Ways to break in Kevlar mains

2nd Serve Ace

2nd Serve Ace

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Ashaway Kevlar is quit a bit boardy on the first hit. So, I've been experimenting with the best ways to loosen it up at the start.

The first step, of course, is a good prestretch of about 6 minutes on the full length of the mains before stringing. (I take breaks at every 2 minutes b/c my hands get tired)

But once they are in, you need to go out and drill them for about 20-25 minutes with only heavy, cross court groundstrokes with a friend, off a ball machine or self dropping. Use an exagerated grip and arm motion, and go hard at it! Be sure to work both sides of the stringbed, of course.

The end result should be a nice scuff on the Kevlar mains, plus allot of loosening up with the string friction. It would take me about 10-15 hours of point play to get the strings in this playable of a condition!

Go ahead and move into point play from here on out. The ball grab, string snapback, and comfort are optimized at this point.
 
Based off your signature - wouldn't you have to replace the crosses by then? They would be dead by the time you finish conditioning the Kevlar. You should contact @graycrait, who uses a winch to permanently pre stretch his Kevlar. I would also think getting 4" of permanent stretch out of 20' of Kevlar is plenty of pre stretch for the string.
 
esgee48 said:
Based off your signature - wouldn't you have to replace the crosses by then? They would be dead by the time you finish conditioning the Kevlar. You should contact @graycrait, who uses a winch to permanently pre stretch his Kevlar. I would also think getting 4" of permanent stretch out of 20' of Kevlar is plenty of pre stretch for the string.
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That's my point, this break in approach directs the action more at the mains and preserves the crosses better. Absolutely limit to 25 minutes as you will damage the mains to much with scuffing.

Prestretching has it's place, but it is secondary to dynamic hitting. FYI I love graycait, but I prefer a higher tension then him!
 
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I agree with the OP that Ash Kev needs some play before they settle in.

Here is what I have learned about Ash Kev:

1. Prestretch is a good idea the more the better, however on my NEOS 1000 LO crank if I double or triple pull the mains (which doesn't take much time) I get about the same effect as if I manually or winch prestretch.
2. Stringing Ash Kev less than 62lbs seems foolish. Because no matter the prestretch those strings are going to lose quite a bit of tension after a couple of hours of play.
3. I just can't imagine using anything but Ashaway Zyex as a cross or maybe syn gut as a cross. I have used both extensively. I refuse to play with dead poly and poly does not play effectively after many hours (lets just say no more than 12 hrs, some less maybe some more but I doubt it). The beauty of Ash Kev x Zyex is that you have a relatively long last lasting "decent" string bed for a long time - months in most cases.

I am currrently using a poly/poly hybrid. Solinco Tour Bite mains (shaped) x Solinco Outlast crosses (round) at 40/40lbs. But I have Ash Kev x Zyex strung in a number of Prince narrow beamed rackets in case I tweak my elbow.

Tomorrow I will be playing against a fella who has 10 yrs as head coach in the big Big Ten and 8 yrs in the Big 12. Monday nite I was hitting with a kid who has played with a number of the next gen guys and gals from Russia and other former Soviet Block countries. He laughs at my feeble attempts to get a point. But when I get a point I let him know that it is just as big as if I had won Wimbledon. I'm just a gray-haired recreational hack who likes tennis. Best to disregard anything I say about the sport.
 
So graycait and esgejee have giving me the hiccups for the first time in at least 10 years that I can remember or more!

This drilling technique is the best way to loosen up Kevlar mains for both string 2 string and ball 2 string friction.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
 
J011yroger said:
Why would you guys use Kevlar if it takes you 15 years to break it?
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I really enjoy your posts. And I would love to see you post a vid of you busting 16G Ash Kev in the mains x Zyex in the crosses at some ridiculously low hour count.

I have a good serve, but then I am 63 yrs old, 5'10, 190lbs and regardless all the years of weight training, martial arts, freestyle wrestling, cross country running, etc., I can't willy nilly snap Ash Kev. I can be easily beat by a UTR 11 5'3" 120lb college woman player. Those women can bamboozle my foot work or take all my "air" with any extended rally.

I cannot get any of these big hitting D1 men here to even try Ash Kev x Zyex. They look at me like some unhinged mad "scientist." They hear the word "Kevlar" and run "screaming" out the door.

I have this 30 yr old friend who played DII college tennis who "makes me" string his 60RA 98" 18x20 rackets at 62/62 Ash Kev/Zyex. He almost never hits a serve less than 100mph unless he is slinging that 12' high kicker. His stringbed lasts a long time.
 
graycrait said:
I really enjoy your posts. And I would love to see you post a vid of you busting 16G Ash Kev in the mains x Zyex in the crosses at some ridiculously low hour count.

I have a good serve, but then I am 63 yrs old, 5'10, 190lbs and regardless all the years of weight training, martial arts, freestyle wrestling, cross country running, etc., I can't willy nilly snap Ash Kev. I can be easily beat by a UTR 11 5'3" 120lb college woman player. Those women can bamboozle my foot work or take all my "air" with any extended rally.

I cannot get any of these big hitting D1 men here to even try Ash Kev x Zyex. They look at me like some unhinged mad "scientist." They hear the word "Kevlar" and run "screaming" out the door.

I have this 30 yr old friend who played DII college tennis who "makes me" string his 60RA 98" 18x20 rackets at 62/62 Ash Kev/Zyex. He almost never hits a serve less than 100mph unless he is slinging that 12' high kicker. His stringbed lasts a long time.
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One of my hitting partners is a bit better than me, but his forehand especially is ridiculously good - I doubt that there are 500 people in the world with forehands better than his. He was once ranked #1 in the US in his junior age group, but then burnt out before returning to tennis 25 years later with newfound passion, and his forehand talent was still there.

Anyway, he had to borrow one of my Kevlar/zx racquets once when his strings broke, and he destroyed me worse than usual using my own racquet. So he asked me to string up one of his frames that way.

Long story short, he loved the Kevlar/zx at 90/40 lbs in his blade 16x19, and said he got better control and spin than usual. It took him 2-1/2 weeks to chew through the 16g Kevlar with his tremendously heavy 6.0+ level forehand, hitting 3 times per week.

Takes me 6 months or so on my 18x20s.
 
Vanhalen said:
Kevlar doesn’t break in.
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It absolutely does. Every string relaxes when its first hit. Kevlar is no different. Its stiff at first for say 20-40 min and then it is softer. Some dont make it past this point as it can be boardy.

I believe the OP was addressing this.
 
I find stringing at 90/40 reduces the initial break-in tension loss of the Kevlar, because the string is prestretching in the loom at 90 lbs before I pop it off the stringer, at which point it relaxes down to 50 or so from hoop deformation.
 
J011yroger said:
Ok, I'll bite. What exactly is ZX and why is it better than the ALU crosses I use?

J
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Ashaway monogutzx not to be confused with monogut. Zx is a zyex mono filiment.

Its a bizarre string. In the long direction its stretchy like a gut and soft like gut, but try to bend it and its stiff like poly.

Teamed with kevlar its superb at tension maintenance if its prestretched. It also is difficult to dent as a cross so the stringbed lasts a long time but it does cut through the kevlar.

Because its soft and smooth you can “cut” the kevlar with it and get an arm friendly stringbed, long lasting performance and decent spin.

Many are using it with kevlar mains and stringing it 20-40lb less than the kevlar mains.

Ashaway has a hybrid pack though the included kevlar is not their standard but its close

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Ashaway_Crossfire_ZX_17_String/descpageACASH-XFIREZX17.html

Pain to string and pro stringers often break it but once you get used to it its easy and ImHo zx is one of the best cross strings if you string below its 60lb limit.

You might not like it at all but i wouldnt be surprised if you started a love affair with it
 
I used to play kevlar all the time. It will stretch a tiny amount, but it's a dead string. There is no resiliency to it like nylon strings or gut, or even poly. I personally don't see any point to pre-stretching it or breaking it in. Once you find a light enough starting tension and dial in the cross string and tension you can pretty much play it the way you like it right off the stringer. If your cross string holds tension well it will play very similarly to how it started until it breaks or the cross breaks.

Personally I liked it a lot back before I found some good polys. My joints were a bit younger and more resilient then too. It was the longest lasting string I could get, which was the main reason I used it, and it was also pretty good for spin. Now that I have a smaller frame with an 18x20 pattern, I can get similar play time from poly and the spin is better and its softer on the wrist.
 
Kevo said:
I used to play kevlar all the time. It will stretch a tiny amount, but it's a dead string. There is no resiliency to it like nylon strings or gut, or even poly. I personally don't see any point to pre-stretching it or breaking it in. Once you find a light enough starting tension and dial in the cross string and tension you can pretty much play it the way you like it right off the stringer. If your cross string holds tension well it will play very similarly to how it started until it breaks or the cross breaks.

Personally I liked it a lot back before I found some good polys. My joints were a bit younger and more resilient then too. It was the longest lasting string I could get, which was the main reason I used it, and it was also pretty good for spin. Now that I have a smaller frame with an 18x20 pattern, I can get similar play time from poly and the spin is better and its softer on the wrist.
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Wow, I'd totally forgot about my hiccup attack from last night, until rereading this thread!

But anyway, if poly works well for you at about 56 or under in tension, I would say go with it. But if you start needing to string tighter with the poly, then Ash Kev is really something to look at as it offers more control, consistency and playable duration if dialed in right.

I always use a poly cross even with Kevlar, so its not like I'm saying the material is junk or anything, just that a multi/mono combination can be pretty nice playing.
 
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2nd Serve Ace said:
Wow, I'd totally forgot about my hiccup attack from last night, until rereading this thread!

But anyway, if poly works well for you at about 56 or under in tension, I would say go with it. But if you start needing to string tighter with the poly, then Ash Kev is really something to look at as it offers more control, consistency and playable duration if dialed in right.
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Not sure what the hiccup attack is about, but like I said I've played Kevlar a lot in the past. It offers no advantage for me since I've switched to a control frame with and 18x20 pattern. The poly I use is better for me with this racquet. In high school I used a prince 110, following Agassi's example I guess, and strings would break all the time. It was a 16 main pattern. As I got older I started moving down in frame size and string breakage wasn't quite as bad but once I started playing league tennis a lot after college I started breaking strings again. Went through lots of polys and multis looking for something a little less harsh, but was not getting good string life. Found the Pure Storm Limited and Kirschbaum Competition and haven't looked back. String it around 50lbs give or take depending on the season and I only need to string my 3 frames every couple of months maybe. I think I've only played Kevlar a couple of times since I got the PSLs and it just doesn't hold up in comparison.

That's just my experience. I fully understand why someone would want kevlar. If I was still going with a big power frame, I might still be using it. It's great for what it's good at. I just don't think I would use or recommend kevlar to someone given the wide selection of very good polys out there unless they were breaking poly frequently and couldn't deal with the restringing.
 
no mention of gauge..important factor with K or A
as we know, kevlar strings are stiff as hell.. thinner, less stiff and breaks in faster.
I only have a few players using it.
i have them with an 18 gauge and the tension is down below 55..
one had a full bed - 18g/ 4.0
the other does a hybrid (K 18g) with a thin poly (17g).. / 4.5
players frames , they certain crush the ball..
they are happy...I an happy....
 
CopolyX said:
no mention of gauge..important factor with K or A
as we know, kevlar strings are stiff as hell.. thinner, less stiff and breaks in faster.
I only have a few players using it.
i have them with an 18 gauge and the tension is down below 55..
one had a full bed - 18g/ 4.0
the other does a hybrid (K 18g) with a thin poly (17g).. / 4.5
players frames , they certain crush the ball..
they are happy...I an happy....
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Bring those main tensions back up!

More spin and comfort will result. If power is needed, then up the SW & TW of the racket. I would recommend spreading it all around the hoop, moreso then just one location.

My signature says I use 16 G ash Kev. My arm is in better shape than when playing full poly.
 
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2nd Serve Ace said:
Bring those main tensions back up!

More spin and comfort will result. If power is needed, then up the SW & TW of the racket.

My signature says I use 16 G ash Kev.

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk
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Why...
this guys have been playing forever..
again one is a 4.0 (45) the other is a 4.5 (50)
the hit with big top spin and certainly do not lack power.
Bring the mains up will not equate to more power.
Comfort also does not come with raising the tension, in my world ( with stiff strings). comfort is there call and so very subjective to each .....
The magic is getting the tension "just right" for the strings (mains/crosses) for fine tuning performance , the frame and player...
( sometimes there are other factors, weather and more)
 
Listen to me, do not torcher the 4.0 with fullbed K anymore. Move him to what the 4.5 has immediately, as Ash Kev is not a good cross string.

Ash Kev is a braided multifliliment string, which has fantastic properties if you can adjust to it's inelasticity and lowish power. That's why I string really high on the mains so the hoop can "store" some tension to promote snapback, and added weight to 10/2 for SW and TW.

The differential is the main thing I take from travelerajm, although some of his ideas are way off!
 
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Kevo said:
I used to play kevlar all the time. It will stretch a tiny amount, but it's a dead string. There is no resiliency to it like nylon strings or gut, or even poly. I personally don't see any point to pre-stretching it or breaking it in. Once you find a light enough starting tension and dial in the cross string and tension you can pretty much play it the way you like it right off the stringer. If your cross string holds tension well it will play very similarly to how it started until it breaks or the cross breaks.

Personally I liked it a lot back before I found some good polys. My joints were a bit younger and more resilient then too. It was the longest lasting string I could get, which was the main reason I used it, and it was also pretty good for spin. Now that I have a smaller frame with an 18x20 pattern, I can get similar play time from poly and the spin is better and its softer on the wrist.
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Weird. Maybe its the type of kevlar. Ashaway is stiff at first and relaxes after a small period of time. So for me it needs to be prestretched. Otherwise it just plays great and then gets too soft.

I like full kevlar but find it needs string savers to help make it spinnyier. A full pack or more really. At least the babalot ones
 
Shroud said:
Weird. Maybe its the type of kevlar. Ashaway is stiff at first and relaxes after a small period of time. So for me it needs to be prestretched. Otherwise it just plays great and then gets too soft.
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What kind of machine do you string the kevlar on? I use a drop weight and the bar hardly moves with kevlar no matter what tension you use. I'd be curious how much longer your string is during and after the prestretch than before.

In my experience once kevlar has stretched it pretty much stays there.
 
I've tried prestretching Ashaway Kevlar (uncoated) and using the same method for ZX Pro, can only get a couple inches on a 20' run. It is very difficult to prestretch.
 
Kevo said:
What kind of machine do you string the kevlar on? I use a drop weight and the bar hardly moves with kevlar no matter what tension you use. I'd be curious how much longer your string is during and after the prestretch than before.

In my experience once kevlar has stretched it pretty much stays there.
Click to expand...

Have you tried starting with the bar at nearly the horizontal place? It will require more slack in the string.
 
TypeRx said:
I've tried prestretching Ashaway Kevlar (uncoated) and using the same method for ZX Pro, can only get a couple inches on a 20' run. It is very difficult to prestretch.
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Due to the high modulus, that 2” extra length actually makes a big difference in how much tension is lost during breakin.
 
TypeRx said:
I've tried prestretching Ashaway Kevlar (uncoated) and using the same method for ZX Pro, can only get a couple inches on a 20' run. It is very difficult to prestretch.
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I got 3" of prestretch off 16g Ash Kev using a winch: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/deep-pre-stretching-hint-i-use-gasoline.601336/

The issue with Ash Kev is that it will "creep" stretch as you play it even if you prestretch to the max. I think it has something to do with the braided nature and the Kevlar itself. I am a humanities major so I'll bow to the scientists on this.
 
scotus said:
Have you tried starting with the bar at nearly the horizontal place? It will require more slack in the string.
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Excellent point. Need to have the arm in the down position for a drop weight when stringing Kev and then lift up about 45 degrees. After several times, you'll learn how much to lift up.

No extra slack needed for a linear gripper but not sure about a cam.
 
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graycrait said:
I got 3" of prestretch off 16g Ash Kev using a winch: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/deep-pre-stretching-hint-i-use-gasoline.601336/

The issue with Ash Kev is that it will "creep" stretch as you play it even if you prestretch to the max. I think it has something to do with the braided nature and the Kevlar itself. I am a humanities major so I'll bow to the scientists on this.
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I'm a B.A. myself, but have seen the same loosening over time with Ash Kev with long periods of play. I believe it is the bonds between the K fibers that are breaking down and not the Kev itself.

And really the more loosening, the better the feel, up to the point that snapback is no longer there, and then it gets boardy again, but that takes a real long time to happen, particularly if stringing with a differential.
 
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2nd Serve Ace said:
I'm a B.A. myself, but have seen the same loosening over time with Ash Kev with long periods of play. I believe it is the bonds between the K fibers that are breaking down and not the Kev itself.

And really the more loosening, the better the feel, up to the point that snapback is no longer there, and then it gets boardy again, but that takes a real long time to happen, particularly if stringing with a differential.
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When I was stringing at 20 lb differential, the SnapBack faded after a few weeks.

But at 90/40, the SnapBack never goes away, and the Kevlar is still straight and well aligned 6 months later when it finally breaks.
 
My 5.0 friend who plays with a 18x20 98" racket beats the crap out of every normal player until the Ashaway Kevlar saws itself through on the Zyex using 62/62 lbs tension strung on a lockout. I think with this dude it has to do more with technique than equipment. He even has a good time playing with UTR 12 college kids.
 
scotus said:
Have you tried starting with the bar at nearly the horizontal place? It will require more slack in the string.
Click to expand...
I know how to string it. Used to string it all the time on a Klippermate in college. It required quite a bit of slack. Now I have a stringway and don't need to give it any slack, but my question was more related to what kind of stretch people were getting on their kevlar. I haven't used the Ashaway as much as prince pro blend, but I do actually have a reel of it that someone bought for me to use for their frames. Treated it just like the other and haven't had any complaints and didn't really notice any difference in stringing, but maybe the way it's braided does make it stretch a bit more.
 
Snapback and kevlar are two words that don't go together. It does make some sense when you string like Travlerajm though. Using the frame like a bow. I personally wouldn't do it that way as I don't think it would provide any benefit for me, but I can see the thought behind it.
 
Kevo said:
I know how to string it. Used to string it all the time on a Klippermate in college. It required quite a bit of slack. Now I have a stringway and don't need to give it any slack, but my question was more related to what kind of stretch people were getting on their kevlar. I haven't used the Ashaway as much as prince pro blend, but I do actually have a reel of it that someone bought for me to use for their frames. Treated it just like the other and haven't had any complaints and didn't really notice any difference in stringing, but maybe the way it's braided does make it stretch a bit more.
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Oh it stretches a heck of a lot more. Tennis industry mag rates tension loss for the Ashaway like a 1st gen poly, 23 lbs+.

The thing is that it resists a unidirectional pull very well, but a side to side action really breaks down the bonds between the multi strands. That's why I've been doing this super top spin drill to break them in post stringing.

I think that's why most are turned off by it b/c it's not "perfect" right out of the box.
 
Kevo said:
Snapback and kevlar are two words that don't go together. It does make some sense when you string like Travlerajm though. Using the frame like a bow. I personally wouldn't do it that way as I don't think it would provide any benefit for me, but I can see the thought behind it.
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It might help to know my history with kevlar, for why I string the way I do. I've been using kevlar mains almost exclusively for almost 30 years.

Started playing competitive tennis age 15 with POG mid with syn gut.

Before senior year of high school, I started using the Wilson Profile OS (RA 84), but was breaking syn gut in only 45 minutes of play.

So I switched to Problend, stringing at about 78 lbs. Lasted me a month before breaking, usually breaking nylon cross.

Played that setup (Profile/Problend/tight) for next 10 years, not worried about spin, mostly just stringing tight for control for my serve-and-volley game.

Switched to Prostaff 4.7 OS (RA 68), still using Problend at 70 lbs (still looking for control). Played that setup for next 10 years.

Switched to NXG OS (Flexy), still using Problens at 67 lbs (found a lot of spin from the flex). Played a few more years.

Discovered poly crosses for the kevlar - added additional spin, but the tension loss of poly declined over time until bed turned into trampoline.

Messed around with different racquets for next 10 years, usually using kevlar/poly hybrids - enjoying tremendous spin, but hating how the bed loses control over time.

Discovered Ashaway ZX - started using kevlar/ZX. Liked it better than poly. Immediately realized I need to prestretch this stuff to make it useful. Very soon after discovered advantage of high tension differential.

Been stringing kevlar/zx 90/40 or so with various racquets, prestretched, for past 5 years to present.

I experiment with other string combos now and then, but nothing has come that close to displacing kevlar/zx as my favorite yet.
 
Kevo said:
Snapback and kevlar are two words that don't go together. It does make some sense when you string like Travlerajm though. Using the frame like a bow. I personally wouldn't do it that way as I don't think it would provide any benefit for me, but I can see the thought behind it.
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If you used a lock cross like they used to do yes no snapback. But with zx and poly it does give pretty good snapback
 
Holy fking hell dead kevlar/poly hurts more than anything when the kevlar mains and poly crosses go completely dead it fking hurts so much even a full bed of completely dead and notched poly in a babolat pure drive doesnt hurt this much wtf

The kevlar poly hybrid only feels more comfortable than full poly before it goes completely dead =_=
 
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Username_ said:
Holy fking hell dead kevlar/poly hurts more than anything when the kevlar mains and poly crosses go completely dead it fking hurts so much even a full bed of completely dead and notched poly in a babolat pure drive doesnt hurt this much wtf

The kevlar poly hybrid only feels more comfortable than full poly before it goes completely dead =_=
Click to expand...
What do you mean “completely dead”?
 
Username_ said:
Strings that barely snapback anymore

Kevlar was strung at 66lbs on a 90" too so it'd be quite a bit higher in a larger headsize :/
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So the mains are crooked?

I strung my pog 93” at 86/86 and they still snapback but i didnt play that long with it. It was a noodle.

What were the crosses at??

66lbs in a 90 is like 73lbs in a 95-105” frame. Or 79lbs in a 105”-115” racquet

If you apply a light dusting of oil like olive oil it should help a bit
 
Shroud said:
So the mains are crooked?

I strung my pog 93” at 86/86 and they still snapback but i didnt play that long with it. It was a noodle.

What were the crosses at??

66lbs in a 90 is like 73lbs in a 95-105” frame. Or 79lbs in a 105”-115” racquet

If you apply a light dusting of oil like olive oil it should help a bit
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Poly crosses were at 51lbs
Theyre rounded/smooth poly too
 
Username_ said:
Strings that barely snapback anymore

Kevlar was strung at 66lbs on a 90" too so it'd be quite a bit higher in a larger headsize :/
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Did the racquet hoop compress some top to bottom? I've found to get good SB you really have to bend the top of the hoop down by at least .2 inches, which it should have based on the 66/51 tension you mentioned.
 
2nd Serve Ace said:
Did the racquet hoop compress some top to bottom? I've found to get good SB you really have to bend the top of the hoop down by at least .2 inches, which it should have based on the 66/51 tension you mentioned.
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ill just assume it couldnt keep up its reputation of lasting until it breaks
 
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