DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
No, Nadal just cries in the locker room afterwards.
Watch Out For New Rafa Next Year!!!!
- Thread starter Magnificent!
- Start date
No, Nadal just cries in the locker room afterwards.
NikeWilson
Semi-Pro
I agree.
We should not count Nadal out.
We should not count Nadal out.
C
celoft
Guest
Maybe he will be crying on Rod Laver Arena in January after yet another loss to Djokovic in a final.
MariaRafael
Banned
Djokovic will collapse under pressure. This process has already started. It will continue successfully in 2012.
Rafa will definitely kick back. He has a nasty habit of having bad odd years and good even ones with the only exception of 2005. Had a fairly bad 2007: won only 6 titles, only 1 of them non-clay, lost in Wimbledon final badly. Next year in 2008 won Wimbledon, Olympic Games and became World No.1. He was unanimously buried in 2009, still had arguably his best season in 2010. Hopefully after bad 2011 he'll have great 2012.
Rafa will definitely kick back. He has a nasty habit of having bad odd years and good even ones with the only exception of 2005. Had a fairly bad 2007: won only 6 titles, only 1 of them non-clay, lost in Wimbledon final badly. Next year in 2008 won Wimbledon, Olympic Games and became World No.1. He was unanimously buried in 2009, still had arguably his best season in 2010. Hopefully after bad 2011 he'll have great 2012.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
I do agree that Rafa still has enough left in him to make one big push next year, and I am sure he will give his best effort. Rafa normally has a strong start to the season, so he could build some momentum and gain any lost confidence by getting some big wins, as in titles.
However, Djoker is not going anywhere either. He has matured incredibly and has finally found the correct balance in his game, mentally, physically and emotionally. Most of all, he feels he belongs amongst the best and should be winning slams, instead of playing second fiddle to Fedal.
Rafa has had a great season, you can't compare this to 2009. If not for a better player in Novak, he would have dominanted arguably even more this year than in years gone by. I say arguably, since we never know. But it took Novak to topple him in the big matches.
I am sure Rafa will finally win over Novak. His big concern is not losing early on in the season to him, especially at the AO. That could hurt him a lot, and other players could then start to finish him off.
Rafa should just play the tournies Nole is not in.
Clarky21
Banned
CDestroyer
Professional
LOL. The other players should wear shirts that say "Im Novak and I will destroy you again".
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, but that's during a time when there was no third man around to disrupt the Fedal domination. There wasn't all that much for Nadal and Federer to worry about in regards to the competition all those years, other than eachother. They were so far from the pack, it was basically Federer/Nadal and then the rest.
Now it's a whole new game.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
It's also lucky for Nadal that Del Potro sat out the entire 2010 season with a wrist injury and still is trying to reclaim his best form (USO 2009). Next year we may see a surge of talent who will challenge Nadal more than before. Even Murray is still trying to mature and get out of his silly slumps and get control of his on court outbursts.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
LOL!!! How ignorant! Djokovic has been a major thorn in Nadal's side for years! Did you just wake up out of a coma and miss their matches at Madrid and Monte Carlo 2009, Hamburg 2008, etc and several hardcourt Masters? Win or lose, Nadal had to play out of his skin to beat Djokovic much of the time, even on clay.
Djokovic has always troubled Nadal, more than any other player out there. Even going as far back as 2007 when Djokovic was still a baby.
Rafa has been consistent about Novak being a problem. He's a year younger and has always been very good.
Give it a break the guy had been pro for three years. A baby? please
Set Sampras
Banned
Ahh yes all those slam wins over Nadal prior to this year. Was amazing. Oh thats right.. Djokovic never beat Nadal at a slam prior to this year.
ollinger
G.O.A.T.
Reminds me of the "new" McEnroe years ago. JMac dropped out of the tour for a time late in his career, then announced he had been training to play, as he described it, a form of tennis so advanced that most fans would be unable to comprehend it. He returned, playing very mediocre tennis.
Tmano
Hall of Fame
I agree with you, Nole is a bad matchup for Nadal right now but only because Nole has the capacity to hurt Nadal's week point which is his backhands. Hope Nadal fixes that backhands soon!
It was actually in 1986 - the mid point of his pro career.
falkenburg
Banned
You conveniently ignore the fact that, prior to 2011, Nadal's superiority over Nole was exclusively on dirt-9-0 there, 7-7 every where else. Nole kicks his ass on ALL surfaces. Plus, players simply do not improve once they have about 600 matches under their belt(as Nadal now has), especially when they primarily employ the lovely grinding style used by him. Good luck with that "improve a few things" and "rediscover the 2010 serve," lol...
Mustard
Bionic Poster
All 7 of Djokovic's wins over Nadal before 2011 were all on hardcourt and all in 2 straight sets. None of the matches were in a major nor in a final. Any Nadal vs. Djokovic match at a major, or any epic match of theirs, would be won by Nadal, because Nadal had the edge in the intangibles like determination, fitness, focus. In 2011, Djokovic has become far better in those intangibles so Nadal's edge is no longer there. Djokovic used to be a guy with fitness problems when pressured, and would look up to the heavens when he lost an epic point. Now he's like the Terminator out there.
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DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
You forgot to mention Nadal's massive decline in 2011.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Not a massive decline, but a decline of the standard of his serve and backhand.
tenniselbow1
Rookie
The one trick wonder has a similar story with FEd as his H2H with Fed shows that 70% of his wins over Fed have been on clay (12/17). Fed like Nole leads Nadal in the other surfaces despite their 5 year age difference at this point which is remarkable in itself. Nole will be the first to reverse that clay court advantage Rafa holds against everyone and thus seriously vault up in their H2H numbers within a few years. Rafa's about to become someone's serious ***** the likes of Roddick and Davydenko were to Fed.
Magnificent!
New User
I'm suprised how many people doubt Nadal on here. You don't have to like him to appreciate how he has sucessfully changed his game from a claycourt specialist to an all court champion. Djokovic knows he won't have another year anywhere near like this one. He'll finish 2012 at number 3 or 4.
Clarky21
Banned
Cvac would have to have a monumental collapse for him to finish at anything but #1 next year. That is simply not going to happen,and to suggest it will almost qualifies one for a padded cell.
And Nadal has played like the dirt baller he is on every surface this year,and has done it badly at that. As it has been repeated a million times on here,he is playing in the stands he is so far behind the baseline,his shots are getting no depth,his backhand is a pos,and his serve is an even bigger pos. He's sucked all year long.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Seems only Djokovic brings out Nadal's shortcomings this season.:lol:
Magnificent!
New User
The points you make are true, Nadal didn't play well this year, his serve was off, hit lots of short balls, his b/h was poor, yet he still manages to have a good season. Djokovic played out of his skull all season, and only loses when he gets injured or tired. (Incidently, if he didn't take those two injury breaks in US final he would have lost. Just gamesmanship). Nadal definately won't suck next year, he always bounces back stronger, that's why he has won so much more than Djokovic. Nadal's only one year older too so what's Djokovic been upto to this point? Djokovic will struggle to maintain this level, just check the rest of his career. All this Rubbish about Nadal being a bad matchup for Federer too... He must be a bad matchup for everybody because he has to get to the final to actually play Federer doesn't he? Poor arguement for a player who is suposed to be GOAT?
falkenburg
Banned
You're "surprised how many people doubt Nadal on here?" How many consecutive losses to Nadal would it take to make you "un-surprised?" When Dominant Player A regularly beats Younger Player B, then suddenly B starts to win, you will find very few instances in tennis history where A re-established his dominance-in fact, other than McEnroe's turning things around briefly against Lendl ini '83-84, with the very notable exception of the '84 French Open (and Lendl just as quickly turned the tables again), I can't think of ANY-Connors vs Borg, Lendl, and Mac, Borg vs Mac, Mac vs Lendl, Becker vs Agassi-the list goes on. When Nadal was primed for revenge, on dirt, in front of his adoring home crowd, after ceding the AO and then getting beaten in arguably the two biggest non Slams, all on HC, but instead got smoked in straight sets both in Madrid and in Spain, that should have told you something. The losses at Wimbledon and the US Open were little more than formalities as a result.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic's injury break gave Nadal an extra 4-5 minutes of rest to recuperate for set #4. But Nadal was physically spent as we saw as he could no longer even sprint to the balls. So how do you imagine he would've won another 2 sets over Djokovic? Silly boy! :lol:
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Yup, a lot of these Nadal fans don't understand the sport of tennis. You don't simply get stomped 6 consecutive times and then tweak a few things and then start winning again.:lol: The problem Nadal faces is a bit deeper rooted than these fans want to believe.
falkenburg
Banned
TWO injury breaks??????????? Where was the 2nd one? He was clearly injured, as he spent the 4th set serving under 100mph (and a back injury would most likely manifest itself in serves and overheads), but is so far up Nadal's ass he crushed 6-1 anyway. And, as a Nadal fan, do you REALLY want to play the "he only loses when he's tired or injured and uses gamesmanship" card?!?! Especially when it was YOUR guy who was warned for illegal coaching. Please spare us your crystal ball about what would've happened had Nole not taken the time out, and if Nadal is that "upset" about such tactics that he went from a sure winner in your eyes to a 6-1 loser, I guess he's not quite as strong mentally as you and several others think, is he?
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
It was especially funny at the USO when Nadal would serve and the ball would return right to his feet, forcing him several steps back.
falkenburg
Banned
That's an excellent point which I forgot to mention. Don't confront him with facts, they make his head hurt...:smile::wink::grin:
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
So you compare a 20 year old Lendl who'd only been on the pro tour for 2 years to Nadal who is 25 and has been on the pro tour for 10 years now? :-?
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, never thought about that. Damn adrenaline rush! Always leaves you at the worst times.
Clarky21
Banned
The problem with your theory that Nadal will bounce back stronger is he is not 20 anymore. He is going to be 26 next year,and since he has declined so much already,what makes you think his situation is going to improve as he ages even further? He is only going to get worse,and next year he is going to have to try and defend all of those finals he made,and I can promise you he won't even come close. Nor will he win a slam next year,either.
I think people are going to be in for a shock at how far he is going to fall next year. As it is he is barely hanging onto the #2 spot. I don't think he will be able to hang onto it next year,and will fall even further down the rankings.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Oh yeah, that kinda reminds me of Nadal taking an MTO in the matches with Federer in Hamburg and Petschener at Wimbledon when things weren't looking so good.
falkenburg
Banned
I seriously doubt your figures on the 2.5 year period, as Mac mentioned in his book how one sided it it had become, and that he turned it around (using the word "somewhat" as I recall) after taking Don Budge's advice that he was only hitting to one half of the court in an effort to avoid Lendl's forehand. In any event, I said that was the only one I could thing of, in almost a 40 year period (Connors and Borg both turned pro in 1972, if memory serves), and if you're gonna hang your hat on that one occurrence, good luck...
falkenburg
Banned
Yeah, never thought about that. Damn adrenaline rush! Always leaves you at the worst times.
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:lol:falkenburg
Banned
Not to mention at the beginning of a tiebreaker against Del Potro-I didn't even know that **** was legal, and, it shouldn't be.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
What are you on about? I explained Nadal's loss of form in that fourth set, not trying to say Djokovic didn't win the match "legitimately". A win is a win.
You doubt my figures?
Here is their head-to-head, so see for yourself.
Ivan Lendl 21-15 John McEnroe
1980 Milan SF: John McEnroe def. Ivan Lendl (6-3, 1-6, 6-2)
1980 US Open QF: John McEnroe def. Ivan Lendl (4-6, 6-3, 6-2, 7-5)
1981 French Open QF: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (6-4, 6-4, 7-5)
1981 Davis Cup QF: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (6-4, 14-12, 7-5)
1982 Masters (Jan) SF: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (6-4, 6-2)
1982 WCT Dallas F: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (6-2, 3-6, 6-3, 6-3)
1982 Toronto SF: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (6-4, 6-4)
1982 US Open SF: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (6-4, 6-4, 7-6)
1983 Masters (Jan) F: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (6-4, 6-4, 6-2)
1983 Philadelphia F: John McEnroe def. Ivan Lendl (4-6, 7-6, 6-4, 6-3)
1983 WCT Dallas F: John McEnroe def. Ivan Lendl (6-2, 4-6, 6-3, 6-7, 7-6)
1983 Wimbledon SF: John McEnroe def. Ivan Lendl (7-6, 6-4, 6-4)
1983 San Francisco F: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (3-6, 7-6, 6-4)
1984 Masters (Jan) F: John McEnroe def. Ivan Lendl (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
1984 Philadelphia F: John McEnroe def. Ivan Lendl (6-3, 3-6, 6-3, 7-6)
1984 Brussels F: John McEnroe def. Ivan Lendl (6-1, 6-3)
1984 Forest Hills F: John McEnroe def. Ivan Lendl (6-4, 6-2)
1984 World Team Cup F: John McEnroe def. Ivan Lendl (6-3, 6-2)
1984 French Open F: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (3-6, 2-6, 6-4, 7-5, 7-5)
1984 US Open F: John McEnroe def. Ivan Lendl (6-3, 6-4, 6-1)
1985 Masters (Jan) F: John McEnroe def. Ivan Lendl (7-5, 6-0, 6-4)
1985 Forest Hills F: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (6-3, 6-3)
1985 World Team Cup F: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (6-7, 7-6, 6-3)
1985 Stratton Mountain F: John McEnroe def. Ivan Lendl (7-6, 6-2)
1985 Montreal F: John McEnroe def. Ivan Lendl (7-5, 6-3)
1985 US Open F: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (7-6, 6-3, 6-4)
1987 US Open QF: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (6-3, 6-3, 6-4)
1988 French Open R16: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (6-7, 7-6, 6-4, 6-4)
1989 Australian Open QF: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (7-6, 6-2, 7-6)
1989 WCT Dallas SF: John McEnroe def. Ivan Lendl (6-7, 7-6, 6-2, 7-5)
1989 Montreal F: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (6-1, 6-3)
1989 Masters RR: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (6-3, 6-3)
1990 Toronto Indoor SF: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (6-3, 6-2)
1990 Queen's Club SF: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (6-2, 6-4)
1991 Long Island SF: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (6-3, 7-5)
1992 Toronto QF: Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe (6-2, 6-4)
Unfinished match
1987 Stratton Mountain F: John McEnroe led Ivan Lendl (7-6, 1-4)
Hardcourt: 9-4 to Lendl (another match unfinished)
Clay: 5-2 to Lendl
Grass: 1-1
Carpet: 8-6 to McEnroe
In Slams: 7-3 to Lendl
falkenburg
Banned
I stand corrected, but a) I said this was the only one I could think in of in a period of nearly 40 years of such rivalries and that b) Lendl re-established with a vengeance, winning 10 of the last 11. I'd also submit that Nadal is slightly older now chronologically than Mac was in that temporary turnaround that started in '83, and significantly older in terms of wear and tear. Even that Mac had more of a Plan "B" (and a significant flaw in his game, refusing to hit to the forehand side, was easily correctable and it's amazing that he didn't realize it without Budge telling him ) than Nadal, unless Nadal comes back with that "wrist adjustment" that added about 20 mph to his serve...
_maxi
Banned
Well, he is an expert doing that to others, so why not give him a little of his own medicine?
Anyone Read Rafa's New book?
Rafa is a champion, and champions can't be written off.
Not to mention he's possibly the most mentally-tough tennis player ever to play the game.
I haven't yet gotten a chance to read his new memoir, but from what I've seen online, it's a good one. Anyone picked up a copy yet? Should I buy it, yes or no?
It's kind of expensive in hardcover right now, but articles like this one about the Secret to his Mental Toughness really make me want to spend the dough.
Don't ever write off Rafa.
Rafa is a champion, and champions can't be written off.
Not to mention he's possibly the most mentally-tough tennis player ever to play the game.
I haven't yet gotten a chance to read his new memoir, but from what I've seen online, it's a good one. Anyone picked up a copy yet? Should I buy it, yes or no?
It's kind of expensive in hardcover right now, but articles like this one about the Secret to his Mental Toughness really make me want to spend the dough.
Don't ever write off Rafa.
tenniselbow1
Rookie
MariaRafael
Banned
Nadal won a slam, a Masters event, and played in the other 2 slam finals and 4 masters finals. The only player who performed better than him was Djokovic. According to your words, Nadal can't play tennis. At all. What about the rest of the tour? They are no sportsmen, aren't they? Could you please use your brain (if any) before spilling your mean insults?
CocaCola
Professional
Bitter, **** post. I thought you're at least a little bit more objective.
As for the thread, we can only guess what will happen in 2012. It Djokovic maintains this level (I don't see the reason why not) than he'll continue to dominate Nadal. Rafa can sneak or or two and thats it.
On the other hand, if Nadal is able to improve his level and his tactics vs Novak (unlikely) then who knows, maybe he can turn things around a bit.
BULLZ1LLA
Banned
(I didn't even know Roddick had an Autobiography.
I saw on e b a y, Agassi's autobiography "Open" is only $9.70 brand new)
BULLZ1LLA
Banned
(It probably won't effect Nadal's slam count anyway, he'll still get 16 slams, whether he beats Djokovic or not. Federer and Djokovic are in the same half always, and Federer would still be favorite to beat Djokovic in at least 2 slams per year. The only issue is whether or not Federer makes the semis, and of course whether Nadal makes the semis [I am now confident of Nadal beating Murray in every semi they meet in]. If both make the semis then it should be Nadal vs Federer in 2 slams per year. I still consider Federer the favorite to beat Djokovic at RG, Wimbledon and maybe US Open)
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