Wawrinka vs Safin

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Who is greater?

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Wawrinka

3 Slams
1 Masters
0 weeks at number one
0 weeks at number two

Safin

2 Slams
5 Masters
9 weeks at number one

Discuss.
 
The question is greater and it's Wawrinka. He's cemented himself as the 4th clutch guy behind the Big 3. Murray is more an also-ran because of his many losses. Stanimal is one hell of a nickname in the tennis world now.

Safin is a fanboy novelty that will only lose luster with time. The 2 handed backhand doesn't help.

Wawrinka is overall more unique with clear concentration and spread of Slams.
 
serve: Safin
return: Safin
groundstrokes: tie
net: Safin
mobility: edge Wawrinka
creativity: Safin
mentality: Wawrinka
 
BGod said:
The question is greater and it's Wawrinka. He's cemented himself as the 4th clutch guy behind the Big 3. Murray is more an also-ran because of his many losses. Stanimal is one hell of a nickname in the tennis world now.

Safin is a fanboy novelty that will only lose luster with time. The 2 handed backhand doesn't help.

Wawrinka is overall more unique with clear concentration and spread of Slams.
Click to expand...

At least he has luster to lose. What's wrong with his blistering two-handed backhand exactly?
 
Nole Slam said:
Wawrinka

3 Slams
1 Masters
0 weeks at number one
0 weeks at number two

Safin

2 Slams
5 Masters
9 weeks at number one


Discuss.
Click to expand...
Add some more:

Wawrinka
1 Slaims Runner-up
ALL GS Semifinalist - NO

Safin
2 Slaims Runner-up
ALL GS Semifinalist - YES
 
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Fabresque said:
Wawrinka is the most overrated player on these boards. The man won 3 slams and couldn’t even climb higher than #3-4 in the world. What does that say about him? Safin.
Click to expand...
No player other than Big4 was higher than #3 in the last 15 years, not just Wawrinka.

I'd really like to see the record of ATP points by both players.
 
Safin is a more impressive player overall for me. Stan saved tennis from absolute darkness 2014-2017, and he got a little overrated for that reason. I think Stan fulfilled his potensial in a way Safin never did, unfortunately. World #1 is good stuff.

Two of my all time favourite players to watch :cool:
 
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Slam matches won

vs top5 --> 12-7
vs top10 --> 21-13
vs top20 --> 34-18

Wawrinka has got almost twice as many wins over top players at Slams.
 
Fabresque said:
Wawrinka is the most overrated player on these boards. The man won 3 slams and couldn’t even climb higher than #3-4 in the world. What does that say about him? Safin.
Click to expand...
Stan had to deal with peak Federer, Djokovic and Nadal which made it very difficult for anyone to get into the top three. Stan beat Novak in two slam finals, Rafa in one. Overall, I would say they are about equal but I would give the slight edge to Stan, because he won one more slam and won slams on hard and clay.
 
Lew II said:
Slam matches won

vs top5 --> 12-7
vs top10 --> 21-13
vs top20 --> 34-18

Wawrinka has got almost twice as many wins over top players at Slams.
Click to expand...

Yes, Stan has been a good slam player, which many hold against him - legacy wise (some Nole-fans even 'reject' the two lost slam finals against Stan by referring to the overall H2H). Safin was injured a lot, so he had to fight from a low ranking in many slams, so tougher for him to face as many high ranked players.

I had to check, and Stan has played 71 more slam matches (and counting). 71 matches extra is almost 50% of Safin's entire slam career.

They both handled Djokovic pretty well in slams, though. Bless them :cool:
 
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Safin only had 2000, 2002 and 2004 injury free. Suffered an injury aged 25 just after winning the Australian Open in 2005 that put an end to the Safin we knew up until that point.

I respect Wawrinka a lot and either of them can win against each other at their best, on a head-to-head basis. I think Safin was a classier player and destined for much more in his career if it weren't for injuries. He won 5 MS, 2 GS, world number 1 and 2 DC with only 3 injury free seasons following the age of 20.
 
Safin was a much more complete player than Wawrinka. I don’t think Wawrinka has a chance at beating even a post peak Sampras at the 2000 USO, let alone shred him like Safin did. I also see Stan getting stomped by 2005 Federer at the AO.

Serve: Safin. I have seen Safin hit the high 130s. A modern racquet likely gets him to the mid-140s
Return of serve: Safin by a mile
Net: Safin by a country mile
Backhand: Safin
Forehand: Stan by a hair
Mobility: Stan by a hair
Variety: Safin

Safin had a much higher peak. But injuries and skirt-chasing slowed Safin down just enough to allow Stan to have a better career.
 
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tough call. extra slam is big...but so is reaching #1. i might actually lean towards marat on this one for that reason, however brief his reign at the top was.
 
Safin getting overrated as always. The difference between 3 slams or 2 slams is actually big since we are talking relatively small numbers of slams here. Also it is not like Safin is way ahead in other metrics here. 9 weeks at No.1 aren’t many and he would have a big zero here had he peaked during the era of big three. I can understand arguments for both here (even though for me it is Stan) but saying that it was “clearly” or “easily” Safin stretches it.
 
BorgTheGOAT said:
Safin getting overrated as always. The difference between 3 slams or 2 slams is actually big since we are talking relatively small numbers of slams here. Also it is not like Safin is way ahead in other metrics here. 9 weeks at No.1 aren’t many and he would have a big zero here had he peaked during the era of big three. I can understand arguments for both here (even though for me it is Stan) but saying that it was “clearly” or “easily” Safin stretches it.
Click to expand...
Yeah i was reading some old thread from 2010 were people were picking Safin of the USO 2000 final to destroy Nadal of the USO 2010 final.....
 
Lew II said:
1980-82 gen is incredible in hypothetical matches although it has a losing score h2h against almost anyone.
Click to expand...
They are still better than you give credit for though.....

These days they are not as unbeatable in hypothetical matches they used to be years back as well.
 
Wawrinka maxed out on his opportunities. 3 slams in the era he got them beating the guys he did is great, even if they were below their peaks.
Safin could have been a four or five time slam winner, year end No.1 at least once.
So, I'm going with Stan.
 
PerilousPear said:
One managed to beat peak Fedr in a hardcourt slam, while the other is a certified pigeon for Fedr on hard court.
Click to expand...
Safin was also Feds pigeon, one win (which would have been a four set loss of it wasn’t for Feds choking), does not change this. Stan also managed one slam win against Federer.
 
RS said:
Yeah i was reading some old thread from 2010 were people were picking Safin of the USO 2000 final to destroy Nadal of the USO 2010 final.....
Click to expand...
Safin, among with Nalbandian and (the most ridiculous of all) Rios is often mentioned here as one of the most talented of all time who could have been in a level with the Big three of he only wanted to. The fanboy logic here is as follows: Pete or Federer beat Safin: “well this was because Safin was unmotivated this was not the best form Safin”. Safin beats Sampras or Federer (once in a blue moon): “here we have it this was both at there very best and Safin came out on top”.
 
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Pheasant said:
Safin was a much more complete player than Wawrinka. I don’t think Safin has a chance at beating even a post peak Sampras at the 2000 USO, let alone shred him like Safin did. I also see Stan getting stomped by 2005 Federer at the AO.

Serve: Safin. I have seen Safin hit the high 130s. A modern racquet likely gets him to the mid-140s
Return of serve: Safin by a mile
Net: Safin by a country mile
Backhand: Safin
Forehand: Stan by a hair
Mobility: Stan by a hair
Variety: Safin

Safin had a much higher peak. But injuries and skirt-chasing slowed Safin down just enough to allow Stan to have a better career.
Click to expand...

Maybe it is hard to compare one-handed and two-handed backhands, but Wawrinka's backhand is right up there with Safin's. As for the forehand, I don't see Sanislas' advantage.
 
BorgTheGOAT said:
Safin, among with Nalbandian and (the most ridiculous of all) Rios is often mentioned here as one of the most talented of all time who could have been in a level with the Big three of he only wanted to. The fanboy logic here is as follows: Pete or Federer beat Safin: “well this was because Safin was unmotivated this was not the best form Safin”. Safin beats Sampras or Federer (once in a blue moon): “here we have it this was both at there very best and Safin came out on top”.
Click to expand...

If you can beat peak Federer in a slam(or Sampras for that matter, the way he played that night), it means that you have great tennis abilities. Nothing wrong with that logic. And yes, like for just about anything you do, you need motivation. For playing consistently on a high level in professional tennis, you need to be very, very motivated. Who of the big 3 does not have a tremendous drive? Does Serena not have it? Did Graf not have it? Talent alone won't do it.
 
skaj said:
If you can beat peak Federer in a slam(or Sampras for that matter, the way he played that night), it means that you have great tennis abilities. Nothing wrong with that logic. And yes, like for just about anything you do, you need motivation. For playing consistently on a high level in professional tennis, you need to be very, very motivated. Who of the big 3 does not have a tremendous drive? Does Serena not have it? Did Graf not have it? Talent alone won't do it.
Click to expand...
Can't wait for Thiem to win 3 chickensh!t slams and be put above Safin too. "Well 3 vs 2 is a big difference and Thiem had a winning h2h vs Federer!!!"
 
Another one of those cases where player A has the extra Slam but player B has everything else in their favor. I think I've answered both ways on this topic before depending on the day. Right now I'm going with Stanimal because he was a little more consistent at Slams than Safin.
 
In between 2013 and 2016 when Wawrinka played his best he lost to one of big three in 6 slams, 3 WTF semis i think and 9 masters. All in later stages.
And he won his 3 slams and 1 master by going through them. In AO he took out Djokovic and Rafa.
 
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