Video Series Request for Essential Tennis and other sites: Get to the next level for adv rec

[HunterST]

There are several great sites out there for tennis instruction. My two favorites are Essential Tennis and Top Tennis Training.

Understandably, most videos from instructional tennis websites focus on fixing technique flaws and basic strategy. The vast majority of tennis players need to be focusing on those areas. However, there's not always a ton of content for advanced rec players. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of videos on these sites that are relevant to players of all skill levels, but the focus is rightfully on the issues that affect most rec players.

I was looking at a tennis club's schedule (not mine, unfortunately), and they had a class called "Advanced Adult Improvement."

Since most of us don't have an opportunity to attend such a class, I would be very interested in an instructional series that focused on that goal. That is, helping lower 4.5s become solid 4.5s and 4.5s move closer to 5.0.

There would probably be less focus on technique and more on strategy, drills, and tactics.

I was thinking there could be a few videos contrasting 4.0 and 4.5 matchplay as well as 4.5 and 5.0 play. The pros could try to pick out specific skills that the higher level players have that the lower level players do not.

They could then suggest certain drills to help develop these skills. They could also look at shot selection and talk about strategies in common situations.

Obviously the pros would have more knowledge than me and would be able to come up with more ideas for what to put into the program. Would other people be interested in this? This might be a good place to gauge the interest in such a series.

 

[heninfan99]

That would be an interesting series but I doubt there's much money in it.

I think Brent Abel would be a good choice for this since you're talking about adult players, I assume, and he won a bunch of Gold Ball trophies.

The Top Tennis Training guys are young and would imagine they no longer compete.

 

[ChaelAZ]

That would be an interesting series but I doubt there's much money in it.

That is the crux of the issue is trying to compensated for the time. We know most of the free 15+ minute instructional videos spend way too much time talking about what is wrong with strokes and very little time giving complete technique and play tips because they are only meant to be teasers so people buy into the better instructional videos. That isn't a knock, per se, but just the model most seem to follow.

We could certainly have discussion here, and there have been some that are really good give and take on things. Usually they break down to personal debates.

Same reasons most people don't post video for review, which is unfortunate because there are good players and advice in here among the other stuff.

 

[heninfan99]

Yep. HawaiiTennisPro has a ton of vids on 4.5 strategy but not too many views.

I'm not even sure if a 4.5 middle aged adult is that coachable or open to change.

That is the crux of the issue is trying to compensated for the time. We know most of the free 15+ minute instructional videos spend way too much time talking about what is wrong with strokes and very little time giving complete technique and play tips because they are only meant to be teasers so people buy into the better instructional videos. That isn't a knock, per se, but just the model most seem to follow.

We could certainly have discussion here, and there have been some that are really good give and take on things. Usually they break down to personal debates.

Same reasons most people don't post video for review, which is unfortunate because there are good players and advice in here among the other stuff.

 

[HunterST]

That would be an interesting series but I doubt there's much money in it.

I think Brent Abel would be a good choice for this since you're talking about adult players, I assume, and he won a bunch of Gold Ball trophies.

The Top Tennis Training guys are young and would imagine they no longer compete.

I do like Brent Abel a lot, too. I'm under 30, so I wasn't necessarily thinking of it as targeted to middle aged people. I was thinking it would be more focused on skill level. Even high school players could probably benefit from such a series.

There are obviously fewer advanced players than average players, so I agree the market is smaller. However, we shouldn't underestimate how many somewhat delusional people will identify themselves as "advanced" and be interested.

 

[GuyClinch]

vast majority of players 3.0/3.5 in reality..

Its not just this is 80% of the league population - but alot of the guys that don't play in league are this level or lower..in reality..

So from a business standpoint its a small segement. Not only that but for a 4.5 to become a 5.0 as an adult - they pretty much need to quit their job and just play tennis - or start teaching tennis.

Legit league playing 4.5s are MORE then good enough to teach - most teaching pros are 5.0 - 5.5.. Basically 4.5s that play tennis all the time..

 

[ChaelAZ]

Brady at Daily Tennis Lesson is good and does short, valuable tips and such. They do exactly what we teach in video production which is keeping instructional segments to about 5 minutes. And they are jam packed with content and application.

 

[HunterST]

vast majority of players 3.0/3.5 in reality..

Its not just this is 80% of the league population - but alot of the guys that don't play in league are this level or lower..in reality..

So from a business standpoint its a small segement. Not only that but for a 4.5 to become a 5.0 as an adult - they pretty much need to quit their job and just play tennis - or start teaching tennis.

Legit league playing 4.5s are MORE then good enough to teach - most teaching pros are 5.0 - 5.5.. Basically 4.5s that play tennis all the time..

Good point, maybe 5.0 is a little too high of a level. Maybe it should be more like 4.0 to 4.5. Really, I just mean getting to the next level when you pretty much have technical deficiencies fixed.

Obviously advanced players are a more niche market, but they're still a sizable group. Also, like I said, a lot of people will fancy themselves advanced even if they're technically not.

 

[JohnYandell]

You guys all want this for free on YouTube right?

 

[J J]

You guys all want this for free on YouTube right?

Lol. They can just subscribe to your website.

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[HunterST]

You guys all want this for free on YouTube right?

I'd pay for it if it were a reasonable price. Too many sites offer courses for like 200 dollars or more. I really liked some of the videos from Essential Tennis that were only a dollar.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Ian at Essential Tennis reminds me of a trendy church pastor or youth minister. No clue why. They put together some good stuff as well, though they get a bit long in the instruction and discussion/dissertation.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Ian at Essential Tennis reminds me of a trendy church pastor or youth minister. No clue why. They put together some good stuff as well, though they get a bit long in the instruction and discussion/dissertation.

The podcasts are great, especially the ones on mental toughness.

 

[JohnYandell]

I looked in the strategy section. We have over 50 articles from Craig O'Shannessy, Brad Gilbert, Allen Fox, Craig Cignerelli, Lance Luciani, Louis Cayer, Billy Previdi (the real doubles course...) me, Dave Hagler, and others. Free for a month. Versus $400 for a doubles course from someone with what expertise now?... hey we all make choices.

 

[JohnYandell]

As for mental toughness: again about 50 articles from people who actually know what they are talking about based on playing and coaching at the highest levels: Jim Loehr, Allen Fox, Jeff Greenwald, Craig Kardon, Damien LaFont, David Samuel... in online course world the ask would probably be a few thou.

 

[JohnYandell]

JJ,
For free for a month--but you do have to have a cc in case you become addicted.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I looked in the strategy section. We have over 50 articles from Craig O'Shannessy, Brad Gilbert, Allen Fox, Craig Cignerelli, Lance Luciani, Louis Cayer, Billy Previdi (the real doubles course...) me, Dave Hagler, and others. Free for a month. Versus $400 for a doubles course from someone with what expertise now?... hey we all make choices.

When you write "we have over 50 articles...", what is that referring to?

Also, you're comparing apples and oranges: the content on ET is free. If you want the supplementary stuff, yes, that costs $.

As far as expertise goes, I like ET [as well as Top Tennis Training, Fuzzy Yellow Balls, Daily Tennis Lesson, Jeff Salzenstein, etc.]. Their teaching styles match my learning style. If you're going to make it a "my contributors have won more than your contributors" contest, I concede.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

As for mental toughness: again about 50 articles from people who actually know what they are talking about based on playing and coaching at the highest levels: Jim Loehr, Allen Fox, Jeff Greenwald, Craig Kardon, Damien LaFont, David Samuel... in online course world the ask would probably be a few thou.

So the people on ET don't know what they're talking about? Hmm: did you listen to the podcasts before casting judgment? Admittedly I don't have a large sample against which to compare. But I like what I've heard.

 

[JohnYandell]

Hey guys go look for yourself if you have any interest. 50 articles are 50 detailed, full length articles. In fact you can read every frickin article on the site in all categories in a month! People have. That's all I am saying. Yes, I believe we have something more authentic and more valuable to offer.

 

[heninfan99]

I do like Brent Abel a lot, too. I'm under 30, so I wasn't necessarily thinking of it as targeted to middle aged people. I was thinking it would be more focused on skill level. Even high school players could probably benefit from such a series.

There are obviously fewer advanced players than average players, so I agree the market is smaller. However, we shouldn't underestimate how many somewhat delusional people will identify themselves as "advanced" and be interested.

You said it was strategy you're looking for. The older guys actively winning trophies know strategy.

I think your demographic is incredibly small. A 29 yr old 4.5 that's enthusiastically trying to get to 5.0. What's the point exactly?

 

[heninfan99]

Ian at Essential Tennis reminds me of a trendy church pastor or youth minister. No clue why. They put together some good stuff as well, though they get a bit long in the instruction and discussion/dissertation.

HA! Good call, he does have a youth minister vibe which is quite friendly and nice as long as he doesn't try to recruit anyone into a cult.

All these different approaches to online coaching would be a good research subject for a business student. FYB seemed to have first mover advantage on YouTube and profited the most but Essential brought the high quality production.

I really thought Salzenstein would destroy them all with his pro experience but I was wrong. And then Top Tennis raised the game by doing videos with Nalby & Ferrer.

Yet and still I think only Brent Abel is winning trophies at the moment.
Respectful mentions to Feel Tennis, Coach Mauro and HawiaanTennisPro(also an active player).

 

[ChaelAZ]

Salzentein is a great coach but his training stuff was way too predatory/spammy. I blocked his stuff within a few days of signing up years back.

If you look at YouTube views you'll see what works and what doesn't. If you can get half a million views, or even a quarter million and you are using Google ads, you'll pay for production and some additional costs. So that part alone is good, so subscriptions or sales after that are less pressured.

Being approachable and personable makes a huge difference. Ian is great, but Kirby is awesome. Great part of that team. Their tennis getaways look like a blast too.


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[heninfan99]

Salzentein is a great coach but his training stuff was way too predatory/spammy. I blocked his stuff within a few days of signing up years back.

I would be surprised if pressure tactics/squeeze pages like that would work on tennis players.

I have feeling he might change his strategy soon.

 

[HunterST]

You said it was strategy you're looking for. The older guys actively winning trophies know strategy.

I think your demographic is incredibly small. A 29 yr old 4.5 that's enthusiastically trying to get to 5.0. What's the point exactly?

True, those older guys playing for Gold Balls play incredibly smart tennis.

I don't think it's so small. It's basically just people on the high end of 4.0 who want to improve. Most content is aimed at the 3.5 to low 4.0 player who is still trying to learn the shots rather than trying to become an overall better player.

 

[heninfan99]

True, those older guys playing for Gold Balls play incredibly smart tennis.

I don't think it's so small. It's basically just people on the high end of 4.0 who want to improve. Most content is aimed at the 3.5 to low 4.0 player who is still trying to learn the shots rather than trying to become an overall better player.

Obviously, once you have all the shots rec players get bumped up by competing.

I wounder what "the experts" would say. Someone once stated that one of the key differences between college & pro tennis is the number of steps taken per shot/point.

 

[HunterST]

Obviously, once you have all the shots rec players get bumped up by competing.

I wounder what "the experts" would say. Someone once stated that one of the key differences between college & pro tennis is the number of steps taken per shot/point.

That's a great video!

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about achieving a certain NTRP as a goal onto itself. The goal is just to improve at tennis. I just used the NTRP ratings as a reference point for the skill level I'm talking about.

 

[heninfan99]

That's a great video!

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about achieving a certain NTRP as a goal onto itself. The goal is just to improve at tennis. I just used the NTRP ratings as a reference point for the skill level I'm talking about.

Oh, okay. Maybe one of us should shoot the ET guy an email.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Obviously, once you have all the shots rec players get bumped up by competing.

I wounder what "the experts" would say. Someone once stated that one of the key differences between college & pro tennis is the number of steps taken per shot/point.

I have been posting a bunch of Andrews match videos in other threads. I watch all his stuff. He improved over the last few years to move up, but he is an incredible mover on court. What always impresses me watching him play is the ease of his stroke. He can certainly crush balls, but he doesn't overpower everything and uses a lot of touch.

 

[heninfan99]

I have been posting a bunch of Andrews match videos in other threads. I watch all his stuff. He improved over the last few years to move up, but he is an incredible mover on court. What always impresses me watching him play is the ease of his stroke. He can certainly crush balls, but he doesn't overpower everything and uses a lot of touch.

Amazing mover. He kind of reminds me of a 5.0 Diego Schwartzman.

 

[GuyClinch]

I don't think it's so small. It's basically just people on the high end of 4.0 who want to improve. Most content is aimed at the 3.5 to low 4.0 player who is still trying to learn the shots rather than trying to become an overall better player.

So you think people hit their shots like Kevin Garlington and Jeff Salzenstein at 4.0 - and can't benefit from their online help..

I saw a legit 4.0 guy with a panckake serve in league play the other day. The online guys are covering the 4.0 guys just fine..

4.0 is not technically perfect.. by any stretch. So the videos which mostly deal with bad technique are covering that. Sure at 4.5 and 5.0 - technique for the most part gets better and the videos for that start to fade..

But that is when you improve your tennis via competition, trial and error, and specific professional help.., IMHO.

If you are 4.5 and want to get better. Maybe play in a few tournaments - open level.

 

[rchjr2091]

I have been posting a bunch of Andrews match videos in other threads. I watch all his stuff. He improved over the last few years to move up, but he is an incredible mover on court. What always impresses me watching him play is the ease of his stroke. He can certainly crush balls, but he doesn't overpower everything and uses a lot of touch.

Same here I always enjoy watching his videoed matches. I have seen a improvement in his play as well. His backhand for one.
I can't remember exactly but he stated he was a 3.5 in 08 maybe? ( I'd have to check to be sure) He is very quick to reply on his YT channel , he definitely seems humble and polite in his replies.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Same here I always enjoy watching his videoed matches. I have seen a improvement in his play as well. His backhand for one.
I can't remember exactly but he stated he was a 3.5 in 08 maybe? ( I'd have to check to be sure) He is very quick to reply on his YT channel , he definitely seems humble and polite in his replies.

Sounds about right. I found his videos sometime back and subscribed. Certainly a playing style and temperament I can work to emulate.


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[JohnYandell]

TFan,
Hope you are right.