Watson proves GOLF is not a sport..

SempreSami

Hall of Fame
Didn't a fossilised Jimmy Connors have a run at the US Open.

These things can happen in a fair number of sports.
 

dParis

Hall of Fame
Huh? Where did you play keeper?
Not professional, Lucky, but organized.

IMO the definition of sport would include: some sort of scoring, some sort of offense vs defense and some sort of physical activity.
By your definition, track and field are not sports.

I think that what most of the deniers are trying to say is that golf is not a cardiovascularly taxing game but they invent their own definition of sport so that golf is not included. It's a very narrow perspective held by non-players (once every couple of months) and children who's daddy's would spend Sundays on the golf course instead of time with the family. ;-)
 
btw/fyi: cigarettes are often called "heaters" on the golf course

so if your pulling for a 59 yr old man, would you also pull for an overweight, cigarette smoking golfer?
"Smoking golfer?"

Ok, fair enough. Now could you please ask your "golf is not a sport" amigo Azzurri this question:

Azzurri: love the Pete Sampras avatar--now, could you please tell your fraternally-minded friend jgn1013 exactly what the heck Pistol Pete is holding in his left hand and what he's doing with that "thing?" Thx.

jgn1013: it was a known fact that Yannick Noah (and other tennis pros) smoked cigarettes. It was later revealed by Yannick that he on occassion smoked some 'buds' prior to playing matches. And Suzanne "Le Grand Nose" Lenglen wasn't above taking a snort of brandy during changeovers. You can say: "that was then, this is now" all you want but the simple fact remains: those great French Open CHAMPIONS are inextricably tied to the great "sport" we know as tennis.

p.s.: and to the poster who said that golf's not a sport based on the "fact" that you can play it hammered: you could play tennis 'hammered' as well but you'll play it horribly, just like you would golf, meaning:

DO ENOUGH OF THIS:



YOU WILL END UP LOOKING LIKE THIS:
 

Azzurri

Legend
You will probably encounter a lot less resistance and have fewer communication problems if you throw out your incorrect opinions about words and go by the actual consensus, dictionary definitions of words.

It makes a lot more sense to accept that your operative definition of "sport" is in fact incorrect and learn the correct one than it does to continue ranting.

It's just a word. There's nothing wrong with thinking golf is a crappy sport.
do you have any idea how many people believe golf to be more of an activity than a sport? my opinion is mine, but a dictionary definition also included fishing...so fishing is a sport??? You are truly clueless.
 

Azzurri

Legend
couldn't resist,
so according to your definition,

track shouldn't be a sport either.
track is a a bit tricky I guess. But in track events you do race against someone and they can directly affect you (like 3 and 5 K runs). But track takes endurance, strength and other "athletic" skills...unlike golf/fishing/darts/chess, etc.
 

Azzurri

Legend
she won a mixed doubles title at the US Open not too long ago, (2 years ago maybe?)

just curious, do you consider baseball a sport? As far as "sports" go, it's not that physical.

It seems like your arguement is that it's not a sport if you can't play defense, do I understand that correctly? Is track a sport? cycling? Nascar? (I personally hate nascar and don't consider it a sport, but just curious as to your opinion)
don't get me wrong, what Martina did is a great achievement. but doubles is much different than singles. way, way easier on the body.

yes, baseball is sport but its less "physical" than most other sports.

Track is a sport because of the endurance, strength, and athleticism (golf is more skill than anything else). Cycling is a sport much like track, but I don't consider Nascar a sport. It's driving a car..fast.
 

Azzurri

Legend
"Smoking golfer?"

Ok, fair enough. Now could you please ask your "golf is not a sport" amigo Azzurri this question:

Azzurri: love the Pete Sampras avatar--now, could you please tell your fraternally-minded friend jgn1013 exactly what the heck Pistol Pete is holding in his left hand and what he's doing with that "thing?" Thx.

jgn1013: it was a known fact that Yannick Noah (and other tennis pros) smoked cigarettes. It was later revealed by Yannick that he on occassion smoked some 'buds' prior to playing matches. And Suzanne "Le Grand Nose" Lenglen wasn't above taking a snort of brandy during changeovers. You can say: "that was then, this is now" all you want but the simple fact remains: those great French Open CHAMPIONS are inextricably tied to the great "sport" we know as tennis.

p.s.: and to the poster who said that golf's not a sport based on the "fact" that you can play it hammered: you could play tennis 'hammered' as well but you'll play it horribly, just like you would golf, meaning:

DO ENOUGH OF THIS:



YOU WILL END UP LOOKING LIKE THIS:
dedan..I may be misunderstanding your question..are you talking about the pic above? That is Angel Cabrera, not Petey.
 

rosenstar

Professional
track is a a bit tricky I guess. But in track events you do race against someone and they can directly affect you (like 3 and 5 K runs). But track takes endurance, strength and other "athletic" skills...unlike golf/fishing/darts/chess, etc.
darts requires coordination, surely that is an athletic skill? Golf requires both strength and coordination.

just curious, do you consider baseball a sport? As far as "sports" go, it's not that physical.

It seems like your arguement is that it's not a sport if you can't play defense, do I understand that correctly? Is Nascar a sport? (I personally hate nascar and don't consider it a sport, but just curious as to your opinion)
 

SuperJimmy

Rookie
In my opinion, any physical activity that high schools and colleges classify as a sport, and play competetively against other schools, should be considered a sport. Golf, gymnastics, lacrosse, you name it.

But yeah...I can see how if a senior citizen or an obese person is able to win, or get close to winning a big tournament, it does make it harder to accept it as being in the same "league" as things like basketball, football, soccer, or tennis where the top performers are "generally" around 20-34 age range, and in top shape. Does Larry Bird have a chance to take on Kobe right now? No. Is Jerry Rice going to run a faster 40 or catch more TDs than Larry Fitzgerald right now? No. Is Maradona going to have a chance to dribble the ball past Messi right now? No. Can McEnroe beat Federer right now? No.

It's true, golf uses a different skillset than other more physical sports, where age probably has a far less effect on performance, but that doesnt mean it is not a sport. Come on, it's not like it's chess.

I will, however, never acknowledge penguin waddling, I mean speed walking, as a sport.
 
dedan..I may be misunderstanding your question..are you talking about the pic above? That is Angel Cabrera, not Petey.
Azzurri (again, very nice "Pistol Pete" avatar); I do like it; I was playfully running with jgn1013's "smoking" angle...meaning that both Angel and Pete were/are in pubic exposing themselves as 'smokers'.....along with Yannick and Suzanne....granted in an over-the-top fashion.

Fedace: could the reigning Olympic Super-Heavyweight Weight-Lifting Champion beat 'Tiger' in a 50-yard dash?

Again, get a club, put yourself in a 220-yard-to-the-pin position in the midst of wet fescue (with the "golf world" watching) and then see if you have the 'athletic' skills to blast that sucker into the same mailing zip code. I was of the "golf is NOT a sport" fraternity....after playing Ballybunion, Lahinch, Tain, Nairn et al, I've changed my take on this. The "local" course (www.sleepyhollowcc.org) compared to what Watson faced in Scotland (relatively good weather notwithstanding) is/was a piece of cake compare to those links.

Try this one: you're an "American-Football" place kicker (whose "soccer-style" monopedic approach/execution has a golf-type "swing" associated with it):

down by 2.....30 seconds to go....you're kicking for the visiting team in a very hostile enviornment.....45 yards (long, but not impossible).....are you an "athlete?".....playing a "sport?"

Your 50 "football" teammates have been getting their butts beat up for the previous 50minutes:30seconds: it's now all up to YOU:

forget the "220-yard-blast-out-of-the-wet-fescue" GOLF scenario ...... YOU are now going to decide whether those "football-major-macho-sport" teammates of yours are either going to win a Super Bowl ring (and the winner's check)....or not?

So: again, 18th hole, a "major" on the line...tied with Tiger heading toward "the green" ... competition? ..... my previous post "Muffy-grill" factor notwithstanding?

Again, I'm not a "Headless Horseman'd-popped-collar" golf addict, but:

"skills" are "skills"

Try it. 220-in-wet-grass-to-the-pin. Believe me, it ain't a "sitter-at-net" put a way....again,,,,jus' IMHO,,,
 
Last edited:

aimr75

Hall of Fame
really? so you provide a definition based on someone else's opinion on what a sport is? ok...whatever.:rolleyes:
id bet youve used the dictionary on more then one occasion and never questioned how a word has been defined. Considering how wide spread and popular the dictionary is, its use in academia etc, it has merit. The dictionary represents the widely accepted view of what words mean

the for and against can be argued all day long since its only ever based on opinion, to that end, its almost pointless
 

Ultra2HolyGrail

Hall of Fame
Tennis is not a sport because a 35yo Agassi could compete with the best in the world. There is no way a 35yo track and field runner would ever be able to compete at the olympics at 35yo.. That means tennis is not a sport.
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
Tennis is not a sport because a 35yo Agassi could compete with the best in the world. There is no way a 35yo track and field runner would ever be able to compete at the olympics at 35yo.. That means tennis is not a sport.
Swimming is not a sport either. That 42 year old was very competitive at the olympics.

And as I said, Foreman proved boxing is not a sport.

Now you say tennis is not a sport. What's left?
 

Azzurri

Legend
id bet youve used the dictionary on more then one occasion and never questioned how a word has been defined. Considering how wide spread and popular the dictionary is, its use in academia etc, it has merit. The dictionary represents the widely accepted view of what words mean

the for and against can be argued all day long since its only ever based on opinion, to that end, its almost pointless
I understand what you are saying, but there are some words in the dictionary that can be argued..one of them is golf.
 

Azzurri

Legend
Tennis is not a sport because a 35yo Agassi could compete with the best in the world. There is no way a 35yo track and field runner would ever be able to compete at the olympics at 35yo.. That means tennis is not a sport.
that is actually a very bad example. So then Hockey (Gordie Howe), Baseball (many players played wll into their late 30's), Football (many players were still excellent in their mid-late 30's) and basketball (again, many players) are not sports? 35 is a bit different than 59.
 

Ultra2HolyGrail

Hall of Fame
35 is a bit different than 59.
So can we add baseball to the list? Satchell page was 59 and played in the majors. Oldest baseball players to play over 45.


59 - Satchel Paige (1965)
57 - Nick Altrock (1933)
50 - Jack Quinn (1933)
49 - Hoyt Wilhelm (1972)
48 - Phil Niekro (1987)[1]
46 - Nolan Ryan (1993)
46 - Jesse Orosco (2003)
46 - Charlie Hough (1994)
46 - Tommy John (1989)
46 - Hod Lisenbee (1945)
46 - Jamie Moyer (Active as of 2009)
45 - Roger Clemens (Inactive since 2008, but not officially retired)
45 - Gaylord Perry (1983)
45 - Fred Johnson (1939)
45 - Ted Lyons (1946)
45 - Randy Johnson (Active as of 2009)
 

Deuce

Banned
Gordie Howe played in the NHL at age 51 or 52 in 1980.

And it wasn't a one-game novelty act - he played the entire season, and previous to that, had played 31 consecutive seasons in either the NHL, or the WHA (a league set up to rival the NHL). He played 25 seasons in the NHL, and 6 in the WHA.
 

Azzurri

Legend
Gordie Howe played in the NHL at age 51 or 52 in 1980.

And it wasn't a one-game novelty act - he played the entire season, and previous to that, had played 31 consecutive seasons in either the NHL, or the WHA (a league set up to rival the NHL). He played 25 seasons in the NHL, and 6 in the WHA.
you still miss the point. Watson should have won a MAJOR. Gordie Howe "playing" at 51 is not the same. If Gordie had come in close second for the Hart Trophy or won the MVP in the Stanley Cup then it would be the same.

50 year old golfers play pro tourney's all the time..nothing special. but 50+(near 60) pro golfers don't win majors. That is the point. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Watson should have won. he is 60 years old. there is not a true sport in the world where a 60 year old could win a major championship. Golf is a skills game and nothing more..ask John Daly a 2 time major champ and beer drinking, 3 pack a day smoker.
 

jonnythan

Professional
you still miss the point. Watson should have won a MAJOR. Gordie Howe "playing" at 51 is not the same. If Gordie had come in close second for the Hart Trophy or won the MVP in the Stanley Cup then it would be the same.
Winning a Major is absolutely not the equivalent of winning the Hart Trophy.

Come back with that argument when Watson is ranked #1 in the world.

Tom Watson is currently #105 and that will likely be dropping right back down again.

Gordie put up 96 points in pro hockey when he was 50 years old.
 
well if competitive eating, it a sport why wouldnt golf be, it consists of precise mental and physical control and it is competitive the exact definiton of a sport;
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
Look, this is really simple. Golf is not a sport because an 8 time former champion did "pretty good" one time after he had exceeded an unknown / unspecified age barrier.

Sheesh!!! If you need more than that, you are clueless.
 

Ultra2HolyGrail

Hall of Fame
again...clueless.:roll:
Clueless? YOU are the one that started this thread. YOU are the one who is in every golf is not a sport thread crying like a girl all day. YOU are the one who tried VERY hard to get good at golf, spent lots of money on clubs etc etc to only quite playing because you where no good, at said heck with it, it's not even a sport anyway. Sound about right?
 

Azzurri

Legend
Clueless? YOU are the one that started this thread. YOU are the one who is in every golf is not a sport thread crying like a girl all day. YOU are the one who tried VERY hard to get good at golf, spent lots of money on clubs etc etc to only quite playing because you where no good, at said heck with it, it's not even a sport anyway. Sound about right?
amazing...you are completely clueless. Once again, with almost everything else, you are 100% wrong.
 

Azzurri

Legend
Winning a Major is absolutely not the equivalent of winning the Hart Trophy.

Come back with that argument when Watson is ranked #1 in the world.

Tom Watson is currently #105 and that will likely be dropping right back down again.

Gordie put up 96 points in pro hockey when he was 50 years old.
that is your opinion. Gordie is an exception. How many other athletes competed and was amongt the best in their 50's?? the only "sport" that allows this is golf and that is why I don't consider it a sport.

you know, I am giving reasons why i don't think golf is a sport, but you think it is because its in a definition that a huge % of the population disagree with. Even Bryant Gumbel made a point in the end of his Real Sports show. While he seemd to think golf is a sport, it was more about his similiar age with Watson and almost winning a major than anything else.

I played golf and I don't consider it a sport.
 

ambro

Professional
Any game you can play hammered off your ass is not a sport.
You can play tennis hammered off your ass, you just won't be very good. Trust me, I've tried. Same with golf. You can (most recreational males do) play drunk, but it usually doesn't end up well. Golf is a sport, or a recreation, it just depends on HOW one plays. Professional golfers do not drink while they play (save maybe Daly, but he doesn't count). Neither do professional tennis players, or any professional athletes that I know of. This was not an intelligent comment.
 

ambro

Professional
that is your opinion. Gordie is an exception. How many other athletes competed and was amongt the best in their 50's?? the only "sport" that allows this is golf and that is why I don't consider it a sport.

you know, I am giving reasons why i don't think golf is a sport, but you think it is because its in a definition that a huge % of the population disagree with. Even Bryant Gumbel made a point in the end of his Real Sports show. While he seemd to think golf is a sport, it was more about his similiar age with Watson and almost winning a major than anything else.

I played golf and I don't consider it a sport.
Gordie is an exception, JUST LIKE WATSON IS AN EXCEPTION. He is not consistently at the top of the leaderboard, and neither are ANY players over the age of 50. Watson is NOT among his best in his 50's. He had ONE good tournament at a course that suits his game perfectly. He even said himself he would not be able to play the Masters because the course doesn't fit him. I doubt he'd make the cut there.

You're giving reasons why you don't think golf is a sport, but pretty much all of them are either illogical, or can apply to most any other sports.

Dumb.
 

Azzurri

Legend
Gordie is an exception, JUST LIKE WATSON IS AN EXCEPTION. He is not consistently at the top of the leaderboard, and neither are ANY players over the age of 50. Watson is NOT among his best in his 50's. He had ONE good tournament at a course that suits his game perfectly. He even said himself he would not be able to play the Masters because the course doesn't fit him. I doubt he'd make the cut there.

You're giving reasons why you don't think golf is a sport, but pretty much all of them are either illogical, or can apply to most any other sports.

Dumb.
LOL..you must have missed something. The prior post noted that Howe scored 96 points at the age of 51...that is incredible...But how clueless are you? You stated it well...Watson is NOT among the best in his 50's and he had ONE good tourney...that is why golf is not a true sport. If it were, watson would not even have competed...what is it you don't get?
 

Azzurri

Legend
You can play tennis hammered off your ass, you just won't be very good. Trust me, I've tried. Same with golf. You can (most recreational males do) play drunk, but it usually doesn't end up well. Golf is a sport, or a recreation, it just depends on HOW one plays. Professional golfers do not drink while they play (save maybe Daly, but he doesn't count). Neither do professional tennis players, or any professional athletes that I know of. This was not an intelligent comment.
neither is yours and I think you are a liar. Lots of people play with beers in them on the golf course..its basically normal. But in tennis??? If you played "drunk" then that is not normal. Who could possibly run around drunk? You can't even walk straight drunk, but I guess you are special; you can play tennis drunk. Good for you. Intelligent??? Not you.
 

ambro

Professional
LOL..you must have missed something. The prior post noted that Howe scored 96 points at the age of 51...that is incredible...But how clueless are you? You stated it well...Watson is NOT among the best in his 50's and he had ONE good tourney...that is why golf is not a true sport. If it were, watson would not even have competed...what is it you don't get?
Now you're just trying to pick arguments. There is no way this can make sense, even in your head.

Howe scored 96 points at age 51, it's incredible. Watson plays a good tourney at age 59, also incredible. Both are something you don't often (read: never) see, but they happened, and they are exceptions to the norm. Watson is still having a good year, but not his BEST. In Howe's case, 96 points was FAR from his best, considering he did it on a MINOR LEAGUE TEAM. They are basically the exact same comparison, but you have it set in your mind that golf isn't a sport, so you twist details in your brain to "prove" your point, but all you're actually doing is making yourself look like an ignoramus.

You say he shouldn't have competed at his age if golf were a sport. How was Gordie Howe able to compete, even excel, in hockey at his age? Hockey must not be a sport! Both are 50+ years old, and don't even try to say there is a difference in excelling in a sport between ages 51 and 59. Basically the same situation. Do you not see how hypocritical this is?
neither is yours and I think you are a liar. Lots of people play with beers in them on the golf course..its basically normal. But in tennis??? If you played "drunk" then that is not normal. Who could possibly run around drunk? You can't even walk straight drunk, but I guess you are special; you can play tennis drunk. Good for you. Intelligent??? Not you.
Way to address the comment. Calling me a liar. I'll go cry in my corner.

To address your point, I'll try to make this as thorough as possible. Many people play drunk on the golf course, I agree. Those who do are recreational golfers. They play golf as an activity, much like I'm sure you do, and consider the entire sport of golf to be an activity because of this. Golfing drunk is normal to THEM only. Just because recreational players play drunk doesn't mean all golfers at all levels play drunk.

When I said I played tennis drunk, I was playing it as an activity. I was not playing a competitive match. Does this mean that tennis is not a sport, at all levels? Absolutely not. In competitive matches, tennis is without doubt a sport. Similarly, when golfers are playing drunk, it is an activity. They're out having a good time, relaxing, playing some golf with their buddies. However, in competitive rounds (matches, tournaments, etc.), you don't see alcohol being consumed. People do not play drunk. Golf is a SPORT in this situation, without a doubt.

Keep telling yourself golf is an activity, a game, however you'd like to word it to imply it's not a sport, because the game AS YOU KNOW IT, is not a sport. However, in competitive situations, golf is just as much a sport as tennis, hockey, football, or anything else you consider to be a sport.

Basically, my point is that as many people know it, golf IS just a game, an activity. But to say that it's not a sport at the PGA Tour level, or even as low as the competitive High School level, is absurd. Many people go out to the courts with a buddy to hit the ball around, and tennis is an activity TO THEM. But everyone here plays tennis competitively. No doubt, it is a sport to everyone on this board.

Get it?
 

Ultra2HolyGrail

Hall of Fame
John daly, babe ruth, what's the difference? Babe ruth could of moonwalked around the bases and azzuri would still claim baseball is a sport, and the babe was 'once' in shape. He really is clueless, it's amazing. It's even more funny with him trying to play with ps85's, because his idol sampras played with it, and even a ultra2 because of me :) I seen he fleabayed that heavy weapon though. :)
 

JRstriker12

Hall of Fame
If you can win after having a hip replacement, it's not a sport.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/29/opinion/29friedman.html?_r=2

Of course, Watson has unique golfing skills, but if you are a baby boomer you could not help but look at him and say something you would never say about Tiger or Kobe: “He’s my age; he’s my build; he’s my height; and he even had his hip replaced like me. If he can do that, maybe I can do something like that, too.”
 
Top