Was murray an all-time great?

aldeayeah

G.O.A.T.
No, but he was close. Only other player to be #1 (year-end, even!) in the big 3 era. He unarguably faced tough competition. Came up short a bit too often, regrettably. I won't look funny at you if you decide he was, though.
 

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
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aldeayeah

G.O.A.T.
For the record: Mandy has reached eleven major finals. That's more than Becker and same as McEnroe.

But he lost often, and none of his losses were really close.

But then again, all of the losses were to Fedovic.

So you can make a case either way I guess.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
For the record: Mandy has reached eleven major finals. That's more than Becker and same as McEnroe.

But he lost often, and none of his losses were really close.

But then again, all of the losses were to Fedovic.

So you can make a case either way I guess.
Becker ain't an ATG with only 6 Slams. An ATG needs at least 7 Slams and the #1 ranking, like Wilander or McEnroe. Becker has less than 7 Slams and so he is not an ATG. People form future generations will not remember him.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
if Murray is ATG, then so are Roddick, Safin and Hewitt.
Roddick is closer to Ferrero than Murray, so no.

Ferrero: 1 Slam title, 3 Slam finals, 8 weeks at #1, 4 Masters 1000.
Roddick: 1 Slam title, 5 Slam finals, 13 weeks at #1, 5 Masters 1000.
Murray: 3 Slam titles, 11 Slam finals 46 weeks at #1, 2 Olympic Gold in singles, 14 Masters 1000 titles.

There is a gigantic difference between Murray and Roddick. Roddick is also closer to Thiem than Murray. So by your logic, Thiem is an ATG.
 

AlexM

Rookie
Roddick is closer to Ferrero than to Murray, so no.

Ferrero: 1 Slam title, 3 Slam finals, 8 weeks at #1, 4 Masters 1000.
Roddick: 1 Slam title, 5 Slam finals, 13 weeks at #1, 5 Masters 1000.
Murray: 3 Slam titles, 11 Slam finals 46 weeks at #1, 2 Olympic Gold in singles, 14 Masters 1000 titles.

There is a gigantic difference between Murray and Roddick. Roddick is also closer to Thiem than to Murray.
is it just me or does Roddick look like Dimitrov? like if you agree?
 

PilotPete

Hall of Fame
Roddick is closer to Ferrero than Murray, so no.

Ferrero: 1 Slam title, 3 Slam finals, 8 weeks at #1, 4 Masters 1000.
Roddick: 1 Slam title, 5 Slam finals, 13 weeks at #1, 5 Masters 1000.
Murray: 3 Slam titles, 11 Slam finals 46 weeks at #1, 2 Olympic Gold in singles, 14 Masters 1000 titles.

There is a gigantic difference between Murray and Roddick. Roddick is also closer to Thiem than Murray. So by your logic, Thiem is an ATG.

No, you are incorrect. You are being illogical. The current consensus is that Becker/Edberg are the lower rung ATGs. They have 6 slams. Murray is further away from them than the players I mentioned. So if Murray is an ATG with that difference between Edberg/Becker, then so are Hewitt/Roddick/Safin who are closer to Murray than Murray is to Becker/Edberg.
 

Enceladus

Legend
Becker ain't an ATG with only 6 Slams. An ATG needs at least 7 Slams and the #1 ranking, like Wilander or McEnroe. Becker has less than 7 Slams and so he is not an ATG. People form future generations will not remember him.
6 grandslams are widely recognized by the tennis community as the frontier for entering the ATG category, so Becker is an ATG player, Murray is not.
 
D

Deleted member 777746

Guest
Of course not. Jim is the official gatekeeper of ATGs and Murray is a step below him, forever looking up
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
Becker ain't an ATG with only 6 Slams. An ATG needs at least 7 Slams and the #1 ranking, like Wilander or McEnroe. Becker has less than 7 Slams and so he is not an ATG. People form future generations will not remember him.

LOL what? I can guarantee you that people will remember the 6-time slam champ (including being the youngest ever Wimbledon winner) and charismatic personality that is Boris Becker.
 

jarko111

Hall of Fame
Have you watched his documentary? I'm not saying he was the best, he's close... but he definitely was the hardest working. I think he worked out a little too much honestly.
You know, he was coached by Mauresmo.. and she, too, I thought really started to deteriorate her body from too much time in the gym. Do you remember when one of her leg muscles was just hanging unattached to the bone or whatever ligament it was because she injured it on the elliptical, right?
 

JaoSousa

Hall of Fame
Becker ain't an ATG with only 6 Slams. An ATG needs at least 7 Slams and the #1 ranking, like Wilander or McEnroe. Becker has less than 7 Slams and so he is not an ATG. People form future generations will not remember him.

"An ATG needs at least 7 slams and the #1 ranking" - He was a world #1, and the 7 slams is just your opinion, not a commonly accepted measure.

"People from future generations will not remember him"- Again, purely conjecture. I could conjecture that people would remember Becker more than Wilander for his exciting style of tennis and the fact that he won Wimbledon at 17. Most tennis fans between the ages of 10-18 that I interact with know Boris Becker, and few know Wilander.
 

James P

G.O.A.T.
"An ATG needs at least 7 slams and the #1 ranking" - He was a world #1, and the 7 slams is just your opinion, not a commonly accepted measure.

"People from future generations will not remember him"- Again, purely conjecture. I could conjecture that people would remember Becker more than Wilander for his exciting style of tennis and the fact that he won Wimbledon at 17. Most tennis fans between the ages of 10-18 that I interact with know Boris Becker, and few know Wilander.
I don't know any tennis fans aged 10-18, but in the general public, many people have at least heard of Boris Becker, while very few know whom Wilander is. So yeah, agreed on this point.
 

daphne

Hall of Fame
Yes, absolutely.

Dude is playing against 3 GOATs at the same time. Just because he's not a GOAT doesn't mean he's not an ATG.
Dude!
Think about it. If one of the 3 is considered GOAT that can mean that the other 2 are to be considered ATGs, which would make them equal to Murray in terms of the title (ATG). Well, that's never going to be the case, SOOOOOOOOOOO Murray cannot be considered an ATG EVER!
 
Depends on what the criteria you set for the term. Do you consider B.Becker(or players with similar career achievements) an ATG? This is all up to your subjective opinion, personally I think he needs a slam or 2 more to be considered an ATG but some may argue he is one already.
 

jondice

Semi-Pro
He's a very, very tough one for me. I get why some say no; I get why some say yes. 3 Slams just isn't enough on its own. But he does have an ATG great career outside of Slams. AND he did play against the 3 best ATG Slam winners in history.

However, one could say that Becker (I think most include him as lower rung ATG), with 6, had to play against an even tougher overall field (though not as tough a 1-2-3 punch as Murray faced) of ATG: Prime Mac, Edberg, Wilander, Llendl, past prime (but still good) Connors, and young Agassi and Sampras. Yet, he managed to double Murray's Slam count.

In the end, I think he needed two more to be considered an all time great. He's now an AATG. Almost all time great. Murray, please sit next to Courier and Vilas.
 

Sunny014

Legend
@Topic

Nope..... Murray is inferior to Stan Wawrinka.

IMO at their best, Wawrinka & Marat Safin are both better than Andy Murray.
 

Sunny014

Legend
Andy is lucky he won wimbledon 2 times in the 2010s
Had he been born 6 years before his time then Roger wouldn't have allowed him to win even 1 wimbledon.
Not to mention the HC slams would also have been beyond his reach as getting past Federer even there was not possible, even if he did Safin was there, a nightmare when he was at his best.
Clay would be impossible to win, that goes on without saying, Gaston Gaudio was playing at a high level, Ferrero and others were amazing too before 04 and from 05 there GOAT of Clay had arrived.

NO chance !
 
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mike danny

Bionic Poster
No, but he was close. Only other player to be #1 (year-end, even!) in the big 3 era. He unarguably faced tough competition. Came up short a bit too often, regrettably. I won't look funny at you if you decide he was, though.
You mean in the period when the Big all collapsed simultaneously?

Saying Big 3 era only serves to mask this fact.
 

cortado

Professional
Perhaps not an ATG, but a good example of what can be achieved if somebody gives 100% consistently throughout their career.
He certainly didn't waste his talent.
 

ChrisRF

Legend
ATG is the most artificial and meaningless category I ever heard of to be honest. If some people argue that there cannot be a GOAT (in terms of THE ONE best player in history) because of too many factors, then how on earth could this be taken serious?

A border like “6 Slams” of course is totally subjective as well and mostly just means: “I like Becker and Edberg because of their style, so I want them to be included.” And then when some people have constructed their ATG group, they act as if most of the members are quite equal and that even those 6 or 7 Slam guys definitely would have been massive competition for the Big 3. :D
 
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