Was there an error in the score?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by ctbmar, Oct 23, 2009.

  1. ctbmar

    ctbmar Semi-Pro

    May 16, 2005

    Safin was serving at 2-4 down in the 2nd set...
    Was the 1st point at 3:16 in or out? It looks in and the score says 15-0 for Safin. But Safin walked away nonchalantly for the 1st point. Then on the 2nd point, Roger netted the forehand. The scoreboard read 30-0, then it changed to 15-15. Then on the 3rd point, Safin lobbed over Roger and won the 3rd point, but the score states 30-15, instead of 40-0. The strange thing is that Roger and Safin both did not argue that the score is wrong. Safin lost this game. So the only point that could be observed wrongly by me is the 1st point which is actually out and Roger casually hit the ball anyway, but Safin looks really alert at the net, anticipating the "tweener" under-the-leg shot. I have never seen an umpire making a mistake in the score and both players aren't paying attention and just accepted the scoreline and eventually, the server lost the game. Could this be the 1st ever error which was not detected?

    It's very weird. Safin didn't even react when the umpire called the score 15-15. I would expect Safin to correct the umpire sarcastically and furiously, but Safin looks like he was in dreamland... Never even flinch or react to the score called at 15-15, instead of 30-0. I wish I could understand the commentators, then I will know for sure whether the 1st point was in or out for that lob. If it was out, then why did the score write 15-0 for Safin?
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2009
  2. zacinnc78

    zacinnc78 Professional

    Mar 16, 2007
    north carolina
    looked like an error to me.....safin shouldve won with that challenged ace
  3. 2ndserveace

    2ndserveace Semi-Pro

    Aug 13, 2008
    If you listen closely, there was an out call on the lob. However, I'm not sure if the call came from a linesperson or from someone in the crowd. Either way, the umpire probably heard the call and therefore gave the point to Fed. After the point, you can't really hear the umpire when he says the score, so we can't be sure if he heard the out call or not, but that's probably what happened. When they post the score as 15-0 Safin down in the bottom left, it was probably just a mistake by the broadcasting people responsible for that, which they quickly fix on the next point.
  4. ctbmar

    ctbmar Semi-Pro

    May 16, 2005
    Thanks for your replies zacinnc78 and 2ndserveace.

    On reviewing the clip again, I heard a muffled "Out Call" that was mixed with the cheers from the crowd. So I'm not really certain that it's an "Out Call". And if it's really an "Out Call", like what you mentioned, it could be either from the line judge or from someone in the crowd.

    Roger also seemed unfazed when he missed the "tweener" under-the-leg shot, so maybe it is because the ball was out, so he just practised that shot.

    But if you view the clip at 3:35, you can see that the sideline judge indicated the ball was inside the sidelines, by pointing his/her hands down onto the court. I think there is a baseline linejudge that will check for footfaults and balls that land outside the baseline. I can't see from the video clip the baseline linejudge's hand indications. Maybe the baseline linejudge signalled to the umpire that the ball was out, but TV viewers don't see this "Out Call" by the baseline linejudge.

    I think Safin should have challenged this 1st point, it would/could have given him 40-0 for this game if the 1st point was in, but he will still lose the match. To think of it, if this 1st point was in, will the umpire decide to replay the point because Federer had a play on it or award the point to Safin? If the umpire decides that Federer had no play on the ball and could not win the point from that situation, Roger could have argued with the umpire for a replay with all his previous "Tweener" successes in other matches. For future matches, Roger can also bring up his famous "Tweener" against Djokovic at US Open 2009 semifinal as a reference to argue for a replay the point for such a scenerio. But how about other tour players who are in this same situation and needed to play the "Tweener" on a point that was challenged and the ball was actually in, but they had no prior success for any tour matches for this shot, will the umpire also allow a replay on the point? The umpire can say "You are not Roger Federer."

    I wonder what are the guidelines for umpires on whether to award replays for balls that are winners for 95% of the tour players, but players like Roger and Rafa are able to run down balls that going to hit the 2nd bounce, flick them with their wrist and pass their opponents. So should umpires award replays based on the players' ability to hit a difficult shot? However, it is very difficult for umpires to decide on giving replays for players that are streaky, young and up & coming who has never hit that particular difficult shot, but may have a chance in doing so for that challenged point. I think the most important thing is to hit the ball back into the court, even if the ball looks like it's going out or run down those difficult shots and put the ball back into the court, so even if the challenge favours the opponent and the ball is in, you are able to contest for a replay because you hit the ball back into the court for this challenged point. Roddick made this mistake by letting go of the ball and the line judge called the ball "Out" after Roddick let the ball go and the ball had gone past Roddick before the line judge made the "Out" call. If the ball landed and the line judge called "Out" fast enough for Roddick to still hit the ball, then Roddick has a case. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff6_UTPDO9s. So tour players should reduce line call controversies caused by line challenges by attempting to hit back those close line calls back into the court, which also gives them the rights for a replay for the point.
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2009

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