Vintage Vibes

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Didn't Djokovic have like 66 UEs in this match. I mean if Nadal was in poor form at this past RG, then how bad was Djokovic here?

Incredible to also think that this was the last time Nadal has beaten Djokovic off clay, in fact, since 2011, Nadal has only had two wins against Djokovic off clay and both were in the period of one month - Canada and USO 2013.

Though credit must be given to Nadal here, he was in great form that season on HC.
 

Rafa4LifeEver

Hall of Fame
Didn't Djokovic have like 66 UEs in this match. I mean if Nadal was in poor form at this past RG, then how bad was Djokovic here?

Incredible to also think that this was the last time Nadal has beaten Djokovic off clay, in fact, since 2011, Nadal has only had two wins against Djokovic off clay and both were in the period of one month - Canada and USO 2013.

Though credit must be given to Nadal here, he was in great form that season on HC.
Nole could've won this if he had not failed to capitalise at 4-4 40-0 in set3.
In set4 though, it was for the first ever time that I saw nole giving up.
My takeaway from this match and the one in Montreal was the Nadal slice.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Nole could've won this if he had not failed to capitalise at 4-4 40-0 in set3.
In set4 though, it was for the first ever time that I saw nole giving up.
My takeaway from this match and the one in Montreal was the Nadal slice.
I don't know if he could have won this, it would have increased his chances for sure. I don't think in form Nadal was going to wilt away in the fourth set, he looked like he was ready to go five, Novak wasn't. Novak's really bad start and ending were key parts of this, you cannot hit 66 UEs and expect to be the winner of the match against a well playing opponent.
 

Rafa4LifeEver

Hall of Fame
I don't know if he could have won this, it would have increased his chances for sure. I don't think in form Nadal was going to wilt away in the fourth set, he looked like he was ready to go five, Novak wasn't. Novak's really bad start and ending were key parts of this, you cannot hit 66 UEs and expect to be the winner of the match against a well playing opponent.
Perhaps djoko was forced to up his agression out of his skin, because nadal was not providing him pace to work with off that backhand slice. One of Nadal's best slice performance for sure.
Though in general, yeah, nole was an error machine in set 1 & 4. He had purple patches for set3 & 4 but failed to capitalise.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Perhaps djoko was forced to up his agression out of his skin, because nadal was not providing him pace to work with off that backhand slice. One of Nadal's best slice performance for sure.
Though in general, yeah, nole was an error machine in set 1 & 4. He had purple patches for set3 & 4 but failed to capitalise.
Not really, Djokovic was far more aggressive in 2011, his most aggressive version ever and he had a better hold on how to control his shots. Nadal did well with the slice, yes and credit must be given for that, but Novak's level for a lack of a better term looked jaded, he seemed to be like walking a tight rope in this match, something I saw from him against Wawrinka in the semi final also, which again he was fortunate to win, because Stan had him on the ropes in that one.

The mental implosion after losing the third set was just bad though, he was still very much in that match and it was still all to play for, I mean he came back from 1-2 down in the semi, he even came the year before in the final from 0-2 to push it to five, after losing some tight first few sets, here he just vanished in the fourth. In all honesty the match was most competitve for set 2 and 3 and they split them 1-1, but Nadal was there to fight all the way, Novak just didn't want to after the third set. Sums up his 2013 really, Novak laid an even bigger egg against Murray in the Wimbledon final only a few weeks earlier.
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
Didn't Djokovic have like 66 UEs in this match. I mean if Nadal was in poor form at this past RG, then how bad was Djokovic here?

Incredible to also think that this was the last time Nadal has beaten Djokovic off clay, in fact, since 2011, Nadal has only had two wins against Djokovic off clay and both were in the period of one month - Canada and USO 2013.

Though credit must be given to Nadal here, he was in great form that season on HC.
66 UEs over 34 games, that's almost 2 per game, on a medium HC. Nadal did what he had to do, credit to him, but when your opponent gives you that many UEs, it's clear he's having a bad day.

20 in the 1st, 15 in the 2nd, 20 in the 3rd and "only" 11 in the 4th.

Compare that to 2021 RG Nadal who had 55 over 39 games. And this was on clay.

Nadal also had more winners: 48 to 43.
 
T

TheNachoMan

Guest
Whats with all the “2-1, bud” lately

Yes I’m salty, bud.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
66 UEs over 34 games, that's almost 2 per game, on a medium HC. Nadal did what he had to do, credit to him, but when your opponent gives you that many UEs, it's clear he's having a bad day.

20 in the 1st, 15 in the 2nd, 20 in the 3rd and "only" 11 in the 4th.

Compare that to 2021 RG Nadal who had 55 over 39 games. And this was on clay.

Nadal also had more winners: 48 to 43.
Djokovic fans now admitting Nadal had a bad day RG2021. Only took a week..
Djokovic could not handle the Nadal intensity at USO that day and same will happen this year if they meet. On Ashe Nadal in a final is close to unbeatable. 4-1 in finals.
 
OP is living in the past! Since that time Rafa hasn’t taken a set off Djoko on hard courts. The field on hard courts has caught up to Nadal especially the next gen. They have also changed the us open court from rafa’s cushy decoturf to laykold.

Therefore, no I don’t see a repeat or Nadal winning the us open this year.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
OP is living in the past! Since that time Rafa hasn’t taken a set off Djoko on hard courts. The field on hard courts has caught up to Nadal especially the next gen. They have also changed the us open court from rafa’s cushy decoturf to laykold.

Therefore, no I don’t see a repeat or Nadal winning the us open this year.
It's the last time he won a match against Djokovic outside of clay, what other match would you recommend then? He hasn't won a set since.
 

Rafa4LifeEver

Hall of Fame
It's the last time he won a match against Djokovic outside of clay, what other match would you recommend then? He hasn't won a set since.
Came close in 2016 IW first & 2020 ATP cup second set, but that's it.
Unless nadal stops standing in stands to receive nole serve, he'll always suffer
 
It's the last time he won a match against Djokovic outside of clay, what other match would you recommend then? He hasn't won a set since.
Exactly right. The other thing is to note rafa’s stamina, physical power, serve, return or BH are not as strong as they were even just 2 years ago.

Nadal has a lot of work to do if he gonna rectify all that in just 6-8 weeks. Especially considering he just lost at his best slam.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Exactly right. The other thing is to note rafa’s stamina, physical power, serve, return or BH are not as strong as they were even just 2 years ago.

Nadal has a lot of work to do if he gonna rectify all that in just 6-8 weeks. Especially considering he just lost at his best slam.
OK, here are some of my thoughts on Nadal as it stands.

I think he is really stuck between a rock and a hard place now, and it is because he is declining rapidly overall. He is still able to have short bursts of high level, high intensity play, but he cannot sustain that for too long now. Nadal has actively started to avoid playing HC events, with the sole purpose to focus on the clay, and RG, as that is still his best surface and where he is most likely to pick up a slam.

But herein lies the problem. By not playing so much outside the clay season, even missing slams as he is doing with Wimbledon in this case, he starts to put his eggs in one basket more and more when it comes to ranking points. The clay season becomes that much more important, as he is not picking up enough points everywhere else to keep his ranking high enough. He then overplays the clay season to get those points, plays with an urgency because he really cannot afford to lose early in any of them, and pushes his body too much in too little time, this time he got caught by Djokovic in Paris.....towards the end of the match, Nadal started to get a foot issue, because the match was so physical with Novak, his body started to break down, keep in mind, this guy had played the full clay season, MC, Barcelona, Madrid and Rome, plus a lot of high intensity practice sessions to go for the slam record.

What this has done now is cost him a shot at another slam in Wimbledon, he will bleed all those points he had there, and will fall down the rankings. As he falls down the rankings, his draws will continue to get harder and harder, as he is now struggling to pick up enough points on clay. Other players are noticing his lack in stamina, Nadal is blowing up like balloon now in slam matches that happen to go past three sets, Tsitsipas exposed it in AO and Djokovic throughly exposed it in RG, breaking his body down over the 4 hours to the point, Nadal is skipping the grass.

As we get to hard courts again, it is going to be a problem once again, he is more vulernable on HC now than before, the field has caught him up, he has lost all his last matches to Tsitsipas, Zverev, Thiem and Medvedev on HC, and lets not even mention how much Djokovic has his number there. I think this USO is a step too far for him, he isn't going to fix his stamina issues that quickly. He is a contender, because he is still Nadal, but he hasn't been doing himself any favors recently with his game and fitness. He's his own worst enemy right now.
 
OK, here are some of my thoughts on Nadal as it stands.

I think he is really stuck between a rock and a hard place now, and it is because he is declining rapidly overall. He is still able to have short bursts of high level, high intensity play, but he cannot sustain that for too long now. Nadal has actively started to avoid playing HC events, with the sole purpose to focus on the clay, and RG, as that is still his best surface and where he is most likely to pick up a slam.

But herein lies the problem. By not playing so much outside the clay season, even missing slams as he is doing with Wimbledon in this case, he starts to put his eggs in one basket more and more when it comes to ranking points. The clay season becomes that much more important, as he is not picking up enough points everywhere else to keep his ranking high enough. He then overplays the clay season to get those points, plays with an urgency because he really cannot afford to lose early in any of them, and pushes his body too much in too little time, this time he got caught by Djokovic in Paris.....towards the end of the match, Nadal started to get a foot issue, because the match was so physical with Novak, his body started to break down, keep in mind, this guy had played the full clay season, MC, Barcelona, Madrid and Rome, plus a lot of high intensity practice sessions to go for the slam record.

What this has done now is cost him a shot at another slam in Wimbledon, he will bleed all those points he had there, and will fall down the rankings. As he falls down the rankings, his draws will continue to get harder and harder, as he is now struggling to pick up enough points on clay. Other players are noticing his lack in stamina, Nadal is blowing up like balloon now in slam matches that happen to go past three sets, Tsitsipas exposed it in AO and Djokovic throughly exposed it in RG, breaking his body down over the 4 hours to the point, Nadal is skipping the grass.

As we get to hard courts again, it is going to be a problem once again, he is more vulernable on HC now than before, the field has caught him up, he has lost all his last matches to Tsitsipas, Zverev, Thiem and Medvedev on HC, and lets not even mention how much Djokovic has his number there. I think this USO is a step too far for him, he isn't going to fix his stamina issues that quickly. He is a contender, because he is still Nadal, but he hasn't been doing himself any favors recently with his game and fitness. He's his own worst enemy right now.
Spot on analysis. You summed up nadals predicament perfectly. Yeah he’s a 4 time champion so can never be written off but there are so many factors against him right now. You listed them all perfectly. That is a lot to overcome in 6-8 weeks.

Like you say him focusing on clay too much can become a negative if he ever loses the french open. It’s happened now and now cost him a chance at Wimbledon. He has not prepared that well on hard courts for a while and will be difficult for him to find it the high required level again this quick.

The next gen stars like you say and Djokovic are hard obstacles to overcome now. All it takes is one long brutal match and Rafa is in trouble with his weakened stamina at present. His serve is struggling, same with return off clay and his BH is suspect with poor errors that will be punished by the top 10 players in world.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Spot on analysis. You summed up nadals predicament perfectly. Yeah he’s a 4 time champion so can never be written off but there are so many factors against him right now. You listed them all perfectly. That is a lot to overcome in 6-8 weeks.

Like you say him focusing on clay too much can become a negative if he ever loses the french open. It’s happened now and now cost him a chance at Wimbledon. He has not prepared that well on hard courts for a while and will be difficult for him to find it the high required level again this quick.

The next gen stars like you say and Djokovic are hard obstacles to overcome now. All it takes is one long brutal match and Rafa is in trouble with his weakened stamina at present. His serve is struggling, same with return off clay and his BH is suspect with poor errors that will be punished by the top 10 players in world.
Exactly.
 
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