WADA website hacked, Serena & Venus were allowed to use prohibited substances

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Deleted member 688153

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They know about Biles now and I don't see a lynch mob forming!
There is no reason for the public to be concerned with tests that are technically "positive", but don't count because of a valid TUE.

Same as how cyclists generally don't make their bio passports public - because some YouTuber will slide on his Woolworths aluminium foil headwear and point to some meaningless number in the file and claim that Froome has been taking plutonium.
 

Vanhool

Hall of Fame
It's all about the same leak and the same topic, so it is pedantic to separate these things out.
No it's not pedantic and Lewis was not in the leak. Your long rants are boring and tangential and will eventually get this thread moved to the vortex. Whatver. Nothing new is being added to this thread a this point anyway.
 
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Deleted member 688153

Guest
We didn't know Lewis was a doper at the time.
No, we didn't.
Everything should be kept on file and I support keeping samples and retesting down the track too.
But making anything other than confirmed violations public is unnecessary and just encourages crazies and the unwashed to pass judgement over nothing.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
You are the one trying to get this thread removed with your specious claims.

There is the one leak and all three are examples quoted in that leak, but we are concentrating on the tennis players concerned for the most part even if the Biles case is the more interesting.

No it's not. Your long rants are boring and tangential and will eventually get this thread moved to the vortex. Whatver. Nothing new is being added to this thread a this point anyway.
 
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Deleted member 688153

Guest
I see you're a strong believer in the Platonic position that the masses are too stupid to be exposed to anything approximating the truth - you are indeed a good Young Liberal.
Sigh. It's called maintaining the reputation of the sport and of honest, hardworking individual athletes, and is hardly dishonest as no violations have occurred.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
With the Lewis case, we could have been told he tested positive three times and was given an exemption at the time.

We unwashed ones would have made up our own minds that he was cheating and we would have been right.

No, we didn't.
Everything should be kept on file and I support keeping samples and retesting down the track too.
But making anything other than confirmed violations public is unnecessary and just encourages crazies and the unwashed to pass judgement over nothing.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you have no idea nor care what prednisone is used for; and why it's NOT the drug of choice among cheater.

I take the same drug, lol. It's a steroid, but it is certainly not performance enhancing. I was proscribed it for a skin-related severe allergic reaction I developed last year (doctors still don't know what it was)

DBqPgiu.jpg

corticosteroids, treate autoimmune diseases like lupus, psoriasis,rheumatological arthritis

I can't believe this thread is still going :D lol. I take prednisone 20's.
 
D

Deleted member 688153

Guest
With the Lewis case, we could have been told he tested positive three times and was given an exemption at the time.

We unwashed ones would have made up our own minds that he was cheating and we would have been right.
You should have to have an exemption beforehand. No retroactive exemptions.

And yes, people would have said he was cheating, and would have happened to be right. I'm sure you're aware of how broken clocks behave.
The problem with the court of public opinion and conspiracy wingnuts is precisely that they have a near 100% guilty verdict rate.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Thread title is clickbait--it suggests that the Williams Sisters doped and got away with it, while the actual information says that they properly took medication for illnesses / conditions that were disclosed to WADA. Until it is proven that the illnesses that the Williams Sisters allegedly suffered from were fabrications made in order to have access to otherwise-banned substances, there is no reason to start calling anyone names. Those who disagree ought to consider whether they have pre-conceived prejudices they were looking to have enforce with information that only tangentially meet their needs. That would be disingenuous.

What illnesses they had / have is not 100% known, so we should not be making assumptions that they are abusing the TUE system for unfair performance enhancement. Innocent until proven guilty, folks. It doesn't matter how convenient it is that 60% of Olympic athletes seem to have asthma or ADHD--what illnesses other athletes suffer from has zero effect on what the Williams Sisters have. It would be like accusing me of not following my diet plan because I ate a slice of cake on my cheat day, just because someone else on a diet deliberately didn't record the 24" pizza they weren't supposed to have.

Those who suggest that this is some sort of bias against Sharapova need to take their heads out of their backsides and realise the situation here is different. Sharapova kept her alleged condition under wraps and did not take a "legal" route as the Williams Sisters did. If Sharapova had gone the correct route, then she in all likelihood would have been able to take meldonium via TUE. She didn't however, then she got caught, then banned. But what what happened to Sharapova is specific to Sharapova, and her negligence / alleged dishonesty should not be used to judge the Williams Sisters.
 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The drugs the Americans took are real PEDs, whereas Meldonium was just a political trap to besmirch the reputation of Russia.

Thread title is clickbait--it suggests that the Williams Sisters doped and got away with it, while the actual information says that they properly took medication for illnesses / conditions that were disclosed to WADA. Until it is proven that the illnesses that the Williams Sisters allegedly suffered from were fabrications made in order to have access to otherwise-banned substances, there is no reason to start calling anyone names. Those who disagree ought to consider whether they have pre-conceived prejudices they were looking to have enforce with information that only tangentially meet their needs. That would be disingenuous.

What illnesses they had / have is not 100% known, so we should not be making assumptions that they are abusing the TUE system for unfair performance enhancement. Innocent until proven guilty, folks. It doesn't matter how convenient it is that 60% of Olympic athletes seem to have asthma or ADHD--what illnesses other athletes suffer from has zero effect on what the Williams Sisters have. It would be like accusing me of not following my diet plan because I ate a slice of cake on my cheat day, just because someone else on a diet deliberately didn't record the 24" pizza they weren't supposed to have.

Those who suggest that this is some sort of bias against Sharapova need to take their heads out of their backsides and realise the situation here is different. Sharapova kept her alleged condition under wraps and did not take a "legal" route as the Williams Sisters did. If Sharapova had gone the correct route, then she in all likelihood would have been able to take meldonium via TUE. She didn't however, then she got caught, then banned. But what what happened to Sharapova is specific to Sharapova, and her negligence / alleged dishonesty should not be used to judge the Williams Sisters.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
The drugs the Americans took are real PEDs, whereas Meldonium was just a political trap to besmirch the reputation of Russia.
Repeating yourself does not change the fact that the Williams Sisters disclosed their conditions and got permission to take the drugs, while Sharapova did not and got caught.

Also, from the light reading I've done so far, it appears that the drugs that the Williams Sisters took are not the drugs of choice for dopers anyway--which appears to be the argument you are making for Sharapova, regardless of the fact that Armstrong took the same drugs that Serena took, or the fact that an extraordinary number of Russian athletes took meldonium.
 
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Deleted member 688153

Guest
What's for dinner? :eek:
Haven't thought that far ahead yet. :D This is lunch though.

It's pouring with rain so I don't want to go out and buy meat - which is why it's vegetarian risotto for lunch.
I'll probably do veggie lasagne, which worked really well last time. :)
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The Williams sisters took PEDs that would otherwise be illegal under circumstances that are lacking in transparency. Why would anyone trust national federations, international sporting bodies, and WADA to do the right thing?
 
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Deleted member 688153

Guest
I sure hope you have a permission slip for that. And make sure you keep the copy offline ;)
I've got a TUE (Tastiness Use Exemption) for all types of edible mushrooms.
Hopefully Dick Pound doesn't pound my door down. :D
 
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Deleted member 688153

Guest
The Williams sisters took PEDs that would otherwise be illegal under circumstances that are lacking in transparency. Why would anyone trust national federations, international sporting bodies, and WADA to do the right thing?
Pretty sure those clear-as-day TUE documents say all that's needed to be said.
If they'd released this scoop without the documents, it would actually be more suspicious I'd say.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
I didn't say it was, but there is now a case for an independent judicial review of how these three came to get an exemption and whether everything was done legally and according to best practice.

I don't disagree that WADA could be more transparent.

However, a lack of transparency is not proof that the Williams Sisters abused the TUE system to dope legally.
 
D

Deleted member 688153

Guest
I didn't say it was, but there is now a case for an independent judicial review of how these three came to get an exemption and whether everything was done legally and according to best practice.
Thank god for Russian hackers.
Administering justice on an encrypted server near you!
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Carl Lewis got a retrospective exemption for doping from his own federation and then went on to win gold in Seoul and even though he is a confessed drug cheat he has not been stripped of any titles.

Exemptions offer an interesting possibility for abuse.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
I didn't say it was, but there is now a case for an independent judicial review of how these three came to get an exemption and whether everything was done legally and according to best practice.
Okay, I can agree with that. That would be fair, if only to iron out any doubts at the very least. We need to have our faith in sporting authorities restored, or our cynicism validated. Some sort of confirmation, either way.

It's just that you sound as if you're certain that the Williams Sisters are doping, yet it was Sharapova got busted for a placebo.

You are welcome to argue that Sharapova's treatment was unfair all you want based on the nature of meldonium and the not-so-subtle tensions between the USA and Russia, but her situation shouldn't be used to condemn Serena and Venus, that's what I'm saying.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
I'm certain Sharapova was busted for a placebo, but I have no conclusion as to whether the Williams sisters exemption was fair and reasonable.

All I'm arguing at the moment is that TUEs should be made public as and when they are issued.

The Biles exemption is, by her own admission, for ADHD - an over-diagnosed condition by all reports. This does not mean, of course, that she is not a legitimate sufferer.

Okay, I can agree with that. That would be fair, if only to iron out any doubts at the very least. We need to have our faith in sporting authorities restored, or our cynicism validated. Some sort of confirmation, either way.

It's just that you sound as if you're certain that the Williams Sisters are doping, yet it was Sharapova got busted for a placebo.

You are welcome to argue that Sharapova's treatment was unfair all you want based on the nature of meldonium and the not-so-subtle tensions between the USA and Russia, but her situation shouldn't be used to condemn Serena and Venus, that's what I'm saying.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
I'm certain Sharapova was busted for a placebo, but I have no conclusion as to whether the Williams sisters exemption was fair and reasonable.

All I'm arguing at the moment is that TUEs should be made public as and when they are issued.

The Biles exemption is, by her own admission, for ADHD - an over-diagnosed condition by all reports.
Yeah...now that it's public knowledge that the Williams Sisters applied for a TUE to use otherwise-banned substances, I agree that it would be in the public interest to have all relevant information made public. Whether they do though...I doubt it.

I also agree that it's at the very least a little strange that so many athletes have ADHD, when focus is essential to excelling at any sport.

Unless we find proof that athletic prowess is a symptom of ADHD, it's quite likely that at least a handful of athletes are using the system as a loophole.
 

dimbmw

Rookie
How can Sharapova get a TUE on a drug that is not FDA approved in US? No licensed US doctor can suggest to use it, right?
 

Vanhool

Hall of Fame
Yeah...now that it's public knowledge that the Williams Sisters applied for a TUE to use otherwise-banned substances, I agree that it would be in the public interest to have all relevant information made public. Whether they do though...I doubt it.

I also agree that it's at the very least a little strange that so many athletes have ADHD, when focus is essential to excelling at any sport.

Unless we find proof that athletic prowess is a symptom of ADHD, it's quite likely that at least a handful of athletes are using the system as a loophole.
If Serena issued a full statement of why she used prednisone, TTW trolls would accuse her of making excuses for her ****ty 2014.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
That's an interesting question. It is however legal and over the counter in some countries, so you'd provide evidence for medical need on that basis.

The counter would be that it has no therapeutic value and the reality is that Meldonium is a non-starter as a PED so it really has the status of candy.

How can Sharapova get a TUE on a drug that is not FDA approved in US? No licensed US doctor can suggest to use it, right?
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
If Serena issued a full statement of why she used prednisone, TTW trolls would accuse her of making excuses for her ****ty 2014.
TTW troglodytes will always be just that--troglodytes.

Doesn't matter what proof there is, because they will always formulate their conclusions first based on their biases (race, sexual attractiveness, delusional identification of themselves in a pro's playing style, etc), and then cherry pick information (that they falsely cite as "proof") that supports their agenda. They are the anti-vaxxers and healing-through-prayer nutjobs of these boards. Ignore them until you feel the need to put them in their place from time to time.

It's the rest of us posters with more than two brain cells to rub together that will find the information useful, and it's what those posters think that matters.
 
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dimbmw

Rookie
That's an interesting question. It is however legal and over the counter in some countries, so you'd provide evidence for medical need on that basis.

The counter would be that it has no therapeutic value and the reality is that Meldonium is a non-starter as a PED so it really has the status of candy.


I don't know whether WADA would have accepted an opinion of a Russian or Latvian doctor as valid and good enough to grant Maria a TUE to use the meldronate.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
You guys are terribly naive. It amazes me that nearly no one realizes the problem with TUE. There is a huge grey area there and athletes can easily buy doctors to diagnose a fake injury requiring some TUE to use banned PEDs. It is actually a very smart way to dope "legally".

One very telling exemple: Salbutamol, a banned substance, was originally designed to treat asthma and is not banned if the athlete claims a medical exemption for asthmatic conditions. Well, guess what? 20% of US male athletes who competed in the 1996 OG were "treated for asthma". :rolleyes: In some sports such as cross country skiing during some edition of the Winter OG, the percentage of athletes pretending to suffer from asthma was as high as 60%. :rolleyes:

LOL

Just mega-LOL

I remember reading a year back about the Alberto Salazar scandal. It was alleged by one of his athletes (praps Kara Goucher) that she/they were asked to get TUE's for various drugs. IIRC some of them had got TUE's for medications for conditions they did not have. Possibly asthma was one of them.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
That's a bit racist. Russia can do what Elon Musk can't - send rockets into orbit!

I don't know whether WADA would have accepted an opinion of a Russian or Latvian doctor as valid and good enough to grant Maria a TUE to use the meldronate.
 

Tennease

Legend
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/20...-and-venus-williams-and-simone-biles-given-d/

So, Simone Biles has ADHD "illness" and WADA allowed her to take drug for it.

Well, I have a tiredness disease, can I have EPO please.

I have a choker disease on match point, can I have exemption for it too and have what Masha had?

Doping rules is a joke. Just be black on white, WADA. Athletes MUST NOT take any drugs and creepy substance whatsoever. They all should just be allowed to eat white bread and water. All will be equal. Developing countries will have more gold medallists. Nowadays it is mostly only the rich and corrupted can win.
 

darrinbaker00

Professional
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/20...-and-venus-williams-and-simone-biles-given-d/

So, Simone Biles has ADHD "illness" and WADA allowed her to take drug for it.

Well, I have a tiredness disease, can I have EPO please.

I have a choker disease on match point, can I have exemption for it too and have what Masha had?

Doping rules is a joke. Just be black on white, WADA. Athletes MUST NOT take any drugs and creepy substance whatsoever. They all should just be allowed to eat white bread and water. All will be equal. Developing countries will have more gold medallists. Nowadays it is mostly only the rich and corrupted can win.
Feel better now?
 
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