Week 4 of Nationals - 40+ 4.5+ and 55+ 7.0

schmke

Hall of Fame
Nationals continue this weekend, but slow down with just two events.

The weather is iffy in Orlando for the 4.5+ level, scattered thunderstorms and 40% chance of precipitation each day as I write this. Simulation of the men just posted, Southern, NorCal, Mid-Atlantic, and PNW most likely to make the semis, but a big group of 6 with better than a 27% chance lurking in case anyone slips up.

Women's and 55+ simulations to be posted soon.
 

McLovin

Legend
I know a few of the Mid Atlantic players on this team, and a couple of the 5.0s are probably closer to 5.5. One of them is coming off a National 40s Grass Court singles title, and doubles final back in August and the other a National 50s Clay Court doubles title last weekend.

A bunch of the 4.5s have languished in the 4.5-bump-up-to-5.0-bump-down-to-4.5 roller coaster for the last 5 years or so.

On a side note, I played the Grass Court champion ~ 8 years ago in the first round of a clay court tournament. He wasn't seeded, and I had been playing fairly well at the time. I got bagled in the 1st set in about 15 minutes, and managed to scrape together 3 games in the 2nd (I honestly think he got distracted for a bit). Turned out to be tied w/ the most games he lost in a match as he beat the #1 seed in the finals 1 & 2.

UTR has him at 12.
 

2ndServe

Hall of Fame
Nationals continue this weekend, but slow down with just two events.

The weather is iffy in Orlando for the 4.5+ level, scattered thunderstorms and 40% chance of precipitation each day as I write this. Simulation of the men just posted, Southern, NorCal, Mid-Atlantic, and PNW most likely to make the semis
haha going to have to play basically those 4 teams except one and the other is supposed to be darn good. Oh well I expect everyone to be good, I'll be bringing it and let the chips fall where there do.
 

tpro2000

Rookie
55+ 7.0 men's simulation now posted.
Thanks. My Eastern friends have Texas, FL, and middle states in their first 3 matches...that'll be tough. They have one really good dubs team, and then some squirly pairs that can disrupt. They'll have fun regardless

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schmke

Hall of Fame
At 40+ 4.5+ men, Southern and Mid-Atlantic, both favorites in my simulation, win their first matches.

On the women's side, favorites Florida and Southern win their first, as do Middlewest and New England.
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
We're in a rain delay in Orlando. Matches restart at 2:30 PM EST. On the men's side, the 11:00 AM matches were almost over when the rain started, and it fell for about 30 minutes. Skies are partly cloudy right now and they are drying the courts.

I would post the status of some of the unfinished matches, but I don't want to jinx anything. Been around tennis too long to assume results...
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
BTW, I saw a little bit of the Southern and Mid Atlantic matches, and it looks like @schmke's predictions of the top 2 teams is legit. We'll see what happens with weather, injuries, fatigue... we all have a ways to go yet.
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
Ok, the USTA just sent a text saying that matches are now not restarting until 3:00 PM EST. It's a little confusing because it's dry right now, but maybe there is more rain on the radar?

This feels a little like my trip to Wimbledon a couple years ago. They delayed play there after a rain for a couple hours, even when it stopped and everything was sunny for awhile.

Also, I've never seen courts dry so fast as they do down here after some rain. Must be a combo of all the wind, heat, and the Plexicushion surface.
 

tpro2000

Rookie
Ok, the USTA just sent a text saying that matches are now not restarting until 3:00 PM EST. It's a little confusing because it's dry right now, but maybe there is more rain on the radar?

This feels a little like my trip to Wimbledon a couple years ago. They delayed play there after a rain for a couple hours, even when it stopped and everything was sunny for awhile.

Also, I've never seen courts dry so fast as they do down here after some rain. Must be a combo of all the wind, heat, and the Plexicushion surface.
I was down there in 2017, and we were supposed to play a 130pm, match, which got moved to 730am because of rain at 11. The women started at 615am under the lights, we played at 730am ish, took team picture around 10am (skies were perfect). 10:55am massive storm lol.

They had it up and running within about 1.5hrs for the women to continue. Impressive once the crew got out there.
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
The USTA folks here knew what they were doing. The rains unleashed again about 15 minutes ago, but the weather radar shows clearing after this.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
@schmke Eastern played Texas and Mid Atlantic played New England.

MA is in 1st, E 2nd, but on the bottom NE is higher than TX.

How is this not a very obvious proof that how they rank the teams is wrong?

J
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
We got a bout of the Southern-style, start building your Ark, and get-on-your-scuba-gear type rain. However, it is finally letting up, and we're waiting for an update. USTA is drying off the courts right now, and the best guess is play at sometime between 4:00 and 4:30 PM EST. I also was told we are getting the indoor courts at 7:00 PM as well. No word on shortened formats yet.
 

tpro2000

Rookie
We got a bout of the Southern-style, start building your Ark, and get-on-your-scuba-gear type rain. However, it is finally letting up, and we're waiting for an update. USTA is drying off the courts right now, and the best guess is play at sometime between 4:00 and 4:30 PM EST. I also was told we are getting the indoor courts at 7:00 PM as well. No word on shortened formats yet.
Ugh, I remember they did shortened sets and no-ad format for the semi's a couple years ago. Started sets at 2-2 (which is still better than what happened last year in Texas).
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
Ugh, I remember they did shortened sets and no-ad format for the semi's a couple years ago. Started sets at 2-2 (which is still better than what happened last year in Texas).
Progression seems to be, depending on how tight on time they are:
  • Best 2 out of 3 tie-break sets with 3rd set match tie-break, play out deuces
  • Best 2 out of 3 tie-break sets with 3rd set match tie-break, no-ad
  • Best 2 out of 3 tie-break sets but start at 2-2, 3rd set match tie-break, no-ad (optional)
  • Fast Four (first to 4, first to 5 tie-break at 3-3), with possibly a tie-break for 3rd rather than another Fast Four set
  • Pro-sets of varying length, first to 8, 6, or 4.
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
USTA announcement:

We are currently drying the courts. 11am matches be ready at your tournament site at 4:30pm ready to play, 1pm matches at 6pm, 3pm matches at 7:30pm, 4:30pm matches at 9pm. Thank you for your cooperation!
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
Well... I don't know what to say. The courts were just starting to dry at 4:30ish and it started raining again. It's 5:30 now and the 11:00 AM matches have still not finished yet. Oh man...
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
UPDATE: 5:30 pm
11:00 am matches: a few have started playing... all should be on by 7 (some going indoors)

Fri Schedule
1 pm now at 7 pm tonight; lineups due at 6:30 pm
3:00 pm now at 9:30 pm; lineups due at 9:00 pm
4:30 pm now at 10:30 pm; lineups due at 10:00 pm

Saturday schedule currently on schedule.
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
Well... I don't know what to say. The courts were just starting to dry at 4:30ish and it started raining again. It's 5:30 now and the 11:00 AM matches have still not finished yet. Oh man...
And forecast for tomorrow is 50% chance of thunderstorms ... Which is similar to what it was today I think.
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
I believe everyone has finished their first matches now. PNW defeated Northern 4-1, and I'm pretty sure NorCal beat Intermountain, but I didn't catch the score. The rest of the results are in Tennislink.

I know that several of us captains and concerned citizens were lobbying the USTA officials today to keep the scoring format unchanged, and play into the night if we have to. So far, they've been listening. I told them we'd rather play in the rain on clay courts than go to Fast 4...
 
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Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
USTA update at 8:00pm:

-All the 1:00pm matches are playing
-3:00pm matches arrive at 8:30pm
-4:30pm matches arrive at 10:00pm

Way to go 4.5+ Players!
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
I believe everyone has finished their first matches now. PNW defeated Northern 4-1, and I'm pretty sure NorCal beat Intermountain, but I didn't catch the score. The rest of the results are in Tennislink.

I know that several of us captains and concerned citizens were lobbying the USTA officials today to keep the scoring format unchanged, and play into the night if we have to. So far, they've been listening. I told them we'd rather play in the rain on clay courts than go to Fast 4...
Glad to hear the player's spoke and were heard! So they haven't even foisted no-ad on you to save time?
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
Hey J! Do you remember 18+ Eastern sectionals 2017 when we had to start the second round of matches on the Friday after 9pm, not being allowed to get food, then turn around for the 8am match at Central Park?
I got back to the hotel at 1am. Cramped on the crapper at Panera at lunch the next day.

J
 
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Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
Hey J! Do you remember 18+ Eastern sectionals 2017 when we had to start the second round of matches on the Friday after 9pm, not being allowed to get food, then turn around for the 8am match at Central Park?
PNW is playing SoCal tonight at 10:30 PM, and has a 7:30 AM match tomorrow against Intermountain, so there won't be much sleep happening. Fortunatey, the whole crew was able to go back to the house for dinner and a 3 hour break after the first match finished. We're loving the experience though - Nationals is special and this is the first time for most of the team. So we can sleep when it's over!
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
Bad news, we had another brief shower come through and douse the courts. It's not bad and play has resumed... but we just got this message:

New USTA update at 9:00pm:
-1:00pm matches to finish indoor or clay courts
-3:00pm matches to report at 6:30am, ready to play by 7:00am
-4:30pm matches to report at 8:00am, ready to play by 8:30am
Saturday Schedule:
-Play will not begin before 9:00am-Updated schedule will be sent at 7:00am

I'm actually OK with this and appreciate the accommodations and communication from the USTA so far. Looks like I'm off for the night.
 

2ndServe

Hall of Fame
USTA is really fast about the updates but looks like we are going to have to play 3 matches saturday. Almost the same crap that happened last year in Dallas, 2 years in a row. At least this year they have a lot of courts here.
 

mikeler

Moderator
USTA also has 6 indoor hard courts, so if there is rain the final day, they can wrap things up in there.
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
USTA also has 6 indoor hard courts, so if there is rain the final day, they can wrap things up in there.
Sounds like they weren't available until 7pm today? That is unfortunate, but I guess understandable, that they'd be otherwise allocated for something else when a Nationals event is going on that could use them.

And if they are too far behind, 6 indoor courts only goes so far.
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
Our dry season typically runs from mid-October until late May. This year, the tropics do not want to release their grip on the state.
Good point. And it appears they haven't scheduled early October Nationals in Orlando banking on these averages saying late October should be ok, but when tropical storm season hangs on an extra week or two, this can happen.
 

sam_p

Professional
I believe everyone has finished their first matches now. PNW defeated Northern 4-1, and I'm pretty sure NorCal beat Intermountain, but I didn't catch the score. The rest of the results are in Tennislink.

I know that several of us captains and concerned citizens were lobbying the USTA officials today to keep the scoring format unchanged, and play into the night if we have to. So far, they've been listening. I told them we'd rather play in the rain on clay courts than go to Fast 4...
Norcal beat Intermountain 4-1. Intermountain is very, very good though
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
Sounds like they weren't available until 7pm today? That is unfortunate, but I guess understandable, that they'd be otherwise allocated for something else when a Nationals event is going on that could use them.

And if they are too far behind, 6 indoor courts only goes so far.
They had professional players practicing and some junior lessons taking up the indoor courts all afternoon until 7:00 PM. A couple of us snuck in an open side door and watched the action indoors for about 30 minutes before a USTA person asked us for our credentials and kicked us out!

(I thought the whole secure training environment for the pros was a little amusing. I didn't recognize any of the players. In my job, I've spent a bit of time directly with some high level pros in tennis and other sports. As long as nobody is hassling anyone for pictures or autographs, there's no harm in us watching the practice a bit. Besides, tennis pros are just people and we weren't going to mess with them.)
 

2ndServe

Hall of Fame
Still poor planning imo. They have a west coast USTA national center that basically never rains. If you only had one option, I can understand that. But you had 2 options and 1 (Carson/Los Angeles) is clearly better weather wise, also considering what a royal screw up Dallas Arlington event was they shouldn't have gambled on holding it in Orlando.

Mind you we knew it would rain in Dallas over 14 days in advance we knew there was a 100% of raining. They we scrambling for indoor courts that Saturday (that should have been pre planned contingency plan).
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
Still poor planning imo. They have a west coast USTA national center that basically never rains. If you only had one option, I can understand that. But you had 2 options and 1 (Carson/Los Angeles) is clearly better weather wise, also considering what a royal screw up Dallas Arlington event was they shouldn't have gambled on holding it in Orlando.

Mind you we knew it would rain in Dallas over 14 days in advance we knew there was a 100% of raining. They we scrambling for indoor courts that Saturday (that should have been pre planned contingency plan).
Yep, pretty much perfect weather in Carson, California this weekend.

 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
I'm an optimist, but below is the update we just got from the USTA. They don't say it, but surely we have to be getting scoring format changes, especially with an 80% chance of rain now predicted after 3:00 PM.

"Good morning!

The courts are unfortunately still wet. Please see below for the revised schedule.

Friday 3pm matches will now be at 8am. Lineups are due at 7:30am.
Friday 4:30pm matches will now be at 9am. Lineups are due at 8:30am.

Saturday Schedule:
7:30am matches are now at 10am.
9:30am matches are now at 11am.
11am matches are now at noon.
1pm matches are remain at 1pm.
3pm matches will now be 2pm.
4:30pm matches will now be at 3pm.

All lineups are due 30 minutes prior to your matchtime.
Thank you!"
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
National Adult Players:

Remaining Friday matches:
3pm matches will now be at 9am.
4:30pm matches will now be at 10am. Lineups are due at 9:30am.

Updated Saturday Schedule:
7:30am matches are now at 11am.
9:30am matches are now at noon.
11am matches are now at 1 pm.
1pm matches are now at 2 pm.
3pm matches will remain at 3pm.
4:30pm matches are now at 4pm.

Lineups are due 30 minutes prior to your scheduled match time.

Format update: 2 out of 3 short sets, first to four games, win by two, no ad. At 4 games all, you will play a seven point tie break. If you split sets, you will play a match tiebreak to 10 points.

Thank you for your patience. Good luck today!
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
If they can start on time, and If the short-format matches really take just an hour, the forecast calls for the rain to return around 3pm/4pm leaving the last two time-slots of matches to be played, which is 10 matches by my count (7 women's, 3 men's). That is 50 court hours required. Do they have the indoor courts secured to be able to continue? Or are you waiting for the rain to stop (8pm) and dry the courts and finish late in the evening?
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
With about half of the 4.5+ men's second matches recorded, the top-3 expected to make the semis is the same, NorCal, Southern, Mid-Atlantic, but MoValley has stepped up to challenge PNW for the 4th spot.
 

tpro2000

Rookie
I got back to the hotel at 1am. Cramped on the crapper at Panera at lunch the next day.

J
Yeah same. You had to play Stroynick in that 8am and hit a million balls. It was brutal on all of us, but def more for you playing him [emoji23]

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Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
The scores aren't in Tennislink yet, but PNW men narrowly beat Mid--west 3-2 in our last match today, with a couple of the matches coming down to 3rd set breakers. That means PNW is in the semifinals as one of the top 2 seeds with a 4-0, 16-4 record. Mid Atlantic also beat MoValley 5-0 to put themselves into the semis at 3-1, 15-5. I think the others are Southern and Texas, but I didn't see their final matches as they were on the other courts. It's been a long, but happy day!
 
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