Wawrinka : Uncle Toni coaches too much

[mule250]

This is gold. Being "sometimes quite a sore loser and taking digs at opponents", which of course is 'sometimes' exaggerated and even made up just to make headlines, versus getting involved with an action which is against the rules, an action that actually affects the game.

Mind you, I don't see Nadal as a "cheater" in any way. I think he's a great guy on and off the court. However, that does not take away the fact that he has been involved with stuff that can directly influence the match. I don't think it's so severe and it clearly doesn't happen every match.

With Federer, he clearly had his moments in the past where he made bad comments and/or looked like a complete fool (saying this as a fan), but again this is clearly not so severe that you can outright call him a "sore loser". He's a pretty pleasant guy and is clearly respected by nearly every player on the tour. Dare I say the sportsmanship award is a valid example to this, the candidates are not picked by the players, but the final pick is clearly theirs.

As is the norm in such things people make a huge deal whenever something "wrong" is done, and the times where something wrong is not done or the moments where something "right" is done are forgotten (this applies to both Fed and Rafa obviously).

The real issue on your post (Crisstti) is that you're trying to take moral high ground for two things that is clearly not the norm for either player. But even if it would be the norm there's something very fishy of the way Nadal is defended here (just as it always stinks when Fed says something stupid and people rush to defend him) . And, much to my amusement I have to say, there's downright something absurd about the tendency to immediately turn the finger on Stan as a "sore loser", and claim the guy said what he said just because he lost. So the player who actually played the match says something happened that shouldn't have happened. He's probably not outright lying, and the people mentioned have a certain history of the action. So we all know that it probably did happen, but it's ok to call him a 'sore loser' and make it look like he's the actualy wrong-doer here. Hmm...

great post... unfortnately shows how this forum works. an unbiased post full of common sense and no one replies lol

 

[sdont]

Quite funny how some people jump on Stan for being a sore loser when Nadal is actually one of the (rare) players who do get a code violation warning for on-court coaching sometimes.

And then you have the ones who take the approach "the responsibility is on the umpires to enforce the rule". Wonder if these are the same who spit on umpires when they give a code violation warning to Nadal.

 

[TheTruth]

Yeah this is right on. Iv'e just never seen it, ever, on TV. Not in Wimbledon, not in the 2010 US Open when the camera was right in Toni's face all match, never. Not saying it doesn't happen, but why is this never shown on TV? On the contrary, I've seen other coaches saying things, including Djokovic's coach.

I also remember when Nadal played Verdasco at the 09 Aussie Open and all we saw all match was Verdasco screaming and talking directly with his coaches, openly! Then Nadal got an informal warning for coaching, and Nadal said "My coach?! Are you seeing what's going on over there?"

Here it is. Boom:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9FnV82E0fM

Nadal is just singled out. It goes on constantly, visibly so. Yet there is zero video evidence of this happening with Nadal. Wish I could see it myself. It also doesn't explain how Nadal wins plenty of tournaments without Toni around (if he supposedly needs him). It's all just insanity.

Oh, I know. What's even funnier is that you're supposed to listen to and believe known haters.

I've seen too many coaches giving signals, talking, and gesturing. So these people can go where they'll never need a tan, as far as I'm concerned.

That's the hilarious part.

 

[TheTruth]

Nadal, before 2005, was an unknown spanish claycourter who barely spoke English,picked his ***,dressed in a weird way and hung around the 40th spot on tour(or even lower sometimes). In a way, he was that ecuadorian that you are talking about. You can bet your *** that he was getting coached back then as well(unless you believe that Tony magically started coaching him in 2005) and yet umps ignored him. Actually, I think he got more coaching warnings when he was famous then when he was an unknown teen. Why do you thinks umps ignored an unknown who was getting coached?

1. Because coaching is a reality of the tour and has been for quite some time now. Umps now this better than anyone. When a guy like Bollettieri says that most juniors he sees get some form of coaching in when matches start then I have no reason to believe that this suddenly stops when they hit the pro level. Coaching simply becomes less blatant but it is still done.

2. The coaching rule is nearly impossible to enforce unless someone is being incredibly blatant with how they break the rule(like Tony vocalizing too much to make himself heard). The rule says that any communication between box and player is forbidden. How the hell do you enforce something like that? Communication could mean actual shouts, encouragement words could be code for certain tactics, hand signals could probably also be used, the ump needs to check and see to where the players are looking(if they are getting "inspiration") etc.

If Tony would use signals like I guess most coaches use(why do you think most players are glued to their box after the point ends or on a challenge call), he wouldn't be fined for coaching but in reality, he would still be doing it.

Wawrinka shouldn't be pointing fingers because he also gets on court coaching. It's ridiculous to say "Hey, that guy was allowed to cheat more than I did".

Exactly, Stan admitted he too, gets coaching. According to him, he just felt it was too much. How can people not see that? The commentators constantly point out how Player A asked their box.

Are these people crazy?

There's no way they haven't heard them mention it, because they mention it all the time.

And for sure Cahill was coaching Sorana when she played Serena and the commentators were laughing about it. They didn't seem to think it was cheating.

Ah, high moral ground, lol.

 

[TheTruth]

Delete

10 chars.

 

[tennisaddict]

You want Federer to pee on the court ? Classic Nadal fan base argument - divert talk to Federer or H2H anytime there is a case against Nadal.

 

[TheTruth]

You want Federer to pee on the court ? Classic Nadal fan base argument - divert talk to Federer or H2H anytime there is a case against Nadal.

Not making it up, buddy. Others cast aspersion on this particular bathroom break too. But, you know what's funny? The double standard given when Federer's motives are questioned. Some of the same people in this thread upheld Federer. Total double standard.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=309722&page=5


Grehttp://www.aolnews.com/2010/01/28/roger-federer-gives-new-meaning-to-being-no-1/g Couch


"When the sun comes from the side, the ball seems half the size and is just hard to hit. I never take toilet breaks, but I thought 'Why not?'

I just hoped that with every minute it took, the sun would move another centimeter."

He then threw in, as an afterthought that he also had to go to the bathroom.

Well, tennis doesn't have bathroom monitors. Yet. So we can't say for sure what he did.

 

[Steve0904]

You want Federer to pee on the court ? Classic Nadal fan base argument - divert talk to Federer or H2H anytime there is a case against Nadal.

That seems to be a common play doesn't it? It is rather funny.

 

[TMF]

That seems to be a common play doesn't it? It is rather funny.

When they have nothing to counter, they bring Roger's name. I try to ignore their posts when they try to go off topic which derailed the thread.

 

[TheTruth]

Surely you guys can see that his intention was to break momentum, ergo, cheat.

If not, take it up with Greg Couch. He wrote the article, lol.

Classic Other fan base argument- accuse one player of cheating - divert talk when it comes to their own fave cheating.

You must not have read the article. Couch casts doubt on Federer's motives and doesn't seem to take it lightly that he talks about watching the sun set.

This is a double standard. The outrage over Nadal and the sweeping it under the rug for Federer.

H2H is the bomb. It shows how you did against your greatest rivals. Essential for GOAT criteria .

Don't shoot me I'm just the messenger.

 

[TheTruth]

When they have nothing to counter, they bring Roger's name. I try to ignore their posts when they try to go off topic which derailed the thread.

It's not derailing. it's about cheating and hypocritical double standards.

Both on topic, buddy.

 

[tennisaddict]

Surely you guys can see that his intention was to break momentum, ergo, cheat.

If not, take it up with Greg Couch. He wrote the article, lol.

There is a rule that oncourt coaching is not allowed. There are no rules barring bathroom breaks.

Why is this hard to understand ?

 

[TheTruth]

There is a rule that oncourt coaching is not allowed. There are no rules barring bathroom breaks.

Why is this hard to understand ?

Your response proves you didn't read the article. You don't even know what he said.

Read the article and email Greg Couch.
.
He did more damage than me. I'm just the messenger

 

[fednad]

I don't how in that crowded stadium Uncle Toni could have been sooo loud that Stan could hear him, but the umpire could not.

If he was that loud, and it was obvious cheating, the crowd also would have noticed, because it was disrupting the match and the umpire would have had to say something.

That's just common sense.

What I think happened, was that Stan gave it all he had, and even his best wasn't good enough to nab a set against a sub-par Nadal.

His frustration bubbled over and I look for a retraction in the near future.

Toni was no doubt shouting vamos, he has been accused of cheating before just for saying the same thing.

If people want Nadal fans to believe this ridiculous scenario, then the scenario needs to make more sense.

Does not matter.
Stan, the man, was there where this incident happened.
That "What I think" from you is a hypothetical nothing.

******* knee massagers cannot understand that it is a big thing to raise such an issue openly on court and then follow it later in the press conference. It was not frustration but fact.

 

[fednad]

At least rafa doesnt cheat like djoker did in Wimbledon.

Toni screaming vamos.

Wawrinka a bitter loser. So dissapointed about how childish he was arguing.

Tell us about the bold part.

 

[TheTruth]

Does not matter.
Stan, the man, was there where this incident happened.
That "What I think" from you is a hypothetical nothing.

******* knee massagers cannot understand that it is a big thing to raise such an issue openly on court and then follow it later in the press conference. It was not frustration but fact.

"What you think" about "What I think"doesn't matter either.

 

[Death Master]

Does not matter.
Stan, the man, was there where this incident happened.
That "What I think" from you is a hypothetical nothing.

******* knee massagers cannot understand that it is a big thing to raise such an issue openly on court and then follow it later in the press conference. It was not frustration but fact.

calm down old sport.



it is what it is. Spartan stan was just a little bit upset.


stan and nadal are fairly good friends.

stan knows there is no way around nadal. he cant be that stupid.


stan was just a little bit frustrated.

tony cant really help nadal. if anything he hurts nadal by barking too much.

all he is doing is his part as a cheer leader. he does not know 1/100 of what nadal knows about winning matches.

 

[fednad]

calm down old sport.



it is what it is. Spartan stan was just a little bit upset.


stan and nadal are fairly good friends.

stan knows there is no way around nadal. he cant be that stupid.


stan was just a little bit frustrated.

tony cant really help nadal. if anything he hurts nadal by barking too much.

all he is doing is his part as a cheer leader. he does not know 1/100 of what nadal knows about winning matches.

"Old Gatsby, old sport" - God bless Salinger.
Anyway, Stan is not the first guy who has raised this. And, a coach can always help - always - right in the imddle of the match. Even one effective insight and advice can change the course of match.
And, if Tony barks, why does he cover his mouth while barking. I distinctly remember multiple instances when I have seen this on TV and he was caught off-guard by the camera. If he has to should "Vamos", he would definitely do it openly.

 

[fednad]

"What you think" about "What I think"doesn't matter either.

Thank God you noticed that and realized that.
Perhaps, that shall prevent you from posting in multiple other threads where you are posting "what you think".
Better late than never !

 

[Overdrive]

"Old Gatsby, old sport" - God bless Salinger.
Anyway, Stan is not the first guy who has raised this. And, a coach can always help - always - right in the imddle of the match. Even one effective insight and advice can change the course of match.
And, if Tony barks, why does he cover his mouth while barking. I distinctly remember multiple instances when I have seen this on TV and he was caught off-guard by the camera. If he has to should "Vamos", he would definitely do it openly.

You gotta be kidding me.

Salinger DID NOT write "The Great Gatsby".

 

[fednad]

There is a rule that oncourt coaching is not allowed. There are no rules barring bathroom breaks.

Why is this hard to understand ?

Forgive her. She does not know what a bathroom break is.

 

[fednad]

You gotta be kidding me.

Salinger DID NOT write "The Great Gatsby".

Salinger wrote "The Catcher in the Rye" where the protagonist Caulfield says this line - "Ol Gatsby, ol sport".
"The Great Gatsby" was of course written by Fitzgerald.

See the first para on this page:
http://www.levity.com/corduroy/salinger.htm

 

[Overdrive]

Salinger wrote "The Catcher in the Rye" where the protagonist Caulfield says this line - "Ol Gatsby, ol sport".
"The Great Gatsby" was of course written by Fitzgerald.

See the first para on this page:
http://www.levity.com/corduroy/salinger.htm

Forgot about that statement. I haven't read the book in about 2 years, so I can't remember all of the quotes.

I didn't like Fitzgerald's work. I don't get why it gets so much praise. But that is another topic.

 

[fednad]

Forgot about that statement. I haven't read the book in about 2 years, so I can't remember all of the quotes.

I didn't like Fitzgerald's work. I don't get why it gets so much praise. But that is another topic.

Yeah, "The Great Gatsby" seems massively overrated to me. The movie though - the old one starring Redford - is good.
I like Redford, anyway. That Mia Farrow sucks big time, though.

 

[Overdrive]

Yeah, "The Great Gatsby" seems massively overrated to me. The movie though - the old one starring Redford - is good.
I like Redford, anyway. That Mia Farrow sucks big time, though.

Mhmm..

There was no reason to remake it.. Seriously..

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Maybe he thought he'd try to disturb Rafa with his whining during the second set, but Rafa doesn't get distracted by those things

Stan could whine, throw his toys, or spill his formula, but he will remain a loser to a superior player. Of course, we know the TW usual suspects have turned Stan into their proxy for another player--one who is as much a loser against Nadal as Stan himself.

Silly how the usual suspects thought their self-defeating game would not backfire on them.

 

[sbengte]

Surely you guys can see that his intention was to break momentum, ergo, cheat.

Why this urban legend being propagated about that legal , non-disruptive bathroom break taken *between sets* in the Davy match is beyond me. Fed was back before the umpire called time unlike the disruptive breaks taken *between* games in the middle of a set by some people. (The one that Nadal took at IW 2012 , when Fed was about to serve for the match comes to mind)

And for those hanging on to Fed's quotes from the Courier interview : those interviews with Courier have always involved some light hearted humour . Go look up more AO interviews with Courier and Fed engages in a lot of self deprecating humor like stealing towels at the tournament, how his fitness regime just involves babysitting and such other inanities. Only a complete idiot would take a quote from those interviews and see anything serious in it.

And if it was truly meant to be gamesmanship or cheating, would he be talking openly about it in such a way ? Can you please quote me an example where Nadal , after one of his innumerable illegal and disruptive MTOs says in an interview that he was looking to disrupt the opponent's rhythm by doing it ? No. Why ? Because if the intent is indeed gamesmanship, you would never publicly admit it , let alone make a joke out of it.

 

[fednad]

Mhmm..

There was no reason to remake it.. Seriously..

The other day, I saw Rosemary's baby.
And Mia Farrow looks so sick in it. Was she anorexic? Did she hate food?
Man, she looked bad.

 

[fednad]

Stan could whine, throw his toys, or spill his formula, but he will remain a loser to a superior player. Of course, we know the TW usual suspects have turned Stan into their proxy for another player--one who is as much a loser against Nadal as Stan himself.

Silly how the usual suspects thought their self-defeating game would not backfire on them.

Whining as usual.
So, STan raises a valid point, and the "objective" response is "he lost to a superior player". And , then the "expected" referene to Federer.
Why doesn't this Blunder fellow say something which is "relevant" only to the subject under discussion

 

[Sentinel]

^ Maybe Federer talking about his leak break between sets (and within the allotted time between sets) as disrupting momentum was actually a dig at Rafa who does it during the set ! But don't expect Rafa fans to be rational or honest about this.

If Federer takes a bathroom break before or after a match, even that would count as breaking opponent's momentum by Rafans

I feel sad for Rafans, having to defend their man against all kinds of violations.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Same old, same old.

Nothing has changed around here.

:-?

 

[bigred1910]

I can't remember the tournament, but he went to the restroom during a rain break, and the commentator was saying that he wasn't allowed to talk to his coach. This is what they said on ESPN, but later on the TTC, they were talking about Cahill, I think it was, who they said talked to Federer on the rain break.

That's why I watch both broadcasts, because they cross fact check each other.

Keep thinking that Federer doesn't "cheat," lol.

If Rafa was "cheating" there is no reason on earth that the players wouldn't band together to stop it.

Why on earth would the entire tour give him a free pass?

Sorry, doesn't make sense.

theres not really alot htey could do even if they wanted i mean look at the womens tennis and how loud sharapova and azarenka scream there has been complaints about this from the other women but nothing gets done. the only way something would and could get done by the players is if they were to all boycott any match in which they came up against nadal until this issue was looked at.

i mean do you really see that happening?

 

[tennisaddict]

Sounds like a snitch. Man up and win a set, lol.

Wawrinka: grow a pair and stop crying like the little boy you are.

Wawrinka being a sore loser

He was just mad he couldn't manage to win a set despite Rafa playing awful. He isn't going to either if he can't accept he lost fair and square and tries instead to blame it on something external.



You might notice if you read the quote that Wawrinka does NOT think it matters because it's against the rules. Just because it was "too much" according to him. Read the quote again:



Plus, "just because it's Rafa"?. How often do we see players getting warned for coaching, despite the fact it's in fact a common practice?. Hardly ever. And did he miss the bad calls which went on his favour?. I bet if they had been against him he'd be saying it happened "because it's Rafa". Grow up Stan.

Lol yeah, I should know plus haters will hold on to anything now.

My opinion of Stan has kind of gone down though. WOuld like Bird to go though but he has to play Rafa while Wawrinka has to play already eliminated and tired Ferrer...



I don't know, but Fed did other things. Including being a sore loser, like his compatriot now.

The world number one should play within the same rules as everyone else. In any case, let's not pretend he's being favoured here because he's Rafael Nadal, because he's not.

Rafa has won 26 sets in a row with waw I think.
Not Toni's fault waw lost this match.

well i saw Magnus talking to Stan many times so.......

Nobody cares.

Umps fault . If they allow it then its allowed.

Oh please. How on earth could Toni be coaching so loud that Stan could hear it, but the umpire couldn't?

Stan was just mad because he knew he was heading for straight set loss #12 in a row.

Oh, and those inept cameramen who can't ever seem to catch a glimpse of Nadal even glancing towards the stands, or Toni saying anything.

Stan is a big, pouty baby, mad because he can't win.

OMG...I'm watching the match now. I don't know what happened today.....

But the announcers said that warwinka has never taken even one set off Nadal!!???

He sounds a but frustrated.

Yep. And then losers use it as an excuse when they get beat for the umpteenth time to garner support for their loss.

Thread bump...

See the true colors of the people..

 

[Bartelby]

Uncle Toni also instructed him to stay on court and not quit the match.

 

[Bartelby]

Nadal's uncle and coach, Toni Nadal, told reporters in French that at one stage, the world number one said: "'It's over'

"Then later, he asked me what to do. I said, ‘play - you don't quit in a final'.

"We thought he would lose 6-2 6-3 6-0."

 

[World Beater]

What goes around comes around.

lots of these posters have some MAJOR (pun intended) crow to eat.

 

[dafinch]

What goes around comes around.

lots of these posters have some MAJOR (pun intended) crow to eat.

Yeah, Crissti, The_Order, and others disappeared like farts in the wind. Punks...

 

[sbengte]

Thread bump...

See the true colors of the people..

EPIC-est bump, if there ever was one.

 

[-snake-]

Capy lovers showing their true colours. ;-) Nothing new.

 

[SLD76]

wow

10lmaos

 

[clayqueen]

I have never believed that on court coaching made any difference. Now that it's allowed by the ATP, nothing has changed.