Walking/Running Shoe vs Tennis Shoe

[Chas Tennis]

The "last" of a shoe is a shape of wood or plastic that reflects the shape of the foot. A shoe maker may use a last to make a shoe.

I have prominent 5th Metatarsals with worse pain being caused at the right 5th Metatarsal, end nearest the ankle - by a corn. I am concerned about new shoes especially about how the curvature of the shoe "last" used to manufacture the shoe might be too curved for my straight feet. I never heard of a "last" before.

Fit Philosophy — Find the shoe with your proper fit at Running Niche in St. Louis, MO — Running Niche

Running Niche is a locally owned running and walking retail store in the Grove neighborhood of Saint Louis, MO. Specialty footwear brands Brooks, On, Hoka, Newton, 361, Altra, Mizuno, Hoka One One and more. Located near Wash U, Forest Park, and Tower Grove Park. If you have been wondering where the

runningniche.com

"FIT IMPORTANCE:

Once foot type has been established, assessing proper fit is the next critical element. Running shoes are made on a “last” which is a shape that dictates the dimensions of the heel, midfoot or “waist” of the shoe, ball girth and toe box among other key measurements.

Running shoe lasts are commonly made as straight, semi-curved and curved. Each of these last types aligns with a specific foot type: Straight/Over Pronation, Semi-Curved/Neutral and Curved/Supination. Each brand has their unique dimensions for their last’s assortment, which is why fit between brands can be quite different, even within styles within a brand. A clear understanding of the last type each shoe is made on is critical to the proper fit process. This only comes from experience working with many runners on our store floor."


My shoes are one possible cause. Did the shoe last bend my 5th M ? I have no idea what to look for in a shoe for this issue. Seeing a pediatrist. .....................

If you have learned anything about the following please post -
Curved feet
Straight feet
"lasts" for curved feet
"lasts" for straight feet
Fitting shoes to prevent corns
Shoe manufacturers that use lasts for straight feet
Shoe manufacturers that use lasts for curved feet.
Any information on the 5th Metatarsal (end near ankle) & shoes
For corns.

I found that there is a wooden shoe stretcher where a metal curved shape can be inserted to stretch spots in the shoe, like the 5th M. I intend to try this at the 5th Metatarsal, near my ankle.

Earlier thread.

I have had a problem with a corn that caused pain on a prominent bone (5th Metatarsal) that sticks out of the side of my foot. The corn was removed.

I now have a Walking/Running New Balance shoe, model 990, that I intend to be used for tennis. It has a 'last' to match my straight foot. It is a "Walking/Running" shoe.

What is the difference in a W/R shoe vs a tennis shoe? I would also like some creditable technical references comparing tennis shoes vs walking/running shoes.

I also just met a new member of our club that simply cuts out holes on the sides of his shoes for some other foot injuries. He says that his shoes function well with some other modifications for his problems. He advised against using walking/running shoes for tennis.

 

[papado]

I don't have any literature handy, but I'm sure others can pull up technical details as to why walking/running shoes are not a smart idea for a sport like tennis.

Tennis shoes are designed to deal with aggressive cuts and changes in direction and the starting/stopping that accompanies them. Lateral movement is a big part of the sport and you'll notice tennis shoes are designed with that stability in mind as well. Walking/running is a singular plane of movement-->forward. There is no need for the shoes to protect the wearer or feet from changes in direction, aggressive start/stop, or lateral movements. The cushioned and thick midsoles on those shoes have no firmness to support changes in directions and protect your feet/ankles.

I'll let others with more scientific details speak, but not sure how one could earnestly believe that walking shoes and tennis shoes are built interchangeably. I understand your personal concerns as foot problems are very difficult and effect every aspect of life so you certainly don't want to deviate from something which does not exacerbate or contribute to your discomfort.

 

[Fintft]

I don't have any literature handy, but I'm sure others can pull up technical details as to why walking/running shoes are not a smart idea for a sport like tennis.

Tennis shoes are designed to deal with aggressive cuts and changes in direction and the starting/stopping that accompanies them. Lateral movement is a big part of the sport and you'll notice tennis shoes are designed with that stability in mind as well. Walking/running is a singular plane of movement-->forward. There is no need for the shoes to protect the wearer or feet from changes in direction, aggressive start/stop, or lateral movements. The cushioned and thick midsoles on those shoes have no firmness to support changes in directions and protect your feet/ankles.

I'll let others with more scientific details speak, but not sure how one could earnestly believe that walking shoes and tennis shoes are built interchangeably. I understand your personal concerns as foot problems are very difficult and effect every aspect of life so you certainly don't want to deviate from something which does not exacerbate or contribute to your discomfort.

Agreed.

I used to walk in run of the mill tennis shoes, but now I walk in running shoes, not the other way around.

 

[BenC]

I run in Brooks Ghost running shoes that have low lateral stability and I would absolutely not play tennis in those.

However, I do walk my dogs in New Balance cross trainers (608, 623) and those are stable enough that I could probably use them for tennis in an absolute emergency. As long as you know what you're getting into ...

 

[Sardines]

Will your club allow running outsoles? My clubs forbid it, and I haven't seen too many that accept. Many runners are marking soles, and the tread patterns are designed for road or track, not tennis. The most important thing is to be honest with yourself. A low to ground running shoe (non-marking soles) with a flattish outsole works for a very casual, non-runner poke at the courts. They won't work for advanced tennis players.
I would wear "barefoot" minimalist shoes or go barefoot for the walking etc so your foot can get relief from the contortion of shoes. A wide forefoot straight last tennis shoe with a good lacing system and sockliner should get you the relief, and give you the support and stability you need. Try a width size larger than your actual width, making sure the shoes have holes for a secure runner's knot. I have a straight foot as well and hate to much deviation (pointy) in the shoe boxes.

I have had a problem with a corn that caused pain on a prominent bone (5th Metatarsal) that sticks out of the side of my foot. The corn was removed.

I now have a Walking/Running New Balance shoe, model 990, that I intend to be used for tennis. It has a 'last' to match my straight foot. It is a "Walking/Running" shoe.

What is the difference in a W/R shoe vs a tennis shoe? I would also like some creditable technical references comparing tennis shoes vs walking/running shoes.

I also just met a new member of our club that simply cuts out holes on the sides of his shoes for some other foot injuries. He says that his shoes function well with some other modifications for his problems. He advised against using walking/running shoes for tennis.

 

[Pumpkin]

Running shoes are lighter than tennis shoes.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Will your club allow running outsoles? My clubs forbid it, and I haven't seen too many that accept. Many runners are marking soles, and the tread patterns are designed for road or track, not tennis. The most important thing is to be honest with yourself. A low to ground running shoe (non-marking soles) with a flattish outsole works for a very casual, non-runner poke at the courts. They won't work for advanced tennis players.
I would wear "barefoot" minimalist shoes or go barefoot for the walking etc so your foot can get relief from the contortion of shoes. A wide forefoot straight last tennis shoe with a good lacing system and sockliner should get you the relief, and give you the support and stability you need. Try a width size larger than your actual width, making sure the shoes have holes for a secure runner's knot. I have a straight foot as well and hate to much deviation (pointy) in the shoe boxes.

I see so much design variation in shoes, that I don't know what meaningful design is. No two bottoms look alike. If I find a pair that I like when I go to buy another pair, often they are no longer making that model. Once I found shoe strings, that when you pulled them they tightened way down the laces without much friction. I searched for them again and could not find them. Where are they now?

I need "accommodation" as the podiatrist says, at one spot on each foot, the 5th Metatarsal (proximal). I interpret that to mean for me, that the shoe should not touch my 5th Metatarsal during tennis. Or that any rubbing should be low pressure and much less frequent than normal. I'm stretching a spot on the shoe that is opposite the 5th M end. It may not be enough? Cutting a oval hole out of the shoe seems as if it would fix the rubbing.......

I don't want to mix my foot's corn injury complications for now with the Walk/Running Shoe vs Tennis Shoe issue. My new W/R shoe holds the heel in one position, feels stable. But I'm taking it easy on movement starting back to tennis.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Running shoes are lighter than tennis shoes.

The NB 990 I bought are not light. The heel cup is substantial.

I asked for the recommended shoe list at the podiatrist's office. The Walking/Running shoes were indicated but the tennis shoes were not. That could have been a mistake. Now, I have the shoes, I paid for some orthotics that are being made. ......... I'm researching the W/R shoes vs Tennis shoes.

I guess I use them, and at the first sigh of twisting my ankle or other problem, will stop. ?

 

[onehandbh]

My recommendation is to go to store that sells running shoes and try one several pairs of running shoes.

Do this test when you try them on in the store:

1) find a 3-5 meter open space in the store and then try running hard in one direction and then suddenly stopping. If it feels okay, do the same thing but this time make a quick direction change instead of stopping. Does it feel stable enough?

You can also place your phone or high speed camera on the ground at the point you will be stopping/changing directions and record a video to see how the shoe distorts/does. Record at 240 frames per second minimum. Any slower speed and it may be difficult to see the details of how the shoe is compressing/distorting when you stop/change directions. 24 or 25 fps may have too much motion blur.*

*I swear I am not mocking you with this high speed video suggestion.

 

[Purestriker]

I don't have any literature handy, but I'm sure others can pull up technical details as to why walking/running shoes are not a smart idea for a sport like tennis.

Tennis shoes are designed to deal with aggressive cuts and changes in direction and the starting/stopping that accompanies them. Lateral movement is a big part of the sport and you'll notice tennis shoes are designed with that stability in mind as well. Walking/running is a singular plane of movement-->forward. There is no need for the shoes to protect the wearer or feet from changes in direction, aggressive start/stop, or lateral movements. The cushioned and thick midsoles on those shoes have no firmness to support changes in directions and protect your feet/ankles.

I'll let others with more scientific details speak, but not sure how one could earnestly believe that walking shoes and tennis shoes are built interchangeably. I understand your personal concerns as foot problems are very difficult and effect every aspect of life so you certainly don't want to deviate from something which does not exacerbate or contribute to your discomfort.

Agreed. Not enough lateral support and the sole is not durable enough.

 

[SupahMan5000]

The NB 990 I bought are not light. The heel cup is substantial.

I would say for this specific comment running shoes are definitely lighter. the 990 is an old school running shoe but with today's technology the 990 is essentially a lifestyle/walking shoe. Even a decently cushioned shoe like NB 1080 is about 10oz. Which is a good 3-4 oz lighter than your typical tennis shoe.

*not an endorsement to use running shoes for tennis haha. Tennis shoes are an absolute must imo. Lateral movement can really kill your knee or ankle if you land improperly

 

[Sardines]

The NB 990 I bought are not light. The heel cup is substantial.

I asked for the recommended shoe list at the pediatrist's office. The Walking/Running shoes were indicated but the tennis shoes were not. That could have been a mistake. Now, I have the shoes, I paid for some orthotics that are being made. ......... I'm researching the W/R shoes vs Tennis shoes.

I guess I use them, and at the first sigh of twisting my ankle or other problem, will stop. ?

Usually by that time, it's a little late cos you probably would've rolled on it? When I trained seriously, I always wore ankle guards. The podiatrist doesn't have tennis shoe recommendations because it's not an area of expertise. Basketball ball is the same movement.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Usually by that time, it's a little late cos you probably would've rolled on it? When I trained seriously, I always wore ankle guards. The podiatrist doesn't have tennis shoe recommendations because it's not an area of expertise. Basketball ball is the same movement.

He actually did have tennis shoes listed as well as other kinds of shoes, but he circled the W/R shoe list and a few other lists. A tech got the list from him and I did not speak to him. Screw up?

I'm looking for tennis shoes now.

 

[jimmy8]

Use walking/running shoes for tennis if:
1. You want a high percentage chance of spraining your ankle because of lack of lateral support on the bottom of the shoe where your whole foot just flips over which makes your ankle fold 90 degrees.
2. You want a high percentage chance of causing further foot problems due to lack of lateral support on the sides of your feet. The very thin walls will give each time you change directions and your feet will strain to try to stay in place and then try to get back into the right place of the shoe after your feet slip.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Still looking for source technical information so that I could understand the specific shoe designs better.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Use walking/running shoes for tennis if:
1. You want a high percentage chance of spraining your ankle because of lack of lateral support on the bottom of the shoe where your whole foot just flips over which makes your ankle fold 90 degrees.
2. You want a high percentage chance of causing further foot problems due to lack of lateral support on the sides of your feet. The very thin walls will give each time you change directions and your feet will strain to try to stay in place and then try to get back into the right place of the shoe after your feet slip.

I would say that the W/Running shoe that I have, NB 990, has a very firm side wall and would allow little lateral movement. But I'm convinced by the comments and I'm getting a tennis shoe.

 

[LOBALOT]

Walking / Running shoes are designed to place the runner forward on their toes and to run forward not stop quickly. Thus they have more of a drop and do not have lateral support (You don't run sideways). Tennis is a side-to-side start and stopping sport so wearing W/R shoes puts you at risk to roll over your ankles in the corners as you cut back to the center of the court.

Moreover, look at any decent tennis shoe and you will see rubber supports that extent up the outside of the foot. W/R shoes do not have/need this so your foot is at risk to slide inside the shoe and place a lot of pressure on the outside of the foot which I believe you are trying to avoid.

In addition, W/R Shoes put you at risk for toe-jambs as you slam on the brakes running forward even when laced very tightly due to the toe drop.

I am not clear on how a running shoe is going to relieve pressure on that outside of the toe/foot and if anything I would think would be worse and put you at risk for further/other injuries.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Walking / Running shoes are designed to place the runner forward on their toes and to run forward not stop quickly. Thus they have more of a drop and do not have lateral support (You don't run sideways). Tennis is a side-to-side start and stopping sport so wearing W/R shoes puts you at risk to roll over your ankles in the corners as you cut back to the center of the court.

Moreover, look at any decent tennis shoe and you will see rubber supports that extent up the outside of the foot. W/R shoes do not have/need this so your foot is at risk to slide inside the shoe and place a lot of pressure on the outside of the foot which I believe you are trying to avoid.

In addition, W/R Shoes put you at risk for toe-jambs as you slam on the brakes running forward even when laced very tightly due to the toe drop.

I am not clear on how a running shoe is going to relieve pressure on that outside of the toe/foot and if anything I would think would be worse and put you at risk for further/other injuries.

I hear about what the shoe should do. But the disconnect for me is how it does it. One issue is the relative width of the heel that contacts the court and its affect on stability. That is the number one question. Most of the information is marketing in nature and does not deal with how design relates to 'lateral stability'.

The pressure on the side of my foot is going to be dealt with by 'accommodation' - making space somehow. Last resort would be to cut a hole in the shoe where the bone of my 5th Metatarsal is prominent. Last visit the podiatrist removed the corn. He had said at the beginning that should greatly reduce the pain and it has. I'm starting tennis and will have some results and we will get to his prescribed orthotics. Pressure and friction where the corn formed at the 5th M bone tip is likely to cause another corn to form.

 

[Chas Tennis]

The pediatrist has a general shoe list - not necessarily the best shoe model for my 5th M side of the foot issue.

The tennis shoe recommendations on the pediatrist's general list are
Adidas - Barricade, Stan Smith
Asics - Court, Resolution, Dedicate
New Balance - 696, Court 806
Nike - Vapor, React

I have looked at some and don't want a plastic barrier (see Asics Resolution) on the side at the location of the 5th M protrusion. Want to accommodate for 'no touch' at that spot with shoe stretcher or a hole in the shoe (as someone at my club has done with success)

The last 3 pairs of tennis shoes that I have mail ordered were so inflexible under the big toe area, that I had to return them. I get the shoe, bend it, and send it back, and that is what I expect now. (My big toe stiffness issue is an old foot problem, mostly fixed.)

 

[Bambooman]

It really does depend on which running shoe or walking shoe you are talking about. Some are easily good enough for tennis. I actually prefer them because I can move faster.

You may consider a Crossfit specific shoe as well. They tend to be very stable and low profile.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Use walking/running shoes for tennis if:
1. You want a high percentage chance of spraining your ankle because of lack of lateral support on the bottom of the shoe where your whole foot just flips over which makes your ankle fold 90 degrees.
2. You want a high percentage chance of causing further foot problems due to lack of lateral support on the sides of your feet. The very thin walls will give each time you change directions and your feet will strain to try to stay in place and then try to get back into the right place of the shoe after your feet slip.

I had first hand experience with #2:

For a time, we played platform tennis at our club on a concrete court. I used some shoes that were not tennis shoes. The heels flared out where they touched the ground. Mostly, they felt great and I liked them. After a few weeks, once suddenly it felt as if a hand reached up out of the concrete and grabbed my foot. My ankle went over, no injury. It had felt stable until if suddenly flipped. That was strange. A few weeks later, it occurred again. I stopped using those shoes after the second or third time. I have always thought that was related to the flared heel. ?

 

[LOBALOT]

I hear about what the shoe should do. But the disconnect for me is how it does it. One issue is the relative width of the heel that contacts the court and its affect on stability. That is the number one question. Most of the information is marketing in nature and does not deal with how design relates to 'lateral stability'.

The pressure on the side of my foot is going to be dealt with by 'accommodation' - making space somehow. Last resort would be to cut a hole in the shoe where the bone of my 5th Metatarsal is prominent. Last visit the pediatrist removed the corn. He had said at the beginning that should greatly reduce the pain and it has. I'm starting tennis and will have some results and we will get to his prescribed orthotics. Pressure and friction where the corn formed at the 5th M bone tip is likely to cause another corn to form.

I am not clear on the question. It does it the same way for example as a race car does it by spreading out and staying low to the ground. Think of the difference between a formula one race car low to the ground with with the wheels out at the 4 corners to handle curves at a fast rate of speed and a train which can be narrower and taller designed for a straight path and gradual curves.

To exaggerate the phenomena imagine you played tennis in your wife's high heel shoes. Your legs would look great but might have an issue recovering to the center of the court without falling over.

You should really talk to your doctor/foot guy on this.

 

[Sardines]

First of all, it's pOdiatrist. Pediatrists are baby doctors.
I haven't seen a tennis shoe that doesn't have some sort of inward deviation in the toe box. Tennis movement will always cos your 5th metatarsal to contact the upper, when you stop laterally, land after a jump etc etc. The point is to reduce the rubbing. Double socking helps, as do corn protectors. You could go longer by 1/2+ size longer and/or wider with a +E to give you the wider toe section to fit a corn protector. Then a custom insole that gives you the lateral support in the shoe but with a very secure lacing system to keep your foot stable and secure. Good luck!

The pediatrist has a general shoe list - not necessarily the best shoe model for my 5th M side of the foot issue.

The tennis shoe recommendations on the pediatrist's general list are
Adidas - Barricade, Stan Smith
Asics - Court, Resolution, Dedicate
New Balance - 696, Court 806
Nike - Vapor, React

I have looked at some and don't want a plastic barrier (see Asics Resolution) on the side at the location of the 5th M protrusion. Want to accommodate for 'no touch' at that spot with shoe stretcher or a hole in the shoe (as someone at my club has done with success)

The last 3 pairs of tennis shoes that I have mail ordered were so inflexible under the big toe area, that I had to return them. I get the shoe, bend it, and send it back, and that is what I expect now. (My big toe stiffness issue is an old foot problem, mostly fixed.)

 

[Chas Tennis]

First of all, it's pOdiatrist. Pediatrists are baby doctors.
I haven't seen a tennis shoe that doesn't have some sort of inward deviation in the toe box. Tennis movement will always cos your 5th metatarsal to contact the upper, when you stop laterally, land after a jump etc etc. The point is to reduce the rubbing. Double socking helps, as do corn protectors. You could go longer by 1/2+ size longer and/or wider with a +E to give you the wider toe section to fit a corn protector. Then a custom insole that gives you the lateral support in the shoe but with a very secure lacing system to keep your foot stable and secure. Good luck!

Whoops! Will fix the spelling. Thanks.

I wrote more about the corn in other posts. Search: 5th Metatarsal .....Member: Chas Tennis

My foot is unusual now. If I straighten my hand and place it on the side of my foot, I only feel the prominent 5th M because it is a bony high point. In addition, my podiatrist said that when I walk my bones flatten, and maybe, I guess, that the 5th M bone moved somehow. ?

The 5th M prominence on the side of my foot is shown by this camera angle. I don't want the shoe to touch the 5th M prominence but to supply forces to the rest of my 5th M and other areas on the side of my foot. On right - expand - there are two incisions visible and I'm not certain which location was the corn.

In order to stop my foot in tennis, forces must be applied to the side of my foot. It would be ideal if the forces could be applied to my foot side - but not touch the proximal end of the 5th M. An "accommodation" prescription to make space with orthotics was given. I have also tried to stretch the shoe at that location. It does not feel bad playing so far with the NB 990s and an insert. But now I've decided to get tennis shoes.

References indicate that corns are formed by pressure and friction. The corn was inside/under? callus. A complication of the corn is that some corns are on the plantar (bottom) side of the foot and others are on the lateral side, or in between. Mine was close to in between.

Orthotic Adjustments For Prominent Fifth Metatarsal Base: Plantar or Lateral? | ProLab Orthotics, Inc.

ProLab Orthotics is a manufacturer of evidence-based, custom foot orthoses. Read our post, "Orthotic Adjustments For Prominent Fifth Metatarsal Base: Plantar or Lateral?."

www.prolaborthotics.com

The corn was about 1 mm in diameter and it was the 1st corn that I have had in my life. It took 3 surgeries to find & remove the corn, surgeries spaced 2 weeks apart, with healing in between each procedure. Procedure not painful, moderate pain healing. (Neuropathy on the bottom of my foot may have reduced the surgery pain?)

I am now recognizing that tennis shoes appear to have more structures on the shoe side at the 5th M prominence - I wish I had a technical reference that showed an arrow pointing to those shoe structures and saying - 'for lateral stability'.

Will call the Dr.....

 

[Pumpkin]

This is controversial and I don't recommend it for legal reasons, but I use running shoes to play tennis. Tennis shoes are too heavy for me.

 

[Sardines]

Nothing controversial. If you shuffle around and play at a slow pace/level, then any shoe will do. It's only when the movement starts getting more rigorous does stability come into play.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Nothing controversial. If you shuffle around and play at a slow pace/level, then any shoe will do. It's only when the movement starts getting more rigorous does stability come into play.

I feel OK playing now, but I'm starting back slowly. I'm looking for a tennis shoe now.

 

[BorgCash]

It's much better to use for tennis basketball shoes rather than running/walking ones. There is a huge choice of different basketball shoes so anybody could find very comfortable variant.

 

[Grizzy]

The vast majority of recreational athletic people around the world play all sorts of sports in running shoes. There is a general running shoe category that is just a good all purpose shoe. When I was in university I would play floor hockey, volleyball and basketball all in the same pair of Asics running shoes. Floor hockey arguably has more quick changes of direction than tennis has and I don't remember myself or anyone else rolling ankles in our running shoes.

It's only when you get into the Asics Novablast 3 territory that it becomes super dangerous. Shoes like those are springboards meant for one direction only on flat ground. Obviously, good tennis shoes will be best for you. But they're not a necessity for level of play 3.5 and below

 

[Chas Tennis]

I was having a very bad time finding any tennis shoes to try on. The first 3 shops on the podiatrist's list only had running shoes. The last larger store in the next town had a large wall of shoes with little signs at each shoe saying "soccer", "running", etc. I looked for "tennis" and could not find any. I asked the sales person and the young guy had trouble with the term "tennis shoes", he could only relate to "court" shoes. There were no little signs with "court" shoes or "tennis"shoes. He pointed out 4 pair of shoes that he said were 'court' shoes. That was the selection...........

I was getting nowhere trying to find and try on tennis shoes.

Watching the AO last night, there was a closeup of Djokovic's blue shoes. I looked them up and they were Asics. In fact, they were "Court" model, one of the three Asics tennis shoe models on the Podiatrist's list. Believe I examined them earlier and did not like the design for some reason.

I wanted to try the shoes on, because as I posted, mail order shoes have had very stiff bottoms that I avoid because of a past stiffness in my big toe. Forget that now. Will live with stiff toe area if they have that.

I found that TW has a very fast free delivery for CA. So I'm getting Djokovic's Asic's Court shoes.

When the shoes arrive, I'll send the inserts to an orthotics company that has impressions of my feet and is now waiting to make orthotics. The inserts help fit to the shoe. I may have to modify - with a box cutter - the new Asics shoes at the areas of my feet with the 5th M.

 

[papado]

Watching the AO last night, there was a closeup of Djokovic's blue shoes. I looked them up and they were Asics. In fact, they were "Court" model, one of the three Asics tennis shoe models on the Podiatrist's list. Believe I examined them earlier and did not like the design for some reason.

I wanted to try the shoes on, because as I posted, mail order shoes have had very stiff bottoms that I avoid because of a past stiffness in my big toe. Forget that now. Will live with stiff toe area if they have that.

I found that TW has a very fast free delivery for CA. So I'm getting Djokovic's Asic's Court shoes.

When the shoes arrive, I'll send the inserts to an orthotics company that has impressions of my feet and is now waiting to make orthotics. The inserts help fit to the shoe. I may have to modify - with a box cutter - the new Asics shoes at the areas of my feet with the 5th M.

I have the new djokovic court FF3's and they may work for your problem, but of course it's up to your comfort once you try them on. They're not stiff like your previous complaints and the upper should be soft enough to not rub into the side of your foot; looking forward to you hopefully finding a shoe which makes it comfortable to play tennis!

 

[Chas Tennis]

See picture in post #24. Picture a shoe against the side of my foot. Every shoe shape on the side of my foot will rub on the 5th M high point. [Pressure and friction create corns.] I have to move the shoe surface out from my 5th M high point. I can do that with a shoe width stretcher, see post #19. If that is not enough and the podiatrist does not have a fix, I or he can also cut oval shaped holes out of my new tennis shoes. I want the shoe against the 5th M bone but just not the bony end of it nearest my ankle.

What tool can cut a ~1/2 inch hole in shoe material? A chassis punch used on thin sheet metal?