Was Nadal really not at his peak in 2011?

[Third Serve]

I think Fed’s back issues at the end of 2008 are fairly well known, it was really obvious at the YEC. The fact he pulled out of events immediately after the AO is less known.

Yeah I didn’t know about the withdrawals. Definitely he seemed out of sorts at the YEC

 

[Third Serve]

I wouldn’t. ‘06-‘08 RG were unwinnable matches, ‘07 Rome was unwinnable, ‘09 DC was unwinnable (form but also BO5), ‘09 MC/Rome were somewhat winnable but there was a huge gap between them on clay still. That leaves just ‘08 Hamburg and ‘09 Madrid.

I think MC and Rome 2009 were definitely winnable matches. Nadal had dropped off from the previous clay season particularly in terms of FH weight. His movement was also relatively ordinary (by his standards of course). More winnable than most of the 2015-16 Djokovic-Nadal matches I’d say.

Djokovic actually ran Nadal pretty even in the MC final, I low-key think it’s about as good as the Madrid final if not better. It just doesn’t have the drama, the tight scoreline/length, and the distinction of being the last of a trilogy. Djokovic stood as much of a chance to win that as Nadal did in the much-lauded Rome 2016 match imo.

 

[Racquet_smash]

Djokovic was in very solid form in 2007-2008, with only a slight drop off in 2009 (which happened to Nadal as well after the Australian Open).

He certainly stood far more chances than Nadal did in 2015-16 where he was basically a ghost.

 

[Aabye5]

He did have back problems, which probably affected his serving since the fall of 2008 when he had his worst YEC performance and had to withdraw from Dubai and Davis Cup after the AO.

Federer to skip Dubai and Davis Cup tie

Roger Federer, the world's number two, has announced his withdrawal from both the Dubai Open and Switzerland's Davis Cup game against the United States. The Swiss has been suffering from a persistent…

www.france24.com

But did his back problems play a role in the Wimbledon final?

 

[metsman]

Yeah I didn’t know about the withdrawals. Definitely he seemed out of sorts at the YEC

He obviously had the issues in end of 2008 but I'm not sure how much to make of it for the AO. Cleared he played close to his best at the time at the AO besides a couple of slow sets against Berdych (but Fed never really won a major totally cleanly between 08 and 12 anyways). Served brilliantly in the QF and SF. Even if we assume he woke up with a bad back on the day of the final he still clearly had more than enough to win but wasn't decisive enough

 

[TheFifthSet]

There seems to be some misunderstanding. I never said 2011dal was out of form. I even said it was part of his prime. I just it wasn’t his peak…which it wasn’t. I actually give Joker props to his 2011 wins, especially when compared to his 2015-2016 wins.

Fair. 2011 wasn't peak Nadal and '13 wasn't peak Djokovic.

All I have been doing is pointing out the disparity of matches that took place when RAFA was in terrible form vs when Joker was in terrible form. It just makes zero sense why it’s ok to bring up the “CC skew” but we can’t acknowledge that RAFA did show up more often than Joker did when he was in bad form.

They're both fair game. I think it evens out (gun to my head I'd say Djokovic was a little unlucky in the H2H, but it's not something I'd quibble over if it were a more minor sticking point around these parts).

Yes, lol. I think that they both had advantages that compensated for and evened things out in the overall H2H. As far the second half of this last segment goes, the CC skew and RAFA supposedly “ducking” is referenced far more often than Joker “ducking”.
Especially when you have 2/3 of the Big 3 fandom vs the RAFANS. And it’s done irrespective of the schlem H2H being brought up. The schlem H2H is typically brought up in GOAT debates. RAFA “ducking” is talked about on its own and done just to be disparaging.

Yeah, but my contention is that the ducking angle was adopted to countersig the slam H2H (which as I've argued before, is just not a credible thing to bring up to deflate Djokovic, it's a credit to Nadal sure but not something that diminishes Djok).

Anyway, much ado about nothing I guess, since we mostly agree.

 

[TheFifthSet]

I think MC and Rome 2009 were definitely winnable matches. Nadal had dropped off from the previous clay season particularly in terms of FH weight. His movement was also relatively ordinary (by his standards of course). More winnable than most of the 2015-16 Djokovic-Nadal matches I’d say.

Djokovic actually ran Nadal pretty even in the MC final, I low-key think it’s about as good as the Madrid final if not better. It just doesn’t have the drama, the tight scoreline/length, and the distinction of being the last of a trilogy. Djokovic stood as much of a chance to win that as Nadal did in the much-lauded Rome 2016 match imo.

Winnable to some extent physically but the surface preference/form disparity + Ned having a mental hold over Djokovic means that the whole cluster of matches from 06-09 on clay was a great opportunity for Nadal to run up the score. Even though Djokovic caught Nadal in some of his weaker clay years, it being clay should mitigate that a little. The opposite is of course true on HC, but most of the tour’s big tournies are played on it.

 

[TheFifthSet]

He obviously had the issues in end of 2008 but I'm not sure how much to make of it for the AO. Cleared he played close to his best at the time at the AO besides a couple of slow sets against Berdych (but Fed never really won a major totally cleanly between 08 and 12 anyways). Served brilliantly in the QF and SF. Even if we assume he woke up with a bad back on the day of the final he still clearly had more than enough to win but wasn't decisive enough

That would make him having one of his worst-serving major finals even more disheartening. Very commendable stuff outside the serve, matching Nadal stroke-for-stroke in arguably his best HC tournament.

 

[objection_]

That would make him having one of his worst-serving major finals even more disheartening. Very commendable stuff outside the serve, matching Nadal stroke-for-stroke in arguably his best HC tournament.

It's funny that in 09 the two finals he lost featured some of his worst serving in a major final, while the two he won featured his best.

 

[AO13]

Results =/= Level of play

Nadal was worse than 2010

There was a reason he was worse, and it was called Novak Djokovic.

 

[TheFifthSet]

It's funny that in 09 the two finals he lost featured some of his worst serving in a major final, while the two he won featured his best.

Yup.

 

[Bride of Alcaraz]

Nadal peaked in 2008, and his knees got ruined at the 2009 AO (and that decline began at 2008 Olympics), so 2008 was the last time Nadal had peak mobility
2004-2008 will forever be the highest level of tennis we've ever seen!

 

[jl809]

There was a reason he was worse, and it was called Novak Djokovic.

TIL Djokovic caused Nadal to lose 2 sets to Isner at RG

 

[Bride of Alcaraz]

Djokovic was never good enough to beat Nadal/Federer at slams (except for 2008 AO), so he waited until Nadal's knees got shot by those marathons at 2009 AO...
And then in 2010 Nadal was beatable but Djokovic still wasn't good enough, and then Nadal had a lapse of confidence in 2011 and Djokovic took advantage
Despite Nadal no longer having peak mobility, Djokovic still couldn't beat Nadal at 2013 US Open!

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Yeah this rarely gets talked about tbh.

Maestro’s Orchestra should have tried to controlled the narrative the same way as V@mos Brigade and NoleFam have done

 

[nolefam_2024]

Why was Nadal not at his peak in 2011?
Because if he was peak it would completely derail his claim that UNINJURED Nadal doesn't lose. So some must play the game of saying not peak.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Why was Nadal not at his peak in 2011?
Because if he was peak it would completely derail his claim that UNINJURED Nadal doesn't lose. So some must play the game of saying not peak.

Healthy peak Nadal is undefeated

 

[metsman]

Maestro’s Orchestra should have tried to controlled the narrative the same way as V@mos Brigade and NoleFam have done

Unfortunately there's less room for trumpets in the philharmonic than in the jazz band.

 

[metsman]

Djokovic was in very solid form in 2007-2008, with only a slight drop off in 2009 (which happened to Nadal as well after the Australian Open).

He certainly stood far more chances than Nadal did in 2015-16 where he was basically a ghost.

yeah I would say Joe was a reasonable prematch favorite in 07 Canada (in hindsight obvious, at the time close, but he was definitely looking better in that tournament), 08 IW, the last 3 matches of 09, and 08 Beijing/Cincy were basically pick-ems. 07 Miami most thought Ned would win because of how good he'd looked and because Djokovic hadn't scored the major victory yet. Still I believe they played something like 23 matches in 06-10 and Ned was the heavy favorite in most.

 

[AO13]

TIL Djokovic caused Nadal to lose 2 sets to Isner at RG

So Djokovic season 2011 was not his peak as well, because he lost to Janko Tipsarevic in ATP finals?

 

[jl809]

So Djokovic season 2011 was not his peak as well, because he lost to Janko Tipsarevic in ATP finals?

What? My point is that Nadal had poor performances in parts of 2011 that have nothing to do with Djoker at all. In fact while we’re on the subject of that 2011 ATP finals, how did so called peak Nadal do there, when he never had to face Djokovic?

 

[The Blond Blur]

Fair. 2011 wasn't peak Nadal and '13 wasn't peak Djokovic.




They're both fair game. I think it evens out (gun to my head I'd say Djokovic was a little unlucky in the H2H, but it's not something I'd quibble over if it were a more minor sticking point around these parts).



Yeah, but my contention is that the ducking angle was adopted to countersig the slam H2H (which as I've argued before, is just not a credible thing to bring up to deflate Djokovic, it's a credit to Nadal sure but not something that diminishes Djok).

Anyway, much ado about nothing I guess, since we mostly agree.

Trust me, I wish they played on HC more too for the sake of fairness. Especially in 2017-mid 2018

 

[Djokovic2011]

Trust me, I wish they played on HC more too for the sake of fairness. Especially in 2017-mid 2018

I swear you've got some kind of scar from Nadovic only meeting twice during that period TBB.

 

[TTMR]

Nadal was in final after final in 2011 losing to Djokovic at both Masters and GS'. His serve had declined from the great one he had in 2010, but that was a conscious choice on his part and not a physical handicap.

 

[AO13]

What? My point is that Nadal had poor performances in parts of 2011 that have nothing to do with Djoker at all. In fact while we’re on the subject of that 2011 ATP finals, how did so called peak Nadal do there, when he never had to face Djokovic?

And my point is that Djokovic, who had one of the best seasons of his career in 2011, also had some poor performances during that year.

The fact is, Djokovic beat Nadal on all 6 encounters in 2011, all in finals, all on the biggest stages. 4 Masters 1000 and 2 Grand Slams, and immediately after 2011, they played one of the greatest matches of all time in Australian Open 2012 and Djokovic beat him again.

If it wasn't for Djokovic, Nadal could've had best season of his career in 2011, which could follow up with title in AO 12 and then 3 more big titles - Monte Carlo, Rome and Roland Garros.

The false propaganda that "nAdaL wAs nOt iN hiS pEaK" at age of 25 is absurd. He was easily the best player in the world. After Djokovic.

Lost 2 sets to Isner lol, the excuses you guys use just not to give the credit to the other guy.

Enjoy:

 

[StefanV]

When I was watching tennis in 2011, I was like "Wow, Djokovic is destroying peak Nadal". Then TTW educated me in 2016. I decided to analyze what kind of Nadal played in 2011 and found out that it wasn't peak Nadal. This revelation broke my heart. Tears were on my cheeks. It was hard.

 

[The Blond Blur]

I swear you've got some kind of scar from Nadovic only meeting twice during that period TBB.

Lol, my guy, all I do is call out the double standard when it comes to 2015-2016 vs 2017-mid 2018

 

[Djokovic2011]

Lol, my guy, all I do is call out the double standard when it comes to 2015-2016 vs 2017-mid 2018

And oh boy have you called it out over the years.

 

[nolefam_2024]

When I was watching tennis in 2011, I was like "Wow, Djokovic is destroying peak Nadal". Then TTW educated me in 2016. I decided to analyze what kind of Nadal played in 2011 and found out that it wasn't peak Nadal. This revelation broke my heart. Tears were on my cheeks. It was hard.

Same with Nole in 2013. I thought he was peak but then ttw told me he wasn't.

 

[The Blond Blur]

And oh boy have you called it out over the years.

I only call it out because y’all bring up the 2015-2016 wins far more frequently like they’re some massive accomplishment

 

[SonnyT]

Nadal peaked in 2008, and his knees got ruined at the 2009 AO (and that decline began at 2008 Olympics), so 2008 was the last time Nadal had peak mobility
2004-2008 will forever be the highest level of tennis we've ever seen!

Nadal looked pretty fast to me, chasing down Federer and Djokovic's shots. So Nadal peaked at 22, so who among the greats peaked so early?

Federer peaked at 24, Nadal at 22, they'd deny any of Djokovic's slams if they last as long as normal!

 

[nolefam_2024]

Nadal looked pretty fast to me, chasing down Federer and Djokovic's shots. So Nadal peaked at 22, so who among the greats peaked so early?

Federer peaked at 24, Nadal at 22, they'd deny any of Djokovic's slams if they last as long as normal!

It's ******** to say Nadal was slowed by 2011.

 

[jl809]

And my point is that Djokovic, who had one of the best seasons of his career in 2011, also had some poor performances during that year.

The fact is, Djokovic beat Nadal on all 6 encounters in 2011, all in finals, all on the biggest stages. 4 Masters 1000 and 2 Grand Slams, and immediately after 2011, they played one of the greatest matches of all time in Australian Open 2012 and Djokovic beat him again.

If it wasn't for Djokovic, Nadal could've had best season of his career in 2011, which could follow up with title in AO 12 and then 3 more big titles - Monte Carlo, Rome and Roland Garros.

The false propaganda that "nAdaL wAs nOt iN hiS pEaK" at age of 25 is absurd. He was easily the best player in the world. After Djokovic.

Lost 2 sets to Isner lol, the excuses you guys use just not to give the credit to the other guy.

Enjoy:

that’s fine and I totally agree! Still not entirely relevant to my original point. The dude I replied to said “it’s just Djokovic why people think 2011 Nadal wasn’t peak Nadal”. People who aren’t Wambulance Brigade morons have already patiently explained ITT that there are examples that have nothing to do with Djokovic as to why 2010 (“peak”) Nadal was clearly better than 2011 Nadal on indoor and outdoor HC (except for the sunshine double in 2011 which was imo peak Nadal) AND clay. I provided a flippant example which is Nadal dropping 2 sets at RG to a mug (incidentally he’s only won a match 3-2 3 times ever at RG). Almost everyone agrees 2011 RG was not among the top 5 Nadal runs at RG

And sure, ok, 25 y o Nadal was peak Nadal. As others have said, if we take that then we have 2012 and 2013 Djoker as peak Djoker by the same logic. That’s fine by me too if you want to go down that route

 

[AO13]

that’s fine and I totally agree! Still not entirely relevant to my original point. The dude I replied to said “it’s just Djokovic why people think 2011 Nadal wasn’t peak Nadal”. People who aren’t Wambulance Brigade morons have already patiently explained ITT that there are examples that have nothing to do with Djokovic as to why 2010 (“peak”) Nadal was clearly better than 2011 Nadal on indoor and outdoor HC (except for the sunshine double in 2011 which was imo peak Nadal) AND clay. I provided a flippant example which is Nadal dropping 2 sets at RG to a mug (incidentally he’s only won a match 3-2 3 times ever at RG). Almost everyone agrees 2011 RG was not among the top 5 Nadal runs at RG

And sure, ok, 25 y o Nadal was peak Nadal. As others have said, if we take that then we have 2012 and 2013 Djoker as peak Djoker by the same logic. That’s fine by me too if you want to go down that route

You highlighted one result and made it as example for the whole season, and it isn't. First off, Isner is not a mug, just as Tipsarevic if we're being honest. Second, Nadal lost 6 finals of big tournaments and won Monte Carlo, Barcelona and Roland Garros. He also lost Tokyo final against Murray. Sure, result wise it was not a good year for one of the greatest, but if it wasn't for Djokovic, it could have been one of the best seasons in his career.

About Djokovic 2012 and 2013, hell yes they were peak years. In 2012 he played 17 tournaments and in 15 of those he was at least in SF. Sick. Won AO, Miami, Toronto, Beijing, Shanghai, ATP finals. Lost in QF of Madird against Tipsarevic and 2nd round of Paris against Querrey.

In 2013, he won AO, Dubai, Monte Carlo, Beijing, Shanghai, Paris and ATP Finals. Lost in SF of RG and in finals of W and USO respectively against Nadal, Murray and again Nadal.​

 

[nolefam_2024]

You highlighted one result and made it as example for the whole season, and it isn't. First off, Isner is not a mug, just as Tipsarevic if we're being honest. Second, Nadal lost 6 finals of big tournaments and won Monte Carlo, Barcelona and Roland Garros. He also lost Tokyo final against Murray. Sure, result wise it was not a good year for one of the greatest, but if it wasn't for Djokovic, it could have been one of the best seasons in his career.

About Djokovic 2012 and 2013, hell yes they were peak years. In 2012 he played 17 tournaments and in 15 of those he was at least in SF. Sick. Won AO, Miami, Toronto, Beijing, Shanghai, ATP finals. Lost in QF of Madird against Tipsarevic and 2nd round of Paris against Querrey.

In 2013, he won AO, Dubai, Monte Carlo, Beijing, Shanghai, Paris and ATP Finals. Lost in SF of RG and in finals of W and USO respectively against Nadal, Murray and again Nadal.​

Both years Nole would have finished 1st in the world if not for resurgent Nadal and that net miss in RG.

2012/2013 Djokovic is better than almost all seasons of world number 1s. He just had massive competition.

 

[Racquet_smash]

yeah I would say Joe was a reasonable prematch favorite in 07 Canada (in hindsight obvious, at the time close, but he was definitely looking better in that tournament), 08 IW, the last 3 matches of 09, and 08 Beijing/Cincy were basically pick-ems. 07 Miami most thought Ned would win because of how good he'd looked and because Djokovic hadn't scored the major victory yet. Still I believe they played something like 23 matches in 06-10 and Ned was the heavy favorite in most.

Yeah Nadal was clearly the favourite in most matches but predictions weren't something like 95-5 which is what their 2015-16 matches looked like.

 

[jl809]

You highlighted one result and made it as example for the whole season, and it isn't. First off, Isner is not a mug, just as Tipsarevic if we're being honest. Second, Nadal lost 6 finals of big tournaments and won Monte Carlo, Barcelona and Roland Garros. He also lost Tokyo final against Murray. Sure, result wise it was not a good year for one of the greatest, but if it wasn't for Djokovic, it could have been one of the best seasons in his career.

About Djokovic 2012 and 2013, hell yes they were peak years. In 2012 he played 17 tournaments and in 15 of those he was at least in SF. Sick. Won AO, Miami, Toronto, Beijing, Shanghai, ATP finals. Lost in QF of Madird against Tipsarevic and 2nd round of Paris against Querrey.

In 2013, he won AO, Dubai, Monte Carlo, Beijing, Shanghai, Paris and ATP Finals. Lost in SF of RG and in finals of W and USO respectively against Nadal, Murray and again Nadal.​

Fair enough, so how do you define a “prime” year then - something like 2014 for Djokovic? I thought most Djoker fans had 2011 and 2015-mid 2016 as his peak, likewise Nadal fans for 2008-mid 2009, 2010 and 2013 (off grass), YEC 2003-2007 for Fed fans

 

[AO13]

Fair enough, so how do you define a “prime” year then - something like 2014 for Djokovic? I thought most Djoker fans had 2011 and 2015-mid 2016 as his peak, likewise Nadal fans for 2008-mid 2009, 2010 and 2013 (off grass), YEC 2003-2007 for Fed fans

To me, it's two different things results and level of play. Also peak, prime, to me it's a same thing, different word.
Djokovic was at this best from 2011 to mid 2016, later in 2019 to 2023 he did have great results and the level of play was near his peak/prime. But the way he obliterated everyone in 2011, and again in 2015, that was the highest both in level of play and result wise.

Nadal was at his peak/prime from 2008 to 2013, and later he had solid run from 2017 to 2020 and a good 2022.

The thing is, Djokovic and Nadal are so good, that they played great tennis their whole career. The issues were injuries, especially for Rafa, and the competition. Sometimes they had it tough no matter how good they were (Nadal with Djokovic in 2011, Djokovic on RG with Nadal most of the times), and sometimes no one could get their level.

Same thing goes for Federer.​

 

[BauerAlmeida]

Nope. He wasn’t. Name one surface 2011 Nadal would beat 2008-2010 Nadal on or that he was better on.
Nadal was still great in 2011 obviously. Very consistent but he lost 3-4 steps on the court. Which is big when you have his type of game that relies on that so heavily especially against Fed and djokovic the elites

He was never the same player after 2010!

There are many version of 2011 Nadal that beat 2009 Nadal in the same events.

 

[RS]

I think he did actually, I never bought the excuse that Usyk was taking it easy in that fight in order to lure in Joshua (or that he was sick or whatever).

Chisora is an aggressive swarming fighter, something that Fury and Joshua are not, which plays into Usyk's hands.

Chisora fought Usyk the "right away", he just couldn't finish the job because the gulf in class is too big. Usyk's a legit ATG while Chisora is a gatekeeper basically.

Chisora is just like that really. He gave most other fighters a tough go who he faced in the current scene apart from like Fury who is all wrong for him and battered him.

He was also a bit unlucky. Arguably there were a few decisions in his losses than arguably should could gone his way.

 

[Daniel Andrade]

Nadal peaked in 2013 (outside of grass).
Now I do think Nadal's level in 2011 was very close to his peak, not quite there, but close, and would have had a great year were not for Nole.

 

[Daniel Andrade]

Nadal peaked in 2013 (outside of grass).
Now I do think Nadal's level in 2011 was very close to his peak, not quite there, but close, and would have had a great year were not for Nole.

Nole defeated him twice on clay in straights, nuff said.

 

[zagor]

Chisora is just like that really. He gave most other fighters a tough go who he faced in the current scene apart from like Fury who is all wrong for him and battered him.

He was also a bit unlucky. Arguably there were a few decisions in his losses than arguably should could gone his way.

Sure, Chisora is a very good fighter, a real ballsy dude who'll fight anyone, but he's still a clear level bellow compared to Fury and Joshua and he arguably gave Usyk his toughest fight at heavyweight, of course you could say Fury did but it's comparable either way.

That's because Chisora is a fearless bull who will charge and pressure Usyk while Joshua and Fury are guys who prefer to use their size and reach, they don't want to get into a close-up brawl.

For all the talk about Usyk giving away so much height and weight to Fury and being at a disadvantage, I kinda disagree. For me of all of the top fighters I've seen across different eras, Mike Tyson who is 10+ cm shorter than Usyk would have been by far his worst match-up IMO. He'd hunt Usyk down in the ring with his speed and power, while Joshua and Fury were actually boxing Usyk on the back foot, which is a losing proposition for them as no way they can match his cardio across 10+ rounds.

 

[RS]

Sure, Chisora is a very good fighter, a real ballsy dude who'll fight anyone, but he's still a clear level bellow compared to Fury and Joshua and he arguably gave Usyk his toughest fight at heavyweight, of course you could say Fury did but it's comparable either way.

That's because Chisora is a fearless bull who will charge and pressure Usyk while Joshua and Fury are guys who prefer to use their size and reach, they don't want to get into a close-up brawl.

For all the talk about Usyk giving away so much height and weight to Fury and being at a disadvantage, I kinda disagree. For me of all of the top fighters I've seen across different eras, Mike Tyson who is 10+ cm shorter than Usyk would have been by far his worst match-up IMO. He'd hunt Usyk down in the ring with his speed and power, while Joshua and Fury were actually boxing Usyk on the back foot, which is a losing proposition for them as no way they can match his cardio across 10+ rounds.

 

[7thKingSlam]

Saw many Nadal fans who try to discredit Djokovic's 2011 performance by saying that his 6-0 record came against a Nadal who was no longer at his peak, but is this really true?
I mean, without Djokovic, 2011 would've been Nadal's best year in terms of achievements.

Nadal was very good in 2011 and kept finding ways to get through tough matchups like Federer, Murray, etc. But he played Djokovic poorly that year. He was used to being able to grind Djokovic down, so this new and improved version stumped him. It was completely a matchup issue.

Otherwise though, he did serve better at his best in 2010 and was more aggressive off the ground strokes, much stronger on clay too. 2011 was still prime and a very good version of Nadal but not as good as 2010.

 

[Mustard]

Nadal in 2011 kept hitting cross-court forehands to the Djokovic backhand, like he would against Federer. Even in 2007-2010, that was a bit of a tough matchup for Nadal against Djokovic, but Nadal would find a way to win in most matches regardless. In 2011, that approach was suddenly a bad idea, along with 2011 Djokovic's level taking Nadal by complete surprise. In 2012-2013, Nadal was hitting a lot more down the line forehands in rallies against Djokovic, and using the slice a lot more.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Nadal in 2011 kept hitting cross-court forehands to the Djokovic backhand, like he would against Federer. Even in 2007-2010, that was a bit of a tough matchup for Nadal against Djokovic, but Nadal would find a way to win in most matches regardless. In 2011, that approach was suddenly a bad idea, along with 2011 Djokovic's level taking Nadal by complete surprise. In 2012-2013, Nadal was hitting a lot more down the line forehands in rallies against Djokovic, and using the slice a lot more.

Rafa’s slice was peak af then

 

[RS]

Sure, Chisora is a very good fighter, a real ballsy dude who'll fight anyone, but he's still a clear level bellow compared to Fury and Joshua and he arguably gave Usyk his toughest fight at heavyweight, of course you could say Fury did but it's comparable either way.

That's because Chisora is a fearless bull who will charge and pressure Usyk while Joshua and Fury are guys who prefer to use their size and reach, they don't want to get into a close-up brawl.

For all the talk about Usyk giving away so much height and weight to Fury and being at a disadvantage, I kinda disagree. For me of all of the top fighters I've seen across different eras, Mike Tyson who is 10+ cm shorter than Usyk would have been by far his worst match-up IMO. He'd hunt Usyk down in the ring with his speed and power, while Joshua and Fury were actually boxing Usyk on the back foot, which is a losing proposition for them as no way they can match his cardio across 10+ rounds.

The rematch is less than 2 weeks away now. Crazy how it's come so quick.

 

[zagor]

The rematch is less than 2 weeks away now. Crazy how it's come so quick.

Time flies man.