Want to fix your strokes? Playing 2x a week won't do it.

Most adult players are frozen at the same ability for decades. 3.5, etc.
They don't do any drill or practice, so they will never get better.
They will just keep playing their permanent game.

A small percentage of these people will realize tennis strokes are about repetition.
These people figure out that hitting lessons and drills will fix their flaws.

So last summer, I took lessons twice a week.
I learned just how flawed my strokes were, and just how much I needed to fix.
  • Too close to the ball, not extending arms
  • No legs, all arms.
  • Swinging way too hard
  • Wristy topspin with no depth and very low net clearance
  • Not following thru above my shoulder
  • Not doing unit turn
  • Not swinging out
  • Wrong grip for BH
  • Not turning for approach shot
The list goes on and on.....

Well, none of it really stuck.

I played indoor doubles all winter, which helped my volleys and serve.
But, when I started lessons again this summer, I was right back where I left off.
Much of list above was still an issue.

Playing twice a week will never fix your game.
But, even 2 lessons a week won't do it.

I'm now totally convinced that immersion is the key to permanent skills acquisition.
2 weeks ago, I decided to play as many days as physically possible this summer.
This means taking a hitting lesson literally every single day, if I can. ($3500)

I've done this for 14 of the last 15 days. (singles, doubles, rallying, lessons, serve hoppers)
I feel the strokes are finally beginning to creep over the old bad habits.
Each day, the new habit chips away at the old one. My coaches have noticed the difference.

You want your coaches tips to sink in? Drill them every day for 2 months straight.
I bet that will be more productive than one lesson a week spread over an entire year.


2x a week is probably enough to maintain your game.
You will never correct strokes playing 2x a week.
No competitive player on the planet has reached 5.0 by playing 2x a week.
Just casually playing tennis is not going to cut it.
There are countless people who play 5x a week and suck.
And they will die still sucking, and have atrocious looking serves, volleys, and overheads.

I am talking to get to the point where your strokes look like 4.5
Or maybe a 4.0 with inconsistent 4.5 strokes.

You can get to 4.0 and have ugly strokes and no coaching.
You just need to play for years and be consistent with your crap strokes.
There are many styles of 4.0
Some 4.0s are just super consistent 3.5 style players, so to speak (no offense, no net game, dink serve, etc) They bunt and slice and never miss. You miss. And you lose.
Other 4.0 have big pretty strokes, and the full package, but are inconsistent. This guy got coaching to get his good looking strokes.
So, it depends on what kind of player you aim to be.

Once you have your strokes, then go play 5x a week for consistency.
But, you will never get 4.5 looking strokes without coaching.
Maybe there are exceptions to the rule, but I'll play the odds.
There is just way to much that is simply unnatural that you would never do unless told.
And being told something is 1% of the solution. It takes MONTHS to make a habit.

I agree with the skiing analogy of concentrated time.

However, these are vastly different sports, and learning curves can't be compared.
Snowboarding is not a precision sport.
You don't wipe out if your elbow or head is changed by a few inches or degrees.
In tennis, that might mean you blast the ball over the fence.
Snowboard mechanics do not need to be strict.
Tennis needs to be surgeon caliber accurate.
You don't need a jogging coach.
You do need a tennis coach.

Fitness means nothing if you have junk strokes.
You can be an iron man and bunt the ball with a frying pan serve and have no backhand.
Mechanics are everything in tennis. Hence, coaching.

To me TTPS first couple years aren't the deal--it will be the 3rd or 4th. When he gets to 3.5, 4ish. What happens then? Assuming he stays devoted with time and resources, can he get off of 4.0?

I'm already at 3.5 In fact, I started this process already as a 3.5.
3 months later, I am now playing against 4.0s and often get to deuce, with some sets going to tie breaker.
My goal is to play at the 4.0 level. Refine my volleys, learn court positioning, etc.
But,that will be the end of the road for me. Getting to 4.5 would require sustained dedication that I am not willing to do (opportunity cost)
So, these discussions of getting to 4.5 or 5.0 are moot.
I am only speaking about what it takes to get from an untrained "raw" 3.5 to a "good looking" 4.0 with a full package game (good serve, good 2nd, good ROS, good approach, good volley, good overhead)
To be a slicer/hacker/junkball 4.0, you just need to play a lot for a lot of years (consistency beats pretty but unreliable strokes)

Oh, I will add another comment most of you will hate.
Even 6x a week is not enough.

At some point, when trying to correct decades old flawed habits,
you will need to hit more than once a day.

Just like the pros.

You want to wear the same shirt and sneakers as the pros.
Use the same rackets as the pros.

Guess what? Pros don't hit for one or two hours a day.
They hit several times a day, during their formative years.
This is why IMG exists.

There were a few days when I played or drilled 3x in a day.
Morning, afternoon, evening.

This is what it takes to build new habits.
New habits are not built in one hour a day.
 
Last edited:
100% agree, if you want to get better you have to play frequently, daily being ideal. If there is too much time between sessions you lose the effectiveness of those "ah hah" moments that propel your skill level forward. You'll spend your whole time out getting back to where you were at the end of your last session.
 
P

PittsburghDad

Guest
Most adult players are frozen at the same ability for decades. 3.5, etc.
They don't do any drill or practice, so they will never get better.
They will just keep playing their permanent game.

A small percentage of these people will realize tennis strokes are about repetition.
These people figure out that hitting lessons and drills will fix their flaws.

So last summer, I took lessons twice a week.
I learned just how flawed my strokes were, and just how much I needed to fix.
  • Too close to the ball, not extending arms
  • No legs, all arms.
  • Swinging way too hard
  • Wristy topspin with no depth and very low net clearance
  • Not following thru above my shoulder
  • Not doing unit turn
  • Not swinging out
  • Wrong grip for BH
  • Not turning for approach shot
The list goes on and on.....

Well, none of it really stuck.

I played indoor doubles all winter, which helped my volleys and serve.
But, when I started lessons again this summer, I was right back where I left off.
Much of list above was still an issue.

Playing twice a week will never fix your game.
But, even 2 lessons a week won't do it.

I'm now totally convinced that immersion is the key to permanent skills acquisition.
2 weeks ago, I decided to play as many days as physically possible this summer.
This means taking a hitting lesson literally every single day, if I can. ($3500)

I've done this for 14 of the last 15 days. (singles, doubles, rallying, lessons, serve hoppers)
I feel the strokes are finally beginning to creep over the old bad habits.
Each day, the new habit chips away at the old one. My coaches have noticed the difference.

You want your coaches tips to sink in? Drill them every day for 2 months straight.
I bet that will be more productive than one lesson a week spread over an entire year.
Playing more tennis, makes you a better tennis player! I feel very enlightened.
 

johnnyb

Semi-Pro
Immersion is a good thing, no doubt. But to me, as far as lessons go, the key is to remember to practice the skills you learned. Next session I start talking to people and forget to think about what I've learned.

One option is to write a to-do list with the items mentioned and bring it with you to the court. Each section you focus in one or two items and then check them. Or keep a journal.

Otherwise after receiving a lot of information it may be hard to remember everything.
 

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
Each day, the new habit chips away at the old one. My coaches have noticed the difference.
You have more than 1 coach? You seem to be loaded to throw away money like this.

Seriously...given your age, what is your ultimate goal with all this? Get to 5.0? Would that validate spending all this money and time?
 
Playing more tennis, makes you a better tennis player! I feel very enlightened.
LOL, you live in a tiny little junior's country club travel tournament private coaching bubble.
In the real world, people play once or twice a week, if lucky. Unless retired, and those guys are rarely getting any better. They're just holding on.

Play daily? You talk like it's common sense, but let's do a poll of how often TT posters actually play.
 
You have more than 1 coach? You seem to be loaded to throw away money like this.

Seriously...given your age, what is your ultimate goal with all this? Get to 5.0? Would that validate spending all this money and time?
I have more than one coach since availability is erratic.
In fact, I have 3 coaches I can contact for hitting drills/lessons.

My goal? To get better.
To get closer to my actual potential.
I never learned the right way to play.

Right now, I am evenly matched with 3.5 players
(Scored 5-5 today against a USTA 3.5, but also gave away tons of double faults)

By the end of this summer, I believe I'll be consistently beating 3.5 players.
I am drilling every aspect of the game, and will be practicing 2nd serves daily, and conditioning is also happening.
Also reducing errors in a big way

I would like to compete with 4.0 players.

As for spending, my grand total for 60 lessons so far has been $3000.
Chump change. That's like one month's rent or a 4 day vacation.
I got a year's worth of tennis lessons instead, averaging once a week.
Some guys have wasted that much on rackets, shirts , sneakers, and club dues.

But, much of that was wasted since it was only done 1-2x a week.
The next $3000 that will be spent in a concentrated period will yield permanent improvement.

You think the kids at IMG play tennis twice a week? I think not.
I played 1.5 hours this morning, and will be taking a lesson this evening.
Laugh all you want, but I'm getting better at tennis. Are you?
 
Last edited:
P

PittsburghDad

Guest
LOL, you live in a tiny little junior's country club travel tournament private coaching bubble.
In the real world, people play once or twice a week, if lucky. Unless retired, and those guys are rarely getting any better. They're just holding on.

Play daily? You talk like it's common sense, but let's do a poll of how often TT posters actually play.
I didn't say daily. I pointed out that you wrote an eighth grade term paper filled with drivel to say, "If you play more tennis, you will get better."

You're playing at like 2 point nothing brother. And playing daily. And paying thousands to play like a spaz. Those retirees you're mentioning...most of them would trounce you Chief.

But by all means, keep posting five threads a day about your latest epiphany. And lecturing everybody else about their shortcomings Like I said, entertaining enough.

(I've never been to a country club).
 
You will get better the more you play - but unfortunately athleticism is an upper bound. Some people could play every day and never make 4.5.
Agreed.

Anyone with basic athleticism and average DNA can get to 3.5 with garbage form and no lessons
Anyone who is 3.5 can become a weak 4.0 with coaching and drills.
After that, DNA becomes a factor.

I believe 4.0 is my ceiling, but I would like to hit my head on it.
 
Last edited:
You're playing at like 2 point nothing brother. And playing daily. And paying thousands to play like a spaz. Those retirees you're mentioning...most of them would trounce you Chief.
I have played daily for only 2 weeks. And I've made big leaps forward.

I just went 5-5 against a 3.5.
So, you just sound ignorant with comments like "You're a 2.0"

I play like a spaz? I'm a 2.0? Do you even play tennis?
I think it's time for you to post a video, Suresh.
 
Last edited:
P

PittsburghDad

Guest
I have played daily for only 2 weeks. And I've made big leaps forward.

I just went 5-5 against a 3.5.
So, you just sound ignorant with comments like "You're a 2.0"

I play like a spaz? Do you even play tennis?
I think it's time for you to post a video, Suresh.
I'm not good at all. My only connection to the game is as a tennis parent. And yet I still have much cleaner strokes than you're vids man. Yes "spaz" is the word that comes to mind when viewing the vids you so proudly brag about.

I also don't post thread after thread telling others how to play. And the depth of your wisdom is "play more tennis" in 7600 words. When I first came to these boards seven years ago, I spent the vast majority of my time sorting through the 95% nonsense threads, (your type of nine threads a day I HAD AN EPIPHANY threads), and really learned a ton from some really experienced, knowledgeable posters here. I'm very grateful.

You have made the decision as a newbie to inundate the board with nonsense. And on some of your threads good, solid, give a darn tennis folk have tried to help you out and you have basically responded "Shut UP. I HAVE IT ALL FIGURED OUT. LOOK AT MY ARM EXTENSION blah blah." Good on you. Go hard.

Now if you are actually trolling, great work. You're very committed.

And on a side note Rafa is THROTTLING Stan. #NOTASPAZ
 
LOL, you live in a tiny little junior's country club travel tournament private coaching bubble.
In the real world, people play once or twice a week, if lucky. Unless retired, and those guys are rarely getting any better. They're just holding on.
@PittsburghDad lives in one part of the tennis world. You live in a different region [metaphorically speaking].

Some people on this forum can relate to PD because they have either gone through the experience themselves or have kids who went/are going through it. I cannot easily relate because I did not play juniors and learned how to play on my own [HS coach fixed most of my glaring problems].

You obviously cannot relate either but that doesn't mean PD is living in an alternate universe.

I agree that the majority of people I know play a couple of times per week. I don't think that was the point of PD's posts, though.

Play daily? You talk like it's common sense, but let's do a poll of how often TT posters actually play.
Where did PD write one had to play daily? He didn't. @pnw_hardcourt was the one who wrote that. And he didn't write one had to play daily. He cited it as an ideal.
 
And yet I still have much cleaner strokes than you're vids man.
Time to post a video or STFU, Suresh.

Multiple people have "liked" this thread.
So, if you don't like my threads, put me on ignore, and buzz off.

For people learning tennis in the real world, my advice may be helpful.

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, I have ever played with wants to be a better player.
Yet, NOT ONE person I have played with in the last year has played daily for a concentrated period. Therefore, the advice is valid and non-obvious.
 
I have more than one coach since availability is erratic.
In fact, I have 3 coaches I can contact for hitting drills/lessons.

My goal? To get better.
To get closer to my actual potential.
I never learned the right way to play.
Which is a great goal, one many of us are striving for. Why you have to be so caustic about it is puzzling.

Right now, I am evenly matched with 3.5 players
(Scored 5-5 today against a USTA 3.5, but also gave away tons of double faults)

By the end of this summer, I believe I'll be consistently beating 3.5 players.
I am drilling every aspect of the game, and will be practicing 2nd serves daily, and conditioning is also happening.
Also reducing errors in a big way

I would like to compete with 4.0 players.
For someone who professes not to care about NTRP, you cite NTRP a lot. Your best bet to get wide exposure to many different players would be to join USTA but you obviously have some bias against that.

As for spending, my grand total for 60 lessons so far has been $3000.
Chump change. That's like one month's rent or a 4 day vacation.
I got a year's worth of tennis lessons instead, averaging once a week.
Some guys have wasted that much on rackets, shirts , sneakers, and club dues.
For many people, $3K is not "chump change". And yet you accuse @PittsburghDad of living in a bubble?

As for what is considered "waste", that's in the eye [or the wallet] of the beholder.

But, much of that was wasted since it was only done 1-2x a week.
The next $3000 that will be spent in a concentrated period will yield permanent improvement.

You think the kids at IMG play tennis twice a week? I think not.
I played 1.5 hours this morning, and will be taking a lesson this evening.
Laugh all you want, but I'm getting better at tennis. Are you?
No one is faulting you for your desire to improve.
 
P

PittsburghDad

Guest
Time to post a video or STFU, Suresh.

Multiple people have "liked" this thread.
So, if you don't like my threads, then put me on ignore.
I don't have the urge to prove myself as you so painfully obviously do. I said "I'm a terrible player". I just have cleaner unspazzy shots than you. You have 5000 vids up. In not one do you hit a clean topspin shot. Not one. Holy cow.

But you have nine threads a day telling others how to tennis.

Side note. Stan making his last stand!!! What a warrior to the end. #NOTASPAZ
 
Agreed.

Anyone with basic athleticism and average DNA can get to 3.5 with garbage form and no lessons
Previously you wrote "anyone with a pulse can make it to 3.5". Now you throw in the caveat about athleticism and DNA. At least you now recognize that not everyone will make it to 3.5. Though why you continue to denigrate entire swathes of people is noteworthy.

Anyone who is 3.5 can become a weak 4.0 with coaching and drills.
After that, DNA becomes a factor.
DNA is always a factor. It's also something you can't change so I don't worry about it.

I believe 4.0 is my ceiling, but I would like to hit my head on it.
My advice is to forget about your ceiling and just work on the improvement process. Maybe you'll top out at 4.0 but maybe not. Why limit yourself?

If I had to bet, I'd wager my ceiling is 5.0. But if I can make it to 5.0, I'm not going to stop trying to improve.
 
I have played daily for only 2 weeks. And I've made big leaps forward.

I just went 5-5 against a 3.5.
So, you just sound ignorant with comments like "You're a 2.0"

I play like a spaz? I'm a 2.0? Do you even play tennis?
I think it's time for you to post a video, Suresh.
How @PittsburghDad plays has nothing to do with your improvement. He's already said he's not a good player so what would such a video prove?

If you scored 5-5 vs a 3.5, that's a reasonable indicator of your skill [along with the 4-6 5-7 vs a 4.0]. You're likely on your way to 4.0 with the dedication you've shown.
 
Correct. I said it. That is the point is this thread.

Want to fix your strokes? Playing 2x a week won't do it.

Everyone wants to get better. Almost no one gets better. Why do you think that is?

I will make more progress in 3 months, than most 3.5 players make in a DECADE.
Take that to the bank, and wait for my October video.
Interesting: the software stripped out the cursing.

As I mentioned previously, my bank does not take promises as deposits.

As for your statements, you are probably correct because you have the dedication, time, and resources to pull it off. I'm not sure why you have to be so defensive about it.
 
I think I understand the disconnect.

PDaddy is in a whole different tennis world, as you stated.
My advice and insights are so obvious and already practiced his world.
(His daughters, as he doesn't actually play tennis, never has)

To be clear, I am dispensing advice to people in my situation only.
Let it be known that ALL advice I post is directed strictly towards 3.5 trying to get to 4.0
 
P

PittsburghDad

Guest
I think I understand the disconnect.

PDaddy is in a whole different tennis world, as you stated.
My advice and insights are so obvious and already practiced his world.
(His daughters, as he doesn't actually play tennis, never has)

To be clear, I am dispensing advice to people in my situation only.
Let it be known that ALL advice I post is directed strictly towards 3.5 trying to get to 4.0
Come on. Post the vid again right here and open. You aren't in the position to be lecturing "people trying to get to 4.0".
 
Proposal:

I will post some video of my next singles play, and the forum can decide if I am 2.0 or 3.5
If I am 2.0, as you suggest, I will stop posting for a month.
If I am 3.5, you will stop posting for a month
 
Last edited:
I think I understand the disconnect.

PDaddy is in a whole different tennis world, as you stated.
My advice and insights are so obvious and already practiced his world.
(His daughters, as he doesn't actually play tennis, never has)
I don't understand this last sentence: are you saying @PittsburghDad's daughter never went through the learning/improvement process? Because that's not the impression I got from his writing.

To be clear, I am dispensing advice to people in my situation only.
Let it be known that ALL advice I post is directed strictly towards 3.5 trying to get to 4.0
So noted.
 
No, it means his daughter is a trained tennis player.
She is not the target audience of my banal advice, as she is on a whole different plane.

PDad has never played tennis.
 

bubbatennis

Rookie
Have you ever recorded your hitting/playing sessions to see what you may be doing wrong with your strokes/serves/etc? I firmly believe you have to see yourself play. Most people think they are doing everything right when in actuality they are not.
 
P

PittsburghDad

Guest
No, it means his daughter is a trained tennis player.
She is not the target audience of my banal advice, as she is on a whole different plane.

PDad has never played tennis.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKI.....wait a second I agree totally. Don't do that. Us being rational towards eachother shifts the paradigm too much.
 

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
Laugh all you want, but I'm getting better at tennis. Are you?
I was not laughing. It's good if you have that much money to spend. Considering the money you are spending, I hope you are getting better. I'm 47 and playing more for fun and fitness (while I hope I can get better as I age, realistically it will be a losing competition between my improving technical skills and worsening physical abilities...age is not just a number). I'm not your competition.
 
All my advice is directed to 3.5 only.

At 3.5, improved mechanics will Trump physical decay. Every 3.5 has been schooled by some 60 year old who never misses, angles shots, lobs, drop shots, never DF's, etc.
 

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
All my advice is directed to 3.5 only.

At 3.5, improved mechanics will Trump physical decay. Every 3.5 has been schooled by some 60 year old who never misses, angles shots, lobs, drop shots, never DF's, etc.
If you want to stay 3.5 then why take coaching? However, as you go up in the ranks, physical skills will matter because the skill levels will also rise correspondingly. Anyway, from your vids, you look like a young guy. So you have a lot of time before worrying about physical decay.
 

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
Answer in post #9
I understood that. I'm just disagreeing with you stating that improving technical skills will trump physical decay. If you improve your technical skills then you will start moving higher up in the ranks from a 3.5 to a 4.0 to a 4.5...etc. You're not going to stay a 3.5. As you move higher your skills alone cannot trump any physical decay, since you will not be facing 3.5s anymore. You'll be facing similarly skilled peers, and so the physical breakdown factor does play a role. Age will matter as your levels go higher, since a older player cannot play a grind it out style against a younger player with similar skills. You'll have to change your game to play more efficiently and try and finish points more quickly.

Anyway it's not an issue at your age. At your age, given the money and time you're spending, if you keep improving, you should have quite a few years where your skill level (even as you move up) should be good enough to win a lot of matches without worrying about strength/stamina.
 
I am talking about measuring yourself against yourself.

IMHO, a 50 year old 3.5 who has never taken a lesson in his life
will lose to his future 55 year old self who takes lessons, practice, and drill for 5 years.

That is what I mean by improving mechanics will trump physical decline.
Most untrained players are using a small fraction of their physical ability.
 
Stamina matters at 3.5

I played a USTA 3.5 today in singles and I was dying towards the end of the first set.
I stopped attacking short balls, as my tank was on zero.

Of course, I've played 14 days in a row, so I might need a rest.
But, I love being pushed past failure. It's like a drug, and the body adapts.
 
S

Stupendous1HBH

Guest
I feel like I have potential to hit a legit 5.0 however I only play like once a week and sometimes go longer than that so I'm suck at the 4.5 level for the most part. I've noticed recently I'm messing up on simple things as well that need corrected.
 
At once a week, you should expect errors.
Pros play more than once a week, and make errors.
To not expect errors ....is to not understand how this game works.

I only know one 4.5.
He said his biggest roadblock is conditioning.
But, maybe some aspect of his game is also flawed and he doesn't know it
 

atp2015

Hall of Fame
Playing a lot (more than 3-4 times a week), for someone trying to get better, is not a good strategy if you already have bad habits.
muscles and other body cells need time to recover and won't produce quality when tired.
The same thing applies for brain cells, without rest, they send old signals and you will continue with bad habits while adding good ones.
Enough rest and recovery is essential. At least a day or two after a very rigorous session.
The points are based on data collected on myself using a tennis sensor. I'm not kidding.
Tennis is similar to sexual activity. Enhanced performance needs gaps in between.

My tennis rating is up(rhs, fluidity of strokes and spin) when I hit after 2 or more days of rest. I don't decide how well i played based on score because opponents are different and they may be having a good or a bad day. Always on objective sensor reading. My serve went through a major upgrade after a two week gap once. I was thinking about the proper serve motion and going through the ideal sequence of moves in my mind but was not able to hit because of various non tennis reasons. After two weeks, I only remembered the right habit and forgot the bad ones.
 
Last edited:

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
IMHO, a 50 year old 3.5 who has never taken a lesson in his life
will lose to his future 55 year old self who takes lessons, practice, and drill for 5 years.
You have these extreme examples :)

I can spin it around the same way. A 55 year old who is reasonably fit, still athletic, has good instincts and feel for the game, is self taught, will be better than a 50 year old who has spent a lot of money on coaching, but has no instincts or feel for the game.

I don't disagree that playing better regardless of your age or regardless of wins and losses, will give you a certain satisfaction in doing something reasonably well. Where we disagree is that you feel paid coaching is needed for everyone to keep improving in Tennis to get to that level of playing reasonably well with solid consistent strokes. I and many others don't. I feel that self-learning, experimenting to find out what works best for you is more important than a lot of the advice you'll get from others. You'll definitely get some good tips, but without knowing your own game and what works for you, you'll be hard pressed to understand what those good tips are because the same tips that work for one might not for another and vice versa.

TLDR; If paid coaching is what works for you, go for it. Don't assume that is the correct answer for everyone else too.
 
Playing daily for someone trying to get better is not a good strategy if you already have bad habits.
muscles and body cells need time to recover and won't produce quality when tired.
The same thing applies for brain cells, without rest, they send old signals and you will continue with bad habits while adding good ones.
Enough rest and recovery is essential. At least a day after a rigorous session.
The points are based on data collected on myself using a tennis sensor. I'm not kidding.
Tennis is similar to sexual activity. Enhanced performance needs gaps in between.
Point taken, but I am practicing correct form under a coach.
If I tire out, I take a break. I feel great.

I am now seeing changes in the strokes over the last 2 weeks (that stick)

I have already proven to myself that 2x a week does not retain.
(No great player got great by playing 2 hours a week)

So, thanks, but I'm good.
Everyone else, take my suggestion with a grain of salt.

All I know is what works for me.
 
TLDR; If paid coaching is what works for you, go for it. Don't assume that is the correct answer for everyone else too.
Sorry, you're simply wrong.

There is a reason the wealthy pay $250/hr for private tutoring of all kinds.

There is no substitute for 1-1 feedback on every shot.
There is no substitute for executing a shot correctly 50 times in a row.
Sure, there are other ways to get better, but there is no better way to get better.
That is why there does not exist a single pro player who has not and does not actively get coaching.

Good luck with your progress!
 
I can spin it around the same way. A 55 year old who is reasonably fit, still athletic, has good instincts and feel for the game, is self taught, will be better than a 50 year old who has spent a lot of money on coaching, but has no instincts or feel for the game.
No **** that someone suffering from stage-4 pancreatic cancer who gets lessons daily
will lose to a 25 year old MLB pitcher who has never gotten a lesson.

People here don't understand basic science.
Have you ever heard of control vs. experiment?

Who is better off?
A 55 year old who is reasonably fit, still athletic, has good instincts and feel for the game, is self taught...
or
A 55 year old who is reasonably fit, still athletic, has good instincts and feel for the game, and gets private coaching every day?

It's pretty obvious. The treatment here is practice/drills under a coach. Everything else stays the same.

Only on this forum of clowns is this even debatable.
I'm done having this debate.
Don't want lessons? DON'T TAKE EM.
But, you're a fool to think they wouldn't help you.

Good luck with your progress!
 

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
TTPS...calm down bro. No need to insult others.

As for your question, I honestly don't know. Let's even assume a top notch coach is the one coaching in your particular example so as to help make your case. IMO, a lot of coaching is generalized for the masses, whereas specific things that work for you are things that you have to find out for yourself. You might be in with the perfect coach who can understand perfectly what works for you, but that's a rare case. In general it's difficult for the coach because he can't give personalized instruction to a lot of students. Plus even the personalized instruction is something he might feel is best for the student but it might not be the case. You have to find out those answers for yourself more than from any coach.

As for even pros needing coaching, I agree they get it, but a lot of the coaching is also about mental strength and just offering some differing viewpoints than technical. Do you think any of Fed's coaches are better equipped than he is to help correct any technical flaws that he might have. Even Jack Nicklaus said that once about Tiger, when Tiger was changing coaches and constantly fiddling with his swing, that only Tiger could help himself. I forgot who, but one of the coaches for a top pro said once that a coach at that level was more a shrink, a friend to vent at and a hitting partner than about any technical stuff.
 
P

PittsburghDad

Guest
Wow. Your coaches sold you well.

Tennis is one of the only sports that does this.

Golfers take some lessons and then go play. For whatever reason tennis players decided that need spoon-fed every little piece of minutae.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
Golfers take some lessons and then go play. For whatever reason tennis players decided that need spoon-fed every little piece of minutae.
Actually MOST adult tennis players who have full time jobs that I know might take a lesson weekly and then work on what they learned a couple of nights during the week to reinforce the learning.

Ttps is the only player I know who needs coaching in a spoon fed way.
 

J J

Rookie
The best juniors train/play 6 days a week. One day off. Very much planned out in terms of matches vs practice etc... If not 100% take more days off. Back to 100% back to 6 days a week.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
Wow. Your coaches sold you well.

Golfers take some lessons and then go play. For whatever reason tennis players decided that need spoon-fed every little piece of minutae.
Says the delusional HYPOCRITE whose daughter has gotten 100x more coaching and clinics than I. Cognitive dissonance is strong.

I've broken par in golf after 4-5 years of playing. Never took a single lesson.
Golf is like crayons or checkers compared to tennis, but that is a conversation for another day.

I've made more improvements in 50 hours than the last 20 years combined.

Also, it is important to note my advice ONLY applies to 3.5 trying to get to 4.0
The higher level you are, the more your mechanics are already sound.
None of this conversation applies to a 4.0 or 4.5. They have an entirely different set of parameters.

I'm off to my lesson.
 
Last edited:
Actually MOST adult tennis players who have full time jobs that I know might take a lesson weekly and then work on what they learned a couple of nights during the week to reinforce the learning.
.
That is why MOST adults never improve and stay at the same level for DECADES.
Keep buying those new rackets!
 
Top