Volkl strategy with the 10 series

[Crocodile]

Just wanted everyone's take on the direction Volkl is going with their 10 series of mp and mid frames.
Firstly they still have the C10 which is good although I must say that the 2010 all yellow version felt more substantial than the next 2 iterations
The SG 10 mp 325 with a leather grip added and Powerbridge 10 Mid are good too.
However the V Sense 10 mp 325 to me came in a bit too unsubstantial ( It needs a leather grip and lead in the head) and both SG Mids are a bit thick and stiff in the beams.
Now they release the 10 Tour (with its DNX like 19.5 beam which sounds good), and V Sense 10 mid and I'm really not sure where they are going with this.
Your thoughts about this progression

 

[OldSkoolSlice]

Just wanted everyone's take on the direction Volkl is going with their 10 series of mp and mid frames.
Firstly they still have the C10 which is good although I must say that the 2010 all yellow version felt more substantial than the next 2 iterations
The SG 10 mp 325 with a leather grip added and Powerbridge 10 Mid are good too.
However the V Sense 10 mp 325 to me came in a bit too unsubstantial ( It needs a leather grip and lead in the head) and both SG Mids are a bit thick and stiff in the beams.
Now they release the 10 Tour (with its DNX like 19.5 beam which sounds good), and V Sense 10 mid and I'm really not sure where they are going with this.
Your thoughts about this progression

I am also interested in others thoughts on this - Volkl have a lot of different 10s currently. I use the 2010 all Yellow C10 Pros (2). I am wondering what I'll do if they break on me. At the moment I'd probably just switch to my Redondo MPs (3) - more wieldy but can string them with fencing wire and still arm friendly

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[vantageboy]

Just wanted everyone's take on the direction Volkl is going with their 10 series of mp and mid frames.
Firstly they still have the C10 which is good although I must say that the 2010 all yellow version felt more substantial than the next 2 iterations
The SG 10 mp 325 with a leather grip added and Powerbridge 10 Mid are good too.
However the V Sense 10 mp 325 to me came in a bit too unsubstantial ( It needs a leather grip and lead in the head) and both SG Mids are a bit thick and stiff in the beams.
Now they release the 10 Tour (with its DNX like 19.5 beam which sounds good), and V Sense 10 mid and I'm really not sure where they are going with this.
Your thoughts about this progression

love them doing a thinner beam on the new/old tour 10-butttt thay need to bring the flex back to the 10 series.

 

[n8dawg6]

the 10 tour looks good and feels good. havent noticed the increased stiffness being a comfort issue, it adds a little stability if anything. it is very anemic though and a little too light to be useful to people who can swing it fast enough to generate pace.

the 295 version is the same, but even more anemic.

 

[Hansen]

Your thoughts about this progression

you can call it progression, but to me they are disoriented

 

[Crocodile]

you can call it progression, but to me they are disoriented

Yes this is what I'm questioning whether disorientation is the thing.

 

[tom4ny]

Just wanted everyone's take on the direction Volkl is going with their 10 series of mp and mid frames.
Firstly they still have the C10 which is good although I must say that the 2010 all yellow version felt more substantial than the next 2 iterations
The SG 10 mp 325 with a leather grip added and Powerbridge 10 Mid are good too.
However the V Sense 10 mp 325 to me came in a bit too unsubstantial ( It needs a leather grip and lead in the head) and both SG Mids are a bit thick and stiff in the beams.
Now they release the 10 Tour (with its DNX like 19.5 beam which sounds good), and V Sense 10 mid and I'm really not sure where they are going with this.
Your thoughts about this progression

I still have a couple of C10's from 2007 (the bumblebee version). These things are flexy noodles compared to my SG10 mid 320's. I prefer hitting with my Tour 10 MP V-engines but I digress. I have not hit with the latest iterations of the C10's to know if the feel has changed much over the years.

I do love my SG 10 Mid 320's and just received 2 customized V-Sense 10 Mids. I had Paul Reed at TW match my spec of 12.2oz, 7.5HL, 320SW. Only hit with the V-Sense 10 Mid for an hour but my initial impression is very positive. I will follow up later when I have played with it for a few more sessions.

My take on what Volkl has done with the V-Sense line is that they have pulled back from the higher stiffness/muted feel/more power direction of the Organix and Super G lines to bring more feel and responsiveness back to the frames. My Super G 10 Mid 320's are stiff and hit a heavy ball but I never experience discomfort in my arm or elbow I believe due to the excellent dampening of the Bio Sensor handle. That pin that sticks out the top really does something. The V-Sense 10 Mid has a different handle that gives more feedback, and feels a lot like my Wilson BLX 6.1 95. It is crisp and solid but there is definitely more vibration from the handle than from the SG10 Mid 320. I had no arm pain but I could definitely feel the ball more with the V-Sense.

It seems to me that the 10 series in the V-Sense line is meant to be customized, and it does not take much customization to get a solid frame with great ball feel. You can do it yourself or have Paul Reed at TW do it for you for $20 plus materials. He has done fantastic work for me over the years.

The new 10 Tour I suspect will be a lot like the PB9, but with a snappier stringbed and firmer upper hoop. The ball will come off of the strings more quickly than they do off of the PB9. I would customize the V Sense 10 Tour so that it's also around 12.2oz 7HL with a SW in around 320 and I bet it will be great.

 

[Automatix]

The new 10 Tour I suspect will be a lot like the PB9, but with a snappier stringbed and firmer upper hoop. The ball will come off of the strings more quickly than they do off of the PB9. I would customize the V Sense 10 Tour so that it's also around 12.2oz 7HL with a SW in around 320 and I bet it will be great.

Keep in mind that 10 Tour is basically a stiffer PB10 MP with a 16x19 pattern.

As I wrote earlier, this is the mold & drill used be Almagro though my bet would be his has a different layup.

 

[Crocodile]

I still have a couple of C10's from 2007 (the bumblebee version). These things are flexy noodles compared to my SG10 mid 320's. I prefer hitting with my Tour 10 MP V-engines but I digress. I have not hit with the latest iterations of the C10's to know if the feel has changed much over the years.

I do love my SG 10 Mid 320's and just received 2 customized V-Sense 10 Mids. I had Paul Reed at TW match my spec of 12.2oz, 7.5HL, 320SW. Only hit with the V-Sense 10 Mid for an hour but my initial impression is very positive. I will follow up later when I have played with it for a few more sessions.

My take on what Volkl has done with the V-Sense line is that they have pulled back from the higher stiffness/muted feel/more power direction of the Organix and Super G lines to bring more feel and responsiveness back to the frames. My Super G 10 Mid 320's are stiff and hit a heavy ball but I never experience discomfort in my arm or elbow I believe due to the excellent dampening of the Bio Sensor handle. That pin that sticks out the top really does something. The V-Sense 10 Mid has a different handle that gives more feedback, and feels a lot like my Wilson BLX 6.1 95. It is crisp and solid but there is definitely more vibration from the handle than from the SG10 Mid 320. I had no arm pain but I could definitely feel the ball more with the V-Sense.

It seems to me that the 10 series in the V-Sense line is meant to be customized, and it does not take much customization to get a solid frame with great ball feel. You can do it yourself or have Paul Reed at TW do it for you for $20 plus materials. He has done fantastic work for me over the years.

The new 10 Tour I suspect will be a lot like the PB9, but with a snappier stringbed and firmer upper hoop. The ball will come off of the strings more quickly than they do off of the PB9. I would customize the V Sense 10 Tour so that it's also around 12.2oz 7HL with a SW in around 320 and I bet it will be great.

I certainly enjoyed the V Engine 10 mp as well as one of my favourite 10 series made.

 

[Pneumated1]

love them doing a thinner beam on the new/old tour 10-butttt thay need to bring the flex back to the 10 series.

You won't find it in this one, my friend. I hit it a few times. Not a hint of vibration but firm, borderline stiff--at least to me. My v-sense v1 pros are pillows by comparison. I'll stick with pillows and noodles.

 

[Pneumated1]

The new 10 Tour I suspect will be a lot like the PB9, but with a snappier stringbed and firmer upper hoop. The ball will come off of the strings more quickly than they do off of the PB9.

As I wrote earlier, this is the mold & drill used be Almagro though my bet would be his has a different layup.

In my limited experience with the frame, you're both correct.

 

[time_fly]

It seems to me that the 10 series in the V-Sense line is meant to be customized, and it does not take much customization to get a solid frame with great ball feel. You can do it yourself or have Paul Reed at TW do it for you for $20 plus materials. He has done fantastic work for me over the years.

I find it hard to believe a manufacturer would design a frame that is intended to be customized. Even the "light" versions are stiffened and balanced to be useful in stock form. A racquet that only plays well if you order it with customization from Paul Reed and TW wouldn't have much of a market.

That said, I was browsing Volkl's new frames and they seem to have a bunch that are almost, but not quite, what I would want.

 

[Crocodile]

I think where Volkl has made mistake is with the V Sense 10mp 325 for starters. Compared to the SG version they have dropped the swingweight and changed the flex from 65 to around 62 so where the SG is quite gutsy and stable the V Sense is not and I miss that. I think if you reduce stiffness you have to keep the mass or even increase it.
With the new tour 10 I'm happy to give it a go and customise to see if it's an improvement over what the SG offers.
With the mids I,ve used both 320 and 330 SG versions and prefer the 330 because the 320 is too light and stiff and I am not a fan of the feel. Will be interested to see what benefit the new mid will have over these frames.

 

[Automatix]

With the new tour 10 I'm happy to give it a go and customise to see if it's an improvement over what the SG offers.

My current frame is a PB 10 MP 16x19 prostock, granted it has different specs but still I'd like to demo the 10 Tour and most certainly will stock on grommets when TW gets them.

I'm glad that Volkl released the mold & drill used by Almagro but the configuration they went with satisfies very few IMHO.
Going through the specs I can't help but think that somehow the 10 Tour ended up as an open string pattern clone of the Wilson PS97S (which isn't liked in most parts due to the balance & swingweight combination, not to mention the string pattern).
310g unstrung weight with a 325mm balance isn't a common combination. Manufacturers usually go with 310-315mm for this weight, the exception being the PS97S of course...
I understand they wanted this frame to feel stable but they chose the least popular spec combination IMHO.

The good thing is that with a swingweight of 325 kg*cm^2 for many the mods will go down to adding weight to the handle (however 15g - which was the unstrung weight of the PB10MP, 325g unstrung, will move the balance to 315mm at most).

IMHO quite a few Volkl models need tweaking because the offerings are all over the place.
The 10 series for examples sake...
These should remain true to the 10 heritage and be flexible, <60RA flexible.
Volkl should stop this crap with 96 square inch frames labeled "mids". If they want a mid in the line-up then they should just release a 93 and not kid themselves and others.
Keep the specs for these models following these simple rules +320g unstrung weight, unstrung balance <315mm, no less than 320 strung swingweight and you're good to go.

 

[ollinger]

Your thoughts about this progression

The only strategy is to sell more racquets. This notion that there's a linearity and progression to changes made on racquets seems unsupported by any evidence. Volkl is like everyone else, they give you what they think the market wants. If development proceeded according to a philosophy of increased refinement, we'd still see Optispot and V-shaped throats on their frames, but those disappeared as soon as the marketing people decided it wasn't piqueing our interest.

 

[Hansen]

in my opinion its pretty futile to compete with the big 3, because most of the people who prefer these racquet brands are not open minded enough to try something different like pro kennex, pacific etc.. so these smaller companies must serve a niche. since there are almost no frames on the market with a plush feel (at least to the standards of the past) they could at least release ONE frame like the c10pro without the horrible specs (to heavy with a "low" swingweight) but that won´t happen

 

[Automatix]

in my opinion its pretty futile to compete with the big 3, because most of the people who prefer these racquet brands are not open minded enough to try something different like pro kennex, pacific etc.. so these smaller companies must serve a niche. since there are almost no frames on the market with a plush feel (at least to the standards of the past) they could at least release ONE frame like the c10pro without the horrible specs (to heavy with a "low" swingweight) but that won´t happen

Very, very true.
You wouldn't believe how many times I've heard at stores something along the lines of the following:
Customer: "Who plays with this?"
Sales guy: "Well... no one. It's a smaller company but provides very good qua..."
Customer: "Then it has to be pretty bad. Show me a Wilson/Babolat/Head..."

Sadly most buyers go by what the pros "use"... it's often even worse than that. They don't even know the endorsed model. It comes down to "Yeah, show me that black/yellow/green racquet Federer/Nadal/Murray is using!"

 

[ByakuFubuki]

Very, very true.
You wouldn't believe how many times I've heard at stores something along the lines of the following:
Customer: "Who plays with this?"
Sales guy: "Well... no one. It's a smaller company but provides very good qua..."
Customer: "Then it has to be pretty bad. Show me a Wilson/Babolat/Head..."

Sadly most buyers go by what the pros "use"... it's often even worse than that. They don't even know the endorsed model. It comes down to "Yeah, show me that black/yellow/green racquet Federer/Nadal/Murray is using!"

Yes, and in most cases the Brand is more than enough. I mean, for most people it's not even "Federer plays with the Pro Staff, Nadal plays with the AeroPro Drive/Pure Aero", but rather "Federer plays with the Wilson, Nadal plays with the Babolat". Even for some who know the models' names, the color scheme helps sales I think: "Ok, I tried Nishikori's Burn 95 and although I like the feel, it just doesn't cut it for me. I see, however, that Wilson has this Burn 100 thing which is lighter and has a bigger headsize, so I may give it a go. They wouldn't chose the same color scheme as Nishikori's Racquet if it wasn't similar, right?".

As a matter of fact, months ago an user started a thread about how he bought the Pro Staff 97LS because it was similar to Federer's Racquet but lighter asking if it was a good purchase and reacting badly to everyone who dared to say those two frames weren't really all that similar to each other.