Volkl C10 Pro v Head Gravity Pro?

[setfan]

I currently own a Prince 93p 18x20 but find it a bit sluggish in competitive matches, with opponents able to retrieve the accurate but lower powered shots it makes.
I am planning to demo a Prince Phantom 100p plus a Prince ATS98, and have one more racquet to choose as a demo.
I have narrowed it down to either a Volkl C10 Pro or a Head Gravity Pro.
Feel, control and precision are important for me as I am more of a counter-puncher who likes to outrally (passing shots) although I do enjoy coming to net for volley winners.
Can anyone offer experience or thoughts on which of the two I should try?

 

[Crocodile]

For feel control and precision I would choose the C10 as long as the specs are correct, I used to use the 2011 version and I liked them more than the 2018 version because of the lower SW. The 2011 C10 came in at 323 SW whereas the 2018 was 330. While I have no problem using 330 I always felt the 323 felt better with the C10 especially for doubles and S & V. Now according to TW specs the current ones are around 326, but I have heard that the specs have been a bit variable.
While I haven’t hit with the new Gravity Pro I hit with the original one and felt that the big 100sq inch head ( in shape ) and north of 330 sw in a 315g head in a 20mm frame and 18/20 pattern felt a little less intuitive. Also some of heads SW were a bit over 335 so you just have to check each racquet on its specs.
As far as the 100P is concerned, I think Prince are making good racquets and the 100P and 93P are very good serving racquets with a lively feel.

 

[Ross K]

For feel control and precision I would choose the C10 as long as the specs are correct, I used to use the 2011 version and I liked them more than the 2018 version because of the lower SW. The 2011 C10 came in at 323 SW whereas the 2018 was 330. While I have no problem using 330 I always felt the 323 felt better with the C10 especially for doubles and S & V. Now according to TW specs the current ones are around 326, but I have heard that the specs have been a bit variable.
While I haven’t hit with the new Gravity Pro I hit with the original one and felt that the big 100sq inch head ( in shape ) and north of 330 sw in a 315g head in a 20mm frame and 18/20 pattern felt a little less intuitive. Also some of heads SW were a bit over 335 so you just have to check each racquet on its specs.
As far as the 100P is concerned, I think Prince are making good racquets and the 100P and 93P are very good serving racquets with a lively feel.

Which is the 2011 C10?... which paintjob/colours is this one?... a 323 SW... interesting.

 

[setfan]

I looked up the specs for the current C10 Pro (which I would be demo'ing) and the swingweight is 338, whereas the Gravity Pro is 332. I am guessing this might go against the C10 Pro re my reaction time with volleys and groundstrokes when under pressure...

 

[Hall]

I have played 2 years with the Prince Phantom 100p and changed recently to the Gravity Pro. For me the Gravity Pro is way better in control and power (it you create some racket head speed on your own)

 

[Crocodile]

Which is the 2011 C10?... which paintjob/colours is this one?... a 323 SW... interesting.

The predominantly yellow one with black stripes

 

[ngoster]

I've played with the Phantom 100 Pro and 2021 Gravity Pro. I felt that the string bed on Phantom felt too soft and trampoline-y. The Gravity Pro felt firm and gave me a more sense of control. I've never played with the C10 Pro but, spec-wise, it looks like the extra 2 pts of HL (8 vs 6) will be a big difference in feel and whip compared to the Gravity Pro.

 

[heavyD]

The Gravity Pro is one of the best frames on the market for intermediate to advanced players so you should at least demo it.

 

[pico]

Watching

 

[setfan]

I've played with the Phantom 100 Pro and 2021 Gravity Pro. I felt that the string bed on Phantom felt too soft and trampoline-y. The Gravity Pro felt firm and gave me a more sense of control. I've never played with the C10 Pro but, spec-wise, it looks like the extra 2 pts of HL (8 vs 6) will be a big difference in feel and whip compared to the Gravity Pro.

Thanks - just confirming the C10 Pro is 2 points more headlight (8) than the Gravity Pro (6)?

Would this mean the C10 Pro might be faster to respond at net when volleying, and possibly quicker response time on returns and shots under under pressure? But on the downside, maybe not as much feel or plough through when connecting with shots, as compared to a more solid, connected feel from the Gravity Pro and its heavier head balance?

 

[Deleted member 775108]

Thanks - just confirming the C10 Pro is 2 points more headlight (8) than the Gravity Pro (6)?

Would this mean the C10 Pro might be faster to respond at net when volleying, and possibly quicker response time on returns and shots under under pressure? But on the downside, maybe not as much feel or plough through when connecting with shots, as compared to a more solid, connected feel from the Gravity Pro and its heavier head balance?

Not automatically - No.

Assuming you get ON SPEC which is a BIG assumption

• It is 330g (345 strung so maybe 352 with OG+damp) unstrung for C10P vs 315g (332 strung so maybe 339 with OG+damp) for the GP
• Also 326sw C10P vs 332sw GP (strung) - from TTW averages.

 

[setfan]

Not automatically - No.

Assuming you get ON SPEC which is a BIG assumption

• It is 330g (345 strung so maybe 352 with OG+damp) unstrung for C10P vs 315g (332 strung so maybe 339 with OG+damp) for the GP
• Also 326sw C10P vs 332sw GP (strung) - from TTW averages.

I get that the C10 Pro is quite a bit heavier than the Gravity Pro (330g v 315g) but I am unclear what actual playing difference I could expect the C10 Pro headlight balance of 8 v Gravity Pro 6 will make, which am guessing is being reflected in the heavier swing weight of the GPro (332) v C10 Pro (326)?
Can anyone elaborate on what this might mean on the court? Cheers!

 

[chrisbc]

I get that the C10 Pro is quite a bit heavier than the Gravity Pro (330g v 315g) but I am unclear what actual playing difference I could expect the C10 Pro headlight balance of 8 v Gravity Pro 6 will make, which am guessing is being reflected in the heavier swing weight of the GPro (332) v C10 Pro (326)?
Can anyone elaborate on what this might mean on the court? Cheers!

If you thought the Phantom 93P felt sluggish in competitive matches, you'll most likely find the Gravity Pro even more sluggish. Between the two rackets you listed, the Gravity Pro has both a head heavier balance and a higher swingweight than the C10 which will make it feel harder to swing and maintain racket head speed over the course of a long match. Also, head quality control is all over the place, if you get an overspec swingweight gravity pro and one with an even head heavier balance than spec, then you are going to feel like you're swinging a hammer. Comparing on-spec rackets, the c10 will probably feel quicker and more maneuverable. Given that, feel is individual and you might like one racket over another despite the specs. With all that said, the c10 is also a heavy racket in terms of sheer mass by modern standards. In my experience, my Prince Phantom Pro 100 has more power, spin, and feel than my Gravity Pros.

 

[Boubi]

I currently own a Prince 93p 18x20 but find it a bit sluggish in competitive matches, with opponents able to retrieve the accurate but lower powered shots it makes.
I am planning to demo a Prince Phantom 100p plus a Prince ATS98, and have one more racquet to choose as a demo.
I have narrowed it down to either a Volkl C10 Pro or a Head Gravity Pro.
Feel, control and precision are important for me as I am more of a counter-puncher who likes to outrally (passing shots) although I do enjoy coming to net for volley winners.
Can anyone offer experience or thoughts on which of the two I should try?

In my opinion, C10 pro is much better
Fast, precise, comfy
The gravity has dead feeling
Out of memory as I used them a while ago

 

[pico]

String recommendations for the C10? Leather grip?

 

[ngoster]

Thanks - just confirming the C10 Pro is 2 points more headlight (8) than the Gravity Pro (6)?

Would this mean the C10 Pro might be faster to respond at net when volleying, and possibly quicker response time on returns and shots under under pressure? But on the downside, maybe not as much feel or plough through when connecting with shots, as compared to a more solid, connected feel from the Gravity Pro and its heavier head balance?

That is correct. The C10 Pro is 2 points more headlight (again, based on the specs on TW).

In general, the more headlight the racquet, the more it will feel faster to swing or quicker to maneuver. Imagine a hammer. When you hold it by the handle, it will be head heavy. When you hold it by the head, it will be head light. It will be easier to swing the head light hold. You are correct regarding the downside, however, you can only take advantage of any extra mass (which translates into plow) if you can generate the racquet head speed (RHS). Any extra mass that you aren't conditioned enough to handle will wear down on you which, in turn, will slow down you RHS even further. There's a balance in finding a swing weight that suits you. As others have mentioned, the C10 Pro's 326g SW seems like it has plenty of mass compared to today's frames.

@chrisbc also mentioned, if you thought the 93p is sluggish, then both the C10 Pro and Gravity Pro may feel even more sluggish. I have both and measured their static weights and balance strung with an O dampener and an overgrip. The 93p was 352g and 31.1cm (10 pt HL) while the Gravity Pro was 338g and 32.9cm (4 pt HL). The 93p was easier to swing. I don't know what it's SW would be but it had plenty of plow.

Something else worth mentioning is that all this is based on stock information. Balance and weight can be adjusted with customization. For example, you can make the Gravity Pro more headlight by adding weight to the handle. Changing the grip (assuming that it's a synthetic grip) to a leather grip will accomplish this.

 

[Trip]

For those who might have trouble comprehending, here's where @setfan is coming from:

​

So, you've got a 330g, 93" thin-beamed, flexy, super headlight player's stick with a dense string 18x20, raw feel and medium plow-through, and you're looking to retain feel, control and precision, but reduce sluggishness and increase power.

I think you should focus on sticks with the following spec range:
- Static Weight: at least 10-15g lighter -- to increase general wielding ease, and allow for a healthy amount of customization
- Strung Swing weight: >=310, <335, so you don't have to add to much lead to spec it up, but it's not too unwieldly in stock form either
- Strung Balance: at least 4pts HL, so you don't have to pile on too much handle weight just to get to a balance you're use to
- Head Size: 95-99" -- to increase power and forgiveness
- String Density: semi-dense 16-main or open 18-main pattern -- for best balance of control/spin/power
- Beam Width: >=21mm -- for a more rigid, guided, predictable flex response for the modern game
- Flex: low/medium to medium flex (low 60's to mid 60's RA) -- less energy bled off as pocketing/flex, more bludgeoning force at contact
- Feel/Layup: raw, unmuted, direct

Given the above, I would look at the following (most requiring a bit of customization, or more):
- Babolat Pure Strike VS - w/ 1g @ 6, 1g @ 9 & 3 each, 2-3g @ 12, possibly 3-5g lead @ 2" up the handle
- Dunlop CX 200 - w/ 5-7g handle weight, 1-2g @ 9 & 3 each, 2-3g at 12
- Head Radical MP and/or Pro - Pro w/ leather + 1-2g @ 12, MP w/ leader and/or 5-7g more handle weight + 2-3g @ 12
- Prince ATS Tour 98 - playable stock, maybe 3-5g lead @ 2" up the handle
- Solinco WhiteOut 18x20 - w/ 5-7g lead @ 2" up the handle
- Tecnifibre TF40 315 16x19 - w/ 2-4g lead @ 12
- Tecnifibre TFight ISO 300 - w/ 5-10g handle weight, 2-3g @ 12
- Wilson Blade v8 18x20 - w/ 10g in/on the handle
- Wilson Pro Staff 97 v14 - playable stock
- Wilson Pro Staff 97L or 97UL - spec'd up (thicker beam for additional stability + power)

From that list, you should find your successor, no doubt. Any questions, feel free.

 

[setfan]

If you thought the Phantom 93P felt sluggish in competitive matches, you'll most likely find the Gravity Pro even more sluggish. Between the two rackets you listed, the Gravity Pro has both a head heavier balance and a higher swingweight than the C10 which will make it feel harder to swing and maintain racket head speed over the course of a long match. Also, head quality control is all over the place, if you get an overspec swingweight gravity pro and one with an even head heavier balance than spec, then you are going to feel like you're swinging a hammer. Comparing on-spec rackets, the c10 will probably feel quicker and more maneuverable. Given that, feel is individual and you might like one racket over another despite the specs. With all that said, the c10 is also a heavy racket in terms of sheer mass by modern standards. In my experience, my Prince Phantom Pro 100 has more power, spin, and feel than my Gravity Pros.

Great feedback. Think I will give the Volkl C10 a try then, and compare it to the Prince 100p and ATS98. Hopefully I will find one of them to give me the 'right' feel and connection for my game!

 

[setfan]

That is correct. The C10 Pro is 2 points more headlight (again, based on the specs on TW).

In general, the more headlight the racquet, the more it will feel faster to swing or quicker to maneuver. Imagine a hammer. When you hold it by the handle, it will be head heavy. When you hold it by the head, it will be head light. It will be easier to swing the head light hold. You are correct regarding the downside, however, you can only take advantage of any extra mass (which translates into plow) if you can generate the racquet head speed (RHS). Any extra mass that you aren't conditioned enough to handle will wear down on you which, in turn, will slow down you RHS even further. There's a balance in finding a swing weight that suits you. As others have mentioned, the C10 Pro's 326g SW seems like it has plenty of mass compared to today's frames.

@chrisbc also mentioned, if you thought the 93p is sluggish, then both the C10 Pro and Gravity Pro may feel even more sluggish. I have both and measured their static weights and balance strung with an O dampener and an overgrip. The 93p was 352g and 31.1cm (10 pt HL) while the Gravity Pro was 338g and 32.9cm (4 pt HL). The 93p was easier to swing. I don't know what it's SW would be but it had plenty of plow.

Something else worth mentioning is that all this is based on stock information. Balance and weight can be adjusted with customization. For example, you can make the Gravity Pro more headlight by adding weight to the handle. Changing the grip (assuming that it's a synthetic grip) to a leather grip will accomplish this.

Thanks for that information - very helpful and much appreciated!

 

[setfan]

For those who might have trouble comprehending, here's where @setfan is coming from:

​

So, you've got a 330g, 93" thin-beamed, flexy, super headlight player's stick with a dense string 18x20, raw feel and medium plow-through, and you're looking to retain feel, control and precision, but reduce sluggishness and increase power.

I think you should focus on sticks with the following spec range:
- Static Weight: at least 10-15g lighter -- to increase general wielding ease, and allow for a healthy amount of customization
- Strung Swing weight: >=310, <335, so you don't have to add to much lead to spec it up, but it's not too unwieldly in stock form either
- Strung Balance: at least 4pts HL, so you don't have to pile on too much handle weight just to get to a balance you're use to
- Head Size: 95-99" -- to increase power and forgiveness
- String Density: semi-dense 16-main or open 18-main pattern -- for best balance of control/spin/power
- Beam Width: >=21mm -- for a more rigid, guided, predictable flex response for the modern game
- Flex: low/medium to medium flex (low 60's to mid 60's RA) -- less energy bled off as pocketing/flex, more bludgeoning force at contact
- Feel/Layup: raw, unmuted, direct

Given the above, I would look at the following (most requiring a bit of customization, or more):
- Babolat Pure Strike VS - w/ 1g @ 6, 1g @ 9 & 3 each, 2-3g @ 12, possibly 3-5g lead @ 2" up the handle
- Dunlop CX 200 - w/ 5-7g handle weight, 1-2g @ 9 & 3 each, 2-3g at 12
- Head Radical MP and/or Pro - Pro w/ leather + 1-2g @ 12, MP w/ leader and/or 5-7g more handle weight + 2-3g @ 12
- Prince ATS Tour 98 - playable stock, maybe 3-5g lead @ 2" up the handle
- Solinco WhiteOut 18x20 - w/ 5-7g lead @ 2" up the handle
- Tecnifibre TF40 315 16x19 - w/ 2-4g lead @ 12
- Tecnifibre TFight ISO 300 - w/ 5-10g handle weight, 2-3g @ 12
- Wilson Blade v8 18x20 - w/ 10g in/on the handle
- Wilson Pro Staff 97 v14 - playable stock
- Wilson Pro Staff 97L or 97UL - spec'd up (thicker beam for additional stability + power)

From that list, you should find your successor, no doubt. Any questions, feel free.

Excellent summary and suggestions there! The Prince ATS Tour 98 is on my list to demo so will see how it goes!

 

[basil J]

You can also try the C10 Evo and mod it to your specs. I have two of them with weight at 3:00 & 9:00 and a leather grip and they are just at 12 oz. with an over grip and 6 pts HL. IMO, much easier to play a long match with the evo than the Standard C10 . I get better topspin with the EVO, but hit a heavier ball with the standard C10 pro. been a long time user of Volkl/becker frames and the Evo is the best frame that Volkl has released it 10 years In my humble opinion. All of my friend who have tried mine liked them very much, but cant get past the cosmetic. I personally don't care what a frame looks like it if it plays well.

 

[setfan]

The C10 Evo sounds interesting also! Hard choice to choose between that and the C10 Pro, but will check out the specs and reviews. I am more of a flatter hitter, and dont have a naturally powerful game (more a counter-puncher that relies on accuracy), so on one hand the C10 Pro might be better, but then again the Evo being easier to play long matches with sounds nice also (as I am getting older/slower these days!)

 

[Vicious49]

The C10 Evo sounds interesting also! Hard choice to choose between that and the C10 Pro, but will check out the specs and reviews. I am more of a flatter hitter, and dont have a naturally powerful game (more a counter-puncher that relies on accuracy), so on one hand the C10 Pro might be better, but then again the Evo being easier to play long matches with sounds nice also (as I am getting older/slower these days!)

I have a pair of Evos I just put up for sale. But I have a 3rd I am keeping. In the end it depends on what you are looking for and how much weight you can handle.

All Evos come in way underspec compared to the 1 sample size TW used for their measurements. I added a bit of lead to get the SW in to 316-317. It played very easy at this spec. Very maneuverable and easy to hit short angle shots. I felt it lacked some putaway power though. I added some more lead and a leather grip. This was still about 10g lighter with a SW lower than the C10 Pros. This gave it a lot more power. But once I got up to these specs I figured I may as well stick with the C10 Pro since I don't have much trouble swinging it.

I am keeping my 3rd Evo at a much lower spec for feeding balls or hitting with someone new to the game. It's very easy to swing and easy on the arm.

 

[basil J]

My 2 evos were dead on spec. I got them last summer and they have proven to be a very reliable frame. Very consistent and predictable and at 11.4 oz strung you have a lot of room to customize, but the integrity of the frame remains unchanged. Some frames feel and play very differently after mods. the Evo retains all of its good qualities when you add weight without losing anything.