WADA offered Sinner a deal, most likely to avoid getting their system blown up by CAS

[Rovesciarete]

In a statement released by his lawyers, Sinner said: "This case had been hanging over me for nearly a year and the process still had a long time to run with a decision maybe only at the end of the year.

"I have always accepted that I am responsible for my team and realise Wada's strict rules are an important protection for the sport I love. On that basis I have accepted Wada's offer to resolve these proceedings on the basis of a three-month sanction."

The "unique sets of facts of this case" have set alight a fuse running to a bomb under WADA, risking the exposure of their inner fallibility to both demand strict liability and using no threshold to protect the innocent against false accusations. By offering Sinner a resolution of a short ban, 1/4 of their requested minimum, and no impact on his ability to play the majors, they were able to avoid a potentially devastating CAS ruling.

Good risk management by WADA which might explain the long period until they appealed, working on their legal trade-offs. They gambled but the threat of ban up to two year despite "no benefit, no knowledge and no gain" enabled them to make their offer look a lot better. Would have intriguing to see that CAS rule but both sides chose to reduce said risk.

The body explained it accepts the three-time Grand Slam champion "did not intend to cheat", that the drug "did not provide any performance-enhancing benefit" and this happened "without his knowledge as the result of negligence of members of his entourage".

It added: "However, under the code and by virtue of Cas precedent, an athlete bears responsibility for the entourage's negligence. Based on the unique set of facts of this case, a three-month suspension is deemed to be an appropriate outcome."

Obviously anybody who calls Sinner a doper has all the relevant expert opinion, basic logic and the statements of both WADA and ITIA against him.

 

[jeroenn]

Yup. Time for the WADA et al. to get their stuff together.

 

[Sudacafan]

Once again, Sinner being called a doper is not the relevant thing. In one degree or another, I believe all players must be doing more or less the same thing and there is very little that can be done about it.
The tour is an eleven-month per year meat grinder which is very difficult to endure without some kind of help.

It’s the inequality of the punishment system what is horrendous.
Irrespective whether you call Sinner a doper, this specific case has done a lot of damage to the reputation of the institutions called to control the matter.

 

[chjtennis]

Whether he is innocent or not, one thing should be noted about him. This doping saga has dragged on for almost a years now but he maintained high level of tennis through it all. His mental strength is second to none.

 

[Sudacafan]

Whether he is innocent or not, one thing should be noted about him. This doping saga has dragged on for almost a years now but he maintained high level of tennis through it all. His mental strength is second to none.

Of course. Probably he’s also taking some stuff for mental strength.

 

[roysid]

Coming back at Rome is a good choice. Nothing like cheered up by italians after 3 month ban

 

[Rovesciarete]

Whether he is innocent or not, one thing should be noted about him. This doping saga has dragged on for almost a years now but he maintained high level of tennis through it all. His mental strength is second to none.

Amazing fortitude but also helped by the fact that he is clearly the strongest player on hardcourt and one of the best everywhere else.

 

[JMR]

The "unique sets of facts of this case" have set alight a fuse running to a bomb under WADA, risking the exposure of their inner fallibility to both demand strict liability and using no threshold to protect the innocent against false accusations. By offering Sinner a resolution of a short ban, 1/4 of their requested minimum, and no impact on his ability to play the majors, they were able to avoid a potentially devastating CAS ruling.

Yes, it's worth pointing this out. Sinner's cost-benefit analysis regarding the compromise effectuated by the settlement is pretty clear (except to the wilfully ignorant), but it's certainly true that WADA would have accepted some risks as well by pushing this matter all the way to a CAS decision. WADA did not settle for a three-month suspension due to "corruption" or some vague wish to be nice to Sinner. The decision was ultimately animated by a calculus of what was best for WADA.

 

[Rovesciarete]

WADA giving vibes of what Italians are accused to be doing according to stereotypes:

Can't risk your reputation by getting a ruling which shines further light on your internal fallacy so you threaten brutal punishment but also offer a fairly easy way out...

 

[Birrittene96]

Once again, Sinner being called a doper is not the relevant thing. In one degree or another, I believe all players must be doing more or less the same thing and there is very little that can be done about it.
The tour is an eleven-month per year meat grinder which is very difficult to endure without some kind of help.

It’s the inequality of the punishment system what is horrendous.
Irrespective whether you call Sinner a doper, this specific case has done a lot of damage to the reputation of the institutions called to control the matter.

This point has some merit. Even though every "doping" case is unique, it is likely that Sinner was treated better because he's the number 1 in the world. Him missing for a year or two would have caused an important economic damage for the ATP, TVs, the tennis movement as a whole.

Still, I hope that his case can be an example for the future. If future doping allegations will be treated like this one, the whole Sinner case will be seen in a less negative way.

 

[aus89]

Yes, it's worth pointing this out. Sinner's cost-benefit analysis regarding the compromise effectuated by the settlement is pretty clear (except to the wilfully ignorant), but it's certainly true that WADA would have accepted some risks as well by pushing this matter all the way to a CAS decision. WADA did not settle for a three-month suspension due to "corruption" or some vague wish to be nice to Sinner. The decision was ultimately animated by a calculus of what was best for WADA.

I mean we don't know what went into it - you probably have the ATP/ITF/Italian government/powerful agencies/Nike etc... lobbying on his behalf and exerting their influence, alongside his lawyers and the lighter case against him motivating a lighter sentence. So you know, it was a bit of what is best for WADA but also probably influenced by a lot of people/entities with a lot of power.

I think ultimately, they got their warning shot across the bow so to speak and get to look tough-ish, and tennis and his sponsors don't lose Sinner for very long and he gets a nice PR release that makes him look like the good guy.

 

[messiahrobins]

Coming back at Rome is a good choice. Nothing like cheered up by italians after 3 month ban

I doubt Djokovic plays Rome ever again....

 

[messiahrobins]

The "unique sets of facts of this case" have set alight a fuse running to a bomb under WADA, risking the exposure of their inner fallibility to both demand strict liability and using no threshold to protect the innocent against false accusations. By offering Sinner a resolution of a short ban, 1/4 of their requested minimum, and no impact on his ability to play the majors, they were able to avoid a potentially devastating CAS ruling.

Good risk management by WADA which might explain the long period until they appealed, working on their legal trade-offs. They gambled but the threat of ban up to two year despite "no benefit, no knowledge and no gain" enabled them to make their offer look a lot better. Would have intriguing to see that CAS rule but both sides chose to reduce said risk.



Obviously anybody who calls Sinner a doper has all the relevant expert opinion, basic logic and the statements of both WADA and ITIA against him.

Sinner basically bullied WADA into submission. They have been made to look spectacularly incompetent now as they would not have spent all that time effort and money to get him banned for 3 months at the most inconsequential part of the season as there are no slams.

 

[AM75]

WADA is done. Sinner destroyed it.

I hope from now on athletes can negotiate their punishment, as Meddy assumed today.

 

[RSJfan]

Once again, Sinner being called a doper is not the relevant thing. In one degree or another, I believe all players must be doing more or less the same thing and there is very little that can be done about it.
The tour is an eleven-month per year meat grinder which is very difficult to endure without some kind of help.

It’s the inequality of the punishment system what is horrendous.
Irrespective whether you call Sinner a doper, this specific case has done a lot of damage to the reputation of the institutions called to control the matter.

Do you think all TTW posters are doping? Or just Bionic Posters, bionic posting being a 12-month per year grind.

 

[AM75]

Do you think all TTW posters are doping? Or just Bionic Posters, bionic posting being a 12-month per year grind.

I dope but I have TUE for my ADHD medication.

 

[Bartelby]

WADA is not negotiating with the hoi polloi.

WADA is done. Sinner destroyed it.

I hope from now on athletes can negotiate their punishment, as Meddy assumed today.

 

[Bartelby]

The ITIA stuffed up by not giving Sinner a token ban as this would have allowed all players to escape penalty by blaming agents.

Yes, it's worth pointing this out. Sinner's cost-benefit analysis regarding the compromise effectuated by the settlement is pretty clear (except to the wilfully ignorant), but it's certainly true that WADA would have accepted some risks as well by pushing this matter all the way to a CAS decision. WADA did not settle for a three-month suspension due to "corruption" or some vague wish to be nice to Sinner. The decision was ultimately animated by a calculus of what was best for WADA.

 

[Bartelby]

Or his political strength is second to none.

Whether he is innocent or not, one thing should be noted about him. This doping saga has dragged on for almost a years now but he maintained high level of tennis through it all. His mental strength is second to none.

 

[Sudacafan]

Do you think all TTW posters are doping? Or just Bionic Posters, bionic posting being a 12-month per year grind.

You’ve just revealed an uncomfortable truth: I firmly believe that all dedicated TTW posters are doping. There’s simply no way we could endure human or bot interactions in these forums without the aid of advanced substances.

 

[RSJfan]

You’ve just revealed an uncomfortable truth: I firmly believe that all dedicated TTW posters are doping. There’s simply no way we could endure human or bot interactions in these forums without the aid of advanced substances.

You can’t churn out a tsunami of quality EV related posts without some artificial boost.

 

[Bartelby]

You can get high on carrot juice, which is saying something about a Juice Boost!

You can’t churn out a tsunami of quality EV related posts without some artificial boost.

 

[Winner Sinner]

The "unique sets of facts of this case" have set alight a fuse running to a bomb under WADA, risking the exposure of their inner fallibility to both demand strict liability and using no threshold to protect the innocent against false accusations. By offering Sinner a resolution of a short ban, 1/4 of their requested minimum, and no impact on his ability to play the majors, they were able to avoid a potentially devastating CAS ruling.

Good risk management by WADA which might explain the long period until they appealed, working on their legal trade-offs. They gambled but the threat of ban up to two year despite "no benefit, no knowledge and no gain" enabled them to make their offer look a lot better. Would have intriguing to see that CAS rule but both sides chose to reduce said risk.



Obviously anybody who calls Sinner a doper has all the relevant expert opinion, basic logic and the statements of both WADA and ITIA against him.

Is it possible that Sinner's lawyers (who, considering how much their client earns, I imagine are highly qualified) did not understand that Wada's pressure was a bluff?

In poker, if you realize that your opponent is bluffing, go and see the cards, perhaps by going straight all in.

 

[Rovesciarete]

Sinner basically bullied WADA into submission. They have been made to look spectacularly incompetent now as they would not have spent all that time effort and money to get him banned for 3 months at the most inconsequential part of the season as there are no slams.

They risked getting their system blown up and had to offer him a convenient deal. In the end they were lucky that CAS did not confer earlier in the year. Would have cost them considerable leverage.

 

[Shaj]

His suspension is a joke, How convenient man.. How convenient. I am suprised that they didnt give a suspension which is already over by now. 5 months after 2024 Mid, all the times he did not play. What if a South American was caught or a Eastern European or an Asian, they would have crucified him by now. Change of career only option.

 

[Rovesciarete]

His suspension is a joke, How convenient man.. How convenient. I am suprised that they didnt give a suspension which is already over by now. 5 months after 2024 Mid, all the times he did not play. What if a South American was caught or a Eastern European or an Asian, they would have crucified him by now. Change of career only option.

Before brining it all kinds of folly, accusations of racism or colonialism just read to understand the basic logic. Wada needed a convenient offer to convince Sinner to take it:

They risked getting their system blown up and had to offer him a convenient deal. In the end they were lucky that CAS did not confer earlier in the year. Would have cost them considerable leverage.

 

[Drighiz]

His suspension is a joke, How convenient man.. How convenient. I am suprised that they didnt give a suspension which is already over by now. 5 months after 2024 Mid, all the times he did not play. What if a South American was caught or a Eastern European or an Asian, they would have crucified him by now. Change of career only option.

It's not a suspension that was imposed on him, I think this is what people have to understand. He voluntarily took this offer instead of going through with CAS. Of course it's convenient

 

[jm1972]

Once again, Sinner being called a doper is not the relevant thing. In one degree or another, I believe all players must be doing more or less the same thing and there is very little that can be done about it.
The tour is an eleven-month per year meat grinder which is very difficult to endure without some kind of help.

It’s the inequality of the punishment system what is horrendous.
Irrespective whether you call Sinner a doper, this specific case has done a lot of damage to the reputation of the institutions called to control the matter.

Nailed it.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

The "unique sets of facts of this case" have set alight a fuse running to a bomb under WADA, risking the exposure of their inner fallibility to both demand strict liability and using no threshold to protect the innocent against false accusations

Do not understand what "using no threshold to protect the innocent against false accusations" means.

Also note that WADA code operates on the principles of strict liability. Testing positive equates to a doping violation. Even if it was non intentional as in the case of Iga taking a contaminated sleeping pill.

Would have preferred Sinner to take his case to CAS and blow up WADA.

 

[Bartelby]

I would have preferred seeing Sinner blown up by CAS, which is what would have happened.

Do not understand what "using no threshold to protect the innocent against false accusations" means.

Also note that WADA code operates on the principles of strict liability. Testing positive equates to a doping violation. Even if it was non intentional as in the case of Iga taking a contaminated sleeping pill.

Would have preferred Sinner to take his case to CAS and blow up WADA.

 

[RSJfan]

Do not understand what "using no threshold to protect the innocent against false accusations" means.

Also note that WADA code operates on the principles of strict liability. Testing positive equates to a doping violation. Even if it was non intentional as in the case of Iga taking a contaminated sleeping pill.

Would have preferred Sinner to take his case to CAS and blow up WADA.

I think he means you need to increase the threshold for amount of a substance before it’s deemed a positive test. Else you‘ll pick up a lot of ”inadvertent doping“ of very small amounts with no performance enhancing effect. Like your fav Carrot. I have to kick it to you whether this is sensible or will allow dopers to flourish.

 

[Rovesciarete]

Do not understand what "using no threshold to protect the innocent against false accusations" means.

Also note that WADA code operates on the principles of strict liability. Testing positive equates to a doping violation. Even if it was non intentional as in the case of Iga taking a contaminated sleeping pill.

Would have preferred Sinner to take his case to CAS and blow up WADA.

Wada was negligent in the last couple of years, as it did not timely react to the growing number of contamination cases around the world. Initially it might have been even an inner validation to add to their anti-doping credentials, but even they started, some time ago, a study group to understand the issue.

The contamination of Sinner and Swiantek forced their hand and it was already stated that 'unintentional doping' caused by the environment is a problem. We will see if they will act before 2027 to introduce threshold safeguards for the athletes they are policing.

 

[RSJfan]

…The contamination of Sinner and Swiantek forced their hand and it was already stated that 'unintentional doping' caused by the environment is a problem. We will see if they will act before 2027 to introduce threshold safeguards for the athletes they are policing.

They update the Code infrequently because it’s kinda complicated and requires input from a lot of groups and people and starts years before. Next edition is 2027. But the Code doesn’t contain the testing thresholds. That’s gotta be in the WADA International Standard for Laboratories and related technical documents, one of eight international standards that are part of WADA anti-doping program. These standards can be revised more frequently and on a different schedule.

 

[Bartelby]

Tennis should disaffiliate from WADA. Many American sports don't use it. And it just endlessly complicates commercial life with those pesky labs.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Wada was negligent in the last couple of years, as it did not timely react to the growing number of contamination cases around the world. Initially it might have been even an inner validation to add to their anti-doping credentials, but even they started, some time ago, a study group to understand the issue.

Therein lies the fundamental problem with bureaucracies. They seek to justify their own worthless existence rather than actually perform to serve a useful function.
Unfortunately, our favourite Bureaucrat Bart is enamored with such bloated useless corrupt bureaucracies.
Fortunately, these type of bloated useless corrupt bureaucracies are firmly in Elon's crosshairs.

Musk weighs a 'DOGE dividend' to send Americans checks using saved funds

Elon Musk expressed interest in an idea to create a "DOGE dividend" to give taxpayers a refund using funds saved amid the Department of Government Efficiency's work.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[Bartelby]

The Church is a bureaucracy. The army is a bureaucracy. All modern governments are run by rule-bound bureaucracies governed by law.

And then we have lawless countries run by dictators. WADA's problem is not that it is a bureaucracy. It is that it is behaving improperly.

Therein lies the fundamental problem with bureaucracies. They seek to justify their own worthless existence rather than actually perform to serve a useful function.
Unfortunately, our favourite Bureaucrat Bart is enamored with such bloated useless corrupt bureaucracies.
Fortunately, these type of bloated useless corrupt bureaucracies are firmly in Elon's crosshairs.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

The Church is a bureaucracy. The army is a bureaucracy. All modern governments are run by rule-bound bureaucracies governed by law.
And then we have lawless countries run by dictators. WADA's problem is not that it is a bureaucracy. It is that it is behaving improperly.

WADA is both a bureaucracy and corrupt.
WADA is a bureaucracy that seeks to justify their existence as clearly evidenced by its establishment of ridiculously low threshold standards.
And instead of quickly implementing these standards to protect players from environmental/third person contamination this slow-moving bureaucracy is implementing it for 2027.

If these proposed 2027 WADA standards were applied to Sinner today he receives 0 months.

 

[Bartelby]

You have now defended the WADA bureaucracy by judging Sinner using bureaucratic standards that are only proposed. What a hypocrite you are!

WADA is both a bureaucracy and corrupt.
WADA is a bureaucracy that seeks to justify their existence as clearly evidenced by its establishment of ridiculously low threshold standards.
And instead of quickly implementing these standards to protect players from environmental/third person contamination this slow-moving bureaucracy is implementing it for 2027.

If these proposed 2027 WADA standards were applied to Sinner today he receives 0 months.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

You have now defended the WADA bureaucracy by judging Sinner using bureaucratic standards that are only proposed. What a hypocrite you are!

You are free to defend this slow-moving bureaucracy moving at a snail's pace to implement standards years down the road instead of making immediate changes.
But we are having none of it!

 

[RSJfan]

WADA is both a bureaucracy and corrupt.
WADA is a bureaucracy that seeks to justify their existence as clearly evidenced by its establishment of ridiculously low threshold standards.
And instead of quickly implementing these standards to protect players from environmental/third person contamination this slow-moving bureaucracy is implementing it for 2027.

If these proposed 2027 WADA standards were applied to Sinner today he receives 0 months.

Your fav CCP is both a bureaucracy and corrupt.

You should take your win with your fav Carrot (or relative win if you prefer because you wanted the bold exciting move) like a gentleman and not kick WADA while it is down. Recall your state when your fav Egg walked out of AO because he was annoyed to lose the first set. No one piled on because it would be ungentlemanly.

As I mentioned above things like testing thresholds are not part of the Code revision and may run on a different track.

 

[Sudacafan]

CCCP < / = / > CCP ?

 

[Bartelby]

It's officially the CPC or Communist Party of China.

CCCP < / = / > CCP ?

 

[Sudacafan]

It's officially the CPC or Communist Party of China.

OK. Somebody here needs to edit hundreds of posts.

 

[RSJfan]

CCCP < / = / > CCP ?

Raul’s favs:

EVs > CCP > Egg > Carrot > CCCP

 

[Bartelby]

It makes a difference as people slide into talking about Chinese communism as a "society" when there is no such thing.

There is, however, a Communist Party in China.

OK. Somebody here needs to edit hundreds of posts.

 

[Sudacafan]

Raul’s favs:

EVs > CCP > Egg > Carrot > CCCP

EV is one of the most successful threads in modern forums history.

 

[RSJfan]

EV is one of the most successful threads in modern forums history.

Yeh, it’s pretty great. And in no small part due to Raul. But not a single post should be certified.

 

[Sudacafan]

Yeh, it’s pretty great. But not a single post should be certified.

No need at all to do that. The thread would lose some of its charm.

 

[RSJfan]

You are free to defend this slow-moving bureaucracy moving at a snail's pace to implement standards years down the road instead of making immediate changes.
But we are having none of it!

They stole your Carrots IW points and money. One of the scientific experts involved in the case went out of his way to let the tennis tribunal know that the substance amounts could have no performance enhancing effects. So why take his points and money. Will we see more inadvertent micro dose cases of top players at large prize money events to steal their money. It is not cheap for Carrot to have a large team. He probably barely breaks even after expenses. Give the kid his prize money back!

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

It makes a difference as people slide into talking about Chinese communism as a "society" when there is no such thing.

There is, however, a Communist Party in China.

Our favourite Bart fails to mention that it is an authoritarian one-party state led by the CPC.
There are only a handful of one-party states in the world. The rest of the world prefers freedom of choice.