Occam's razor.
Wada says Sinner case 'million miles away from doping'
- Thread starter Turning Pro
- Start date
You know they were not doing terribly with this until like the last 5 years. Since then they are like a dog chasing their tails.
Yet the member(s) wasn't fired until the news broke out, and the member(s) conveniently starts working for his friend Matteo.
Hahahaha. Stellar argument.
He unlike every other tennis player in the top 100 is serving a ban for a banned substance.
Ergo he is a doper, or at least much more of a doper than everyone else. Comparatively, he meets the criteria of doper by a million times more than the other players in the top 100.
Slightly less stellar than the concocted story from the Sinner coterie, agreed. So better @Kralingen
Lleytonstation
Bionic Poster
Why are we all RE-freaking out? I dont get it? He had NO suspension, then potential, and now an actual suspension.
Why is everyone acting like this is new?
Im saying its not innocent or guilty, its not black or white. What if you had a very weak password that was easy to hack? What if you had it written down somewhere and didnt hide it properly? Was some of the responsibility yours?
In Sinners case its about to which degree he is to be held responsible for his physios mistake? It shouldt have happened, so imo the team (and Sinner) has some responsibility here. But how much? Imo 3 months sounds fair, because its not a serious mistake from Sinners side.
To be a doper you have to use a banned substance, according to your dictionary definition. He didn’t use a banned substance; he was contaminated with it. Therefore, he is not a doper even according to your dictionary definition.
Same way you're re-re-freaking about this re-freaking.
Chill we're all just jobless here at TTW. This is more pressing than big 3 debates anyway.
I agree, Sinner and his team has some responsibility! At the same time, its not a severe mistake by Sinner imo. 3 months sounds fair to me.
The most severe mistake is the explanation he gave. Not creative enough, poor script.
That’s just the story he used. The only factual elements of this case are that he tested positive and was banned. The rest is spin.
Lleytonstation
Bionic Poster
Did I put my TTW clown face on? Yes. But nothing is more important than a farm animal debate that is cooked into a doping debate.
Relevant I think anyway because Sinner is destined to be a farm animal. Exemplary game.
Lleytonstation
Bionic Poster
Crazy... the guy who looks like he is doping isnt, and the other gets caught doping. The guy everyone assumed was going to take the tour by storm is struggling while the other guy is dominating.
All involved parties accepted it, i have no way of knowing the truth. Of course you are free to believe what you want.
Once he fully developed the rapidly developing forecourt game, it's over for the tour. A doped up goat is destined to be untouchable.
Lleytonstation
Bionic Poster
All farm animals have doped. That I 100% believe.
We all are free to believe what we want. You may choose to believe in the most bogus tennis story, i haven't chosen to. That's okay.
big ted
Legend
"They're envious" - After Jannik Sinner's doping row, lower-ranked Bortolotti who too didn't face suspension hits out at Nick Kyrgios, Denis Shapovalov
Marco Bortolotti has come out in support of Jannik Sinner by firing back at Nick Kyrgios and Denis Shapovalov who had commented on the World No.
www.sportskeeda.com
Proof of no favoritism… But people like conspiracies
flyneurologist
New User
This is already answered by WADA and reiterated many times. Athletes have to be responsible for what goes into their body. That is a strict liability rule.
But they'd do better than Sinner with excuses had they been hypothetically caught I'm sure.
Gazelle
G.O.A.T.
As a Canadian I can confirm Dick Pound is a clown. He dismissed Alex Baumann (a Canadian) admiting and bragging in press conferences about doping when he won his 2 Los Anglees Olympic golds, but does a witchhunt to try and strip medals of Eastern Europeans from 50 years ago, some who are even now dead. He and his team allow Norwegian cross country skiiers and biathletes to dope more than even the East German female athletes in the 70s and 80s and get away with it, with the excuse the entire women (and even mens) team have "asthma", while having stripped and condemmed all Soviets who didn't dope nearly as much as the Norwegians. No doubt Norway is paying some good money to Pound and his team of morons under the table for that one. He and his team are so incompetent they enlisted Victor Conte, one of the former leading doping supplier to help WADA get better at doing their job. So not surprised.
As I said many times I do believe in every sport nearly everyone who reaches the international level, even with with poor results, is doping. But if you are going to pretent to exist for something (WADA) atleast give some impression of knowing how to do your job and doing it evenly and fairly.
Here is the asthmatic 15 time Olympic medalists allowed to legally dope every horse pill under the sun by Pound and his team Marit Bjoergen:
Yes that is a cross country skiier, the holder of a winter record 15 Olympic medals, not a World Record female weightlifter or wrestler, as I am sure you were all thinking when seeing the photos. Never once failed a doping test (atleast publicly) in her career, due to supposably having "asthma". The entire Norwegian cross country, nordic combined, ski jumping, and biathlon teams have asthma by the way, a coincidence that has about a 1 and billion chance of being real.
Same in cycling, they all have asthma nowadays. Those poor athletes having to overcome these conditions.
pierceforehands
Professional
Yes and being from certain countries, either Canadian (Pound's country), the country of some other high ranking WADA officials, or a country that forks over the big bribe money (NORWAY, NORWAY, NORWAY, Great Britian, US and France some others) you get away with doping, or being allowed to take a bunch of special drugs for your asthma. While if you are say a Russian if you even look at an illegal substance, you are done.
As i said, i have know way of knowing. I accept the outcome.
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
Interesting take. I hope it pans out
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
Ruud's defense of Sinner might make a little more sense now...
Saying it's "a million miles away" from doping doesn't seem that helpful. Providing context - he didn't, per the available evidence, intend to take clostebol but was contaminated by his idiot team - is one thing, but obviously this is at least doping-adjacent or he wouldn't be banned in the first place. WADA is kind of floundering here, I think, not sure how to appease both those who think Sinner shouldn't have been banned at all and those who think the whole think reeks of favoritism.
Coincidentally, players who have physical disadvantages or weaknesses are more likely to dope in order to counterbalance their weaknesses than players to whom genetics have been more favourable. In other words, why would you dope if you are a natural born athlete?
Lleytonstation
Bionic Poster
To get even better I would suppose.
The increased footspeed from Sinner does look dodgy considering the circumstances.
Certainly, everyone could dope, but my point is that someone who is a lesser athlete is more likely to dope.
And his much improved stamina and endurance.
Lleytonstation
Bionic Poster
I just want everyone to know that I was right when I called him propaganda all those years ago.
I am also right that he is better than Carlos the Shepherd. But now with the doping I am right about both.
Lleytonstation
Bionic Poster
Djoker did the same thing...
His case has always been highly suspicious but he was never caught, so we can only speculate.
flyneurologist
New User
Are we finally talking science now ? I have some expertise in this. Full disclosure: PGY-2 medical resident here.
Love a science enthusiast: Found a good case study. (PMC11668582)
Discussion section is helpful: “The transdermal application of clostebol acetate can produce detectable amounts of metabolites in urine, even after a single exposure. Depending on the protocols, the main clostebol metabolite (4-chloro-androst-4-en-3α-ol-17-one, M1) was found to be detectable up to 30–40 ng/ml (at peak concentration) for more than 10 days. In other studies, the transfer of clostebol from one subject to another occurred during hand shaking or sexual intercourse.”
Citations 19-20.
19.Gessner L, Thevis M, Rothschild MA, Jübner M. Detectability of oxandrolone, metandienone, clostebol and dehydrochloromethyltestosterone in urine after transdermal application. Drug Test Anal. (2022) 14(10):1744–61. 10.1002/dta.3355 [DOI] [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
20.Kintz P, Gheddar L. Acétate de clostébol (Trofodermin®): vérification du passage transdermique d’un anabolisant souvent impliqué dans les affaires de dopage. Toxicol Anal Clin. (2024) 36(4):317–22. 10.1016/j.toxac.2024.10.001
WADA statement in 2020:
www.wada-ama.org
Love a science enthusiast: Found a good case study. (PMC11668582)
Discussion section is helpful: “The transdermal application of clostebol acetate can produce detectable amounts of metabolites in urine, even after a single exposure. Depending on the protocols, the main clostebol metabolite (4-chloro-androst-4-en-3α-ol-17-one, M1) was found to be detectable up to 30–40 ng/ml (at peak concentration) for more than 10 days. In other studies, the transfer of clostebol from one subject to another occurred during hand shaking or sexual intercourse.”
Citations 19-20.
19.Gessner L, Thevis M, Rothschild MA, Jübner M. Detectability of oxandrolone, metandienone, clostebol and dehydrochloromethyltestosterone in urine after transdermal application. Drug Test Anal. (2022) 14(10):1744–61. 10.1002/dta.3355 [DOI] [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
20.Kintz P, Gheddar L. Acétate de clostébol (Trofodermin®): vérification du passage transdermique d’un anabolisant souvent impliqué dans les affaires de dopage. Toxicol Anal Clin. (2024) 36(4):317–22. 10.1016/j.toxac.2024.10.001
WADA statement in 2020:
Detection of clostebol in sports: accidental doping?
You just wait until Carlos finishes growing his brain and stops being a complete mug.
Lleytonstation
Bionic Poster
lol, we all have been waiting for a long time.
They cancelled the pursuit when they saw million dollars in their bank account.
pierceforehands
Professional
Very true. I don't know if Ruud dopes or not, but if he ever wanted to take everything under the sun to try and get over his slam finals hump he could just say he has asthma like everyone from Norway has. Especialy now that his results are declining and he isn't even coming close to finals losses anymore, it might be time to get a bad case of asthma that can only be solved by a combination of EPO, HGH, meldonium, stanozolol, nandrolone, and a couple others, with an especialy high dosage of those first two. He is Norwegian and probably has asthma, so it is ok.
flyneurologist
New User
Is this satire? Because I laughed
Yeah, this is what I thought too, Sinner last year performance improvement on his footwork caught my attention, especially with this doping scandal, all defenders kept saying that the amount found was so little and had no effect on Sinner, I am very skeptical on this argument.
flyneurologist
New User
what is the scientific basis of your skepticism ? Like I am genuinely perplexed what is hard in the science to understand
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