Was 2018 Wimbledon SF the most important match in Djokovic’s career?

Hard to say that this was the most important but he had a few really important ones in his career, and this was one of them. He and Nadal had 3 dogfights in their careers against each other in a Slam on each surface and this was the one on grass. Definitely one of the best matches I've ever seen in my lifetime and brought him back from the ashes.
 
Oh, I know Nadal was playing fantastic, hence why I said that dropshot winner, had Djokovic missed it, he likely loses the match in four sets.

In regards to some of the poor returning, I think a lot of that had to do with both also being under a lot of tension, because they both knew the match was going to stop, and whoever won that tie break was going to have the BIG edge heading into the next day, which to me makes those clutch winners even more spectacular, because they were both feeling it.

Djokovic uses this same tactic at RG 2021 when he was serving SP down in that titanic 3 set, which basically decided the outcome of that match. That for me is how close Nadal was to probably winning the slam race. Check this out.

True, and as I recall, in the '20 RG final, Novak tried a slew of droppers versus Rafa, perhaps none of them successful. Especially in the opening set.
 
True, and as I recall, in the '20 RG final, Novak tried a slew of droppers versus Rafa, perhaps none of them successful. Especially in the opening set.
Djokovic hit 26 dropshots in 2020. Very high number.

He won 13 and lost 13. 4 were outright winners and 2 outright forced Nadal to error out. So 6 outright winners for djokovic.

In 2021 he only hit 21 dropshots in a match twice long. He won just 7 and lost 14.

What I believe is that 2020 surface was SO SLOW that dropshots was actually good tactic. Some of the rallies hit by both in 2020 were insane but when surfaces became too slow, its always advantage Nadal.
 
Got you. Just watched the whole thing back, Djoker’s was excellent. Also there were 4 droppers within the space of 6 or 7 points lol. All of them won the point immediately for the person who hit them. If anything Nadal was equally clutch with them to even get the SPs in the first place - Nadal hits one as a winner at 3-5 down, then another 5-5 after a 20 shot rally, then Djoker hits one SP down at 7-6, then Nadal hits one at 7-7. This is why I think Ned fans shouldn’t complain, he had to do crazy stuff to even get the chances

Also… the returning was poor in that TB, totally forgot that. It starts at 4-2 to Djoker with Djoker getting a Nadal 2nd serve (body serve) and thrashing it halfway up the net. Then at 5-4 to Djoker, Djoker gets a hittable body serve, sends it way long. On both of Nadal’s SPs where Djoker is serving, Nadal gets 2 makeable serves, gets a racket comfortably on both, but sends the ball wide or long. At 8-8, Nadal hits a 2nd serve return long
Part of me wants to watch the whole (epic) match again, buy I also watched from the dropshot point Hitman cited to the end of the breaker. Interesting that on the next point, Rafa hit his own dropper to regain a match point...but on serve.

I think the commentator said afterward that Rafa had tried 8 dropshots on his FH (that set?) all successful. But with some irony, he went for a drop volley...or half-volley...later on that didn't work out for him.

Small, small margins.
 
Djokovic hit 26 dropshots in 2020. Very high number.

He won 13 and lost 13. 4 were outright winners and 2 outright forced Nadal to error out. So 6 outright winners for djokovic.

In 2021 he only hit 21 dropshots in a match twice long. He won just 7 and lost 14.

What I believe is that 2020 surface was SO SLOW that dropshots was actually good tactic. Some of the rallies hit by both in 2020 were insane but when surfaces became too slow, its always advantage Nadal.
Good stat...do you know what his success rate was for just the first set.

At times, Novak used...uses...his dropper as a bailout shot. But if memory serves, he hit some good-looking ones in that first set, and Rafa always seemed to have the answer.
 
Good stat...do you know what his success rate was for just the first set.

At times, Novak used...uses...his dropper as a bailout shot. But if memory serves, he hit some good-looking ones in that first set, and Rafa always seemed to have the answer.

Djokovic hit 4 dropshots in game 1. 9 dropshots in set 1.

Won 4. Lost 5 including 1 reverse dropper on nadal's dropshot.

0 dropshots ended the points in set 1. Like I said, very slow surface.
 
Djokovic hit 4 dropshots in game 1. 9 dropshots in set 1.

Won 4. Lost 5 including 1 reverse dropper on nadal's dropshot.

0 dropshots ended the points in set 1. Like I said, very slow surface.
Thanks. ( Watching it, and now trying to recall it, I thought that it had been even less successful than that.)
 
Thanks. ( Watching it, and now trying to recall it, I thought that it had been even less successful than that.)
Djokovic tactics to me looked sound in RG 2020. He was also physically fit. The problem was the temperature dropped to 14 degree celcius (57F) making the surface super slow. So whatever Djokovic can dish out, Nadal could run down. Even Djokovic ran down some impossible shots I have never seen before.
He was wearing long sleeves entire 2 weeks.
 
Undoubtedly, in terms of what he ended up achieving. Had he lost this match, I honestly think that Djokovic would be on about 15 majors today, and perhaps still on 12. Nadal let the genie out of the bottle.
 
Boring Answer: We'll never know how things would've played out had Rafa won instead.

It was certainly a gift to tennis fans, as the tourney was Rafa's return to playing great grass court tennis and Novak's returning to playing great tennis again. A brilliant match.
 
Undoubtedly, in terms of what he ended up achieving. Had he lost this match, I honestly think that Djokovic would be on about 15 majors today, and perhaps still on 12. Nadal let the genie out of the bottle.

Actually Zverev, Tsitsipas, Rublev, Ruud, Kyrgios, Berretini did

You think that one match alone could change how these players failed time and time again or you think Djokovic would have lost all
Motivation with that one match ??
 
You think that one match alone could change how these players failed time and time again or you think Djokovic would have lost all
Motivation with that one match ??
Yes. Nadal and Federer had shared the last 6 majors between them. Djokovic had not won a major in over two years, and his losses at 2018 Rome (to Nadal), 2018 French Open (to Cecchinato) and 2018 Queen's Club (to Cilic, from championship points up) saw Djokovic increasingly cracking up. After losing to Cecchinato, Djokovic held his post-match press conference in a quiet room and mumbled one-word answers. If Nadal wins 2018 Wimbledon, the same dynamic carries on, with Djokovic cracking up more, and Nadal and Federer keep winning majors between them. Djokovic winning 2018 Wimbledon changed the dynamic, saw him out of the genie's bottle and going on a surge of winning 3 majors in a row. Djokovic knew the importance of that 2018 Wimbledon match. Watch Djokovic's reaction in the fifth set when he suddenly starts roaring at his box in a very strange manner. It was like a primal desperate roar.

Another vital match, in hindsight, is the 2014 Wimbledon final. Federer was on 17 majors, Nadal on 14 majors, Djokovic on 6 majors, and Djokovic hadn't won a major since the 2013 Australian Open.
 
The upcoming competition would've still been the same, so if Nole had lost at Wimbledon, his 2018-2023 dominance would've started at the US Open months later.
That's not how tennis works. Top 100 players are at the same physical level. It's all about the mental game.
If he had lost WB18 he would not have won USO18 for sure. First next chance would be AO19 (also under question mark). He needed a big win against one of the other 2 members of the big 3, and luckily that win came. The victory over Nadal opened a new era of dominance for him, without that victory and with maybe another year of dry without slams, we probably wouldn't even watch Novak play tennis anymore.
 
That's not how tennis works. Top 100 players are at the same physical level. It's all about the mental game.
If he had lost WB18 he would not have won USO18 for sure. First next chance would be AO19 (also under question mark). He needed a big win against one of the other 2 members of the big 3, and luckily that win came. The victory over Nadal opened a new era of dominance for him, without that victory and with maybe another year of dry without slams, we probably wouldn't even watch Novak play tennis anymore.
Hahahahaaa
You are so consistent lol
 
That's not how tennis works. Top 100 players are at the same physical level. It's all about the mental game.
If he had lost WB18 he would not have won USO18 for sure. First next chance would be AO19 (also under question mark). He needed a big win against one of the other 2 members of the big 3, and luckily that win came. The victory over Nadal opened a new era of dominance for him, without that victory and with maybe another year of dry without slams, we probably wouldn't even watch Novak play tennis anymore.
Lol
 
You have Jelena Djokovic statements where she said that Novak had already given up tennis after his unsuccessful return to the tour after surgery. Without relevant successes (slams and victory over Fedal), Novak would certainly not play tennis after 2019.

 
That's not how tennis works. Top 100 players are at the same physical level. It's all about the mental game.
If he had lost WB18 he would not have won USO18 for sure. First next chance would be AO19 (also under question mark). He needed a big win against one of the other 2 members of the big 3, and luckily that win came. The victory over Nadal opened a new era of dominance for him, without that victory and with maybe another year of dry without slams, we probably wouldn't even watch Novak play tennis anymore.

Add me to those responding with "lol".
 
You have Jelena Djokovic statements where she said that Novak had already given up tennis after his unsuccessful return to the tour after surgery. Without relevant successes (slams and victory over Fedal), Novak would certainly not play tennis after 2019.

Expect that statement was contradicted by oh idk…reality, lol. If Joker had given up tennis, then why did he continue to play…tennis?

Had Joker lost a nail biter 5 setter to RAFA he would have been encouraged that he was on the right track. It’d be no different from when RAFA lost the 2017 AO F to Fed. He actually went longer than Joker did without winning a GS title. Yet when he lost a heartbreaking 5 setter he took the positives that came with a deep run there by turning 2017 into a multi schlem year and finishing YE#1. Had Joker lost he still would have won the 2018 USO and 2019 AO.
 
Probably little impact. Nadal himself had said before WB that Novak was back. Had he lost at WB he’d still be winning and likely still end up as the GOAT.
 
I always go back to this match as the turning point for Djokovic becoming the eventual GOAT.

He had 2 years of pretty bad form (by his standards) before this tournament. Had he lost this match against Nadal, would he still have ended up as the GOAT?

I always wonder what would have happened had he lost this match against Nadal and if he would still have gone on a rampage like he did from 2018-2023. Meanwhile Nadal would have gone on to win his 3rd Wimbledon and would have been the clear favorite for USO 2018 as well. The GOAT race would have clearly been in Nadal’s favor.

I still think he could have won a few slams but nowhere near 24 had he lost this match, and Nadal would have ended up with the most GS titles.

What do you think?

Definitely a key match. But the most important win? No more than RG 2021 semifinal against Nadal. Or Wimbledon 2019 final against Federer.

RG 2013 semifinal against Nadal is probably the toughest loss of his career. If he wins this match, he wins RG (doubt Ferrer would have troubled him much). If he wins RG, the YE-#1 is his, not Nadal's. If Nadal doesn't win RG, he likely doesn't win Canada/Cincinnati/USO in 2013. If Djokovic wins RG 2013, does he lose the final in 2014? Maybe not.
Then hard to not mention USO 2021 final. He was 1 match away from the CYGS. When you see how pathetic Medvedev has been since then, it makes you question a lot of things. I'm sure a part of him still wonders what happened that day.
IMO those matches are way more important.
 
Expect that statement was contradicted by oh idk…reality, lol. If Joker had given up tennis, then why did he continue to play…tennis?

Had Joker lost a nail biter 5 setter to RAFA he would have been encouraged that he was on the right track. It’d be no different from when RAFA lost the 2017 AO F to Fed. He actually went longer than Joker did without winning a GS title. Yet when he lost a heartbreaking 5 setter he took the positives that came with a deep run there by turning 2017 into a multi schlem year and finishing YE#1. Had Joker lost he still would have won the 2018 USO and 2019 AO.
USO18 wouldn't win for sure,lol. ;)

AO19 would be the only chance to return, if he blew it, goodbye to tennis.
 
Definitely a key match. But the most important win? No more than RG 2021 semifinal against Nadal. Or Wimbledon 2019 final against Federer.

RG 2013 semifinal against Nadal is probably the toughest loss of his career. If he wins this match, he wins RG (doubt Ferrer would have troubled him much). If he wins RG, the YE-#1 is his, not Nadal's. If Nadal doesn't win RG, he likely doesn't win Canada/Cincinnati/USO in 2013. If Djokovic wins RG 2013, does he lose the final in 2014? Maybe not.
Then hard to not mention USO 2021 final. He was 1 match away from the CYGS. When you see how pathetic Medvedev has been since then, it makes you question a lot of things. I'm sure a part of him still wonders what happened that day.
IMO those matches are way more important.
Yes as others have stated.

Rg 2021 is probably most important tournament of Djokovic's career. Without that win, his stats would look hollow. Beating king of clay and winning rg, no other player from the past or future can ever do that. And outside of rg, Novak was going to dominate anyway.

Rg 21 win was the day many people declared Djokovic was the goat.
 
USO18 wouldn't win for sure,lol. ;)

AO19 would be the only chance to return, if he blew it, goodbye to tennis.
Based on what, lol? You haven’t posted anything remotely coherent to back up that claim. RAFA got injured and had to retire in the SF and Ol’ Rog got knocked out in the 4R. Who was there to stop Joker from winning? And if you honestly think Joker would have quit tennis had he not won Wimby 2018 then that says a lot about his mental toughness :whistle:
 
Based on what, lol? You haven’t posted anything remotely coherent to back up that claim. RAFA got injured and had to retire in the SF and Ol’ Rog got knocked out in the 4R. Who was there to stop Joker from winning?
lol, you convince me that he would win a tournament where he has a score of 2:5 in the final (2:3 from 2011 to 2016).
On what basis would he not win it? Well, based on the fact that he would not have won Wimbledon, which boosted his confidence and gave him wings to continue to succeed in the season. Cincinnati wouldn't win either.
Again, Novak himself said that Wimbledon was always the turning point of his career (2014, 2018, 2022), so it is naive to think that he would win a slam where he is traditionally the worst (in the final) while having one of the worst seasons behind him in life.

And if you honestly think Joker would have quit tennis had he not won Wimby 2018 then that says a lot about his mental toughness :whistle:
I didn't say that he would have given up on tennis if he had lost WB18, but that he would have given up on tennis over time (after 2019 almost certainly, since covid also coincided fantastically with that) if there were no satisfactory results (slam title and victory at the slams against Fedal). AO19 would be a turning point for a fresh start and traditionally WB19 (but who knows how he would play against Federer there in a potential final without a Slam title since 2016 and with a big worm of self-doubt), if he failed there, then it would be over.
 
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lol, you convince me that he would win a tournament where he has a score of 2:5 in the final (2:3 from 2011 to 2016).
On what basis would he not win it? Well, based on the fact that he would not have won Wimbledon, which boosted his confidence and gave him wings to continue to succeed in the season. Cincinnati wouldn't win either.
Again, Novak himself said that Wimbledon was always the turning point of his career (2014, 2018, 2022), so it is naive to think that he would win a slam where he is traditionally the worst (in the final) while having one of the worst seasons behind him in life.


I didn't say that he would have given up on tennis if he had lost WB18, but that he would have given up on tennis over time (after 2019 almost certainly, since covid also coincided fantastically with that) if there were no satisfactory results (slam title and victory at the slams against Fedal). AO19 would be a turning point for a fresh start and traditionally WB19 (but who knows how he would play against Federer there in a potential final without a Slam title since 2016 and with a big worm of self-doubt).
Well let’s see, for starters he didn’t have to go through any of RAFA, Ol’ Rog, MurrayGOAT, or Stanimal so 4 guys who’re responsible for kicking his butt there the most times, lol. He had a really easy draw overall that culminated with a guy who he has matched up with well over the years, hadn’t won a GS since the 09 USO, and had way more injuries and surgeries than him in the F. That’s far more convincing than anything you’ve said here, lol.

Joker literally lost to Citybus in Canada lol. It had no impact on his results going forward. Joker was already steadily improving throughout the year. By mid-season he had already showed signs of his form returning. RAFA even said he was back before Wimby even started. What’s actually naive is to think one of the greatest players of all time would just give up that easily lol. You don’t achieve what the Big 3 achieved by rolling over that easily. Again, RAFA went even longer without winning a GS (RG 14) before he won RG 17 and also came off a devastating loss. Did he give up after losing to Fed? No, he took inspiration from the progress he made and went on to win 2 GS titles and finish YE#1.

And you literally said this earlier in the thread lol:
You have Jelena Djokovic statements where she said that Novak had already given up tennis after his unsuccessful return to the tour after surgery.
 
If it is for wimbelden 2019 40 15 match point and fedrer was playing as good as anyone and winning from there is another level of greatness. No match can equal that .
 
Wimbledon 2018 wasn't some magical turning point. He was just finally healthy and in-form again. If he lost that match he still likely wins the USO a few months later.

His 2 year spiral was mostly due to his elbow. Once he finally got the surgery he was putting off it all came back together. He came back too quick in the spring and was awful, but you could see the improvement by the clay season, and then the ultimate payoff during the grass. Getting back on top was inevitable at that point. Hell, even if he lost to Rafa and didn't have the confidence to win the USO, the 2nd half of his 2018 would still be something great to build on compared to 2017, which would probably lead to a good off-season where he comes back fresh and ready to reclaim Australia in 2019.
This feels a little like revisionist history. I remember Novak being awful for a whole year and a half. He showed glimpses of his old self during the clay season, but ultimately he lost to Cecchinato in the RG QF. Wimbledon really was a massive turning point for him, just as AO 2017 was for Federer. Sure, if they'd lost they might've still gained confidence and had their comeback later. But there's no denying that his career came back from the dead in 2018.
 
it probably won him 2 w titles (18 + 19) but you have to wonder if he would clean up anyway, given how pisspoor the competition was from 2020-2023. No amount of Fedal heroics can turn the 90s gen into winners.
 
This feels a little like revisionist history. I remember Novak being awful for a whole year and a half. He showed glimpses of his old self during the clay season, but ultimately he lost to Cecchinato in the RG QF. Wimbledon really was a massive turning point for him, just as AO 2017 was for Federer. Sure, if they'd lost they might've still gained confidence and had their comeback later. But there's no denying that his career came back from the dead in 2018.
I never said otherwise. I know how down Novak was. His return wasn't inevitable, but once he got the surgery and showed he could still play it was inevitable. He won, what, 10 slams in 2019-24? That wasn't all hinging on winning Wimbledon 2018. He was getting back no matter what the outcome of that single match was.
 
The most important match of his career was the mental battle he had to face and overcome during the infidelity allegations.

The hate Coach Pepe got during that time was unreal. He helped him get over it with love and perseverance. Agassi was a disaster.
 
Undoubtedly, in terms of what he ended up achieving. Had he lost this match, I honestly think that Djokovic would be on about 15 majors today, and perhaps still on 12. Nadal let the genie out of the bottle.
we would still be in the kevin anderson era... :unsure:

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