Video Of Some Points

President

Legend
As always, you move extremely well for a guy of your age. You slice too many backhands though, IMO. Your two hander looks solid enough to take more balls on than you do.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
As always, you move extremely well for a guy of your age. You slice too many backhands though, IMO. Your two hander looks solid enough to take more balls on than you do.
You are right I just don't have enough confidence in my 2 hander yet.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
With your upper body, you should be able to serve much faster
I can serve faster but then my % goes down to much and I am 2nd serving all the time. So instead I just try and hit a solid spin serve and keep the first serve % up.
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
Nice side to side movement. TLM won't beat himself. Maybe the odd foray into net but that is quickly aborted and back to baseline solidness.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Nice side to side movement. TLM won't beat himself. Maybe the odd foray into net but that is quickly aborted and back to baseline solidness.
I can usually make the swinging volleys like the one I missed, but I definitely lack much of a net game. Just one more of the many things I need to improve.
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
Great stuff TLM, lovin your movement.

One piece of advice if I may - I see some rallies in the video where you're moving horizontally to the ball (good) - but whilst you're moving you still have the racquet in your hands (bad). Only when you have got to the ball do you then separate. You'll find that if you separate before/while you move then you will have more time, more balance and more control when you eventually hit the ball. It comes down to your unit turn - seems pretty subtle at the moment but its definitely there - just do it before you get to the ball, otherwise you're fighting time.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Great stuff TLM, lovin your movement.

One piece of advice if I may - I see some rallies in the video where you're moving horizontally to the ball (good) - but whilst you're moving you still have the racquet in your hands (bad). Only when you have got to the ball do you then separate. You'll find that if you separate before/while you move then you will have more time, more balance and more control when you eventually hit the ball. It comes down to your unit turn - seems pretty subtle at the moment but its definitely there - just do it before you get to the ball, otherwise you're fighting time.
Very good point your right I need to make more time for my swing.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Great stuff TLM, lovin your movement.

One piece of advice if I may - I see some rallies in the video where you're moving horizontally to the ball (good) - but whilst you're moving you still have the racquet in your hands (bad). Only when you have got to the ball do you then separate. You'll find that if you separate before/while you move then you will have more time, more balance and more control when you eventually hit the ball. It comes down to your unit turn - seems pretty subtle at the moment but its definitely there - just do it before you get to the ball, otherwise you're fighting time.
Here Federer seems to have both hands on the frame for as long as possible:

 

jga111

Hall of Fame
Here Federer seems to have both hands on the frame for as long as possible:

That may be so, but he still separates early.

His unit turn phase of the prep is complete (most important part) . His separation then follows seamlessly - as the ball has bounced he is fully separated, turned, balanced and ready to strike (9 seconds). This video shows the advantage of prepping early - look how many options he has (TS forehand, slice forehand, drop shot, etc).

To illustrate my point further, look at TLM's video on 2.02. It's a good shot by his opponent but nothing that should be untoward. On 2.02 the ball has bounced. TLM is not prepared though, and he takes his racquet back AFTER the ball has bounced. With early unit turn/separation he would have been striking forward on 2.02 without any requirement of any back swing, as he would have already been in the load phase of his shot. You really have to watch this in full speed to appreciate the speed and small measurements of time that bring context to what I'm talking about.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
To illustrate my point further, look at TLM's video on 2.02. It's a good shot by his opponent but nothing that should be untoward. On 2.02 the ball has bounced. TLM is not prepared though, and he takes his racquet back AFTER the ball has bounced.
I don't see him being too late, he moves pretty well. But there is a coach who actually advocates taking the racket back after the ball has bounced, even at pro level ball speeds.
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
I don't see him being too late, he moves pretty well. But there is a coach who actually advocates taking the racket back after the ball has bounced, even at pro level ball speeds.
He moves very well, I have already said that.

Would be interested to know why a coach would advocate taking a racquet back after the bounce. What is the benefit? Especially when there is a lot of room for error (timing).
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
He moves very well, I have already said that.

Would be interested to know why a coach would advocate taking a racquet back after the bounce. What is the benefit? Especially when there is a lot of room for error (timing).
Since the pros don't do it, I think we can safely disregard his advice.
 

Cheetah

Hall of Fame
Since the pros don't do it, I think we can safely disregard his advice.
Yes, disregard this advice.

You should always run with both hands on the racquet and separate at the normal time in relation to the incoming ball.
Running, especially with a degree of lateral movement while holding the racquet in one hand is NOT balanced.

The only time when you should run holding the racquet in one hand is when you have to sprint to the ball where otherwise you would not be able to reach it to make contact and this
would involve running without lateral movement ie: sprinting to get a drop shot or chasing down a wide ball like tlm did in that point. tlm's racquet running and racquet prep on that point was good.

The problem in that point was not his running or the way he held the racquet, it was the fact that he did not do a split step. He was flat footed and therefore reacted late which made the shot more difficult and he had to sprint just to reach it.
 

mightyrick

Legend
Yes, disregard this advice.

You should always run with both hands on the racquet and separate at the normal time in relation to the incoming ball.
Running, especially with a degree of lateral movement while holding the racquet in one hand is NOT balanced.

The only time when you should run holding the racquet in one hand is when you have to sprint to the ball where otherwise you would not be able to reach it to make contact and this
would involve running without lateral movement ie: sprinting to get a drop shot or chasing down a wide ball like tlm did in that point. tlm's racquet running and racquet prep on that point was good.

The problem in that point was not his running or the way he held the racquet, it was the fact that he did not do a split step. He was flat footed and therefore reacted late which made the shot more difficult and he had to sprint just to reach it.
Can't be said better. Simple, good advice.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Yes, disregard this advice.

You should always run with both hands on the racquet and separate at the normal time in relation to the incoming ball.
Running, especially with a degree of lateral movement while holding the racquet in one hand is NOT balanced.

The only time when you should run holding the racquet in one hand is when you have to sprint to the ball where otherwise you would not be able to reach it to make contact and this
would involve running without lateral movement ie: sprinting to get a drop shot or chasing down a wide ball like tlm did in that point. tlm's racquet running and racquet prep on that point was good.

The problem in that point was not his running or the way he held the racquet, it was the fact that he did not do a split step. He was flat footed and therefore reacted late which made the shot more difficult and he had to sprint just to reach it.
How do I work on getting the spilt step to become automatic?
 

Cheetah

Hall of Fame
I don't know the best method really but what I do occasionally for maintenance is to designate split step / recovery days where the one and only focus of that day is split step on every single ball and recovering. I don't work on form that day. I just totally set my mind on split steps. Those days you will always hit well because you will have much more time for prep and shot options. The danger is you will then be hitting well and start thinking "hey i'm on fire today I'm going to work on getting more topspin now!" and then your focus will **** to stroke technique and you will go back to not split stepping and falling back on the bad habit and not reinforcing what you're trying to accomplish. It takes discipline.
 

mightyrick

Legend
How do I work on getting the spilt step to become automatic?
It won't apply to you, but the best advice my coach gave me on the split step was basically to just treat my opponent's pending shot as if it was a serve. Do exactly the same thing. The problem I saw from your video is that you are also flat-footed on the return. You aren't on your toes right before the opponent makes contact. Even on the serve, as your opponent is about to make contact, you should be making a mini-split step or even taking a small step forward and then making a mini-split step.

You would gain a significant amount of time back to set up your shots.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
It won't apply to you, but the best advice my coach gave me on the split step was basically to just treat my opponent's pending shot as if it was a serve. Do exactly the same thing. The problem I saw from your video is that you are also flat-footed on the return. You aren't on your toes right before the opponent makes contact. Even on the serve, as your opponent is about to make contact, you should be making a mini-split step or even taking a small step forward and then making a mini-split step.

You would gain a significant amount of time back to set up your shots.
Yes I need to work on this, once in a while I concentrate on getting on my toes and staying light on my feet while just hitting around. That's when I realize what you and cheetah are talking about, I am like wow I am in much better position with more time to set up. I have a hard time transferring it into actual play though, I think I am to wrapped up into thinking of where to hit the ball and what to do against my opponents shots. I need to figure out a way like maybe what cheetah suggested to get this ingrained into my movement.
 

Avles

Hall of Fame
It won't apply to you, but the best advice my coach gave me on the split step was basically to just treat my opponent's pending shot as if it was a serve. Do exactly the same thing.
That's a nice way to think about it! Definitely applies to me as I split-step automatically on the return but am very inconistent about split-stepping during the point.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
That's a nice way to think about it! Definitely applies to me as I split-step automatically on the return but am very inconistent about split-stepping during the point.
I have noticed quite a few players that split step on returns but not as much during rallys. I don't split step very often on either so that is my next thing to work on.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
You never know, and you'll never find out...
Possibly, a fast quick Suresh would also hit harder, keep the ball IN, run everything down, and become Kei Nishikori.
But just as possibly, a fast quick Suresh would run past every ball, would be too nervious all the time, would hit just like he does now, or worse, hit so much harder nothing goes IN.
You cannot justapose one aspect into a person's game and expect the results to be algebra, math, or science.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Or, can you imagine a set against Tlm played by a server who picks on Tlm's backhand side, with occasional forays to the forehand side, the chips and charges to Tlm's backhand repeatedly, over and over again.
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
...are you challenging TLM to a match???



Or, can you imagine a set against Tlm played by a server who picks on Tlm's backhand side, with occasional forays to the forehand side, the chips and charges to Tlm's backhand repeatedly, over and over again.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
What for/
He posts the vids of him playing the same guy, over and over again. That guys stays back no matter what.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
I've said this before but when Sureshs fires up a PowerRhino charge towards the net, his mass and net coverage could force many rec players into multiple stages of panic and unforced errors.

This is why split stepping, footwork and balance is essential if you want to be top 5 ITF.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
What for/
He posts the vids of him playing the same guy, over and over again. That guys stays back no matter what.
Who is that guy? TLM does a great job in keeping his identity protected because we cannot clearly see who it is. He seems to be a quiet background guy like Luthi is to Federer.
 

skraggle

Professional
Forehand looks better for sure. Less of the scooping motion you were using most of the time in your first series of videos. But you are on your back foot way too much of the time. You seem like a pretty strong dude, but that power is wasted when you lean back when you hit. Transfer your weight forward and you will see less of a moonball arc and more court penetration in addition to the added power.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Or, can you imagine a set against Tlm played by a server who picks on Tlm's backhand side, with occasional forays to the forehand side, the chips and charges to Tlm's backhand repeatedly, over and over again.
I have played a lot of guys that use that style especially after the first set because they get tired of the backcourt game. It's usually players like you that are not in good enough shape and do not have good enough groundstrokes to battle for any length of time from the baseline.

It usually takes me a couple of games to adjust to the chip and charge tactic but unless someone is really good at it I don't have much of a problem. As far as serving and going to my backhand side almost everyone I play does this 90% of the time. Most of the time on slices I can run around my backhand so feel free to hit slices to my backhand, plus I can hit pretty decent slices right back.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
What for/
He posts the vids of him playing the same guy, over and over again. That guys stays back no matter what.

Wrong again Lee, I have posted video of playing me against a high school player a few times and also posted one against a tough 4.5 level player that did rush the net a lot.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
er... your idea of a challenge is my idea of pointing out what it takes to overcome a tough topspinning baseline player who only slices on his backhand side, and often float's heavy topspin on his forehand side.
I'm not saying TLM is not a solid 4.0, which I consider myself a LOW 4.0 in. I"m telling you guys the easiest first strategy against a player like TLM who stays back, loops the ball, and runs everything down side to side.
Not sure why TLM wants to contest everything I say. He must know that you can't pass a car in front of you if you stay behind it, so it stands to reason most 4.0's can't beat TLM by playing a baseline topspin game of attrition, TLM's kind of game.
I'd think, Papa Mango, President, and Shroud would destroy TLM when they are playing well, and might lose if their game is all akiltereed. Since we're all 4.0's, we can have good days, and we can have bad days.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
er... your idea of a challenge is my idea of pointing out what it takes to overcome a tough topspinning baseline player who only slices on his backhand side, and often float's heavy topspin on his forehand side.
I'm not saying TLM is not a solid 4.0, which I consider myself a LOW 4.0 in. I"m telling you guys the easiest first strategy against a player like TLM who stays back, loops the ball, and runs everything down side to side.
Not sure why TLM wants to contest everything I say. He must know that you can't pass a car in front of you if you stay behind it, so it stands to reason most 4.0's can't beat TLM by playing a baseline topspin game of attrition, TLM's kind of game.
I'd think, Papa Mango, President, and Shroud would destroy TLM when they are playing well, and might lose if their game is all akiltereed. Since we're all 4.0's, we can have good days, and we can have bad days.

Yes I am sure they would all destroy me, I would probably be lucky to get a game or two a set. I have watched video of some of the players mentioned and they look like solid players that can play pretty well. But I would by no means be to worried about playing against them. Some might beat me but to say those guys would destroy me is humorous at best.

I am not saying that your suggestions on how to combat my game cannot work because I know it can. The last time I was playing league tennis I had quite a few guys use this strategy especially after a set of playing baseline tennis. But most of them I still ended up winning against.

It usually went like this they would be effective at first making all their vollies and overheads. Then as I adjusted I started chipping my backhand slice low and in their feet and they started popping up vollies that were easy putaways for me. Plus I noticed that by the end of the match especially when it went 3 sets that a lot of players start missing some of their vollies and overheads at the end.

If I face someone that is really good at this style and can make good approach shots consistently then I may lose to them. But most I have played are not good enough to maintain that level for the entire match.
 
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indianballer

Semi-Pro
Yes I am sure they would all destroy me, I would probably be lucky to get a game or two a set. I have watched video of some of the players mentioned and they look like solid players that can play pretty well. But I would by no means be to worried about playing against them. Some might beat me but to say those guys would destroy me is humorous at best.

I am not saying that your suggestions on how to combat my game cannot work because I know it can. The last time I was playing league tennis I had quite a few guys use this strategy especially after a set of playing baseline tennis. But most of them I still ended up winning against.

It usually went like this they would be effective at first making all their vollies and overheads. Then as I adjusted I started chipping my backhand slice low and in their feet and they started popping up vollies that were easy putaways for me. Plus I noticed that by the end of the match especially when it went 3 sets that a lot of players start missing some of their vollies and overheads at the end.

If I face someone that is really good at this style and can make good approach shots consistently then I may lose to them. But most I have played are not good enough to maintain that level for the entire match.
I don't think those guys would destroy you. Lol. You would grind them into the ground. They will win games for sure. But they will lose. And suffer as they lose.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
I don't think those guys would destroy you. Lol. You would grind them into the ground. They will win games for sure. But they will lose. And suffer as they lose.
That's kind of what I was thinking these guys cannot move very well and most are not in that good of shape.

But if they play real quick points and come in and end the point fast fittness and quickness is not as important. Some of them may beat me who knows like I mentioned if a player can execute good approch shots and is a very good net player I could be in trouble.
 

indianballer

Semi-Pro
That's kind of what I was thinking these guys cannot move very well and most are not in that good of shape.

But if they play real quick points and come in and end the point fast fittness and quickness is not as important. Some of them may beat me who knows like I mentioned if a player can execute good approch shots and is a very good net player I could be in trouble.
I'm not even taking physical shape into consideration really. These guys miss way too soon. You don't miss as soon.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
I'm not even taking physical shape into consideration really. These guys miss way too soon. You don't miss as soon.
They play a more aggressive style of game. It looks more like old school style S+V tennis which can be very effective at rec level if a player is good at it. I have noticed some players that are not in very good shape and don't move very well use this strategy so they can survive the match, many could never last 3 sets playing baseline tennis.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
er... your idea of a challenge is my idea of pointing out what it takes to overcome a tough topspinning baseline player who only slices on his backhand side, and often float's heavy topspin on his forehand side.
I'm not saying TLM is not a solid 4.0, which I consider myself a LOW 4.0 in. I"m telling you guys the easiest first strategy against a player like TLM who stays back, loops the ball, and runs everything down side to side.
Not sure why TLM wants to contest everything I say. He must know that you can't pass a car in front of you if you stay behind it, so it stands to reason most 4.0's can't beat TLM by playing a baseline topspin game of attrition, TLM's kind of game.
I'd think, Papa Mango, President, and Shroud would destroy TLM when they are playing well, and might lose if their game is all akiltereed. Since we're all 4.0's, we can have good days, and we can have bad days.

Lee do you think that just you and your buddy's are the only ones that will use the chip and charge method against a player like me? I have had this used against me many many times. Like I mentioned it can be effective, because most players today stay back more this is the game I am used to. So when an opponent starts coming in a lot it can take some time to adjust to it.

Also I know it can work because I have had players beat me with that strategy, but not to many 4.0 level guys. Most 4.0 level players do not have consistent effective approach shots and their vollies and overheads will be somewhat erratic. Now I have played 4.5 level players that are excellent at net play and have good approach shots and know just when to come in. These guys are very tough and will beat me with this style of play, but the players you mentioned are not even close to the guys I am referring to.

If you watch the video of the 4.5 player that I posted you can see for yourself. This guy not only is excellent at the net but he can hit winning overheads from anywhere on the court. Plus he is an excellent server and is very quick, but again he is light years ahead of the guys you mentioned.
 

President

Legend

^Papa Manga and Shroud (both featured in that video) are good players, I think they would have interesting matches against tlm.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Papa M has the edge over both of us, he's younger, quicker, and can handle low approach shots without a blink.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Papa M has the edge over both of us, he's younger, quicker, and can handle low approach shots without a blink.
Wow I just watched that video again. These are the guys that would destroy me? That's pretty hilarious Lee, this looks like old mans tennis. Neither can move much and half the groundstrokes are chops and slices. It's pretty obvious that they run to the net and finish the point one way or the other because neither have the conditioning, movement or groundstrokes to play the backcourt game. You know it's bad when a player goes back on a routine lob and falls down.
 

coupergear

Professional
Wow I just watched that video again. These are the guys that would destroy me? That's pretty hilarious Lee, this looks like old mans tennis. Neither can move much and half the groundstrokes are chops and slices. It's pretty obvious that they run to the net and finish the point one way or the other because neither have the conditioning, movement or groundstrokes to play the backcourt game. You know it's bad when a player goes back on a routine lob and falls down.
Lol @ "old mans tennis". Pot calling the kettle black.
 
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