Want A Better, More Powerful Serve? (The 10 Step Program)

TennsDog

TennsDog

Hall of Fame
Here is a list of key elements that make up a good overall serve, and coincidentally will ensure that you are getting the most mph's you can out of it.

1. Proper ball toss: make sure the ball toss is where it should be at contact. A toss that is too low, too forward, etc. will cause a decrease in power and consistancy.

2. Weight shift: make sure you shift your weight from the back foot to the front foot sometime before you start your swing. (See steps 3 and 4 for further detail.)

3. Knee bend: a solid knee bend is key in the kinetic chain of a serve. It aids in the weight shift as well as exploding up into the ball for added spin and pace.

4. Use the legs: now that your knees are bent, extend them to explode into the serve. When done properly, this will lift you into the air (notice you are not jumping. You are simply propelling yourself into the air as a biproduct of proper leg use). You will likely extend your back leg backwards and land on your front foot slightly inside the court (though this should happen rather naturally).

5. Keep you head up: it is easy for a lot of people to drop their head prematurely during the serve, which may cause mis-hits and other problems with the serve. If you watch most pros (slow mo videos or photos) you will see that they are still looking right at the ball and racket at contact and only look away sometime near when the ball crosses the net.

6. LOOSE ARM AND WRIST: very, very important for every aspect of the serve. Do not try to force or muscle the serve. The kinetic chain will take care of itself if you just let it. Make sure you do not forcibly snap your wrist at contact. This will cause a decrease in power and consistancy, not to mention causing tennis elbow (trust me on this one, I have recenly seen the light after coming off a year and a half bout of tennis elbow caused by intentionally snapping my wrist to serve. Now my serve has more power and more spin with no elbow pain.)

7. Drop back shoulder: when you see a good server in the "trophy position", they have almost a perfectly straight line from their hitting elbow all the way across their shoulders to their tossing hand which points right at the ball. This is crucial for the next step to work...

8. Shoulder rotation, elbow, and racket drop: from the trophy position with the racket up and hitting shoulder down (and loose arm), the hitting shoulder and tossing shoulder should very rapidly rotate much like a teter totter. Along with this step, the hitting elbow should shortly follow the shoulder. These two steps start the kinetic chain in the arm and will cause a racket drop (something that is not a conscious step in an advanced serve).

9. LOOSE ARM AND WRIST: did I mention this already? Keep your arm and wrist loose through contact. If you have done the previous steps properly, the forearm and racket will rapidly accelerate through contact due to the motion of the shoulder and elbow (see step 8).

10. Follow through: make sure you have a good follow through. Some people follow through all the way across their bodies while others stop right in front of the body, but all exibit a full extention through contact and allow the racket to finish its path using the momentum generated at contact.

So there you have it, ten steps to perfecting your serve and acing your opponents right off the court.

As an added note, I have found the shoulders to be the best place to find a few extra mph's and rpm's on the serve if you already have a good serve and are looking to help it further. I had spent a couple years examining the serve of Pete Sampras in great detail and had finally gotten a nice fluid motion for myself. I recently watched Roddick playing and wondered what made his serve look so explosive. It is his shoulders. His great flexibility and use of shoulders really allows him to accelerate his racket head to great speeds. I took this to the courts, changing nothing in my service motion whatsoever except for focusing on rotation my shoulders more explosively. The results were simply undeniable: more speed, more spin, and more consistancy...instanly. Everything was going in and with much more weight.

Good luck and happy serving. :)
 
woooh, this thread needs to be sticky.

What about wrist snap? Pro use wrist snap on everything, FH, BH, volley, drop shot, ordering in a restaurant, knuckle cracking, brush their teeth, picking their bottom, picking their nose, picking someone else's nose, holding the trophy...
 
yes, the wrist snap is really a key factor, and I don't think the knee bend really helps initiate the kinetic chain. I believe that was in tennis magazine. I think the purpose of the knee bend is to get more under the ball. I guess the jumping part also includes a knee bend.
 
How can you have a loose wrist and snap it?

If you have lots of racquet head speed, your wrist will bend naturally. It's not a forced movement.
 
The knee bend, and thrusting upward from that positions aids in the external rotation of the hitting shoulder. This rotation is essential for a powerful serve. If you watch roddick, or sampras, you can see they get so much external rotation that their forearms are basically parallel to the ground
 
vinky said:
The knee bend, and thrusting upward from that positions aids in the external rotation of the hitting shoulder. This rotation is essential for a powerful serve. If you watch roddick, or sampras, you can see they get so much external rotation that their forearms are basically parallel to the ground
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Yes, you get the stretch across the chest and shoulders. So critical, in my view, to a powerful serve. It's an extra, what, maybe 5%-10%, to the serve velocity if done properly?

-Robert
 
See this thread for more info on the wrist snap.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=105310
As for the knee bend, I am aware of Tennis Magazine's recent article. However, I am also aware of every pro's serve as well as mine. I am quite certain that the knee bend is an essential part of any good serve. I helps maintain balance, weight shift, rhythm, and adds power not in and of itself, but it forces the upper arm and shoulder to stretch and coil further than you can naturally on your own, thus generating more power. Furthermore, it also allows for a larger degree of shoulder rotation pre-contact for, again, more power. I guarantee you will not be able to get as much power from your serve if you have a weak or no knee bend.
 
According to the latest issue of the tennis magazine "The Snap", with numerous studies use high tech camera, x-ray, gamma-ray, death-ray, CAT scan, DOG scan, 10 out of 10 doctors agree, wrist snap can effectively increase the speed of serve to ludicrous speed. And the most correct to do execute the wrist snap is to snap the ball across the cheeks mutiple times, it is known as the bitiyu snap.
 
This is not the place to debate the wrist snap. If you would like to do so, please do so in the thread about the wrist snap I have posted above.

Also, two other things to keep in mind while serving are to bring in the tossing arm as you being shoulder rotation to facilitate the process for greated velocity and to not let the racket head stop during the motion, at least if you have a long, more traditional backswing like Sampras or Agassi. If you have a motion similar to Roddick, then the jerky motion is fine. But if you have a long continuous backswing and you let it stop at either the top and especially bottom (back scratch position), then it will rob you of much power. I was observing this with Hingis during her match today. She nearly stops the racket just before accelerating and she has a relatively weak serve because of it. Stopping the racket forces you to use energy to get it moving again before accelerating it around. If it stays moving, all energy goes into acceleration into contact.
 
It is not a debate, it is a fact....

Ok, nevermind, guys, you know, I forgot the :) in two of my posts...
I can't believe you guys fell for that....and some actually agree with me... :p

Apologize for my naughtiness ;)

Just read the TennsDog post and forget wrist snap, did I mention wrist snap?
 
I know that I definitely have more knee bend on my 2nd serve over my first serve. Knee bend is important for consistency. Pushing up can give added power but I think its more important for helping to bring the ball into the box.

I dont have much knee bend in my first serve but with my type of service motion, it would be difficult to have a lot. If you remember Roscoe Tanner's serve, it was more of a quick release serve over most and thats what my 1st serve is like. However he had plenty of speed on that ball. :)

Zach
 
Consider late in a match when you get tired and the legs get heavy. You lose your knee bend and your serve suffers in power. We've just about all been there before. Clear proof that a knee bend is crucial for an effective serve.
 
You are missing a very important part of serving...keeping your tossing hand high up pointing to the ball for as long as possible.

Micky
 
Good list.

If your looking for something to replace the duplicate, how about keeping the hips facing the sidelines as long as possible - this will ad a few MPHs also. Lots of players open up much too quickly on the serve.
 
While this list does indeed present many important charicteristics of a good serve, there are other elements that are critical to a great serve and several that are overstated.

1. Grip. There are very few examples of players having a great serve using an eastern forehand grip. While there are execptions, (Becker for one), players who use an eastern forehand grip (frying pan grip) can impliment all of the issues stated in the list and never reach their potential on the serve.

2. While legs are an important part of a great serve, they are far from the most important. I have trained wheelchair players to serve over 100 mph, and I myself, demonstrate serving on my knees (at over 100 mph) to show that the legs are not critcal to having a great serve. (Since most recreational to club players seldom serve at 100 mph, and most use their legs to some degree, they obviously are deficent in other parts of the serve equation.)

3. Spin: If a player does not understand the concept of spin and axis of spin, swinging with the legs, a loose wrist and arm, and a perception of snapping the wrist will all be wasted. Even a serve at 130 + mph has to have spin (unless the player is about 8 feet tall!). There have been studies to show the amount and kind of spin that players such as Roddick, Sampras, and others use on their serves. The vast majority of players I see playing tennis or that come to my academy, fail in this area of understanding the serve.

4. Coil. A player will gain far more angular momentum by tossing a little higher and creating time to coil and uncoil into a serve. The coil is one of three ways to increase service speed (outside of arm speed): Rotational thrust, Upward Thrust, and Forward Thrust. These elements can add about 5 to 15% to a proper serve motion. This is often misunderstood since, if a player serves only 50 mph, at best, these elements will add approximately 7 mph to this 50 mph serve. However, if the player has the right swing pattern with the right grip, they should be able to create about 100 mph with none of these added elements. Now, when you do add these elements to such a serve now you are serving around 115 mph...a significant increase to an already good serve.

5. While the toss is essential for any good serve, its consistency in location does not necessarily improve the quality of one's serve. It will increase the consistency of one's serve, however. Obviously, if one improves consistency, one can then improve confidence and end up swinging with more aggressiveness...thus improving the effect of the serve. If a player has a terrible serve motion but a consistent toss, such a toss will not change the fact that the player has a poor service motion.

Just a few insights to add discussion on this topic.
 
Tennismastery said:
2. While legs are an important part of a great serve, they are far from the most important. I have trained wheelchair players to serve over 100 mph, and I myself, demonstrate serving on my knees (at over 100 mph) to show that the legs are not critcal to having a great serve. (Since most recreational to club players seldom serve at 100 mph, and most use their legs to some degree, they obviously are deficent in other parts of the serve equation.)
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Interesting point, Mastery. I, for one, use the "coil" as the major power source. I've been trying to use my legs & knee bend more & more, but the only thing I can do with the knee bend is to throw my hip into the court a little bit more.THAT, seems like the major function of the knee bend, as far as I understand it... other opinions are welcome.
 
i disagree with number 7. NEVER drop your shoulder. i used to do this and never had accuracy. the reason the shoulder LOOKS like it is dropped is due to a good leg bend and arched back. number 7 should read, shoulders should be kept straight.
roger%20federer%209.jpg
shoulders are STRAIGHT (imagine the picture was tilted to the right)
 
metsjets said:
i disagree with number 7. NEVER drop your shoulder. i used to do this and never had accuracy. the reason the shoulder LOOKS like it is dropped is due to a good leg bend and arched back. number 7 should read, shoulders should be kept straight.
roger%20federer%209.jpg
shoulders are STRAIGHT (imagine the picture was tilted to the right)
Click to expand...

Straight but not parrellel to the court - I think he has it right.
 
Tennismastery said:
While this list does indeed present many important charicteristics of a good serve, there are other elements that are critical to a great serve and several that are overstated.

1. Grip. There are very few examples of players having a great serve using an eastern forehand grip. While there are execptions, (Becker for one), players who use an eastern forehand grip (frying pan grip) can impliment all of the issues stated in the list and never reach their potential on the serve.

2. While legs are an important part of a great serve, they are far from the most important. I have trained wheelchair players to serve over 100 mph, and I myself, demonstrate serving on my knees (at over 100 mph) to show that the legs are not critcal to having a great serve. (Since most recreational to club players seldom serve at 100 mph, and most use their legs to some degree, they obviously are deficent in other parts of the serve equation.)

3. Spin: If a player does not understand the concept of spin and axis of spin, swinging with the legs, a loose wrist and arm, and a perception of snapping the wrist will all be wasted. Even a serve at 130 + mph has to have spin (unless the player is about 8 feet tall!). There have been studies to show the amount and kind of spin that players such as Roddick, Sampras, and others use on their serves. The vast majority of players I see playing tennis or that come to my academy, fail in this area of understanding the serve.

4. Coil. A player will gain far more angular momentum by tossing a little higher and creating time to coil and uncoil into a serve. The coil is one of three ways to increase service speed (outside of arm speed): Rotational thrust, Upward Thrust, and Forward Thrust. These elements can add about 5 to 15% to a proper serve motion. This is often misunderstood since, if a player serves only 50 mph, at best, these elements will add approximately 7 mph to this 50 mph serve. However, if the player has the right swing pattern with the right grip, they should be able to create about 100 mph with none of these added elements. Now, when you do add these elements to such a serve now you are serving around 115 mph...a significant increase to an already good serve.

5. While the toss is essential for any good serve, its consistency in location does not necessarily improve the quality of one's serve. It will increase the consistency of one's serve, however. Obviously, if one improves consistency, one can then improve confidence and end up swinging with more aggressiveness...thus improving the effect of the serve. If a player has a terrible serve motion but a consistent toss, such a toss will not change the fact that the player has a poor service motion.

Just a few insights to add discussion on this topic.
Click to expand...

Well, interesting stuff which is hard to dissagree with. I've played with and helped several wheelchair players - couple had excellent serves but I never thought them real fast, at least not 100 mph. I have a lot of respect, as I'm sure you do, for players in chairs - talk about guts.
 
A few things: one is I was not even intending to make it 10 steps, it just came out that way (and I did want to emphasize the loose arm and wrist). Also, I think the knee bend very much facilitates the "coil", as it is very difficult to coil at all without a knee bend. As for the shoulder drop, I did not mean to sag the shoulder lower in the socket or whatever, that pictures of Federer does clearly show what I was getting at. The hitting shoulder should drop substantially lower toward the ground below the tossing shoulder. Like I said, it is like a teter totter. You get one kid on the back side (racket hand) to drop that side. Then it is like a really heavy kid jumps on the other side and rockets the poor light weight kid (the racket) up and forward. It just happens as dicated by the laws of physics.

BTW, yes, please feel free to add other important elements to a serve. I was not trying to imply that list was all that is necessary, I just thought those were some of the most important and most basic things to keep in mind when trying to learn or improve the serve.
 
I took this to the courts, changing nothing in my service motion whatsoever except for focusing on rotation my shoulders more explosively. The results were simply undeniable: more speed, more spin, and more consistancy...instanly. Everything was going in and with much more weight.
Click to expand...

this is right because my slice serve started to get a lot of movement just from the shoulder movements.
 
TennsDog said:
Here is a list of key elements that make up a good overall serve, and coincidentally will ensure that you are getting the most mph's you can out of it.

1. Proper ball toss: make sure the ball toss is where it should be at contact. A toss that is too low, too forward, etc. will cause a decrease in power and consistancy.

2. Weight shift: make sure you shift your weight from the back foot to the front foot sometime before you start your swing. (See steps 3 and 4 for further detail.)

3. Knee bend: a solid knee bend is key in the kinetic chain of a serve. It aids in the weight shift as well as exploding up into the ball for added spin and pace.

4. Use the legs: now that your knees are bent, extend them to explode into the serve. When done properly, this will lift you into the air (notice you are not jumping. You are simply propelling yourself into the air as a biproduct of proper leg use). You will likely extend your back leg backwards and land on your front foot slightly inside the court (though this should happen rather naturally).

5. Keep you head up: it is easy for a lot of people to drop their head prematurely during the serve, which may cause mis-hits and other problems with the serve. If you watch most pros (slow mo videos or photos) you will see that they are still looking right at the ball and racket at contact and only look away sometime near when the ball crosses the net.

6. LOOSE ARM AND WRIST: very, very important for every aspect of the serve. Do not try to force or muscle the serve. The kinetic chain will take care of itself if you just let it. Make sure you do not forcibly snap your wrist at contact. This will cause a decrease in power and consistancy, not to mention causing tennis elbow (trust me on this one, I have recenly seen the light after coming off a year and a half bout of tennis elbow caused by intentionally snapping my wrist to serve. Now my serve has more power and more spin with no elbow pain.)

7. Drop back shoulder: when you see a good server in the "trophy position", they have almost a perfectly straight line from their hitting elbow all the way across their shoulders to their tossing hand which points right at the ball. This is crucial for the next step to work...

8. Shoulder rotation, elbow, and racket drop: from the trophy position with the racket up and hitting shoulder down (and loose arm), the hitting shoulder and tossing shoulder should very rapidly rotate much like a teter totter. Along with this step, the hitting elbow should shortly follow the shoulder. These two steps start the kinetic chain in the arm and will cause a racket drop (something that is not a conscious step in an advanced serve).

9. LOOSE ARM AND WRIST: did I mention this already? Keep your arm and wrist loose through contact. If you have done the previous steps properly, the forearm and racket will rapidly accelerate through contact due to the motion of the shoulder and elbow (see step 8).

10. Follow through: make sure you have a good follow through. Some people follow through all the way across their bodies while others stop right in front of the body, but all exibit a full extention through contact and allow the racket to finish its path using the momentum generated at contact.

So there you have it, ten steps to perfecting your serve and acing your opponents right off the court.

As an added note, I have found the shoulders to be the best place to find a few extra mph's and rpm's on the serve if you already have a good serve and are looking to help it further. I had spent a couple years examining the serve of Pete Sampras in great detail and had finally gotten a nice fluid motion for myself. I recently watched Roddick playing and wondered what made his serve look so explosive. It is his shoulders. His great flexibility and use of shoulders really allows him to accelerate his racket head to great speeds. I took this to the courts, changing nothing in my service motion whatsoever except for focusing on rotation my shoulders more explosively. The results were simply undeniable: more speed, more spin, and more consistancy...instanly. Everything was going in and with much more weight.

Good luck and happy serving. :)
Click to expand...

Am i wrong on this one: I thought the Back also was playing a big factor, together with the bending knee's creating the power, like a bungee thing. you know..? elastic power... pulling back.. realeasing:P
 
Bending the back does help with power, though not nearly as much as the legs, trunk, and shoulders. Also, if you get a proper knee bend and toss location, the back arch should occur naturally, and the elastic element should come into play as you rotate your shoulders. So yes, the back is a part of a proper serve, however, it will take care of itself as a biproduct of doing everything else properly.
 
I was just wondering for a topspin serve how to get good movement into the court since you are supposed to toss a little behind your head.
 
The terms "forward/backward" and "in front/behind" can be confusing when dealing with the serve. There are two separate orientations with the serve: forward being towards the net (before and after the serve) and the sideline (during the serve). The use of "behind your head" when talking about a topspin serve refers to the latter, where the ball is tossed behind you along the baseline, but is still into the court with respect to the first orientation. See this video, it may or may not help. Both serves seen are topspin serves and both bring me well into the court.
http://members.aol.com/mkbennetts/PAP/serve.mov
 
i cant seem to get my serves in i do everything of the above sometimes my serve goes in and its amazing but half of the time it is long or hits the net Im trying to develop cosistency while still having a serve that will put my opponent on their heels.
 
tennispr() said:
i cant seem to get my serves in i do everything of the above sometimes my serve goes in and its amazing but half of the time it is long or hits the net Im trying to develop cosistency while still having a serve that will put my opponent on their heels.
Click to expand...

50% goes in and amazing at the same time is not too bad if it is a 1st serve :)
...or you mean half goes long and half hit the net...hhhmmm...
 
Develop consistancy with good mechanics first, then power will come later. Never learn a stroke trying to make it powerful or aggressive from the start. It will inhibit your ability to make it natural.
 
tennsdog, dont take this the wrong way, but putting a picture of yourself pumping your fist as an avatar sets off a gaydar alert.
 
saqdeez said:
tennsdog, dont take this the wrong way, but putting a picture of yourself pumping your fist as an avatar sets off a gaydar alert.
Click to expand...
Wow. Just curious as to a few things. Why do you find it necessary to post that comment? This is a tennis forum, I'm playing tennis, how does that not make sense? How the hell do you correlate pumping a fist with homosexuality? Perhaps you have a better avatar picture that is appropriate for me and my personality?

Oh, and BTW, I have a hard time respecting anyone who uses the word "gaydar."
 
TennsDog said:
Wow. Just curious as to a few things. Why do you find it necessary to post that comment? This is a tennis forum, I'm playing tennis, how does that not make sense? How the hell do you correlate pumping a fist with homosexuality? Perhaps you have a better avatar picture that is appropriate for me and my personality?

Oh, and BTW, I have a hard time respecting anyone who uses the word "gaydar."
Click to expand...

Ahhh, sounds like someone got in. I think the key looks like a personal attack gets the adreniline going. Maybe if we ever play, I can say your shot looked "gay" or something. Maybe I can get you out of your element.

Focus. It is irrelevant that someone makes fun of your avatar. It is one person out of a billion. Ignore this attack, unless of course you want to use this to find the key to unravel his mind. :) If so, you need to put a full-court press on the guy. That is a strategy BB takes sometimes.

Remember no one gets respect in this forum. This is a great place to work on getting a "thick skin".
 
Bungalo Bill said:
Ahhh, sounds like someone got in. I think the key looks like a personal attack gets the adreniline going. Maybe if we ever play, I can say your shot looked "gay" or something. Maybe I can get you out of your element.

Focus. It is irrelevant that someone makes fun of your avatar. It is one person out of a billion. Ignore this attack, unless of course you want to use this to find the key to unravel his mind. :) If so, you need to put a full-court press on the guy. That is a strategy BB takes sometimes.

Remember no one gets respect in this forum. This is a great place to work on getting a "thick skin".
Click to expand...


The biggest thing to remember is that this is not the real world, so who cares.

I'm sure a lot of these people on here are not what they say or think they are, they come here and seek and push for confrentations because in the real world they are pushed down due to personal issue ie lack of sucess ect

and never argue with BB:rolleyes: other wise he will freak out jk jk jk:mrgreen:
 
jackson vile said:
The biggest thing to remember is that this is not the real world, so who cares.

I'm sure a lot of these people on here are not what they say or think they are, they come here and seek and push for confrentations because in the real world they are pushed down due to personal issue ie lack of sucess ect

and never argue with BB:rolleyes: other wise he will freak out jk jk jk:mrgreen:
Click to expand...

"Freak out", what a putz. You just hate when someone tells you your advice is half-witted, dumb, or "out there".
 
TennsDog said:
Here is a list of key elements that make up a good overall serve, and coincidentally will ensure that you are getting the most mph's you can out of it.

3. Knee bend: a solid knee bend is key in the kinetic chain of a serve. It aids in the weight shift as well as exploding up into the ball for added spin and pace.

4. Use the legs: now that your knees are bent, extend them to explode into the serve. When done properly, this will lift you into the air (notice you are not jumping. You are simply propelling yourself into the air as a biproduct of proper leg use). You will likely extend your back leg backwards and land on your front foot slightly inside the court (though this should happen rather naturally).
Good luck and happy serving. :)
Click to expand...

I would like to challenge #3 and #4 in a friendly fashion as this is something I hear and see a lot on TV (he's getting a lot of power from his legs).

I submit as the basis for my challenge, the article in tennis magazine in July of 2006 (around page 34-36) where Peter Burwash talks about wheelchair bound players getting good pop on their strokes and that the most important thing your legs or knee can do is maintain a balanced platform.

In my personal experience, when I injured my knee, I ended up working on loopy second serves while doing rehab. After this I took lessons w/ a pro b/c I was concerned I would never have a good first serve as trying to bend knees or explode into the ball was causing pain. Instead of finding a different leg position, he had me serve doing absolutely nothing w/ my feet except keeping balanced. I now have a first and second serve that is as good (and perhaps more reliable) as before the injury!

Final part of challenge, in comparison to other sports like Americanfootball, I typically do not see QBs bend their knees and explode up to throw the deep pass. Rather they're using their legs for balance/stability.

Regarding the rest of the tips, I agree w/ them wholeheartedly. Good job in compiling them.

editted to provide correct Tennis Magazine reference.
 
Roforot said:
I would like to challenge #3 and #4 in a friendly fashion as this is something I hear and see a lot on TV (he's getting a lot of power from his legs).

I submit as the basis for my challenge, the article in tennis magazine in June of 2006, where a coach talks about wheelchair bound players getting good pop on their strokes and that the most important thing your legs or knee can do is maintain a balanced platform.

In my personal experience, when I injured my knee, I ended up working on loopy second serves while doing rehab. After this I took lessons w/ a pro b/c I was concerned I would never have a good first serve as trying to bend knees or explode into the ball was causing pain. Instead of finding a different leg position, he had me serve doing absolutely nothing w/ my feet except keeping balanced. I now have a first and second serve that is as good (and perhaps more reliable) as before the injury!

Final part of challenge, in comparison to other sports like Americanfootball, I typically do not see QBs bend their knees and explode up to throw the deep pass. Rather they're using their legs for balance/stability.

Regarding the rest of the tips, I agree w/ them wholeheartedly. Good job in compiling them.
Click to expand...



I like your points, is this not what Roger and Ljubicic do? Concentrating on the arm and shoulder guirdle, using max potential/ stored energy?
 
Roforot said:
I would like to challenge #3 and #4 in a friendly fashion as this is something I hear and see a lot on TV (he's getting a lot of power from his legs).

I submit as the basis for my challenge, the article in tennis magazine in June of 2006, where a coach talks about wheelchair bound players getting good pop on their strokes and that the most important thing your legs or knee can do is maintain a balanced platform.

In my personal experience, when I injured my knee, I ended up working on loopy second serves while doing rehab. After this I took lessons w/ a pro b/c I was concerned I would never have a good first serve as trying to bend knees or explode into the ball was causing pain. Instead of finding a different leg position, he had me serve doing absolutely nothing w/ my feet except keeping balanced. I now have a first and second serve that is as good (and perhaps more reliable) as before the injury!

Final part of challenge, in comparison to other sports like Americanfootball, I typically do not see QBs bend their knees and explode up to throw the deep pass. Rather they're using their legs for balance/stability.

Regarding the rest of the tips, I agree w/ them wholeheartedly. Good job in compiling them.
Click to expand...

I definitely see your side. In my experience, I see too much emphasis placed on a knee bend. So much so, that many players end up doing it improperly. They are actually losing power rather then gaining it.

The knee bend is a byproduct, a result, a response, to properly executing a fully stretched out front side. It is the portion that allows the body to remain in balance and also provide lengthened thrust (extension) for the serving motion.
 
I also understand what you are saying, and I have no doubt that your serves now are better than they were before. But that is not to say that you have the most power now that you could. I don't think power comes directly from knees or legs, but, as I said in the original post, a rapid flexion of the knees causes a more rapid acceleration of the racket arm, which does produce more power. I also know that many people do use their legs improperly, just as many intentionally jump on the serve, which also limits serve effictiveness. However, all of the best servers in the world have a healthy knee bend that aids in the rhythm, coil, and explosiveness of the serve.
 
TennsDog said:
I also understand what you are saying, and I have no doubt that your serves now are better than they were before. But that is not to say that you have the most power now that you could. I don't think power comes directly from knees or legs, but, as I said in the original post, a rapid flexion of the knees causes a more rapid acceleration of the racket arm, which does produce more power. I also know that many people do use their legs improperly, just as many intentionally jump on the serve, which also limits serve effictiveness. However, all of the best servers in the world have a healthy knee bend that aids in the rhythm, coil, and explosiveness of the serve.
Click to expand...

I never thought you meant that either.

{{{it is your weakness I am trying to find young one, muhahahahaha}}} :mrgreen:
 
Bungalo Bill said:
The knee bend is a byproduct, a result, a response, to properly executing a fully stretched out front side. It is the portion that allows the body to remain in balance and also provide lengthened thrust (extension) for the serving motion.
Click to expand...

This is my point or thinking now. I do not rec. serve straight or stifflegged. but I do not think about consciously flexing my knees, it just happens to keep me balanced during weight transfer. I also tend to focus on extending up to hit the ball and the legs straighten...

I'll concede that while out of action, I worked on smooth shoulder/arm motion. Adding more forceful thrust from the legs could add more oomph to my serve... but question is at my level could I time it to make it work w/out loss of precision? When I move past 4.0 level, it may be worth it, but now I get enough cheap points and my body doesn't hurt.
 
Leg Use

Two ideas regarding the use of legs on the serve.

While at the USPTA world convention about 8 years ago, I heard Luis Mederos (sp) the self-proclaimed leader in developing tennis players in Spain say this: "The legs make up 80% of the power in the serve." hmmm, I thought to myself. Since I can serve nearly 100 mph while serving on my knees, I guess I should be able to serve around 700 mph if I served using my legs right. WRONG. The legs contribute up about 7 to 12% of the service speed at best and if indeed the legs are used correctly. (Most recreational players don't even use the legs in a contributing fashion!) Think about this: even at 12% increase, if a player serves about 50 mph (using questionable form), he will increase this serve by a whopping 6 mph if he uses his legs in perfect harmony! That means he is now up to 56 mph! (Not going to intimidate too many opponents!)

However, a good server who uses proper swing patterns, body coil and angular momentum with their upper body can serve into the 100 mph range. Now use the legs and gain that 12% increase and you now go from 100 to 112 mph...or from 110 to 125 mph! This is significant at these speeds.

The other point I wanted to share: I took lessons from Craig Harter, a ATP pro out of Southern California when I was about 14 years old. (This was around 1974.) At that time, he and Roscoe Tanner had the fastest serves in the world recorded. (I believe it was 128 mph.) Craig was about 6'5" but used almost no leg bend or extension at all. Like Tanner, he used a forward lean and torque generated from the combination of body rotation and lateral tilt at the waist. (As opposed to arching back over the lumbar vert.)

Point is, the legs were there for balance, support, foundation, and friction (with the ground at the point of contact).

Conclusion: learn proper body and swing components, especially swing path with proper grip first. Add the legs as you look for subsequent power after the mastery of the swing.
 
The above are good points.

And at the risk of appearing to concede the argument, even if the legs don't contribute large sums of power to the serve, they are a part of an ideal serve. I think one would be hard-pressed to find a coach who would not mention a knee bend when teaching how to serve (even if it does happen naturally).
 
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