in the future.

Man ... tactics is WAY more fun to talk about than technique. :)
 
#27
Good hitting ... point construction will follow a lot of playing. It takes time. That is a good guy to play, because you are getting to hit enough balls. I like what 5263 said about the 1:10 shot... but will throw in my 2 cents since we all face it. It's probably too early for this ... you just need to play a lot... but it is an example of how you will process passing shots in the future. They are dependent on your ability to hit your targets and vary the angle and spin depending on the pass.

Every passing shot is a calculation ... most aggressive to neutral:
1) can I hit a winning passing shot
2) if not, can I put the net guy in a bad spot with an aggressive shot (is the aggressive shot worth it in this particular instance)
3) otherwise hit a neutral shot ... keep the point alive

Your winning passing shot at 1:10 is dtl. There is more room than it appears, because your opponent is moving towards the middle. Any moderate paced FH that hits as deep as him (around service line) or deeper will be something he can't get to. Split the difference between him and the line ... as long as it's not a duck shorter than the service line... should be a winner. He's still pretty far back, so your big topspin is fine if you get it deep enough. When the opponent is on top of the net ... sometimes those dtl passes need to be flatter to counter his advantage.

Next aggressive option is cross court. If you had hit the same shot you hit, except a little less angle, a little deeper ... a little flatter ... you could have passed him cross court. At a minimum, that cross court is more aggressive than a neutral shot ... could gain the advantage. I always think dtl first ... but from the FH, if opponent is crowding the dtl (my friends do ... they know my habits) ... then a dipper cross court gets it done.

The neutral shot here with the opponent still at the service line is really anything flatter and low over the net. Even if right at him... a flatter ball catches him at his feet. Since the calculation is you are going for a neutral shot ... there is no point to risking hitting to close to the sidelines.

The other neutral shot is always the lob ... depending on opponents overhead skills and position in the court. In this case, opponent is too deep for percentage lob ... the low over the net neutral shot is the way to go. You already have really good topspin on your FH ... so no doubt you will hit FH topspin lobs over any net guy on top of the net, in the right situations in the future.

Man ... tactics is WAY more fun to talk about than technique. :)
I already play a lot usually 5 days a week all year long. This guy I'm playing in the video is one of the best players I face. He is solid 4.5 and I am 4.0 so I will continue to work on my game but all the good strategy in the world is not going to make up for the difference in talent between us.
 
#30
I already play a lot usually 5 days a week all year long. This guy I'm playing in the video is one of the best players I face. He is solid 4.5 and I am 4.0 so I will continue to work on my game but all the good strategy in the world is not going to make up for the difference in talent between us.
Yeah... I get that... just thought it would be a good break to talk tactics instead of all the stroke technique stuff. 5 days a week ... nice.
 
#31
Yeah... I get that... just thought it would be a good break to talk tactics instead of all the stroke technique stuff. 5 days a week ... nice.
Ya it's probably hard to believe I play that much but still not that good of a player. I keep working though even if I can make small improvements it keeps me motivated.
Nothing wrong with your suggestions most are pretty good, but the few clips I show of a few points does not show clearly how much better my opponent is.

As far as lobs go they are almost out of the question with this guy, he has the most consistent overhead shots that I have ever faced. You would have to have a great topspin lob that comes down quickly to even have a chance. I have hit overheads over him a few times and he will run back to the baseline let the lob bounce and hit a smash right by you. It's a tremendous shot and it's no fluke he can hit that shot almost everytime.
 
#32
Here is a clip from some points I played today against a much better player. This guy can kick my butt even while taking it easy on me.
/QUOTE]

It's great to see your desire to improve! Keep it up.

Here are some observations:

- Your serve is predominantly arm. As you incorporate more leg and rotation, you'll increase your power.

- Your momentum after the serve [ie 0:02] is leaning away from your target; you want to be leaning towards your target [even if you don't intend to come to the net].

- 0:18: you are fairly far back [maybe 7' behind the BL]. Is this because you're more comfortable there than closer? Unless you're taking giant swings at the ball a la Wawrinka, it seems too far back. You will be vulnerable to anything short. The DS at 0:22 is an example of this.

You did the same thing at 1:11.

- 0:29: how far off the court did you go to get his volley? I ask because you never came back into frame. It seemed like his subsequent volley was retrievable [unless maybe you gave up assuming he was going to put it away - I'd recommend running down everything if you're physically capable because you never know when it might pay dividends].

- 0:37: solid volley by opponent. If you know/suspect he's coming in, a dipper at the feet is your best bet unless you are trying to pass him outright. Yes, easier said than done.

- 0:55: I like the fact you were moving in. Maybe you just tightened up a bit?

- 1:47: I don't see any major flaw. Out of 10 tries, how many times would you make this shot? If 8 or more, keep doing it. If less, then maybe work on consistency.

You've got good shot selection and you don't generally overhit. My advice is just to concentrate on one or two things to avoid information overload. Enjoy the journey!
 
Top