WADA APEALS SINNER CASE

Rovesciarete

Rovesciarete

Hall of Fame
Most unlikely to have any hope of success, maybe they want to look more 'curious' and active after the heavy criticism about the handling of the cases of 23 Chinese swimmers....

An investigator gave the World Anti-Doping Agency a pass on its handling of the inflammatory case involving Chinese swimmers, but not without hammering away at the "curious" nature of WADA's "silence" after examining Chinese actions that did not follow rules designed to safeguard global sports.

WADA on Thursday released the full decision from Eric Cottier, the Swiss investigator it appointed to analyze its handling of the case involving the 23 Chinese swimmers who remained eligible despite testing positive for performance enhancers in 2021.
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......

But peppered throughout his granular, 56-page analysis of the case was evidence and reminders of how WADA disregarded some of China's violations of anti-doping protocols. Cottier concluded this happened more for the sake of expediency than to show favoritism toward the Chinese.
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ratherlosethanpush

Rookie
pizzadontdie said:
www.wada-ama.org

WADA appeals case of tennis player Jannik Sinner

The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) confirms that on Thursday 26 September, it lodged an appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in the case of Italian tennis player, Jannik Sinner, who was found by an independent tribunal of the International Tennis Integrity Agency (ITIA) to bear no...
www.wada-ama.org www.wada-ama.org
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Wada are appealing the no fault or negligence part, when it was accepted that the physio treated sinners open wound with his open wound.

Shock, horror wouldn't let there open wounds be treated by someone with open wounds and its not like physios would be trained to use gloves.

I admire sinners ball striking, but the reasons given seem top 4 meme standard.
 
GoatNo1

GoatNo1

Hall of Fame
whot a cirkus. he was positive. he become no1 and won some titles inclusive USO and then he will be maybe suspended. and if it will be as that it is again worst case scenario for nole! 3 no1 players after him are all asterisked and without strange political implementations nobody of them would be no1 until after USO24. that is lot of weeks stulen from nole.
 
Rovesciarete

Rovesciarete

Hall of Fame
The Eric Cottier report mentioned above, about the handling of the Wada and the Chinese entities of the investigation of the 23 swimmers. Now I understand more of the outrage about that in the Swimming community and even less so the reaction of the Tennis world....
 
Rovesciarete

Rovesciarete

Hall of Fame
The report of the Mariano Tammaro case is quite interesting in this regard:

  1. In the present case, the Father of the Player applied the Trofodermin spray to the Player's wound. Realistically, the Player did not have an opportunity to object to such medical treatment by his Father. However, the Player would have had ample time to carry out a research regarding the Trofodermin spray after it had been used on him by his Father, and before he participated in the Event on 11 October 2021. The Player did not even think to conduct the most cursory of investigations to find out what had been used on him and did not conduct any such investigation. The Player did clearly not act with no fault or negligence and is responsible for the ADRV. An elimination of the period of ineligibility is, under these circumstances, out of question, as indeed the Player himself sensibly recognized at the Hearing through his counsel.
  2. The Panel concludes that the Player bore fault for the presence of the prohibited Clostebol in his body on 11 October 2021. Hence, the applicable period of ineligibility of two years is not to be eliminated.
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If 'non-curious' WADA of heavy criticism fame for the Chinese swimmer case gets Sinner banned almost no athlete not involved in a clear case of big group contamination will be able to appeal successfully.....
 
J

JMR

Hall of Fame
Keizer said:
Seems like they have accepted the contamination explanation. It’s just the negligence part they disagree on. 6 months at most imo.
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Yes, the issue here is what WADA apparently perceives as the dilution of the in terrorem effect of the strict liability standard. As we have discussed here, Sinner's was not the first ITIA case in which a trivial inadvertent exposure was excused on the basis of a finding of no negligence. And even in a similar case in which the athlete failed to prove his lack of negligence, the Independent Tribunal pointedly criticized the impact of the testing rules on tiny exposures.

So WADA is basically saying, "Hold on -- even if a small inadvertent exposure was caused by doofus team members, we want the player to be punished for hiring such doofuses and/or failing to supervise them properly. It's still his fault." WADA is not worried about actual doping in this case; the fact that WADA is NOT seeking to invalidate any tournament or match results indicates that they don't believe anything was tainted by serious PED use. WADA just wants athletes and their team members to continue to be terrified of the testing process and any kind of positive result.
 
nolefam_2024

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
JMR said:
Yes, the issue here is what WADA apparently perceives as the dilution of the in terrorem effect of the strict liability standard. As we have discussed here, Sinner's was not the first ITIA case in which a trivial inadvertent exposure was excused on the basis of a finding of no negligence. And even in a similar case in which the athlete failed to prove his lack of negligence, the Independent Tribunal pointedly criticized the impact of the testing rules on tiny exposures.

So WADA is basically saying, "Hold on -- even if a small inadvertent exposure was caused by doofus team members, we want the player to be punished for hiring such doofuses and/or failing to supervise them properly. It's still his fault." WADA is not worried about actual doping in this case; the fact that WADA is NOT seeking to invalidate any tournament or match results indicates that they don't believe anything was tainted by serious PED use. WADA just wants athletes and their team members to continue to be terrified of the testing process and any kind of positive result.
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Wow. Then I stand with Sinner.
 
J

JMR

Hall of Fame
nolefam_2024 said:
Wow. Then I stand with Sinner.
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The ITIA released a statement that acknowledged WADA's right to appeal but defended the process and made it clear that the ITIA is a little annoyed at WADA's stepping on their toes in this way.

There is no evidence this case that either contradicts the account of Sinner's exposure to the banned substance or that suggests real "doping" was occurring. We might refer to that as the more "objective" part of the case. WADA is appealing the more "subjective" part of the case: how much should Sinner be held personally responsible for what happened? The three members of the Independent Tribunal in Sinner's case agreed on the result; there was no dissent. So, effectively WADA is arguing that they were wrong because they weren't merciless enough. "We need more hard-ass arbiters to enforce our rules!"
 
N

Net Beast

New User
Does anything in this case rub anyone off the wrong way?

Can anyone explain how Sinner tested positive twice? I understand the explanation that his trainer transferred some of the Clostebol to him via an open wound while giving him a massage. That could be plausible, although it seems unlikely that enough Clostebol would have been transferred. I imagine it would take a measurable amount of blood from the trainer to have entered Sinner's body. At the very least, this seems negligent and sloppy. That is how diseases are spread.

What I really don't understand is that this can happen in such a way that Sinner would test positive twice. I heard from some source that Clostebol can be used as a masking agent (to conceal the use of similar substances). Is there any merit to those claims, or is it just a case of unreasonable hate against Sinner?
 
J

jeroenn

Professional
JMR said:
The ITIA released a statement that acknowledged WADA's right to appeal but defended the process and made it clear that the ITIA is a little annoyed at WADA's stepping on their toes in this way.

There is no evidence this case that either contradicts the account of Sinner's exposure to the banned substance or that suggests real "doping" was occurring. We might refer to that as the more "objective" part of the case. WADA is appealing the more "subjective" part of the case: how much should Sinner be held personally responsible for what happened? The three members of the Independent Tribunal in Sinner's case agreed on the result; there was no dissent. So, effectively WADA is arguing that they were wrong because they weren't merciless enough. "We need more hard-ass arbiters to enforce our rules!"
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Let's wait and see how this pans out.They will have to rule within 3 months.

Although I honestly believe that even if the CAS would rule in Sinners favor, people would still believe he actively doped.

Also...Intereting influx of new users today.....
 
RSJfan

RSJfan

Semi-Pro
Incompetent and corrupt WADA has been harassing TTW fav Brooksby for years and is now targeting Raul’s fav Carrot.

giphy.gif


www.nytimes.com

Antidoping Agency Lost Track of Open Cases and Test Results Before Olympics

In a fraught meeting in May, top officials at the World Anti-Doping Agency were warned that a computer glitch might allow athletes accused of doping to compete at the Paris Games.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
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urban

Legend
I am not expert in doping cases. But there should be enough objective prove material on hand, like test results immediately before and after the two positives tests, which were just one week apart. The short period in a way actually does more confirm Sinners theory than speak against it. Reviewed should be further test results of Sinner in 2023 and 2024, say at the Austrialn Open, French Open or at Wimbledon. To be considered is the minimal percentage of the substance, which was way less than in the case of the Norwegian skier Torhaug, who used a cream to heal her lips, and defended Sinner lately. Neutral scentists could and should clear, if it is possible to be contaminated by body contact.
 
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Net Beast

New User
urban said:
I am not expertise in doping cases. But there should be enough objective prove material on hand, like test results immediately before and after the two positives tests, which were just one week apart. The short period in a way actually does more confirm Sinners theory than speak against it. Reviewed should be further test results of Sinner in 2023 and 2024, say at the Austrialn Open, French Open or at Wimbledon. To be considered is the minimal percentage of the substance, which was way less than in the case of the Norwegian skier Torhaug, who used a cream to heal her lips, and defended Sinner lately. Neutral scentists could and should clear, if it is possible to be contaminated by body contact.
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Yes, I just read about some of the details. The tests were only 8 days apart, so this makes Sinner's explanation plausible. I can't believe that his physio could be so negligent, though. It is breathtaking how clueless some people can be.
 
RSJfan

RSJfan

Semi-Pro
airchallenge2 said:
To me this is just a sad show. The only thing that really smells is that Sinner's lawyer used to work for ITIA before the incident.
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There is nothing remotely surprising or smelly about the fact that an attorney that used to work for the ITIA would now represent players defending themselves from ITIA charges. Where do you think former prosecutors of any kind often wind up. As defense lawyers.
 
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L

Lauren_Girl'

Hall of Fame
pizzadontdie said:
www.wada-ama.org

WADA appeals case of tennis player Jannik Sinner

The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) confirms that on Thursday 26 September, it lodged an appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in the case of Italian tennis player, Jannik Sinner, who was found by an independent tribunal of the International Tennis Integrity Agency (ITIA) to bear no...
www.wada-ama.org www.wada-ama.org
Click to expand...

I'm torn between annoyance and karma...
Annoyed that it's getting dragged out and dominating tennis debates on social medias even if he's supposedly innocent. If he is innocent then leave him alone and move on, period.
Karma because it's unfair the audience didn't hear about it until August, knowing the positive tests were on March. Sinner and his team should have made these informations public from the get-go and faced the music like everyone else. They were protected because he is famous and wealthy and that's not right. There should have been a trial and a temporary suspension (until he's declared guilty or innocent) like for others. So now it sounds like Sinner is getting exactly what he managed to avoid between March and August. But a 1 or 2 years ban would be ridiculous now that we know the whole story. This appeal won't amount to anything. But it'll fuel the haters and it's bad pub for tennis.
 
TheSlicer

TheSlicer

Hall of Fame
Honestly i dont think It Will change anything, they could appeal and they did, but what are they bringing to the table to change the juries mind?
 
Bride of Alcaraz

Bride of Alcaraz

New User
Lauren_Girl' said:
I'm torn between annoyance and karma...
Annoyed that it's getting dragged out and dominating tennis debates on social medias even if he's supposedly innocent. If he is innocent then leave him alone and move on, period.
Karma because it's unfair the audience didn't hear about it until August, knowing the positive tests were on March. Sinner and his team should have made these informations public from the get-go and faced the music like everyone else. They were protected because he is famous and wealthy and that's not right. There should have been a trial and a temporary suspension (until he's declared guilty or innocent) like for others. So now it sounds like Sinner is getting exactly what he managed to avoid between March and August. But a 1 or 2 years ban would be ridiculous now that we know the whole story. This appeal won't amount to anything. But it'll fuel the haters and it's bad pub for tennis.
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Nobody can prove that the physio's cream caused the positive reading.
Gasquet had a fun story too, and should have also been banned!
WADA needs to stop Sinner dead in his tracks, or everyone will be escaping bans with fancy stories...
 
GoatNo1

GoatNo1

Hall of Fame
TheSlicer said:
Honestly i dont think It Will change anything, they could appeal and they did, but what are they bringing to the table to change the juries mind?
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i dont think it is the same instance. sinner was announced free from tennis anti doping organisation and now it will be another one.
 
Rovesciarete

Rovesciarete

Hall of Fame
Lauren_Girl' said:
. Sinner and his team should have made these informations public from the get-go and faced the music like everyone else. They were protected because he is famous and wealthy and that's not right.
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Mostly agree but this part is sadly wrong, it was handled like in the Bortolotti case until now. Nobody heard about it and he could play on. No uproar for his successful because he was just a low-ranked player, no pity for Battaglino that the pyhsio ghosted him as he was unimportant...

Seems that Sinner is unfairly singled out compared to much less prominent players...
 
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J

jlouie

Rookie
GoatNo1 said:
i dont think it is the same instance. sinner was announced free from tennis anti doping organisation and now it will be another one.
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A precedent was already set before the Sinner case. This would set a new precedent that, I suppose a lot of players were clamoring for, a more rigid and strict policy and less case-by-case punishment. I don't know, it seems like a big L for players if WADA wins here.
 
Rovesciarete

Rovesciarete

Hall of Fame
jlouie said:
A precedent was already set before the Sinner case. This would set a new precedent that, I suppose a lot of players were clamoring for, a more rigid and strict policy and less case-by-case punishment. I don't know, it seems like a big L for players if WADA wins here.
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Self-confessed heavy drug user Kyrgios is basically an ex-player so he can flame on without having to fear a ban. Shapo never seemed the most reflective player.

Troubled WADA is now asserting itself and some players applaud. Turkeys and christmas…
 
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