Was Wawrinka clay peak the second best in OE after Nadal?

K

kangaroo1973

Semi-Pro
It is true tha 2015 FO Final Wawrinka was arguably one of the highest peaks i ve ever witnessed. Maybe 2014 USO Cilic and 2007 AO Fed were slightly higher but that s debatable
 
J

JMR

Hall of Fame
Nappa said:
That 2015 RG final was unbelievable performance
Click to expand...
This is a slippery use of "peak." Normally, the term in tennis has to encompass more than just one match, or one tournament. Conversely, if a one-time performance could be a "peak," then how about just a single dominating 6-0 set? Or maybe just one fantastic shot (as your video seems to suggest)? People will define the word as narrowly as desired to sweep in the intended result.

adil1972 said:
Borg 6-0 in RG finals
Sampras 7-0 in WB finals
Djok 10-0 in AO finals
Nadal 14-0 in RG finals.
Click to expand...
Opposite problem. These aren't peaks either. These are full-career results!
 
K

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
I would argue that even Federer had a higher clay peak than Stan, or at least, peak Federer would’ve easily handled that version of Stan on clay.

Need to stop overrating Djokovic as this demi god measuring stick. Sure he may have the best resume but he is far from perfect… and has quite a few puzzling losses in his prime.
 
RS

RS

Bionic Poster
Kralingen said:
Also, hot take due to the matchup, but I’d still take Novak’s peak over Wawrinka vs the field.
Click to expand...
I made a poll I think like 2 years ago and most people still took Djokovic's peak even in a direct matchup.
 
Last edited:
ghostofMecir

ghostofMecir

Legend
Nappa said:
IMG-7927.gif

That 2015 RG final was unbelievable performance
Click to expand...

This was an all-time great performance, and it was the one time that he really did completely out play Djokovic, but I’m not sure if we can say clay Peak from just one tournament. And, even in this tournament, had he wound up playing Nadal even the 2015 version of him, I’m not sure he would beat him.

Overall, he had a very strong 1.31 dominance ratio, which is strong, but not anything all-time great, even though he did face a very strong final opponent. His overall game, i.e., return, defense, etc., just simply had too much variability from match to match, set to set to put his peak at the top of peaks, and this is evidenced by looking at his total points won percentage, games won percentage, dominance ratio, etc.
 
BorgTheGOAT

BorgTheGOAT

Legend
NatF said:
Relative to their fields both guys were similarily dominant, don't think there's much seperating their peaks. Nadal of course had the greater longevity for one reason or another. For sure there should be no debate about who the top 2 are.
Click to expand...
You can order them either way at 1 and 2. You are right the only thing separating them is Nadal’s longevity. Peak wise, when Borg retired he had the same number of FO than Nadal at the same age while not playing 1977 which would likely be his. Of course one can say he lost twice at the FO and Nadal (at that age) only once, but his loss to Panatta in 1973 would be the equivalent to Rafa playing in 2003 where he very likely would have lost as well. Borg’s 78 run with only 32 games lost is more dominant than any of Rafa’s runs but given the different eras and opponents I wouldn’t want to quibble too much about few games difference. Anyways, they are both well above the rest and there is no way anyone can say one is “clearly” more dominant than the other.
 
F

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
Kralingen said:
I would argue that even Federer had a higher clay peak than Stan, or at least, peak Federer would’ve easily handled that version of Stan on clay.

Need to stop overrating Djokovic as this demi god measuring stick. Sure he may have the best resume but he is far from perfect… and has quite a few puzzling losses in his prime.
Click to expand...
Federer destroyed him in their 2011 match.
 
MeatTornado

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
Stan was absolutely on fire in that 2015 RG final, but sometimes we talk about him like he won that entire tournament in straight sets. One big time win isn't nearly enough to confidently say he has the highest peak ever outside of Nadal.

He was absolutely zoning against someone he matches up well against, but that doesn't make it the highest peak ever. In order to definitely say that based on one tournament or one match, he would've had to have brought that level in the 2017 final against the Clay GOAT who he matches up against poorly. Then we could talk.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RS
RS

RS

Bionic Poster
MeatTornado said:
Stan was absolutely on fire in that 2015 RG final, but sometimes we talk about him like he won that entire tournament in straight sets. One big time win isn't nearly enough to confidently say he has the highest peak ever outside of Nadal.

He was absolutely zoning against someone he matches up well against, but that doesn't make it the highest peak ever. In order to definitely say that based on one tournament or one match, he would've had to have brought that level in the 2017 final against the Clay GOAT who he matches up against poorly. Then we could talk.
Click to expand...
Ah the beautiful RG 2017 final.
 
duaneeo

duaneeo

Legend
The 2nd best peak player on clay hardly ever played at that level in actual competition.

Or, his peak wasn't so peak.
 
TheFifthSet

TheFifthSet

Legend
ghostofMecir said:
This was an all-time great performance, and it was the one time that he really did completely out play Djokovic, but I’m not sure if we can say clay Peak from just one tournament. And, even in this tournament, had he wound up playing Nadal even the 2015 version of him, I’m not sure he would beat him.

Overall, he had a very strong 1.31 dominance ratio, which is strong, but not anything all-time great, even though he did face a very strong final opponent. His overall game, i.e., return, defense, etc., just simply had too much variability from match to match, set to set to put his peak at the top of peaks, and this is evidenced by looking at his total points won percentage, games won percentage, dominance ratio, etc.
Click to expand...

I think Nadal’s ball was too listless in that tournament, but agree with the rest.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

N
Nadal is not Djokovic on clay
Replies
34
Views
3K
Bender
Bender
Eren
Second greatest clay courter in the Nadal Era
Replies
25
Views
1K
Sabrina
Sabrina
Hitman
Fedovic best finals streak on clay
Replies
10
Views
505
spottishwood
spottishwood
clout
Rank these following players based on their results on clay
Replies
4
Views
302
nolefam_2024
nolefam_2024
T
What is Wawrinka's peak level?
Replies
12
Views
1K
Fedole
Fedole
Top