Volleys, the answer to everything.

Zachol82

Professional
Well, maybe not everything but a heck of a lot of problems.

Playing someone that keeps slicing and annoying you with those weak, loopy shots?
Volley!

Playing an impressive baseliner that hits with amazing pace and power?
Volley!

Playing someone that puts mad topspin on their shots?
Volley!

Playing someone that volleys?
Heck, you better be better at volleying!

Playing someone that lobs?
...well, this is one of those few times that volleying might be risky.

The reason I find volleying so amazing is that a lot of shots, such as slice and topspin, are only affective AFTER they bounce. No matter how much you slice the ball or how much topspin you put on a ball, it's not going to be as affective until after it bounces. Even players with fast, flat shots can fall prey to a good volleyer since it requires a lot of pace to pass a volleyer and being a flat ball, it has a high chance of going out as well.

Last but not least, volleying is sure to put a lot of pressure on your opponent. You have so much angle up at the net to put the ball pretty much anywhere you want, you can also dropshot with ease.

Other benefits that come with volleys (besides earning a trip to the infirmary if you're not careful):
1. You use less energy at the net
2. You have more angle, therefore a lot more places to put the ball away
3. You put pressure on your opponent
4. You have more control over your shots
5. Winning a set with mostly volleys (pretty much tapping the ball), is pretty fun

So post if you love playing at the net!
 
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i love playing the net too =D but the whole statement about spin not doing anything while your volleying is untrue, if your opponent hits a hard slice then the ball has a slim chance that it will roll a little down the racquet while hitting it making the ball sit up for an easy drive volley
 
Nice work if you can get it

Agreed on most counts, except for "topspin effective only after it bounces". Unless you're dead tight on the net (exposing the offensive lob), heavy topspin will dip the ball down to your shoes and make it a tough volley. Yes, a brilliant drop volley will likely finish the point, but against a heavy pace shot that's a difficult execution.

What's missing is getting to the net. Once you're on top of the opponent and the reply isn't a passer, the net advantage is big. But if you put your approach short or soft, you'll get killed. And a good baseliner will not give you a short ball to move up on unless you move them around or push them back.

Doubles, though, is a whole different story.
 
How about you hold the truth until we get more people posting!?

But seriously, if you see a slice coming, chances are it's floating and should be slower than a normal shot. You should step up closer to the net and either dropshot it or smack it down to one side. Keep an eye on the ball at all time since slices are a bit trickier and tends to catch your frame.

If you're not winning the point after the 3rd volley, then just simply work on your volley more. Remember that keeping your calm and having good placement is the KEY to volleying, that's it. No need to smash the ball with all your might.
 
Agreed on most counts, except for "topspin effective only after it bounces". Unless you're dead tight on the net (exposing the offensive lob), heavy topspin will dip the ball down to your shoes and make it a tough volley. Yes, a brilliant drop volley will likely finish the point, but against a heavy pace shot that's a difficult execution.

What's missing is getting to the net. Once you're on top of the opponent and the reply isn't a passer, the net advantage is big. But if you put your approach short or soft, you'll get killed. And a good baseliner will not give you a short ball to move up on unless you move them around or push them back.

Doubles, though, is a whole different story.

Yea, you're right on that. However, a volley isn't something easy, I never said that. Volleying is probably one of the hardest thing for me to learn in Tennis, but it's a rewarding experience once you get it down. Of course, with successful volleys, you'd have to also have good footwork and placement as well, which is a feat in itself to be good at. Then there's the factor of getting used to your opponent's shots.
 
I love coming into net as well. When I play doubles I come in as much as possible, and when I play singles I still try to get in quite a bit. My hitting partner is very good at hitting passing shots though, so I have to wait for the right shot when I play singles.

The best part about rushing the net is that a lot of people aren't really used to playing against this style of play. They dump many shots into the net that they normally would make 9 out of 10 times in a baseline rally.

One problem for me with this style of play though is the serve. I recently noticed that my hand was slipping into my forehand grip during my preparation, even though I started in the correct continental grip. I'm focusing on staying in the continental grip now and it's driving me crazy. All the power is suddenly gone and my placement is practically nonexistent. I guess it'll just take a while to get used to it.

The drop volley is probably my best volley right now.
 
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Yea, you're right on that. However, a volley isn't something easy, I never said that. Volleying is probably one of the hardest thing for me to learn in Tennis, but it's a rewarding experience once you get it down. Of course, with successful volleys, you'd have to also have good footwork and placement as well, which is a feat in itself to be good at. Then there's the factor of getting used to your opponent's shots.

Another thought: net attack is always a % proposition. You can't give it up if you lose one or two S&V's or C&C's. On the other hand, 2 or 3 consecutive net putaways can put an opponent seriously off their game. Don't get me wrong: I definitely like net attack when I can get it.

I'm a longtime doubles player who now plays mostly singles. I start an unknown opponent with a baseline game. I'll take the net if I get a short/weak shot, but usually only bring out the S&V as a plan B.

On "gotcha", I've notice is in doubles serve return (usually BH side) I'm usually dumping the return at the service line, and sometimes charging behind it. That either pulls the server in or aims for their feet if the server followed the serve. With my partner already at the net, a lot of singles winners are covered.

However, in singles, that just dumps the return short in the middle of the court. Return of serve is one of my most challenging diffs between singles & doubles.
 
I think getting to the net exerts alot more energy than staying at the baseline. Plus if you can't hit good serves and approach shots that can take you to the net, you will get passed easily. I like playing the net but I suck at it despite the fact that I practice it more than my groundstrokes these days.
 
I think getting to the net exerts alot more energy than staying at the baseline. Plus if you can't hit good serves and approach shots that can take you to the net, you will get passed easily. I like playing the net but I suck at it despite the fact that I practice it more than my groundstrokes these days.

Agreed, especially behind a serve. I played 15 years of USVBA volleyball (think 4.5-5.0 USTA for vball). The V part of S&V is a lot like digging a spike: you're 100% ready for anything coming from anywhere, that burns a lot of enerfy.

Otoh, when I find a weak spot in an opponents service return I'll go after it with 50-75% S&V...putting away popups is a high percentage proposition.
 
yeah i find that i love volleying.

well i used to be real crap at volleying, but i have practised tons and gotten way better; i will put away volleys all the time.

and it has improved my game so much.
 
I love coming into net as well. When I play doubles I come in as much as possible, and when I play singles I still try to get in quite a bit. My hitting partner is very good at hitting passing shots though, so I have to wait for the right shot when I play singles.

The best part about rushing the net is that a lot of people aren't really used to playing against this style of play. They dump many shots into the net that they normally would make 9 out of 10 times in a baseline rally.

One problem for me with this style of play though is the serve. I recently noticed that my hand was slipping into my forehand grip during my preparation, even though I started in the correct continental grip. I'm focusing on staying in the continental grip now and it's driving me crazy. All the power is suddenly gone and my placement is practically nonexistent. I guess it'll just take a while to get used to it.

The drop volley is probably my best volley right now.

Well really thats what volleys are...just punching the ball so there wont be much power.Power comes from the swing but a 'real' volley doesnt require a swing.But i think thats completely none existent these days since a lot of people use swing volleys.But yea maybe im wrong?
 
Many excellent points made allready. I just wanna emphasize the importance of the things you need to do before you volley the ball.
Usually I find that the volley is the easiest part of playing a net rush strategy. The approach shot, moving from backcourt to frontcourt, and reading your opponents response have to be accomplished before you can hit your volley. If you dont do those well enough you can get passed or lobbed.

Most guys play baseline strategies these days. Personally I love rushing the net.
 
I find playing a serve and volley/ chip and charge style to be physically exhausting because you get no rest during the point. You are shortening the time between shots due to the spacing, you need to move actively and stay ready (no resting on your heels), and you need to chase down lobs. At the line, I feel like it's a couple seconds of rest (that slow motion toward the center after strokes) with a second of quick motion.
 
I find playing a serve and volley/ chip and charge style to be physically exhausting because you get no rest during the point. You are shortening the time between shots due to the spacing, you need to move actively and stay ready (no resting on your heels), and you need to chase down lobs. At the line, I feel like it's a couple seconds of rest (that slow motion toward the center after strokes) with a second of quick motion.

Its interesting that a number of posters have had this experience. I find it the other way around. The points are over in one or two exchanges instead of five or ten rallies from the baseline.
 
Agreed on most counts, except for "topspin effective only after it bounces". Unless you're dead tight on the net (exposing the offensive lob), heavy topspin will dip the ball down to your shoes and make it a tough volley. Yes, a brilliant drop volley will likely finish the point, but against a heavy pace shot that's a difficult execution.

What's missing is getting to the net. Once you're on top of the opponent and the reply isn't a passer, the net advantage is big. But if you put your approach short or soft, you'll get killed. And a good baseliner will not give you a short ball to move up on unless you move them around or push them back.

I reckon Ben has nailed it. These days your volley is irrelevant unless your approach is first class.

With volleying the hardest part is the topspin dipping before it bounces.

Most players don't have the touch to control these - plenty of older folks do though (not me). It's a dying art....
 
volleying is fun, and a great way to put pressure on opponents. but as others have pointed it out, it isn't easy. so i wouldn't encourage every player to just start crashing the net every point. first they must develop good volleys on both wings. second they should probably develop a smash for when they get lobbed. thirdly, they need to have good approach shots, or else going to the net will be worthless. so put in a lot of work up front with volleys, then make it payoff by getting to the net!
 
Well really thats what volleys are...just punching the ball so there wont be much power.Power comes from the swing but a 'real' volley doesnt require a swing.But i think thats completely none existent these days since a lot of people use swing volleys.But yea maybe im wrong?
When I said the power was gone I was talking about my serve.
 
There is no way that playing s+v takes more energy than baseline bashing. I play from the baseline most of the time, but sometimes i will come in often to practice at the net.

It is by far easier on the body to come in to the net. The point is usually over within 1 or 2 shots. The only time it is tiring is if your opponent keeps hitting good lobs+ you try running them down.
 
Playing someone that keeps slicing and annoying you with those weak, loopy shots?

Volley!

Playing an impressive baseliner that hits with amazing pace and power?

Volley!

Playing someone that puts mad topspin on their shots?

Volley!

Playing someone that volleys?

Heck, you better be better at volleying!

Going to net and tripping on your feet, priceless.

For everything else there is Mastercard. :)
 
There is no way that playing s+v takes more energy than baseline bashing. I play from the baseline most of the time, but sometimes i will come in often to practice at the net.

It is by far easier on the body to come in to the net. The point is usually over within 1 or 2 shots. The only time it is tiring is if your opponent keeps hitting good lobs+ you try running them down.

I have beaten guys before because they wore themselves down coming to the net and chasing down lobs so often. Others have said it, but I'll try, too.

When you're rushing the net every point, that takes a lot out of you. The points end quickly, granted, but it takes a lot more energy to rush the net as quick as you can (to get into a good position) and then you have to be 100% ready. If you're just bashing from the baseline, you're moving laterally and a lot of times you're not moving all that much unless you're at a high level of play.

Now, after rushing up to the net, you might have to try and chase down a lob. Again, this might not be as much of an issue at higher levels. However, at lower levels of play, you can often get after a crummy lob and that will wear you out, too.

As I said, I have played many matches where I won thanks to the opponent wearing himself thin early at the net and then taking exhausted wimpy swings later in the match.

That all said, I love coming to the net when I can. But I definitely find it more exhausting than the ol' baseline bash.
 
Topspin can definitely affect volleys with the ball dipping at your feet. If you get to the ball before it dips on a heavy topspin shot, you're playing the net way too close and you will get passed and lobbed easily on other volley attempts. Net play can be good, but it's far from the ultimate answer for all tennis problems.
 
lol i've seen people tripping on thier feet countless times coming to the net. They gotta learn first in thier head. You can't wait forever. It either goes in and is awesome or you miss and screw up the chance forever.
 
After the various comments about how many have failed at volleying. The answer to that is...L2P! J/k, but it all depends on if you like to volley or not as well. If you don't like it, then you're obviously not going to put a lot of effort into it nor want to practice it.

For those who said that volleying seems a lot more tiring for them than playing baseline, think of how your opponent feels. True, it takes a good approach and a lot of work to dash to the net. However, once you're at the net, your opponent should be exerting a lot more energy than you are since he's at baseline, trying to chase down your volleys...which better be from corner to corner to tire him out or dropshot to make him use up his energy to sprint to the net.

In the case of a lob, I find that lobs are pretty easy to deal with since they are defensive shots. Run to the baseline then take your time and volley it over. This is where placement is more important than power. Don't expect to run back to baseline at full speed AND smash at a lob. I volley back lobs just to avoid a slice lob or topspin lob.

Note that your opponent should only be able to hit a successful lob if you were not ready at the net or didn't place your volley well enough.

Always stay calm and confident at the net, if you're scared of the ball then chances are it's going to hit you.
 
You can volley a short lob, but a deep lob is almost impossible to volley unless you're already in NML. The best defense against a well placed lob is to not stand too close to the net.
 
Great topspin will always be the volley's enemy...
and if you don't get your volleys deep, get ready to eat a shot from your opponent!
 
If you get to the ball before it dips on a heavy topspin shot, you're playing the net way too close and you will get passed and lobbed easily on other volley attempts.

Admittedly, I play too close to the net when I come in. However, I never understood this. The closer you get to the net, the more angle you're able to cut off from the start.

Of course, I'm assuming a good approach shot. I'm not talking about coming in when the ball is down the middle and they can set up on it. But if I hit it to the corner, they are going to have to make a pretty good shot to hit a passing.

The only thing I admit is that lobs are a hassle if you get right up on the net, but if you can get up there and know they won't be putting any juice on their return to you...why not?

As in, please explain to me: why not?
 
I like playing the net, but I'm pretty good on the other side of the net too. I love facing net huggers because I lob the sh!! out of them. My lobs don't go 5 stories high and land short, my lobs go just high enough to go over my opponent's racquet and land just inside the baseline. If you're not standing at or near the service line when I put up a lob, you'll never, and I mean never, get to the lob. Do not hug the net. If you've ever faced a good lobber, you'll know what I mean.
 
Sorry soloaj, but net rushing does not use as much energy as baseline bashing. You say that a lot of times you are only moving laterally when staying back. Maybe sometimes, but you are moving every direction when playing someone that is as good as you or better at the baseline bashing game.

You also left out how much energy it takes to keep taking big cuts at the ball. I use a windshield wiper forehand+ apply a lot of topspin to the ball. This takes a lot out of you if you are playing someone who can keep it coming back. Believe me most of my opponents move me around a lot more than just side to side.

To me their is no comparison in the energy it takes to play from the backcourt versus coming to the net. I have played many that have told me that they are not in good enough shape to bang from the backcourt so they come in to save their energy.

You must not have played very many good baseliners or you would know the difference. Or maybe you dont have big groundstrokes so you dont realize how much that takes out of a player. Most netrushers i play dont have that good of a ground game, that is why they have to come in. They will get ate up playing from the baseline!
 
tlm, fair enough.

When I play people that aren't as good at me on the baseline, I definitely don't get worn out doing it. (Recall, I'm like a 3.0+). So a lot of my baseline play involves them with UE.

That said, when I play my friend who went to state or whatever, he definitely can wear me out. Generally, I don't have the speed to get to a ball eventually like 4 or 5 hits in. I guess if I was bashing with him in a 20 hit rally I'd wish I'd rushed the net.

So basically, you're right. I guess I was just thinking about it in terms of lower level play (~3.0) instead of higher level play (~4.5) by my standards.
 
Sorry soloaj, but net rushing does not use as much energy as baseline bashing. You say that a lot of times you are only moving laterally when staying back. Maybe sometimes, but you are moving every direction when playing someone that is as good as you or better at the baseline bashing game.

You also left out how much energy it takes to keep taking big cuts at the ball. I use a windshield wiper forehand+ apply a lot of topspin to the ball. This takes a lot out of you if you are playing someone who can keep it coming back. Believe me most of my opponents move me around a lot more than just side to side.

To me their is no comparison in the energy it takes to play from the backcourt versus coming to the net. I have played many that have told me that they are not in good enough shape to bang from the backcourt so they come in to save their energy.

You must not have played very many good baseliners or you would know the difference. Or maybe you dont have big groundstrokes so you dont realize how much that takes out of a player. Most netrushers i play dont have that good of a ground game, that is why they have to come in. They will get ate up playing from the baseline!

People who come in b/c they aren't in good shape probably don't play a great serve-volley tennis, either (not saying they are bad players).

serve-volley doesn't require "CARDIO" aspect of the game, but you still have to be in very good shape to execute serve-volley well. If you constantly serve-volley, I think the legs will tire out quicker than if you were playing baseline tennis. It's because you are consistently making that explosive movement, while staying down low and putting strain on your legs.

I don't think you have to be as cardiovascularlly fit as baseliner, but you really need a strong pair of legs and high energy level to be succesful as a serve-volley.
 
Well, maybe not everything but a heck of a lot of problems.

Playing someone that keeps slicing and annoying you with those weak, loopy shots?
Volley!

Playing an impressive baseliner that hits with amazing pace and power?
Volley!

Playing someone that puts mad topspin on their shots?
Volley!

Playing someone that volleys?
Heck, you better be better at volleying!

Playing someone that lobs?
...well, this is one of those few times that volleying might be risky.

The reason I find volleying so amazing is that a lot of shots, such as slice and topspin, are only affective AFTER they bounce. No matter how much you slice the ball or how much topspin you put on a ball, it's not going to be as affective until after it bounces. Even players with fast, flat shots can fall prey to a good volleyer since it requires a lot of pace to pass a volleyer and being a flat ball, it has a high chance of going out as well.

Last but not least, volleying is sure to put a lot of pressure on your opponent. You have so much angle up at the net to put the ball pretty much anywhere you want, you can also dropshot with ease.

Other benefits that come with volleys (besides earning a trip to the infirmary if you're not careful):
1. You use less energy at the net
2. You have more angle, therefore a lot more places to put the ball away
3. You put pressure on your opponent
4. You have more control over your shots
5. Winning a set with mostly volleys (pretty much tapping the ball), is pretty fun

So post if you love playing at the net!

Your logic is truly flawed big time.

An impressive baseliner will most likely pass you everytime or lob you.
A topspin player will get the ball to high for a volley or too low so you'll have to dig.
Why would you want to be at net when your opponent is there too? Too risky
 
Sorry soloaj, but net rushing does not use as much energy as baseline bashing. You say that a lot of times you are only moving laterally when staying back. Maybe sometimes, but you are moving every direction when playing someone that is as good as you or better at the baseline bashing game.

You can't tell people what they feel in their reality. S + V ABSOLUTELY tires me out in comparison. The big thing is at my level people will dump the serve or hit it out.. Thus that charge in energy that you make is wasted. Secondly at low levels people often miss their first serve - and thus you have to charge in twice..

I S + V once in a while...as as surprise. To echo what other posters say - I think your points are unrealistic - or based on a low level of play. An person with impressive ground strokes (truly) is going to pass you very often without a fantastic approach. This is why net rushing fails so much in the pros.

Volleying is great for attacking pushers - if you can defend against the lob. I will give you that much. I actually go to the net a ton - simply because my crappy opponents hit so many short weak balls.

Pete
 
Volleying is great for attacking pushers - if you can defend against the lob. I will give you that much. I actually go to the net a ton - simply because my crappy opponents hit so many short weak balls.

This sums up the level of play of my friends that I play for the most part. It also explain, imo, why I initially stated that net rushing wears you out more. I rush a lot for free points, but they occasionally bomb a lob that I have to run down (and can).

As said though by others, I think the higher level you get, the more baseline bashing probably takes over as the more tiring.

That's what I'm thinking now anyway.
 
It's just a different energy expenditure...

There is no way that playing s+v takes more energy than baseline bashing. I play from the baseline most of the time, but sometimes i will come in often to practice at the net.

It is by far easier on the body to come in to the net. The point is usually over within 1 or 2 shots. The only time it is tiring is if your opponent keeps hitting good lobs+ you try running them down.

...in S&V, it's like you're doing wind sprints with a recovery between points. Baseline play is more like running a 10K. It's just a different mode. You'll notice that most sprinters can't run a 10K for beans, and vice versa...
 
Disagree...

Your logic is truly flawed big time.

An impressive baseliner will most likely pass you everytime or lob you.
A topspin player will get the ball to high for a volley or too low so you'll have to dig.
Why would you want to be at net when your opponent is there too? Too risky

...it's not black and white. Yes, a great baseliner will usually beat a so-so volleyer...but the reverse is usually true, also. Look at Sampras vs. Agassi. Some days, Pistol Pete would win, other days, it would be Andre. Doesn't invalidate either strategy. As far as being at the net when my opponent is there, fine by me. I usually do well at shoot outs with both of us at the net. And if you're gonna play any high level doubles, trust me, there will be a lot of points with all four guys at the net. You can win these exchanges, provided you have good volleying fundamentals, can move quickly, and can anticipate.
 
...it's not black and white. Yes, a great baseliner will usually beat a so-so volleyer...You can win these exchanges, provided you have good volleying fundamentals, can move quickly, and can anticipate.

Skiracer55 wrote a great piece on doubles strategy (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=218912&highlight=doubles). :)

I'd love to hear your thoughts on approach shots in singles. I play against hard hitters and life or death at the net is usually determined by the approach.
 
I think a lot of the strategy and counter strategy really depends on the level you play, your strengths, and your opponents as well.

I've seen some posts on here that make it sound like you can just lob or pass a serve and volley player.

I like to think of myself as an allcourt player. I serve and volley some, but also stay back some. I try to serve and volley on every big game point in my favor, so that if I win the point I win the game.

I play 4.5 tennis and am starting to play a lot of practice matches with 5.0 players. These guys are all very good returners with various strengths. Some have tremendous topspin groundstrokes, and some have amazing lobs during rallies or in doubles play.

None of them can take my serve and lob it with much control. At best they block back my serve, and it would take a lucky stab to lob it to the baseline. A topspin lob on my serve is out of the question at this level. When they win return points, it's because they step in and drive a winner, or dip a ball that I cannot half volley. This is about 25-30% of the time though.

About half of the time I get an easy kill volley - a sitter, and the point is over, or they make an error. Another 25-30% of the time, they give me a return that I must put in play as a set up volley - these are returns net high or lower.

Now, on points that I hit an approach volley and not a put away, I hit a volley that has backspin, and skids anywhere from 3 feet to the baseline to on the baseline. Let's just say it's about once or twice a match only that a very good topspin lob opponent lands that shot. Most of the time they will either make an error or I get an overhead around the service T. The reason is this ball stays very very low - it's only a foot off the ground, so is very difficult to get under for a controlled lob of any sort. I hit many of these right down the middle of the court, so it's the toughest lob there is - the shortest distance.

I have my good days and bad days like everyone else, and I mix it up depending on how well it's working against my opponent.

If it's done right though, serve and volley is a very, very effective strategy against anyone. I've done it on clay to hardcourts (although it's best on hardcourts). You can beat a serve and vollier, but let's not pretend it's an easy thing - you might just not be playing a very good serve and vollier.
 
Thanks, bro...

Skiracer55 wrote a great piece on doubles strategy (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=218912&highlight=doubles). :)

I'd love to hear your thoughts on approach shots in singles. I play against hard hitters and life or death at the net is usually determined by the approach.


...okay, here goes. Consider the following:

- An approach shot is any shot that gets you to the net. Therefore, the "S" in S&V and the "chip" in chip and charge are both approach shots, and if you want to spend time at the net, you should definitely consider both strategies. Remember, part of the idea of going to net is to shorten the points. A typical net point is approach shot, first volley to open up the court, angled volley or overhead to finish the point. If you're still hitting volleys at that point, the advantage just shifted to your opponent.

So part of the idea is, if you're going to go to net, go sooner than later. It'll work, of course, to have a long baseline rally followed by an approach shot and a winning combination at the net...but for most net rushers, such as yours truly, the less time I can spend on the baseline...for a point where I want to come to the net...the better my chances are of avoiding a stupid error.

So, by either S&Ving or chipping and charging, I'm getting to the net while eliminating the middle man, which is all those accursed rallies from the baseline! So, yeah, we'll talk about approach shots from a rally in a minute, but while you're working on that skill, also work on improving your S&V and chip and charge skills...which I can talk about in a separate post if y'all want.

Anyway, I totally agree that a good approach is quite often the key to succeeding at the net. Let's think about that a couple of different ways:

- First, when do you come to net? Meaning, you hit an approach shot off what kind of ball? The standard answer is "a short ball". So what's a short ball? The standard answer is "Any ball that doesn't get past the service line." I kind of like the answer my former coach (Dave Hodge) give out: "it's any ball you think is short enough to approach on!" Yeah, okay...there are a whole lot of balls that are just plain dumb to approach on, because you're most likely going to get reamed. However, consider the following:

- If you get a deep ball, but your opponent is waaaay out of court...it might not be a bad idea to hit to the open court and hustle on in.

- If your opponent hits you nothing, for example, but deep, hard, heavy balls...well, most of the time, these folks move well side to side on the baseline, but do not like coming forward. Chip or block a ball short and with an angle, and wade in.

- Net play, in general, requires an aggressive mindset and techniques. Most net rushers have a good volley...and they also have a good half-volley and the ability to hit balls on the rise, maybe with a half-volley stroke, kind of like Agassi did. If you're a net rusher, you probably want to try to hug the baseline, and when you get even a semi-short ball, it is often worth hitting it on the rise or half-volleying it to take time away from the other guy, and wading in.

- A lot of players love it if you bang balls from the baseline but hate it when you come to net. In other words, they don't like hitting passing shots. Against this type of player, you can often bluff your way in on anything and get an error or easy volley. I've seen great baseline ralliers basically lose it against somebody who was willing to charge the net at all costs, at all opportunities.

Okay, let's get back to the "standard" opening and approach shot for a minute. I've gotten a short ball, now what do I do with the approach shot? Well, there are several answers:

- First, get the damned thing in. Yes, it would be great if we could all drop an approach shot on a dime every time, and twist the opponent out of his shorts...but for those of us less than ATP level, that concept can produce more errors than approach shots that land in the court. The old Aussie dictum was "always approach down the line", which is generally good advice, because approaching cross court can open up the angles for the opponent too much. So go ahead, hit down the line...but aim for a foot to two feet in from the side line, same distance short of the baseline. That way, if you miss a little wide or long, it'll still go in, and if you don't, well, it's still a pretty good approach shot. Have somebody hit approach shots to that spot, then close off the lane on that side, and see how many winning passes you make. On the "get the thing in" thought, an approach right down the center is not necessarily a bad thing, especially if you are hustling to get to the ball and don't think you can stick the approach in a corner. Remember, a ball right down the middle takes away the angle on the passing shot.

- Second, I go down the line...fine. What kind of spin? Well, depends on your opponent. Some people like topspin that jumps off the court, other people hate it. Some people hit well off a slice approach...but a surprising amount of people hate it, because it doesn't come up, and they don't bend their knees. If I have the jump on the guy...say I'm hitting an inside out forehand to the backand corner, and the guy is still over on the forehand side...I'll probably give it a pretty good ride with some topspin and try to make the guy chum up an awkward shot. If the guy is well positioned in the middle of the court, probably slice...which usually hangs a little longer and gives me more time to get in. My backhand slice is one of my strengths, so a lot of my backhand approach, to either side, are slice, and they usually give me what I want, which is a floater for the first volley. On the forehand, you can slice or block it, too, just like a volley stroke.

- Next, I've hit the approach, now what? Well, follow the approach, watch the ball off your opponent's racket, split step, hit your first volley, move in for the kill. Why "follow the approach"? Because unless you know different, this'll give you the best shot at picking off the next shot. If you approach down the line, follow it, keeping yourself about a racket's length from the sideline...you don't have to stand right on the side line, but if you go to the middle, guess what? You just gave your opponent an easy pass down the line. What you want to do is take away the down the line pass and force him to hit a Roger Federer Incredible Cross Court pass...which even Roger doesn't do on a consistent basis. If you approach cross court, follow the ball cross court, and try to pick the direction early...this is the problem with approaching cross court, but if you approach cross court, try to follow the other approach shot dictum, which is "make the other player move 3 steps." If the guy is standing right in the down the line corner, I will go cross court and make him run.

- Okay, approach, split step, first volley...where does that go? Nick Bolletieri says "Never miss your first volley", which isn't bad advice. Meaning that this is the setup, not the coupe de grace, so you need to make a high percentage of first volleys, just like you need to make a high percentage of approaches. If you have a chance to hurt the guy with the first volley, either with pace, angle, or placement, do it...but if you've got to lunge for the ball, or can't come up with a forcing shot for whatever reason, just block it back and anticipate the next shot. An example would be, I approach down the backhand line, cover the down the line pass, the guy actually does rip one cross court...I'd like to hit an inside out volley to the forehand corner, but I'm stretched out and that's risky, so I just block it back down the middle and look for the next ball. The Bryan brothers, by the way, do this all the time...block it back deep, block it back deep, here's the easy ball, angle it away.

- Finally, first volley has the guy running around like his shorts just slipped down around his ankles, you can see where the pass is coming, go to that spot and angle it away for the winner. The key checkpoints on this one are (1) once you know where the ball is going, watch the ball and forget about what your opponent is doing and (2) don't try to slug the ball...just use good volley technique and "stick" the ball into the open court. With one of my coaches, once I got into the coupe de grace part of the show, I'd really try to lean on the winning volley...and I wound up missing a bunch of easy volleys. "Nice showboating," my coach used to say "But you lost the point..." Words to live by
 
It is real good post on approaching net.

First and foremost, I think you have to be willing to come to the net.

If I might add to your definition of short ball, "any ball which you think you can elicit a weak reply from an opponent and knock it off with volley".
Sometimes, you are forced to come in on a short ball just b/c you have no other option.

Another very subtle cue to approaching net is to recognize what position your opponent is in. You hit an approach shot (whether cross court or down the line), and you see your opponent getting there late, then you HAVE TO force your opponent to hit cross court passing shot, which means covering more down the line. You can also get subtle cues from their body position in relation to the ball.
 
I think a lot of the strategy and counter strategy really depends on the level you play, your strengths, and your opponents as well.

I've seen some posts on here that make it sound like you can just lob or pass a serve and volley player.

I like to think of myself as an allcourt player. I serve and volley some, but also stay back some. I try to serve and volley on every big game point in my favor, so that if I win the point I win the game.

You need a good approach, a good overhead, good kick serve, a good volley and a good half volley to be a good serve and volley player. Whereas a baseliner really needs good groundstrokes and perhaps good footwork to recover quicky...

It's not any surprise that most recreational players are baseline bashers.. The problem with so much advice - like just volley..(the OP) is that it assumes players have a skill set they might not have.


Pete
 
Its not any surprise that most recreational players are baseline bashers? Then why is it that 98% of the pros are baseline bashers? I see more s+v players at the recreational level than i do in the pro game.

And all a baseliner needs is good groundstrokes+perhaps good footwork. Wow i didnt know it was that simple. I play some good players i call net players, they come to the net often after a good approach shot.

They rarely if ever come in after a serve, there are many players that play this way. So you dont have to have a good kick serve+ you dont have to be good at half volleys.

The key is a good approach + knowing when to come in. If done well you dont have to worry about half volleys or overheads. Most of the time it will be an easy volley.

Again i will repeat that s+v is nowhere near as tiring as baseline bashing. Someone said that s+v is like sprints, that is not true. If you are sprinting to the net you are out of control. Any of the good net players i know sneak into the net, they dont sprint in.

I was watching 2 of the 5.0 players at the club i play at, playing a set. The one guy was one of the teaching pros who was coming back from a layoff. He kept coming into the net time after time, but he was getting passed over+over.Needless to say he only won 2 games in the set.

So later i asked him why he kept coming in even though he was losing most of the points. He said that he was out of shape from the layoff+ no way could he stay back+ bash from the backcourt. He said that it takes a lot less energy to come in+ get the point over, compared to staying back+grinding it out.
 
To have a good net game, all components of your net game need to be at least consistent / solid. Weakness is net game is MUCH MUCH more difficult to cover up than weakness in ground strokes. And if you don't have confidence in any of components of your net game, you will be rarely coming in.

Coming in to simply knock off an easy volley is usual mentaility for baseline huggers. Good players will come into the net to put pressure on the other players. To do the later, you need a solid net game otherwise the other players will begin to exploit that.

All these depend on the level of your play. At 3.5, simply coming to the net can elicit unforced errors, but at higher level, player begin to defend much better and will make you hit tough volleys / overheads even in defensive situation.

Like I said, Serve-Volley isn't like sprint, but it requires a great deal of explosiveness from your leg. Do 4~5 sets of serious squats, you might not be exhausted cardiovascularly, but your legs will cramp if you continue.
You don't need as much cardio to S-V, but you'd better be fit if you want to continuously execute S-V....
 
If you are playing someone with really good groundstrokes it is not easy in any way to cover up your weakness of groundstrokes. You will get blown off the court. Were do you guys come up with this stuff?

Coming in to knock off easy volleys is the smart all court player. When someone is good at coming in behind good approach shots that is the purpose, to knock off easy volleys. A good net rusher doesnt get caught that often having to make the really tough volleys.

The ideal player can do it all but there are not that many that have all the skills of big serve, good groundstrokes, good approach shots, good overheads+ on + on.

Most players learn what works best for them+ they usually focus on that style. Not that you shouldnt keep improving your whole game, but most will use what they are best at.

Most good baseliners are not that good at the net+ just like most net rushers dont have that good of groundstrokes, that is why they have developed their net game.
 
I said it's much more difficult to cover your weakness in your net game than in ground stroke.

If your bh stinks, then they are at least some ways to cover it up. Play it safe, run around, shot selection etc. Even though you don't hit the shot that well, you can still manage it.

But if your overhead strinks or fh volley stinks, you can't really find a way to cover it up.

The definition of net rusher is someone who's going to come into the net not only in offensive situation, but also in neutral situation. Assuming, they are at the same level, net rusher will be forced to hit tough volleys. I am only 4.0, and even I could make 4.5 serve-volleyer hit tough volleys. It's usually what seperates a good net player from the mediocre one; whether you can handle tough low volleys and overheads.

If a player is just coming to the net to knock off easy volleys, by no means he's a net rusher. This is what baseline huggers usually do. They stick to baseline, and when they come to the net, it's because they have volleys at least up in their shoulder height.
 
I think what I heard a couple of posts back...

...was something like "all court player", which is what Roger Federer is, and what Nadal is quickly becoming. If you put yourself into an either/or situation with "baseline hugger" or "net rusher", you're painting yourself into a corner, IMHO. There are people against whom I S&V, chip and charge on every point, others against whom I play a predominantly baseline game, with occasional forays into the net. Against a clever opponent, such as an all-court player...surprise...such as you find in 5.0 and above matches...surprise, I do the following:

- Start by playing my game. I'll try to take charge of the points from the beginning and shorten the points with me coming out the winner. This could be S&V, chip and charge, or start the point with a serve or return, stay on the baseline, then look for the first opportunity to come in to the net. If this works...I'm home free.

- If this doesn't work...I'll adjust accordingly. It's what all experienced players do. My former coach Dave Hodge, an Aussie, was an S&V player born and bred. If he was on his game...well, the other guy just got to watch the volleys and overheads go by. But when he wasn't on his game, he did whatever it took to win. I saw him on a day where he was flat physically, and couldn't buy a first serve or decent heavy forehand, win a match against a determined, crafty opponent...strictly on the solidity of his (Dave's) kick second serve, slice backhand, until the opportunity presented itself...and a lot of grit, hustle, and patience. In the final, he was his usual self, and S&Ved the other guy off the court in two quick sets.

So it's kind of the wrong approach, IMHO, to categorize yourself now and forever as a baseliner or net rusher. Whatever your preference is, it'll work great against a lot of people, but eventually you'll run up against somebody who can exploit the weaknesses of a one-dimensional game. I guess my advice is, if you're locked into one persuasion or the other, try something different. Even if you don't, for example, have a great volley and a great overhead and a great half-volley...just do it, as they say at Nike. Take a practice match with one of your mates and just try coming into net, a lot. You might surprise yourself, and if not, you'll know exactly what strokes, athletic moves, and strategies you need to work on...
 
Well, maybe not everything but a heck of a lot of problems.

Playing someone that keeps slicing and annoying you with those weak, loopy shots?
Volley!

Playing an impressive baseliner that hits with amazing pace and power?
Volley!

Playing someone that puts mad topspin on their shots?
Volley!

Playing someone that volleys?
Heck, you better be better at volleying!

Playing someone that lobs?
...well, this is one of those few times that volleying might be risky.

The reason I find volleying so amazing is that a lot of shots, such as slice and topspin, are only affective AFTER they bounce. No matter how much you slice the ball or how much topspin you put on a ball, it's not going to be as affective until after it bounces. Even players with fast, flat shots can fall prey to a good volleyer since it requires a lot of pace to pass a volleyer and being a flat ball, it has a high chance of going out as well.

Last but not least, volleying is sure to put a lot of pressure on your opponent. You have so much angle up at the net to put the ball pretty much anywhere you want, you can also dropshot with ease.

Other benefits that come with volleys (besides earning a trip to the infirmary if you're not careful):
1. You use less energy at the net
2. You have more angle, therefore a lot more places to put the ball away
3. You put pressure on your opponent
4. You have more control over your shots
5. Winning a set with mostly volleys (pretty much tapping the ball), is pretty fun

So post if you love playing at the net!

I think you make some very good points here.

Most people don't volley well, so don't expect much support.
Most folks don't go back for lobs, let alone well, and if they do, they usually don't do much with the overhead. Because of this, they tend to hang back closer to No mans land than being in Ideal volley position, which further distresses their volley potential. They get to hit from first volley position till they get passed.

I love taking a challenge like Rickson's and see if he can lob so well off my approach shots. I always think that I can make them eat those lobs with my kick butt overhead and i don't intend to let it bounce.
I'm sure he likes to get a player like me who will get in close tight and cut off the angles, and then try to lob me till I drop.
Thats what makes the match up so Great to play and watch!
 
Seems like about every 10 years we have a S&V player that can play with the big boys in the pros. But I love the effort. We're due. I miss Rafter. :)
 
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