Want to fix your strokes? Playing 2x a week won't do it.

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

If I had $3,500 to spend in two months I'd gladly do the same, even if I weren't able to move up by 0.5. I'd have paid money to know where my upper limit is...

Madame Griselda on the boardwalk will read your palm for $50 and tell you:

Madame Griselda [in a heavy Eastern European accent]: "Aah; very interestink. You have, how do you say, very long lifeline but very short patients. You need to come to the net more, dahling; end points more quicker, yes?"

Bender: "You got all that from reading my palm?"

Madame Griselda [switching to native Brooklyn English]: "Of course not! I saw you play down at the park yesterday! Gimme another $50 and I'll tell you how to fix that serve of yours!"

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

You can laugh all you want. I am getting better at tennis each day. Are you?

I second what @mad dog1 wrote. In fact, I and others have posted multiple times encouraging you on your journey of improvement. But you continue to "bite the hand that feeds you" by insulting anyone who disagrees with you even as they are trying to help, in a sort of "me against the world" mentality, as evidenced by your "I am getting better..." comment.

You're to be commended on your dedication to improve; not all of us have that dedication [nor time nor money]. You don't understand that the negative comments you get aren't because of your dedication; it's how you treat other people.

 

[GuyClinch]

You're to be commended on your dedication to improve; not all of us have that dedication [nor time nor money]. You don't understand that the negative comments you get aren't because of your dedication; it's how you treat other people.

I don't like the fact that he makes up all this baloney about the tennis playing population - despite never having played in any competitive situations against that said population..

3.5s do x and y and z etc. Its like the click bait articles you see on the internet. Why everyone loves Beyonce! Click here.. But I don't love Beyonce..
Annoying.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I don't like the fact that he makes up all this baloney about the tennis playing population - despite never having played in any competitive situations against that said population..

3.5s do x and y and z etc. Its like the click bait articles you see on the internet. Why everyone loves Beyonce! Click here.. But I don't love Beyonce..
Annoying.

Who is "Beyonce"?

Yeah, I agree: his "100% positive" statements about various groups are puzzling.

 

[LeeD]

Beyonce is someone we'd all love to love just once........

 

[ChaelAZ]

42.4% of the time I am hitting as a high 3.5, while 60% of the time I hit 4.0, and then 7.6% of time on court is above that even.

 

[Drmd]

Playing more tennis, makes you a better tennis player! I feel very enlightened.

But you're wrong. You can come to my club and I'll introduce you to a dozen players that have been playing for 20 years who would get beat by anyone who trained for a few months. Playing more tennis does not make you a better player. Training,practicing, drilling.. developing fundamentals makes you a better player.

 

[PittsburghDad]

But you're wrong. You can come to my club and I'll introduce you to a dozen players that have been playing for 20 years who would get beat by anyone who trained for a few months. Playing more tennis does not make you a better player. Training,practicing, drilling.. developing fundamentals makes you a better player.

I get what you're saying. And agree. It's the old argument for why the 10000 hour rule is oversimplified. We've all driven much more than that. Few of us are expert drivers. The practice parameters weren't there.

 

[GuyClinch]

But you're wrong. You can come to my club and I'll introduce you to a dozen players that have been playing for 20 years who would get beat by anyone who trained for a few months. Playing more tennis does not make you a better player. Training,practicing, drilling.. developing fundamentals makes you a better player.

Playing alot of tennis is necessary for improvement for most - that does not mean its sufficient. It is probably the best thing you can do for your tennis game though.. Especially if you can vary the competition..

No amount of practice is going to make up for vast differences in athleticism in tennis anyway.. An 80 year old man is never going to beat a shortstop who just picked up tennis a few weeks ago. The athleticism gap is too great. Most of the time guys playing 20 years are on the downside athleticism wise and like LeeD - it starts to creep over into your tennis..

 

[LeeD]

Playing alot of tennis is necessary for improvement for most - that does not mean its sufficient. It is probably the best thing you can do for your tennis game though.. Especially if you can vary the competition..

No amount of practice is going to make up for vast differences in athleticism in tennis anyway.. An 80 year old man is never going to beat a shortstop who just picked up tennis a few weeks ago. The athleticism gap is too great. Most of the time guys playing 20 years are on the downside athleticism wise and like LeeD - it starts to creep over into your tennis..

I didn't start tennis until age 24.
By then, I'd accruied TWO major tib/fib breaks, needing more than 3 pins in each, TWO broken collarbones, and one shoulder separation of the left side, me lefty in tennis. I stated tennis to rehab my second tib/fib break, which still has 6 pins, a foot of wound wire, and 2 plates. Was in a several casts for 13 months, couldn't run after two year's after the break.

 

[jimmy0slams]

Most adult players are frozen at the same ability for decades. 3.5, etc.
They don't do any drill or practice, so they will never get better.
They will just keep playing their permanent game.

A small percentage of these people will realize tennis strokes are about repetition.
These people figure out that hitting lessons and drills will fix their flaws.

So last summer, I took lessons twice a week.
I learned just how flawed my strokes were, and just how much I needed to fix.

• Too close to the ball, not extending arms
• No legs, all arms.
• Swinging way too hard
• Wristy topspin with no depth and very low net clearance
• Not following thru above my shoulder
• Not doing unit turn
• Not swinging out
• Wrong grip for BH
• Not turning for approach shot

The list goes on and on.....

Well, none of it really stuck.

I played indoor doubles all winter, which helped my volleys and serve.
But, when I started lessons again this summer, I was right back where I left off.
Much of list above was still an issue.

Playing twice a week will never fix your game.
But, even 2 lessons a week won't do it.

I'm now totally convinced that immersion is the key to permanent skills acquisition.
2 weeks ago, I decided to play as many days as physically possible this summer.
This means taking a hitting lesson literally every single day, if I can. ($3500)

I've done this for 14 of the last 15 days. (singles, doubles, rallying, lessons, serve hoppers)
I feel the strokes are finally beginning to creep over the old bad habits.
Each day, the new habit chips away at the old one. My coaches have noticed the difference.

You want your coaches tips to sink in? Drill them every day for 2 months straight.
I bet that will be more productive than one lesson a week spread over an entire year.

Thats great if you have the time, some of us have jobs and kids like ...

 

[Surion]

Most adult players are frozen at the same ability for decades. 3.5, etc.
They don't do any drill or practice, so they will never get better.
They will just keep playing their permanent game.

A small percentage of these people will realize tennis strokes are about repetition.
These people figure out that hitting lessons and drills will fix their flaws.

So last summer, I took lessons twice a week.
I learned just how flawed my strokes were, and just how much I needed to fix.

• Too close to the ball, not extending arms
• No legs, all arms.
• Swinging way too hard
• Wristy topspin with no depth and very low net clearance
• Not following thru above my shoulder
• Not doing unit turn
• Not swinging out
• Wrong grip for BH
• Not turning for approach shot

The list goes on and on.....

Well, none of it really stuck.

I played indoor doubles all winter, which helped my volleys and serve.
But, when I started lessons again this summer, I was right back where I left off.
Much of list above was still an issue.

Playing twice a week will never fix your game.
But, even 2 lessons a week won't do it.

I'm now totally convinced that immersion is the key to permanent skills acquisition.
2 weeks ago, I decided to play as many days as physically possible this summer.
This means taking a hitting lesson literally every single day, if I can. ($3500)

I've done this for 14 of the last 15 days. (singles, doubles, rallying, lessons, serve hoppers)
I feel the strokes are finally beginning to creep over the old bad habits.
Each day, the new habit chips away at the old one. My coaches have noticed the difference.

You want your coaches tips to sink in? Drill them every day for 2 months straight.
I bet that will be more productive than one lesson a week spread over an entire year.

You are so wrong again.

I am playing once or twice per week and I do all of the stuff you mentioned correctly. I just watched the pros and play tennis, combined with some talent it's all you need.

No coaching required unless your goal is to become a 5.5 or whatever and even that is achievable without a coach.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

You are so wrong again.

I am playing once or twice per week and I do all of the stuff you mentioned correctly. I just watched the pros and play tennis, combined with some talent it's all you need.

No coaching required unless your goal is to become a 5.5 or whatever and even that is achievable without a coach.

Post a video of your strokes

 

[Surion]

Post a video of your strokes

Why should I?

I'm not interested in being seen by strangers who post crap online.

 

[atp2015]

How's strangers watching your video different than strangers looking at your shots when you are out on a court? (Assuming your shots arr more than shadow swings and do leave the living room)

 

[ChaelAZ]

You claim you've learned to play at a presumably decent level by simply watching TV. Prove it

*Skip to the bottom if ya want the summary*

Here. I'll put myself out there for you. Pretty typical player I think, and a typical hit. Of course all the two hit rallies and shanks are removed here, but overall we are usually around 4-10 balls before error.

I started as a 3.0 self-rated about 6 years ago, but moved to 3.5 quick mostly because of athletic ability (I played competitive racquetball and college volleyball). I ended up playing 4.0 within about another year though I was never bumped in rating (long story, but I am still rated 3.5C). Haven't actually played leagues in years but I hit and play matches with a variety of levels of players, from newbies to pros.

I am pretty much self-coached. The difference between having a good coach and self-coaching is, it took me years to improve myself that would have been maybe a year of work had I had a coach.

The slow progression: I had to first learn what I was looking for in strokes, then research ways to improve on issues I had/have, then find someone who would actually want to practice to improve instead of just hitting and playing, then continually evaluate and try to improve on my own self-coaching. I've said before though, the added benefit for players who take this route is they end up with a good understanding of what works for them. A lot of the time is spent sorting through all the BS online that is more marketing and selling of technique and tips over substantive information you can actually use.

Some of this was for coaching my sons, helping with Jr's and helping coach high school players. I do better at being able to teach than to personally apply techniques, but my own progression is tied into all the research and learning I have done. I retire soon and will be starting a USPTA journey.

I use a lot of video to look at mechanics and such. A LOT of video. That works for me but might not for others.

So I think to the point of improving just hitting vs. coaching, the first thing would be is a player actually practicing to improve? Then how do they practice to improve (just playing in matches, individually, or with a coach)? Then how often are they out and how much time is devoted to improving. My observation is this:

• Some players have a progression limit based on interest and, more so, physical ability.
• Some players can continue to improve slowly through simple match play
• Some players can continue to improve through self-coached practice
• Most players will improve while under the guidance of a good coach.

I think the above is kind of in the order of speed of progression too - from no progression or super-slow progression, to having a coach who can help move a player along quicker. To me much of the improvement boils down to the individual so much you can make the generalized statements like the OP's initial post. Everyone is different in how the choose to play and progress.

I used to play 3-5 times a week. Last few years I only get out on weekends and maybe once during the week, so progress has slowed, but still happens.

TLDR: I think the OP is applying his own experience too broadly and incorrectly over all 3.5 players, and players in general.

Biggest thing in all this though, I need better fitness and footwork more than anything to progress.

 

[atp2015]

If anyone thinks they have great shots and play good without being coached, watch a video of you playing.
If you don't look like a big yuck, you have a really big chance of winning the next million bucks powerball lottery.

 

[atp2015]

*Skip to the bottom if ya want the summary*

Here. I'll put myself out there for you. Pretty typical player I think, and a typical hit. Of course all the two hit rallies and shanks are removed here, but overall we are usually around 4-10 balls before error.

I started as a 3.0 self-rated about 6 years ago, but moved to 3.5 quick mostly because of athletic ability (I played competitive racquetball and college volleyball). I ended up playing 4.0 within about another year though I was never bumped in rating (long story, but I am still rated 3.5C). Haven't actually played leagues in years but I hit and play matches with a variety of levels of players, from newbies to pros.

I am pretty much self-coached. The difference between having a good coach and self-coaching is, it took me years to improve myself that would have been maybe a year of work had I had a coach.

The slow progression: I had to first learn what I was looking for in strokes, then research ways to improve on issues I had/have, then find someone who would actually want to practice to improve instead of just hitting and playing, then continually evaluate and try to improve on my own self-coaching. I've said before though, the added benefit for players who take this route is they end up with a good understanding of what works for them. A lot of the time is spent sorting through all the BS online that is more marketing and selling of technique and tips over substantive information you can actually use.

Some of this was for coaching my sons, helping with Jr's and helping coach high school players. I do better at being able to teach than to personally apply techniques, but my own progression is tied into all the research and learning I have done. I retire soon and will be starting a USPTA journey.

I use a lot of video to look at mechanics and such. A LOT of video. That works for me but might not for others.

So I think to the point of improving just hitting vs. coaching, the first thing would be is a player actually practicing to improve? Then how do they practice to improve (just playing in matches, individually, or with a coach)? Then how often are they out and how much time is devoted to improving. My observation is this:

• Some players have a progression limit based on interest and, more so, physical ability.
• Some players can continue to improve slowly through simple match play
• Some players can continue to improve through self-coached practice
• Most players will improve while under the guidance of a good coach.

I think the above is kind of in the order of speed of progression too - from no progression or super-slow progression, to having a coach who can help move a player along quicker. To me much of the improvement boils down to the individual so much you can make the generalized statements like the OP's initial post. Everyone is different in how the choose to play and progress.

I used to play 3-5 times a week. Last few years I only get out on weekends and maybe once during the week, so progress has slowed, but still happens.

TLDR: I think the OP is applying his own experience too broadly and incorrectly over all 3.5 players, and players in general.

Biggest thing in all this though, I need better fitness and footwork more than anything to progress.

The biggest difference between coaching lessons and self-learning is time?

Yes, it's in a simplistic way. Unless the guy taking lessons is a low wage worker, the cost of self learning is higher in most markets.
Even if you are not running your own business, people who put in extra effort at work get higher bonus, bigger annual raise etc which could be a lot more than lesson costs.

 

[GuyClinch]

I started as a 3.0 self-rated about 6 years ago, but moved to 3.5 quick mostly because of athletic ability (I played competitive racquetball and college volleyball). I ended up playing 4.0 within about another year though I was never bumped in rating (long story, but I am still rated 3.5C). Haven't actually played leagues in years but I hit and play matches with a variety of levels of players, from newbies to pros.

Nice tennis. I think roughly 1NTRP improvement is great for rec players who pick it up later in life. A coach might speed your progression to 4.0 - but you are already a strong 3.5..who guys invite to play up. Nice..

 

[atp2015]

There could be players out there who have become better players by following a "watch and learn" technique without real-time correction and feedback from a coach (or someone acting like a coach).
If they have done it, the only thing it really proves is that they have spent too much time re-inventing the wheel and spending money more than what was necessary (indirectly by not earning what they could have by working on their business).
Do you think it shows/proves anything else?

 

[Mark Asher]

Wow, this is a confusing thread with a lot of bickering going on. I don't even see what there is to argue about. Clearly to improve the following things will help:

- practicing
- playing
- coaching
- increasing fitness

Can you improve without coaching? Of course, but you will hit a wall at some point and find further improvement difficult. It's been a long time since I played on my high school tennis team, but I got to that level on my own. I was probably a strong 3.5 player at that level, perhaps 4.0. I had two private lessons when I was 12 and that was it for formal instruction. I just played a lot growing up and practiced serving and hit against a wall. That got my game up enough to make the high school team.

Over the next 15 years I probably improved my game a bit, but not by much, really. Then in my early 30s I got tired of it, my tennis friends all moved, and I got interested in golf so that became my sport.

Now I'm back at 58 and loving tennis again. I practice every day, usually for at least two hours. It's my trip to the gym, so to speak. I do it for health reasons, but as a bonus I enjoy it.

And in some ways I'm playing better than ever! I don't have the court coverage I used to have, but these new rackets really pound the ball -- I used a wood racket in high school. I'm learning to hit a two-hander and it's firmed up my backhand side. There's a wealth of tips on Youtube that really are helpful. And I can videotape my strokes which reveals a lot. My goal is to get to a very solid 4.0 game, maybe 4.5. I plan on getting some professional coaching -- in fact my old high school doubles partner is a teaching pro. I might just ring him up.

 

[GuyClinch]

Can you improve without coaching? Of course, but you will hit a wall at some point and find further improvement difficult. It's been a long time since I played on my high school tennis team, but I got to that level on my own. I was probably a strong 3.5 player at that level, perhaps 4.0. I had two private lessons when I was 12 and that was it for formal instruction. I just played a lot growing up and practiced serving and hit against a wall. That got my game up enough to make the high school team.

You will hit a wall with coaching though. No offense but if you are 58 and going against a league playing 4.5 23 year old in singles you are probably going to lose. Guy will just run you around.. Are there some 60s year old that's could be a 4.5 - maybe but not many..

So let's not pretend all players are hopeless without extensive coaching or that coaching gets you through a wall. Coaching just makes it easier to get to your own 'wall'.

 

[ChaelAZ]

If they have done it, the only thing it really proves is that they have spent too much time re-inventing the wheel and spending money more than what was necessary (indirectly by not earning what they could have by working on their business)

So coaching is the best way to make sure you save time...so you can work more...so you have the money to spend on coaching.

I have more faith in players they can learn simple stuff by reading or watching lessons, and apply it for recreational improvements in their game. See it all the time on court and as an educator. I am not discounting coaching and lessons, but I am for self-instruction and playing with others who want to improve, which is the majority of players I know.

Guess everyone's experience is different.

 

[Mark Asher]

You will hit a wall with coaching though. No offense but if you are 58 and going against a league playing 4.5 23 year old in singles you are probably going to lose. Guy will just run you around.. Are there some 60s year old that's could be a 4.5 - maybe but not many..

So let's not pretend all players are hopeless without extensive coaching or that coaching gets you through a wall. Coaching just makes it easier to get to your own 'wall'.

Oh I agree. There are leagues for 55+ though and I think even 60+. It's not really about beating other players but about just enjoying playing better. I need coaching to help me know what my flaws are so I can work on them. I don't plan on getting more than 5-10 lessons.

I also think that Youtube tennis lessons combined with filming my own strokes can do a lot for me. I know what to do but I don't always know what I'm doing wrong. For example, with my 2HB I am not getting the topspin I want. I think I just need to drop the racket head lower on my backswing but until I see a video of it, I'm not sure.

 

[GuyClinch]

So coaching is the best way to make sure you save time...so you can work more...so you have the money to spend on coaching.

Seems accurate. Coaching can get you to your own personal 'wall' quicker. So people like it. I'd compare it to a movie star hiring a trainer. You can get in shape yourself - even great fantastic shape. But if you hire a professional trainer to the stars and personal chef - its faster - and you might even achieve better results then you could on your own..

 

[Mark Asher]

Seems to me the real value of a coach is he or she can tell you what you're doing wrong so you don't continue to reinforce bad habits.

 

[meltphace 6]

Seems to me the real value of a coach is he or she can tell you what you're doing wrong so you don't continue to reinforce bad habits.

Most adult low level players don't understand the game of tennis at all. They're working on their technique while still having no clue about Magnus effect, etc. Know your physics engine!

 

[Drmd]

Playing alot of tennis is necessary for improvement for most - that does not mean its sufficient. It is probably the best thing you can do for your tennis game though.. Especially if you can vary the competition..

No amount of practice is going to make up for vast differences in athleticism in tennis anyway.. An 80 year old man is never going to beat a shortstop who just picked up tennis a few weeks ago. The athleticism gap is too great. Most of the time guys playing 20 years are on the downside athleticism wise and like LeeD - it starts to creep over into your tennis..

You have it backwards my friend. Playing 10000 hours of bad tennis won't make you a good player. It won't even make you an okay player. Improvement comes from stroke development ie fundumentals which will enable you to actually play tennis.

 

[Drmd]

*Skip to the bottom if ya want the summary*

Here. I'll put myself out there for you. Pretty typical player I think, and a typical hit. Of course all the two hit rallies and shanks are removed here, but overall we are usually around 4-10 balls before error.

I started as a 3.0 self-rated about 6 years ago, but moved to 3.5 quick mostly because of athletic ability (I played competitive racquetball and college volleyball). I ended up playing 4.0 within about another year though I was never bumped in rating (long story, but I am still rated 3.5C). Haven't actually played leagues in years but I hit and play matches with a variety of levels of players, from newbies to pros.

I am pretty much self-coached. The difference between having a good coach and self-coaching is, it took me years to improve myself that would have been maybe a year of work had I had a coach.

The slow progression: I had to first learn what I was looking for in strokes, then research ways to improve on issues I had/have, then find someone who would actually want to practice to improve instead of just hitting and playing, then continually evaluate and try to improve on my own self-coaching. I've said before though, the added benefit for players who take this route is they end up with a good understanding of what works for them. A lot of the time is spent sorting through all the BS online that is more marketing and selling of technique and tips over substantive information you can actually use.

Some of this was for coaching my sons, helping with Jr's and helping coach high school players. I do better at being able to teach than to personally apply techniques, but my own progression is tied into all the research and learning I have done. I retire soon and will be starting a USPTA journey.

I use a lot of video to look at mechanics and such. A LOT of video. That works for me but might not for others.

So I think to the point of improving just hitting vs. coaching, the first thing would be is a player actually practicing to improve? Then how do they practice to improve (just playing in matches, individually, or with a coach)? Then how often are they out and how much time is devoted to improving. My observation is this:

• Some players have a progression limit based on interest and, more so, physical ability.
• Some players can continue to improve slowly through simple match play
• Some players can continue to improve through self-coached practice
• Most players will improve while under the guidance of a good coach.

I think the above is kind of in the order of speed of progression too - from no progression or super-slow progression, to having a coach who can help move a player along quicker. To me much of the improvement boils down to the individual so much you can make the generalized statements like the OP's initial post. Everyone is different in how the choose to play and progress.

I used to play 3-5 times a week. Last few years I only get out on weekends and maybe once during the week, so progress has slowed, but still happens.

TLDR: I think the OP is applying his own experience too broadly and incorrectly over all 3.5 players, and players in general.

Biggest thing in all this though, I need better fitness and footwork more than anything to progress.

Learning fundelmentals is the only thing that matters. The only way I know of to do that is to get instruction and practice (train - drill). I hear about advanced recreational players who are self-taught but I've never actually run into one and I used to spend 5 days a week on court for many years.

Having said that. There are different degrees of natural ability and someone who is self-taught and doesn't train but has a certain amount of talent will be a better player than someone who doesn't train and doesn't have as much talent. But a self-taught player who doesn't train no matter how athletic and talented it's not going to compete well against even an untalented unathletic player who has a few years of consistent training..

It can't be stressed enough that it is the repetition of proper strokes through drilling that creates the ability to hit the ball and get it in the court consistently and that is the number one goal in tennis.

 

[Mainsacross]

Can someone please post vids of OP's strokes? I have been looking for something to fill the hole in my life since PoMo left the building. This guy sounds promising.

 

[LeeD]

We've seen his serves.
Decently athletic, in good shape, hit's a solid 3.5+ level lefty serve, but very new to the game and very raw in tactics and knowledge.

 

[Mainsacross]

We've seen his serves.
Decently athletic, in good shape, hit's a solid 3.5+ level lefty serve, but very new to the game and very raw in tactics and knowledge.

OP has already spent my entire annual budget for coaching in the past month alone. Plus, he is a radical innovator bringing immersion techniques from language learning to revolutionize tennis. By now, he must be 5.5 atleast. We need video confirmation of his progress before he heads on over to the "health and fitness" threads to ask for tips on healing his overuse injuries.

 

[Mainsacross]

OP, have you considered sleeping with your racquet in your hand to get some extra practice in when your inevitable tennis nightmares start kicking in three months into your regime? Truly immersive stuff.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I've now practiced or played 21 of the last 22 days.

I feel stronger than ever.
I am going to start playing twice a day.
My body has totally adapted.

Playing 2x a week is brutal
Playing 6x a week is a breeze.

Go figure.

 

[LeeD]

We know the human body has only SO much energy in it.
You can play twice a week, and be ready and raring to go when the 2 days arrive.
You can play 3 days a week, like me, NEED the extra days off, and be able to play ....3 times a week.
OR, you can meter out your energy, play conservative and use little energy, and play every single day of the week.

 

[atp2015]

I have more faith in players they can learn simple stuff by reading or watching lessons, and apply it for recreational improvements in their game.

I'm talking about 3.0 player who wants to be 4 or 4.5 player in a matter of a couple of years.
Here is DIY experiment to check how far self learning will take you. Take a tennis sensor and measure your top spin rate. If it's less than 30 pct, try to double it in 3 months without one-on-one coaching.

 

[PittsburghDad]

We've seen his serves.
Decently athletic, in good shape, hit's a solid 3.5+ level lefty serve, but very new to the game and very raw in tactics and knowledge.

Playing 20+ years.

 

[GuyClinch]

You have it backwards my friend. Playing 10000 hours of bad tennis won't make you a good player. It won't even make you an okay player. Improvement comes from stroke development ie fundumentals which will enable you to actually play tennis.

Meh. This sounds good but is short on substance. What are 'fundamentals' - well good timing, good balance, good movement - those are all fundamental in my mind. Playing lots of tennis will help you on all three vectors. Might not get you pro style strokes - but certainly playing lots of tennis can get you much better at tennis.

You are confounding variables here assuming that everyone has sufficent talent and has been playing a ton. Generally speaking neither is true..

1) 10,000 hours is a LONG LONG time. Many guys have been playing 20 years - sure. But they play 2 hours a week - 30 weeks a year - so thats only 60 hours a year. Even with 20 years - thats only 1200 hours.

2) 10,000 hours of play made with the aim of improving is going to get people better at tennis -even if its by sheer trial and error. You are mythologizing the sport - pointing to mystical 'fundamentals' - that I am not sure you can actually articulate..

3) A fair number of players play for just fun - and are realistic about the idea that they will not greatly improve after a certain point. Generally speaking you see about a 1.0 NTRP bump in the best (more athletic) players. Coaching might net you an extra .5 if you can afford weekly privates. But even those guys are on the athletic side. Plenty of people can afford a weekly lesson and get stuck quick too..

 

[LeeD]

Playing 20+ years.

Lots of player's have been playing 20+ years, and still 3.0. They just don't play enough each year to progress, playing once a month or so's.
I"ve been playing for almost 40 year's, and still barely out of 3.5.

 

[SinjinCooper]

Lots of player's have been playing 20+ years, and still 3.0.

And not a one of them is "very new to the game."

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Played for a few years in the 80s.
Played a few times in the 90s.
Played a handful of times in 2012.

At that point, no serve, no volley, no approach.
Just baseline rallies. Hence, the username.

Learned what Conti grip was and started taking lessons in 2016. Finally realized that tennis could be "learned", and was not just an innate skill.

Made more progress in 1 year of lessons than the last 30 years combined

 

[PittsburghDad]

Lots of player's have been playing 20+ years, and still 3.0. They just don't play enough each year to progress, playing once a month or so's.
I"ve been playing for almost 40 year's, and still barely out of 3.5.

Oh I know. I'm referring to the fact that you called him "new to the game.". I thought he was too based on his posts. He's not though. Decades.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Oh I know. I'm referring to the fact that you called him "new to the game.". I thought he was too based on his posts. He's not though. Decades.

You have never even played tennis.

 

[PittsburghDad]

You have never even played tennis.

I have. Maybe not at your obvious level of expertise. We are all just trying to be you. How's the two practices a day going? Figured out how to hit topspin yet? We are pulling for you!

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I posted a topspin video.
Did the ball go flat and long? Nope.
Did it slice? Nope.
Guess what's left.
You don't even know what topspin is.

Easy to mock people from the sidelines.
We all know you've never swung a racket.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

How's the two practices a day going?

I want to up it to 2-3 hours a day of coaching and drill.
I have realized that no one plays one hour a day and becomes good.

I'm going to try drilling 3x a day this summer.
Morning, afternoon, and night.

 

[PittsburghDad]

I posted a topspin video.
Did the ball go flat and long? Nope.
Did it slice? Nope.
Guess what's left.
You don't even know what topspin is.

Easy to mock people from the sidelines.
We all know you've never swung a racket.

You were pretty entertaining for a while. Thanks for making the message boards a funnier place.

Your swing may be 2.5 after 20 years but your troll ntrp is solid 5.0. Well done!

 

[Mainsacross]

I posted a topspin video.
Did the ball go flat and long? Nope.
Did it slice? Nope.
Guess what's left.
You don't even know what topspin is.

Easy to mock people from the sidelines.
We all know you've never swung a racket.

Could you please provide me a link to your video? I am genuinely curious about how much progress you are making because I wonder too about how much improvement can be gained by upping lesson time.

 

[Traffic]

So I went out to hit with my son today. He does tennis and swim. Two swim meets this week plus a tournament this weekend. What a crazy schedule. Oh, I have a daughter in two sports too.

Whenever there was a free moment, I was on the court with my son practicing serves and playing out the point. So in the last week, I played 5x. One was organized match play, the rest were either pick-matches or practice.

My progress is slow.

One thing I will say. Unless you play formal matches with something on the line, all the coaching and practice is without focus. This is true for my son. This is true for me. We are awesome practicing. But during a formal match???? All hell breaks loose.

Btw, my son plays his club-mate that he started tournaments with as doubles partner tomorrow. They are both working towards a spot on the HS varsity team. It's a a USTA champs match. Will be exciting an exciting match to watch.

 

[Traffic]

My progress is slow.

What I want to say is I applaud your commitment in trying to improve your tennis. Sounds like you have a passion for tennis and you really want to see improvement and are willing to take step towards it.

I wish I had the time and resources to play 5x a week with 2 of those being with a private coach. Absolutely jealous. But I think that's what it'll take to see real improvement.

I've been supporting my kids for years now. Thousands and thousands of dollars. Hours and hours driving them to classes, lessons and tournaments. And you know what? Progress is slow. But it is steady.

If you can, you should look into joining a USTA team and start playing formal matches if you haven't already. All the coaching and theory, videos, and practice gets flushed down the toilet on your first match. But it will be all part of your growth and improvement.