Video Of Some rally Points

tlm

G.O.A.T.
#1
Here is a clip of a game of 21 with drop feeds that I played against a very good hitting partner. You can tell that he is taking it easy and working on his back court game, plus he lets me start most of the points. This is a good practice game because you play a lot of points in a short time.

Plus it is a good workout with much less time between points. It also can make it more competitive when one player has a much better serve, like my opponent does.

My Edited Video
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
#2
Overall nice playing. On some points you reverted to your old high moonball trajectory FH and slice n dice FH which gave your 4.5 opponent ample time to attack.

I think the quickest way to improve your actual match results is to work on your 2hbh. Your 4.5 hitting partner seems hit to your BH to force an error, or come to the net to finish off the weak reply.
The easiest, fastest way to reduce your losses and increase wins is by improving the weakest shot which for you (as well as for the majority of players) is your BH.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
#3
Overall nice playing. On some points you reverted to your old high moonball trajectory FH and slice n dice FH which gave your 4.5 opponent ample time to attack.

I think the quickest way to improve your actual match results is to work on your 2hbh. Your 4.5 hitting partner seems hit to your BH to force an error, or come to the net to finish off the weak reply.
The easiest, fastest way to reduce your losses and increase wins is by improving the weakest shot which for you (as well as for the majority of players) is your BH.
No doubt my backhand needs a lot of work. I have been trying to develop a solid 2 hander, in the past I would slice most of the time. I still use the high ball to the backhand which can be effective, if you notice I got some errors and sitters from that shot.

I also still slice and dice because I like to mix it up. When you don't have that good of conventional shots you have to use whatever you can. My opponent is a level above me so I struggle just to hang with him. This video shows more continuos play which you mentioned I should post to give a better indication of my weak points, which this clip does pretty well.
 
#4
I don't think the problem is so much the bh but the fh. Your backhand seems to be a good neutral shot. Your bh doesn't need to be a weapon, just solid, as long as the fh is a weapon.
Your fh just sits there. Topspin but not a lot of energy, and so many of your forehands land around the service line. I don't think I ever saw you put him under pressure from the fh.

It seems to me that you are using spin as if that alone is a weapon. Sure, there are times to use spin for effect, but I've always thought of spin as a way to hit it hard and keep it in.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
#6
You should see the guy that fixed Shroud's forehand.
Unless shroud shows his improvement against a player in point play it does not mean much. Hitting off feeds or a ball machine means nothing compared to playing points under pressure.
 
#8
Unless shroud shows his improvement against a player in point play it does not mean much. Hitting off feeds or a ball machine means nothing compared to playing points under pressure.
Shroud posts videos of matches from time to time. So we should see something.

But technique improvement is the first step. You don't get to the next phase with just playing matches. You get there with making the change, internalizing it through practice and then using it in matchplay.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
#9
Shroud posts videos of matches from time to time. So we should see something.

But technique improvement is the first step. You don't get to the next phase with just playing matches. You get there with making the change, internalizing it through practice and then using it in matchplay.
I have been working on improving technique as you can see in this clip - My Edited Video
But like I mentioned hitting easier fed balls with no pressure like the clip of me hitting with my wife is easier than playing against a player that is a level above me. So I am doing what you are suggesting but it will take some time.
 
#10
Bad hitting partner. The guy floats all of his shots. Very poor movement and preparation. TLM, your last video in that other video was great. You showed progress and were really hitting balls with a flatter trajectory. But in this video, man, you totally regressed. The moment that points start being counted, you went back to hitting jammed moonball floaters and slice forehands.

There's no reason at all that you had to do that. Your hitting partner in this video was barely hitting any better than your wife in the other video. In fact, your wife is a more consistent and deep hitter than that other guy. Sorry, but it's true.
 
#11
Bad hitting partner. The guy floats all of his shots. Very poor movement and preparation. TLM, your last video in that other video was great. You showed progress and were really hitting balls with a flatter trajectory. But in this video, man, you totally regressed. The moment that points start being counted, you went back to hitting jammed moonball floaters and slice forehands.

There's no reason at all that you had to do that. Your hitting partner in this video was barely hitting any better than your wife in the other video. In fact, your wife is a more consistent and deep hitter than that other guy. Sorry, but it's true.
You might be right, like I said hitting in practice is different than when playing points. I guess until I get completely confident in hitting the flatter trajectory it will take time to become automatic.

What video are you referring to? I put one up a couple of weeks ago hitting with my wife. Then I showed one with this same guy and we were playing serve points.
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
#12
I guess until I get completely confident in hitting the flatter trajectory it will take time to become automatic.
You might have to commit to hitting the "new" strokes even though you might lose more, feel bad because not giving your opponent challenge, or consistent rally, might feel pressure. Well, the best way would be doing lots of practice with better player capable of feeding you with matchplay quality, but consistent strokes, and doing this for you, but that's called teaching pro and costs money usually. One could move you from mild feeds to faster feeds placed around the court to playing points, controlling that you keep the "new" swings (ones you try to develop) through the progression - all before you get back to actual match/point play in any form.
If you cannot or don't want to pick the clean practice progression this way, you should commit deliberately. Just keep hitting all shots properly no matter what, you may not care much of directions so far. Once you get some feel (if you got good enough in feed-practice, you could groove in through 20-30 minutes if you never step back from your target "new" strokes), continue with more directional control and point construction.

I sound like a broken gramophone, huh? If you like your flatter-better strokes and want to ingrain them, forget all else and oldie moonballs and do the "new" stuff exclusively until you start winning with it. Hope your hitting partners can tolerate that for some time ;)
 
#13
You might have to commit to hitting the "new" strokes even though you might lose more, feel bad because not giving your opponent challenge, or consistent rally, might feel pressure. Well, the best way would be doing lots of practice with better player capable of feeding you with matchplay quality, but consistent strokes, and doing this for you, but that's called teaching pro and costs money usually. One could move you from mild feeds to faster feeds placed around the court to playing points, controlling that you keep the "new" swings (ones you try to develop) through the progression - all before you get back to actual match/point play in any form.
If you cannot or don't want to pick the clean practice progression this way, you should commit deliberately. Just keep hitting all shots properly no matter what, you may not care much of directions so far. Once you get some feel (if you got good enough in feed-practice, you could groove in through 20-30 minutes if you never step back from your target "new" strokes), continue with more directional control and point construction.

I sound like a broken gramophone, huh? If you like your flatter-better strokes and want to ingrain them, forget all else and oldie moonballs and do the "new" stuff exclusively until you start winning with it. Hope your hitting partners can tolerate that for some time ;)
If you watch the clip were we played serve points I did flatten out more forehands. But like you say it will take a commitment to hit the newer style on every shot to ingrained it.

I like to use a combination of loopy and flat shots. Use the flatter trajectory to either open the court up or to put the ball away when there is some court open. When I took lessons this summer my coach said to use the loopy shot from the backcourt and mix in some flatter shots. But he wanted me to commit to the flatter shot anytime I could step into the court on a weak short ball.
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
#14
I like to use a combination of loopy and flat shots.
It's great to have both tools to apply them according to your game plan, and it's you (and your coach to some extent, if any) who shall decide if your tools are ready to use. The point is just whenever you're having hard times executing your preferred shot at moments you find tactically suitable, what you gonna do? At least when nothing is on stake but just today's score?
 
#15
It's great to have both tools to apply them according to your game plan, and it's you (and your coach to some extent, if any) who shall decide if your tools are ready to use. The point is just whenever you're having hard times executing your preferred shot at moments you find tactically suitable, what you gonna do? At least when nothing is on stake but just today's score?
That is a good point when trying to make changes you have to be able to say the hell with the score and go with the shots you are trying to develop, especially in practice points. Sometimes I have a hard time putting my competitive spirit aside and forgetting about the score.
 
#17
Here is a clip of a game of 21 with drop feeds that I played against a very good hitting partner. You can tell that he is taking it easy and working on his back court game, plus he lets me start most of the points. This is a good practice game because you play a lot of points in a short time.

Plus it is a good workout with much less time between points. It also can make it more competitive when one player has a much better serve, like my opponent does.
In general, you need to focus on your footwork: you are generally standing still and upright as your opponent is about to hit the ball which means you don't have a very balanced posture. Watch any high-level player and observe how much they are moving in between the time when they hit the ball to when their opponent hits the ball. This alone will pay huge dividends as hitting a stroke well starts with good footwork.

- 0:06: why did you slice? Probably because you weren't ready for the short ball and you stretched to get the ball rather than move your feet. Same thing at 0:52.

The slice at 0:56, OTOH, is understandable because you were being pulled off of the court. That's an appropriate situation for the slice because you're trying to buy yourself some time to get back to neutral. I like your shot selection [independent of the fact that it went wide].

- 0:21: nice pass!

- 1:08: I suggest letting the ball drop and hitting a normal TS FH [like your opponent does].

- 1:54: nice rally. Patient point construction, not going for low % shots. Are you thinking about where to hit? Do you have a target in mind? I encourage you to do so.

- 1:59: it seems you have a pretty tight grip on your racquet in general. That will add to being tense and will slow down your swing. I suggest loosening the grip and relaxing a bit and see what that does to your fluidity and power.

- 4:27: I noticed you tensed up before hitting your FH [as opposed to the previous shot where you were relaxed] and you fell a bit backwards after the shot. At the very least, you want to stay neutral in balance. Ideally, you move into the ball. Again at 5:35.

- 4:30: one of the reasons you couldn't reach the short ball was because you were so far behind the BL. This has happened several times in the videos you've posted. I suggest moving up a bit.

- 4:45: you should have continued on to the net. You are already almost halfway between BL and SL and your momentum is forward. Recovering backwards to the BL is actually more work than coming to the net. By retreating, you leave yourself vulnerable. In fact, he could have hit another short one, which would have been very difficult for you to get since your momentum is now backwards.
 
#19
That is a good point when trying to make changes you have to be able to say the hell with the score and go with the shots you are trying to develop, especially in practice points. Sometimes I have a hard time putting my competitive spirit aside and forgetting about the score.
You said it better in a past post. The word you used was "commit". And that is exactly what you need to do. Just commit to the shot. I think you will find (as many of us have), that once you truly commit to a shot, you will see better and more consistent outcomes. If you don't commit to a shot, it often times results in all sorts of fundamental flaws such as unorthodox/cheating form, actively guiding the racquet head, actively slowing your arm down, slower footwork and late preparation.

Definitely just commit. I like your word much better than "go for the shot". "Go for it" implies over-exertion or extreme physical effort/force. "Commit" implies more of a mindset where you are accepting of the shot outcome -- regardless of what it might be. IMHO, that is exactly what you need to do.
 
#20
You said it better in a past post. The word you used was "commit". And that is exactly what you need to do. Just commit to the shot. I think you will find (as many of us have), that once you truly commit to a shot, you will see better and more consistent outcomes. If you don't commit to a shot, it often times results in all sorts of fundamental flaws such as unorthodox/cheating form, actively guiding the racquet head, actively slowing your arm down, slower footwork and late preparation.

Definitely just commit. I like your word much better than "go for the shot". "Go for it" implies over-exertion or extreme physical effort/force. "Commit" implies more of a mindset where you are accepting of the shot outcome -- regardless of what it might be. IMHO, that is exactly what you need to do.
Yep your right I have to commit to the newer style shot and eventually it will become consistent and then confidence will follow. You never answered which video did you think I was hitting better in the one with my wife or the one when I was playing serve points?
 
#21
In general, you need to focus on your footwork: you are generally standing still and upright as your opponent is about to hit the ball which means you don't have a very balanced posture. Watch any high-level player and observe how much they are moving in between the time when they hit the ball to when their opponent hits the ball. This alone will pay huge dividends as hitting a stroke well starts with good footwork.

- 0:06: why did you slice? Probably because you weren't ready for the short ball and you stretched to get the ball rather than move your feet. Same thing at 0:52.

The slice at 0:56, OTOH, is understandable because you were being pulled off of the court. That's an appropriate situation for the slice because you're trying to buy yourself some time to get back to neutral. I like your shot selection [independent of the fact that it went wide].

- 0:21: nice pass!

- 1:08: I suggest letting the ball drop and hitting a normal TS FH [like your opponent does].

- 1:54: nice rally. Patient point construction, not going for low % shots. Are you thinking about where to hit? Do you have a target in mind? I encourage you to do so.

- 1:59: it seems you have a pretty tight grip on your racquet in general. That will add to being tense and will slow down your swing. I suggest loosening the grip and relaxing a bit and see what that does to your fluidity and power.

- 4:27: I noticed you tensed up before hitting your FH [as opposed to the previous shot where you were relaxed] and you fell a bit backwards after the shot. At the very least, you want to stay neutral in balance. Ideally, you move into the ball. Again at 5:35.

- 4:30: one of the reasons you couldn't reach the short ball was because you were so far behind the BL. This has happened several times in the videos you've posted. I suggest moving up a bit.

- 4:45: you should have continued on to the net. You are already almost halfway between BL and SL and your momentum is forward. Recovering backwards to the BL is actually more work than coming to the net. By retreating, you leave yourself vulnerable. In fact, he could have hit another short one, which would have been very difficult for you to get since your momentum is now backwards.
I went back and watched at the times you pointed out and you were pretty accurate and yes I need to move the feet more and relax the grip.
 
#22
Yep your right I have to commit to the newer style shot and eventually it will become consistent and then confidence will follow. You never answered which video did you think I was hitting better in the one with my wife or the one when I was playing serve points?
IMHO, you were hitting better in the one with your wife. But that's probably because your focus was totally different. You were trying to keep the ball lower on every shot (but keep the ball deep and in court). It was a wonderful thing. Your goal in the serve-point video was totally different.

There's a reason everyone was praising that hitting session with your wife. You showed something that nobody has seen from you, yet. That's the right path to follow.
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
#23
There's a reason everyone was praising that hitting session with your wife. You showed something that nobody has seen from you, yet. That's the right path to follow.
Only idiots praised it because he changed absolutely nothing in his techniques. :D:D:D He's always had three finishes, across the body, over the shoulder and the vertical finish. His inside in was always flatter and sometimes also his cross court. He's changed absolutely nothing about his techniques which, at this point, I greatly respect because he's outed people that dont notice things and wish to change his MTM based, effective game. :D:D:D He's a good player, no need to change.
 
Last edited:
#24
IMHO, you were hitting better in the one with your wife. But that's probably because your focus was totally different. You were trying to keep the ball lower on every shot (but keep the ball deep and in court). It was a wonderful thing. Your goal in the serve-point video was totally different.

There's a reason everyone was praising that hitting session with your wife. You showed something that nobody has seen from you, yet. That's the right path to follow.
In that practice I was working on hitting a flatter trajectory, which I have been trying to get better at. There are times that I do use the flatter shot more even when playing points.

My wife much prefers when I hit the flatter higher paced shots, she hits them better. That's why I have found that if I mix in high, low and medium trajectory shots it is effective in keeping opponent off balance.
 
Last edited:
#25
I have been working on improving technique as you can see in this clip - My Edited Video
But like I mentioned hitting easier fed balls with no pressure like the clip of me hitting with my wife is easier than playing against a player that is a level above me. So I am doing what you are suggesting but it will take some time.
Your forehand is noticeably improved! Good work
 
#26
Only idiots praised it because he changed absolutely nothing in his techniques. :D:D:D He's always had three finishes, across the body, over the shoulder and the vertical finish. His inside in was always flatter and sometimes also his cross court. He's changed absolutely nothing about his techniques which, at this point, I greatly respect because he's outed people that dont notice things and wish to change his MTM based, effective game. :D:D:D He's a good player, no need to change.

Pretty much true but I have developed a better lower trajectory shot. Which I still need to work on.

I worked with a coach this summer and he told me to use the looping shots from the baseline and throw in the flatter shot as a change up. But he wants me to hit the flatter shot whenever I get a short ball in the court.
 
#27
But he wants me to hit the flatter shot whenever I get a short ball in the court.
Just make sure this doesn't lead to more errors: a flatter shot + a shorter ball = less margin of error because you A) don't have TS to bring the ball back down; and B) you have less distance between your contact point and "out" territory.
 
#28
Bad hitting partner. The guy floats all of his shots. Very poor movement and preparation. TLM, your last video in that other video was great. You showed progress and were really hitting balls with a flatter trajectory. But in this video, man, you totally regressed. The moment that points start being counted, you went back to hitting jammed moonball floaters and slice forehands.

There's no reason at all that you had to do that. Your hitting partner in this video was barely hitting any better than your wife in the other video. In fact, your wife is a more consistent and deep hitter than that other guy. Sorry, but it's true.
I'd have to disagree. The guy that he's hitting against is pretty good at playing within his abilities and recognizing where to hit the ball.
 
#29
I'd have to disagree. The guy that he's hitting against is pretty good at playing within his abilities and recognizing where to hit the ball.
I agree [with your disagreement]: "bad" and "good" are relative and absolute terms and I'm not sure which one @mightyrick is using. However, on either scale, I would judge the partner to be "good".

Also, the point wasn't to analyze the partner; it was to analyze @tlm.
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
#30
I agree with movdqa. Tlm's hitting partner is a solid player who plays a smart game and makes it look easier than it actually is.
 
#31
I'm not sure what you guys are seeing. I guess I need to watch it again. Maybe it's like the movie Napoleon Dynamite and it gets better the more you watch it. All I pretty much saw was a guy who moves really slow, feet like cement blocks, and erratic off both sides. His opponent hit a few hard forehands which landed... but that's all I saw. I'll watch it again.
 
#32
I'm not sure what you guys are seeing. I guess I need to watch it again. Maybe it's like the movie Napoleon Dynamite and it gets better the more you watch it. All I pretty much saw was a guy who moves really slow, feet like cement blocks, and erratic off both sides. His opponent hit a few hard forehands which landed... but that's all I saw. I'll watch it again.
I don't think it's a matter of us seeing things you did not or vice versa. It more has to do with what scale you're using to judge "good" and "bad". I'm thinking my scale is more generous than yours.

Also, I wasn't commenting on tlm's play in that post; I was commenting on his partner's play in response to your post "Bad hitting partner." , which I assume you meant the guy on the far side of the court, not tlm.
 
#33
TLM: You are doing a much better job of relaxing your arm and not "Pirouetting" around the vertical/longitudinal axis of your body. Your old shot would be unusable as you get better because of the balance (and therefore recovery between shot) problems it would create.
 
#34
Just make sure this doesn't lead to more errors: a flatter shot + a shorter ball = less margin of error because you A) don't have TS to bring the ball back down; and B) you have less distance between your contact point and "out" territory.
This is true that's why I need to work on this shot so when I get the short ball I will have confidence to hit it.
 
#35
I'd have to disagree. The guy that he's hitting against is pretty good at playing within his abilities and recognizing where to hit the ball.
He is a real good player but especially in our rally games we play he is taking it pretty easy. When this guy goes all out he is a very good player.
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
#37
Here is a short clip showing my buddy put it on me and he is still not going all out.
My Edited Video
Nice video. That guy has a strong service game with good depth and placement. Moves pretty well for a big guy. You stayed pretty well with him though.
What happened to your Pacific racket? I was thinking about trying it as an arm friendly Pure Drive alternative. You went from Pacific to Wilson to Radical?
 
#38
Nice video. That guy has a strong service game with good depth and placement. Moves pretty well for a big guy. You stayed pretty well with him though.
What happened to your Pacific racket? I was thinking about trying it as an arm friendly Pure Drive alternative. You went from Pacific to Wilson to Radical?
Yes believe me this guy is a real good player. He is a good dude and lets me hang in there with him to keep it interesting. I liked the pacific racket but once i went outdoors i had a hard time controlling it so I went back to my wilson and just a month ago changed to the radical.
 
Top