Week 7 (the last) of Nationals - 40+ 6.0/7.0/8.0/9.0 Mixed

[schmke]

In their infinite wisdom, they have announced a start time of 1pm.

Is it raining right now? Radar map actually looks ok for awhile, rain headed north and south of Orlando.

 

[schmke]

Simulation/prediction of the 7.0 flight just posted. NorCal, Mid-Atlantic, PNW, Hawaii the most likely to advance, but Southern is right there and Intermountain and Texas close. A big tie at 3-1 possible.

 

[sam_p]

My suggestion for the future is that if they plan to hold these events with 4 matches required prior to semis/finals that they schedule the event to start Thursday rather than Friday. Obviously, an additional day of expense and off work is a hardship but it is much less a hardship than going to Florida for a competitive event to then have it decided by a match format that is satisfying to no one (except whoever is lucky enough to win the fast 4 crapshoot).

I would think that most of the time having Thursday, Friday, Saturday to get 4 matches in would massively increase the chance that all the matches would be played full format - unless the rain is so solid that the whole thing is essentially washed out.

 

[schmke]

My suggestion for the future is that if they plan to hold these events with 4 matches required prior to semis/finals that they schedule the event to start Thursday rather than Friday. Obviously, an additional day of expense and off work is a hardship but it is much less a hardship than going to Florida for a competitive event to then have it decided by a match format that is satisfying to no one (except whoever is lucky enough to win the fast 4 crapshoot).

I would think that most of the time having Thursday, Friday, Saturday to get 4 matches in would massively increase the chance that all the matches would be played full format - unless the rain is so solid that the whole thing is essentially washed out.

Excellent point.

Another option is Friday thru Monday as well. I think Southern has Monday finishes for a number of events. The advantage of this is that you are taking a weekday away from folks on the front end, and by having the semis/final on Monday it allows teams that aren't advancing to head home Sunday evening if they so choose. In essence, only the semifinalists have the burden of the extra weekday being required.

 

[JLyon]

Its my understanding that they want to, its just a matter of convincing the upper management that they are needed.

One thing many of us don't understand is that they have multiple departments (Adult League, Player Development, Tennis on Campus, Tournaments, which also have different departments, etc.), and they are all fighting for resources. Each department has a budget, and they have to work with what they are given.

Talking with my source (aka my daughter), I can assure everyone that they (Adult League) are well aware of the issues, and would LOVE to host these tournaments out west every year. But (a) that costs money as you have travel costs for employees, and (b) its not good optics if you have this National Campus and don't hold any league tournaments there.

that's true on travel costs, but at same time why schedule National Championship at same time you have Pro Event competing for courts and an invitational tournament, spread stuff out. I know the lower totem pole employees work their a$$es off, while the upper admin just do their public appearance so frustration needs to be with those at the highest levels.

 

[schmke]

Its my understanding that they want to, its just a matter of convincing the upper management that they are needed.

Repeated scenarios where Nationals are forced to some altered/short format doesn't make the case?

One thing many of us don't understand is that they have multiple departments (Adult League, Player Development, Tennis on Campus, Tournaments, which also have different departments, etc.), and they are all fighting for resources. Each department has a budget, and they have to work with what they are given.

Excellent point, puts things in perspective, but I think players still expect the organizers to schedule events at sites/facilities/dates where it is reasonable to expect weather conditions that will allow the event to be played in its entirety, or a contingency plan (indoor courts) that will allow for as close as possible to that in the event of rain.

Talking with my source (aka my daughter), I can assure everyone that they (Adult League) are well aware of the issues, and would LOVE to host these tournaments out west every year. But (a) that costs money as you have travel costs for employees, and (b) its not good optics if you have this National Campus and don't hold any league tournaments there.

On point B, frankly this should have been considered when the facility was built in Orlando. The typical weather in October and November has not suddenly changed in the past two years, if the plan was to host a good portion of Nationals at the campus, they should have built more indoor courts. Or they should have considered alternate locations or a more distributed set of campuses at drier sites if they didn't want to build indoor courts in Orlando.

Again, these sorts of decisions are not controlled by the folks running the events, as I've said before, I'm sure they are doing the best they can and in many cases doing very well within the constraints they are given, and even those deciding locations on a year-to-year basis can only do things within the constraints they are given. But clearly something isn't working when such a significant number of events are adversely affected and I think it is reasonable for players to expect better.

 

[McLovin]

Repeated scenarios where Nationals are forced to some altered/short format doesn't make the case?

Not when people continue to show up for National events.

For all the complaints I’ve read here, people still go to these things in droves. For many, you have 15 teams, each consisting of 10-12 players on each team. That’s over 150 people showing up for 1 event (e.g., 18+ 4.0).

Compare that with a National tournament...say, Grass Court Nationals, and you have around 30 people registered for the 35s.

So...why would upper management want to spend the extra $? Their argument is, on paper, things are going great!

Now, in my opinion, that is very short sighted, but what do I know? I’m just a lowly software developer...

 

[schmke]

Not when people continue to show up for National events.

For all the complaints I’ve read here, people still go to these things in droves. For many, you have 15 teams, each consisting of 10-12 players on each team. That’s over 150 people showing up for 1 event (e.g., 18+ 4.0).

Compare that with a National tournament...say, Grass Court Nationals, and you have around 30 people registered for the 35s.

So...why would upper management want to spend the extra $? Their argument is, on paper, things are going great!

Now, in my opinion, that is very short sighted, but what do I know? I’m just a lowly software developer...

You are right if you are talking about an organization that doesn't really care what people think and only focuses on if "someone" shows up.

The problem is if team A says they don't want to go, as long as they do it well enough in advance, the section will probably send the second place team instead, and it is only if this team has had a bad experience too (or reads TT or my blog) that they may even be aware of the issue, so they'll accept and go. National says "someone showed up, no problem". It is unlikely that a large enough number of teams will forgo going for them to notice and so no, nothing will ever be done.

But the fact that 5x the number of people show up for these than something like Grass Court Nationals should also make the feedback they get carry more weight. In the age of easy communication and social media, things don't look good when situations like Mobile or Arlington or Ft. Lauderdale or too often, Orlando, happen and people talk about it. Can they get away with doing nothing? Sure, but take a look at declining participation in USTA League and I have to imagine the reduced lure of Nationals because of potential weather issues has to be a factor.

 

[schmke]

There are some results!

I'm not going to review them all here, but one that jumped out is Southern beat Middle States in 9.0 3-0 with a combined sets won/lost of 36-2! Scores as listed as 6-0,6-0 for two matches and 6-2,6-0 for the third. Not a score line you often see at Nationals!

In fact, with the short format of first to 4, as I understand the conversion, these were really 4-0,4-0 for two and 4-1,4-0 for the third. Only one game lost by Southern!

 

[SaltyDDDog]

Weather is cooperating and the flights haven’t landed on the courts yet (but trying). Looks like the day will be complete without too much drama. Great crowds!

 

[schmke]

Interesting schedule. Southern 9.0 has played twice already, while 8 teams don't show having played a match yet. Perhaps just slow match entry, but Southern is done for the day while others stress into the evening.

 

[SaltyDDDog]

Granted this is my first nationals, but given the “good” forecast, they better let us play full sets tomorrow. If not, something is very wwwrrooooonnnggg. As many of you know, a short set is unforgiving with a single break of serve. Oh, no adds as well.

 

[McLovin]

Perhaps just slow match entry,

I thought that also, but according to my daughter, they enter the scores into the database as they come in.

 

[schmke]

I thought that also, but according to my daughter, they enter the scores into the database as they come in.

Yep, that is the usual practice. But as of right now, some teams still show as not having played a match yet! :/ . It is 8pm there and three 9.0 teams, six 8.0 teams, two 7.0 teams, and two 6.0 teams still show no results.

It is going to be a late night or they will call it and try to catch up in the morning.

 

[SaltyDDDog]

I know the Mid Alt 7 team has an 11pm second match of the day. Ugh. MoValley was DONE at 445p for the day.

 

[J011yroger]

@schmke has the level of play dropped over the last three years?

Can you easily compare average team NTRP trends over the years?

Maybe the better players are skipping and just the replacements are coming.

J

 

[schmke]

@schmke has the level of play dropped over the last three years?

Can you easily compare average team NTRP trends over the years?

Maybe the better players are skipping and just the replacements are coming.

J

Are you asking specific to 40+ 9.0? Or a different event/level? And why do you ask? Is the level of play at 40+ Mixed lower than before?

 

[SaltyDDDog]

7.0mx is very casual so far. SoCal and Tx may be excluded.

 

[J011yroger]

Are you asking specific to 40+ 9.0? Or a different event/level? And why do you ask? Is the level of play at 40+ Mixed lower than before?

If the top players of levels are not going to Orlando due to bad conditions it should show up in the ratings.

J

 

[schmke]

After day 1, 8.0 has six undefeated teams and five of them can stay that way, in fact it looks pretty likely.

SoCal hasn't dropped a court yet and plays 0-2 NorCal and 1-1 Southwest
MidAtlantic has dropped just a single court and plays 0-2 Northern and 1-1 Eastern
Middle States has also dropped just a single court and plays 0-2 Caribbean and 1-1 Hawaii

Then it gets more interesting. Intermountain is at the center of it all as they play 2-0 PNW and 2-0 Florida. If they lose both, Florida's other match is against 0-2 New England and PNW's other match is against 0-2 MiddleWest. And that could leave us with five undefeated teams.

 

[schmke]

PNW ruined the chances of five undefeated by losing to MiddleWest in 8.0.

7.0 still has 10 teams at 2-1 or better with one match to go, look for a large tie at 3-1, a good chance of 5 teams.

 

[DTM04]

Excellent point.

Another option is Friday thru Monday as well. I think Southern has Monday finishes for a number of events. The advantage of this is that you are taking a weekday away from folks on the front end, and by having the semis/final on Monday it allows teams that aren't advancing to head home Sunday evening if they so choose. In essence, only the semifinalists have the burden of the extra weekday being required.

This works ok for a sectional championship where people are for the most part in driving distance of the site and can just get up and leave, even if it's a 5 hour drive. Tougher to change arrangements 24-48 hours in advance with hotel/flight cancellation or change fees potentially coming into play.

 

[J_R_B]

Congrats to Middle States 8.0 national runner ups. I have some friends on that team, they're good people. Interestingly, most of the top teams that they used were 4.5/3.5 combos (mostly 4.5 men, but some the other way around, too). Also, interestingly, despite finishing 2nd, it looks like they didn't even have several of their top 4.5 men there at all, including one who opted to play for Eastern instead of MS.