Watching US Open Qualifying

[slowfox]

Since I decided this year to improve my weekend warrior hacker game, I thought I'd go watch live pro tennis as often possible, and see if I could learn something. Hopefully.

So... US Open Qualifying Rounds. This week I went and saw about 6 matches, and up close. For those who don't know, these rounds are free to attend. It's almost like a New York secret. Anyway...

Who did I see? No big names, of course. But I did a little research and discovered that some had been ranked in the top 100 at one point (one woman was even top 30s before). There was a former D1 college player, and others I couldn't find any info. They were all great players.

Here are some things I noticed:
1. They all strike a very solid ball. The sound was amazing. If we heard this on the public courts, we'd all stop to see who was making these nice thuds.
2. They are consistent. Balls stay in play longer. They do make unforced errors, and some silly ones too, but overall they are good at getting it back. My guess is that the top players are simply even more consistent (especially under pressure), and that's what separates the cream from the crop.
3. They hit deep balls. Rally shots often landed in the back third of the court. Every (and I mean EVERY) short ball was attacked, not necessarily as winners, but certainly taking the offensive and controlling the point. These pros know offense/defense, and who's doing what to whom. This is something I don't see with rec players.
4. Serves are hit harder than anything I've ever witnessed at the parks. One court had a radar, and the women on it were hitting first serves up to 110mph; second serves, 75-85mph. Don't know the numbers for the men I saw, but their serves looked faster. With both men and ladies, a lot more double faults than I expected though. I guess serve is tough for pros too.
5. Groundstrokes had power, but I will say that they didn't seem more so than some of the better rec players' strokes. The pro difference is placement and consistency. And in the matches I saw, most balls were hit flat or with mild topspin. Balls were just skimming over the net. Depth and pace seemed to be the priority, not topspin.
6. Didn't see any spectacular volleys. But most looked comfortable at net, nevertheless. And they all could put away the easy sitters. Again, consistency.
7. Footwork. This is what I really wanted to pay attention to, but unfortunately I don't have any insight on it. It just appeared as if these players all knew where they needed to be and were always ready to hit the shot. Somehow they got into the right position and timed the ball well, always hitting balanced and relaxed. I dunno how. Small adjustment steps, yes. But at times it looked like they didn't move at all, yet they were still there! My untrained eyes couldn't figure it out.
7. And for the TT racquet guys - I saw a lot of Babolats (the blue ones), 2 Prince EXO3 Tours, a Volkl PB10, a Prince 03 Black, a Yonex Vcore and an Ezone. The rest I couldn't identify. A few of the players would throw their racquets in frustration... haha. And one guy was really good at dribbling the ball with the edge of his frame.

So that's it. Perhaps nothing new here to the more seasoned players on TT. But for me I learned something. Now I'm just gonna concentrate on deep balls and upping my consistency. That's my lesson.

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

It must have been awe-inspiring!

The thing I notice most about pros is that: While most 4.5-5.5 can hit generally low-percentage cannonballs for a winner, pros hit 10-20 cannonballs in a sustained rally. And as you have already mentioned, the depth of the rally.

Also, the pros have glorious footwork. You can hit balls into the corner, and when the ball comes back to you, they're back in the middle again. Or they cut it off because they get to a corner. And you're back to chasing balls, thinking: "What the hell?! I thought I moved the dude into the corner!"

 

[TimothyO]

On the footwork thing I believe that it's not just good footwork but also good eyes and brains. When they make a shot they have a good idea about their opponent's best shot option coming back. They'll start moving to that spot the moment they strike the ball. So they have the time from their strike to their opponet's strike to move where they think the opponent will hit and then can adjust based on actual hit.

This why we often see pros seemingly running "away from The ball" when an opponent "easily" hits behind them. They know what the opponent's best precentage shot is GOING to be and start moving right away essentially daring the opponent to go for the low percentages shot since they know they can't be in two places at once.

Based on opponent racquet movement they can also get clues to where the ball will go. I've been trying this recently and it's even easier in our low paced doubles environment. One male opponent recently expressed astonishment at some of my poaches which were taken near the opposite alley. I simply watched his female partner's frame and knew where the ball was going to fly after impact which game me a huge head start on my run.

I tell my boys that to make tennis easier play the percentages (CC deep and fast, attack shorts hitting DTL), and execute in this order:

1. Brain: think about your shot placement and likely opponent response

2. Feet: start moving after your shot, don't wait around

3. Eyes: look for clues about opponent intention and look the ball into our strings

4. Body: hit with your body and not your arm or wrist for extra consistency and controllable power

This is the opposite of what most of us rec players do: stand glued to the court and then scramble after the ball is coming back over the net at which point we flick the ball back with our arm/wrist without really thinking about where the ball is going. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Limpinhitter]

* * *

7. Footwork. This is what I really wanted to pay attention to, but unfortunately I don't have any insight on it. It just appeared as if these players all knew where they needed to be and were always ready to hit the shot. Somehow they got into the right position and timed the ball well, always hitting balanced and relaxed. I dunno how. Small adjustment steps, yes. But at times it looked like they didn't move at all, yet they were still there! My untrained eyes couldn't figure it out.
7. And for the TT racquet guys - I saw a lot of Babolats (the blue ones), 2 Prince EXO3 Tours, a Volkl PB10, a Prince 03 Black, a Yonex Vcore and an Ezone. The rest I couldn't identify. A few of the players would throw their racquets in frustration... haha. And one guy was really good at dribbling the ball with the edge of his frame.

* * *

Shot preparation is everything in tennis. Obviously, you need to learn good technique. After that, shot preparation - being in as perfect position as possible to hit the ball, is the biggest difference in one level of play to the next.

 

[ark_28]

That must have been an amazing experience and very inspiring! Good for you to go there and see it first hand and I am sure you will be able to add things from what you have seen into your game

 

[5263]

3. They hit deep balls. Rally shots often landed in the back third of the court. Every (and I mean EVERY) short ball was attacked,

And in the matches I saw, most balls were hit flat or with mild topspin. Balls were just skimming over the net. Depth and pace seemed to be the priority, not topspin.

A ton of good observations and if they are accurate, the above may be why
they are qualifiers instead of direct entries. They have all been quite athletic
I imagine, so likely what separates them from the top pack are areas like what
you mention above.
Not sure what you think is deep or short, but often is it more the quality of the
shot more than the depth that determines how effective it will be.
They still play much like what rec players want to play, but good as they are
they tend to prove more how it does not work against other good players.

 

[arche3]

I watched 4 qualie matches and I observed the same. Flat shots. Deep.

But yesterday I saw tipsaravich play a practice match against felciciano lopez. They both hit the ball a lot higher over the net with a lot of top spin. Tons of spin. And shallower angles. Ferrer then came on and played Lopez. Same. Tons of spin and higher over the net.

And then sharapova played a practice a match against a Swedish player. She hit flat like the mens qualifier matches I saw. And deep.

Then I left for a bit for food. I came back and djokovick was hitting with his practice partner. Again. Tons of spin and higher over the net.

So its safe to say the top guys use more spin. Women dont.

Raonic against hauss. Raonic still has sick top spin. On a side court.

And I saw the lock and roll guy filming there as well

 

[swfh]

I watched 4 qualie matches and I observed the same. Flat shots. Deep.

But yesterday I saw tipsaravich play a practice match against felciciano lopez. They both hit the ball a lot higher over the net with a lot of top spin. Tons of spin. And shallower angles. Ferrer then came on and played Lopez. Same. Tons of spin and higher over the net.

And then sharapova played a practice a match against a Swedish player. She hit flat like the mens qualifier matches I saw. And deep.

Then I left for a bit for food. I came back and djokovick was hitting with his practice partner. Again. Tons of spin and higher over the net.

So its safe to say the top guys use more spin. Women dont.


And I saw the lock and roll guy filming there as well

We were in the same place. I was courtside, and got djokovics and Feds autograph. I don't know if the guys hit with as much spin as you think. I thought that ferrer, and tipsy had pretty flat strokes. Tipsy hit the ball very hard.

 

[arche3]

We were in the same place. I was courtside, and got djokovics and Feds autograph. I don't know if the guys hit with as much spin as you think. I thought that ferrer, and tipsy had pretty flat strokes. Tipsy hit the ball very hard.

The tragectories were straight when hit hard but they had tons of spin. Compared to the qualie guys no contest. I was court side as well. Qualie guys actually hit harder a lot of times.

 

[dominikk1985]

A ton of good observations and if they are accurate, the above may be why
they are qualifiers instead of direct entries. They have all been quite athletic
I imagine, so likely what separates them from the top pack are areas like what
you mention above.
Not sure what you think is deep or short, but often is it more the quality of the
shot more than the depth that determines how effective it will be.
They still play much like what rec players want to play, but good as they are
they tend to prove more how it does not work against other good players.

what do you mean? they are qualifiers because they attack short balls?

or do you mean that the hit deep flat drives instead of spinny balls?

 

[InspectorRacquet]

The biggest thing I've seen about live play is that the better player often doesn't hit all that hard (relatively, that is). The weaker pro will smack the ball, but the better pro will just hit it back with his standard ground stroke that has a lot of spin and redirect it. The pros good pros know that pace =/= good shot. It's the combination of spin and pace.

The women tend to hit very flat, though...

 

[5263]

what do you mean? they are qualifiers because they attack short balls?

or do you mean that the hit deep flat drives instead of spinny balls?

No, they may be qualifiers if they attack EVERY short ball (I mean every short ball),
which means they can't distinguish between an attackable short ball and challenging short ball.

If the hit flat and deep they will suffer too many UE's to compete at the top level
today. Not sure what you mean by spinny, but heavy biting TS shots tend dominate
the mens tour at the top. All the big 4 hit med depth and heavier TS on avg
on rally balls.

 

[5263]

The biggest thing I've seen about live play is that the better player often doesn't hit all that hard (relatively, that is). The weaker pro will smack the ball, but the better pro will just hit it back with his standard ground stroke that has a lot of spin and redirect it. The pros good pros know that pace =/= good shot. It's the combination of spin and pace.

The women tend to hit very flat, though...

Good observation in most cases.

 

[swfh]

The tragectories were straight when hit hard but they had tons of spin. Compared to the qualie guys no contest. I was court side as well. Qualie guys actually hit harder a lot of times.

Which guy were you? I had the iPad.

 

[arche3]

Which guy were you? I had the iPad.

I was right behind the right chair. About 3 rows back.

But during djoko autograph signing my son saw someone's iPad get trampled. Was it your?!

He was in front by then on the rail. He got everyone's signature on his hat yesterday! He was so excited. Only one he didn't get was sharapova. She passes him up and signed the kid next to him. *****! Lol.... I told my kid next year he needs to challenge djoko to a game. Great sport of him to bring that kid out onto court.

Did you say hello to the lock and roll guy? I didn't because he was further up to video and I didn't want to lose our place to get the autographs.

 

[swfh]

I was right behind the right chair. About 3 rows back.

But during djoko autograph signing my son saw someone's iPad get trampled. Was it your?!

He was in front by then on the rail. He got everyone's signature on his hat yesterday! He was so excited. Only one he didn't get was sharapova. She passes him up and signed the kid next to him. *****! Lol.... I told my kid next year he needs to challenge djoko to a game. Great sport of him to bring that kid out onto court.

Did you say hello to the lock and roll guy? I didn't because he was further up to video and I didn't want to lose our place to get the autographs.

It was not my ipad, the that girl was directly to my right. I recall 2 kids that hat autographs on a hat, one had a play station phone. I had the Phoenix suns bag

 

[arche3]

It was not my ipad, the that girl was directly to my right. I recall 2 kids that hat autographs on a hat, one had a play station phone. I had the Phoenix suns bag

The Asian kid with the hat was my son. He is 11 but looks like he is 13 or 14. 5'4" tall. I was still 4 or so rows back. Dont want to get squished. But my son fought his way up there.

Small world. Lol.

 

[Nostradamus]

any recordings of this

 

[swfh]

any recordings of this

Recordings of what?

 

[CoachingMastery]

If you like those qualies, head down to Indian Wells, California, for the BNP...the practice courts and the qualies are so much more accessible as are the pros.

So much so that you can get autographs of most of the players in one day.

But watching the top pros--as well as those in the qualifying rounds--is a real eye opener for the typical tennis player.

Most would be surprised to see the number of dead ball drills that pro's coaches will run the player through as well as the footwork drills done by each.

I was on the court with Kim Clijsters (who was hitting with one of my students each day of the tournament...which she won and became #1 in the world after that event), next to us were players like Safin, Haas, Santoro, etc. The work ethic that each player put in is something that I wish every high school student or junior player could witness.

Yes, you don't get to that level without putting in some real dedication and effort!

 

[tennis_balla]

Dave, could you please share some of the dead ball drills that they did?

 

[user92626]

I tell my boys that to make tennis easier play the percentages (CC deep and fast, attack shorts hitting DTL), and execute in this order:

1. Brain: think about your shot placement and likely opponent response

2. Feet: start moving after your shot, don't wait around

3. Eyes: look for clues about opponent intention and look the ball into our strings

4. Body: hit with your body and not your arm or wrist for extra consistency and controllable power

This is the opposite of what most of us rec players do: stand glued to the court and then scramble after the ball is coming back over the net at which point we flick the ball back with our arm/wrist without really thinking about where the ball is going. Rinse and repeat.

Man, there are different levels of rec players. At a more advanced level people play very proficiently. They look like they have all the skills of the pro minus the speed and intensity and sometimes completion. Still, the heart of recreational tennis is fun and recreation. It defeats the purpose if you have to work as hard as pros.

It sounds nice when people watch pros and want to do what they do, but it's never realistic or applicable. To do what pros do, you need to have similar resources and training. In the end, what's most successful for rec players is to play on their own games, own strength however crappy they look comparing to pros.

 

[CoachingMastery]

Dave, could you please share some of the dead ball drills that they did?

I was actually surprised at this: Some of the drills are drills I have done for years:

1. Toss back and forth to the forehand and backhand groundstroke, standing just in front of the player, having them hit down the line or cross court. (The coach stands right in front of the pro.)

2. Dead ball drops to the same stroke but hitting two specific angles: dtl and cc over and over.

3. Tosses back behind the pro having them move back and drive the ball cc or dtl while moving back.

4. Dead ball drops with the player moving forward on each drop...the coach moving also towards the net on each drop so the player is moving more forward on each shot having to hit with more spin and getting the ball to drop inside the court more as they get closer to the net. (I first saw this drill done by Boletterie with some top ranked juniors years ago and now have seen coaches working with pros on the drill.

Of course, the majority of their work out is hitting cc and dtl shots with a hitting partner, playing points, working stroke sequences, etc. But, I was very surprised to see the number of pros working dead ball drills too!

 

[tennis_balla]

I was actually surprised at this: Some of the drills are drills I have done for years:

1. Toss back and forth to the forehand and backhand groundstroke, standing just in front of the player, having them hit down the line or cross court. (The coach stands right in front of the pro.)

2. Dead ball drops to the same stroke but hitting two specific angles: dtl and cc over and over.

3. Tosses back behind the pro having them move back and drive the ball cc or dtl while moving back.

4. Dead ball drops with the player moving forward on each drop...the coach moving also towards the net on each drop so the player is moving more forward on each shot having to hit with more spin and getting the ball to drop inside the court more as they get closer to the net. (I first saw this drill done by Boletterie with some top ranked juniors years ago and now have seen coaches working with pros on the drill.

Of course, the majority of their work out is hitting cc and dtl shots with a hitting partner, playing points, working stroke sequences, etc. But, I was very surprised to see the number of pros working dead ball drills too!

Perfect, thanks for the response.

I also saw a lot of hand fed drills being done during a WTA Challenger tournament here in Prague. Simple ones, like you mentioned.

One of the Chinese players would set up a line of small cones about 3ft inside the singles sideline and running parallel with it. Coach would feed her wide balls backhand only and then switch sides to forehand. Then she'd do the same going crosscourt but the cones would be at an angle according to her shot and at a specific spot where she wanted her balls to land and angle out of the court. Coach would work her movement, balance and recovery during the drill with how the balls were fed, deep and short. Hope I explained that well enough.

 

[maverick66]

I was very surprised to see the number of pros working dead ball drills too!

Its not really that surprising as its just working muscle memory. Its learning how to move, hit, recover over and over. Its very difficult to do that with live ball as errors come in and you just dont get a consistent placement all the time.

When in a match your not thinking about moving a certain way so drilling it over and over takes care of that as the body knows what to do.

 

[CoachingMastery]

Its not really that surprising as its just working muscle memory. Its learning how to move, hit, recover over and over. Its very difficult to do that with live ball as errors come in and you just dont get a consistent placement all the time.

When in a match your not thinking about moving a certain way so drilling it over and over takes care of that as the body knows what to do.

I agree...however, when I first saw this about ten years ago, I had been 'informed' by so many of my fellow teaching pros, (who were totally ignorant of what actually occurs on the ATP/WTA tours!), that only live ball practice was instituted.

We see these drills that condition the muscle memory you mentioned, even at these high levels...which makes perfect sense because at these levels the demand for precision responses is keen, to say the least.

I've been including dead ball and pro-fed drills for decades even to my top-ranked players up to world-ranked ones, knowing how these were critical to maintaining top form in addition to the live ball hitting done extensively.

 

[Ash_Smith]

^^^I remember being on court next to an up coming Russian girl at Wimbledon a (fair) few years back. Her practice was all single feeds from the coach, 10 cross court forehands, 10 DTL forehands, 10 cross court backhands, 10 DTL backhands, 10 forehand volleys, 10 backhand volleys, 10 smashes, 10 serves deuce side, 10 serves Ad side. All aimed at a towel the coach placed on court. Whole practice took maybe 15 minutes and that was their daily routine! She made semi's that year I think!

The Spanish have been championing hand feeding for many, many years with guys like Pato and Jofre Porta.

Cheers

 

[MLB_MOB]

I went this year also, and as for the OP's 3rd statement this was not the case with the matches I saw. I saw Allesandro Gianessi vs a player from the dominican republic and they both spun the crap out of the ball unless they were attacking short balls. It depends really on the way the players play.

P.S. MAVERICK GO ON SKYPE YOU CRAFTY ROUGE

 

[maverick66]

P.S. MAVERICK GO ON SKYPE YOU CRAFTY ROUGE

I totally would if I could remember my skype name.

 

[MLB_MOB]

I totally would if I could remember my skype name.

Its the same as your LoL name