What’s Ferrero like 2-5000 in good vs. bad gameplans?

K

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
This guy is completely awful. Yet another needlessly poor loss where Carlos has no brain, no coherent BH or serve technique, and constantly throws away points with poor errors and shot construction. 5 years on Tour now and his game sense is still junior level.

Ferrero just sits there arms folded with his stupid advertisement-laden hat and sunglasses on. Does he prepare gameplans? And don’t give me “he won 4 slams”. He won them by the SKIN of his Teeth with sheer clutch gene and grit, not with tactics.

3 consecutive 5 setters at USO 22. Took him hours to adjust to Sinner in 2022 in Wimbledon, Umag, and the first 4 sets in Flushing to realize he must use variety on Jannik and bring him forward to net. Then nearly 2-1 down to freaking RUUD.

Wim 23 he came out like he’d never played tennis before and was a Djokovic swinging volley away from a loss.

RG 24 let Zverev back in the match by forgetting how to return his serve (a common thread in these matches)

Wim 24 tries to play Federer style baseline hugging vs Tiafoe and gets absolutely burnt to a crisp, again coming one game from defeat.

I’d extend it beyond Slam wins as well. Every single time Raz has come up against an opponent of comparable ability in the last 3 years he’s made it more difficult on himself:
RG 22, WB 22, USO 22 (set point from 1-2 down vs RUUD), the abominable indoor seasons from 22-24, USO 23, AO/RG 24 continuously giving Zverev free points, Olympics, USO 24, AO 25 etc etc.

Change is needed and fast if Carlos wishes to achieve his goals. Ferrero is not the man for the job.
 
Kralingen said:
This guy is completely awful. Yet another needlessly poor loss where Carlos has no brain, no coherent BH or serve technique, and constantly throws away points with poor errors and shot construction. 5 years on Tour now and his game sense is still junior level.

Ferrero just sits there arms folded with his stupid advertisement-laden hat and sunglasses on. Does he prepare gameplans? And don’t give me “he won 4 slams”. He won them by the SKIN of his Teeth with sheer clutch gene and grit, not with tactics.

3 consecutive 5 setters at USO 22. Took him hours to adjust to Sinner in 2022 in Wimbledon, Umag, and the first 4 sets in Flushing to realize he must use variety on Jannik and bring him forward to net. Then nearly 2-1 down to freaking RUUD.

Wim 23 he came out like he’d never played tennis before and was a Djokovic swinging volley away from a loss.

RG 24 let Zverev back in the match by forgetting how to return his serve (a common thread in these matches)

Wim 24 tries to play Federer style baseline hugging vs Tiafoe and gets absolutely burnt to a crisp, again coming one game from defeat.

I’d extend it beyond Slam wins as well. Every single time Raz has come up against an opponent of comparable ability in the last 3 years he’s made it more difficult on himself:
RG 22, WB 22, USO 22 (set point from 1-2 down vs RUUD), the abominable indoor seasons from 22-24, USO 23, AO/RG 24 continuously giving Zverev free points, Olympics, USO 24, AO 25 etc etc.

Change is needed and fast if Carlos wishes to achieve his goals. Ferrero is not the man for the job.
Click to expand...
We already know man. Monte Carlo was a fluke. Fils had him beat as far as I’m concerned
 
Saw long highlights and it looked to me Alcaraz in the 2nd set gave up a little bit. Abandoned his game plan and couldn't get himself to fight through what would be 3-4 hour match for a 500 title. Then again he is playing infront of a home crowd so motivation should be there. I wouldn't look to much into it, but as for Rune credit where it's due. He looked to be a pain to play and Alcaraz wasn't maybe as hungry as him.
 
yeah it's Ferrero's fault a so called generational talent who has the greatest forehand, dropshot, speed, etc. of all time can't beat Holger f-in Rune.

Alcaraz has one and only one gameplan and that is to wear down and out-muscle his primarily clinically disabled opposition over the course of B05, it's gotten him very far and will probably continue to win him big tournaments
 
Kralingen said:
This guy is completely awful. Yet another needlessly poor loss where Carlos has no brain, no coherent BH or serve technique, and constantly throws away points with poor errors and shot construction. 5 years on Tour now and his game sense is still junior level.

Ferrero just sits there arms folded with his stupid advertisement-laden hat and sunglasses on. Does he prepare gameplans? And don’t give me “he won 4 slams”. He won them by the SKIN of his Teeth with sheer clutch gene and grit, not with tactics.

3 consecutive 5 setters at USO 22. Took him hours to adjust to Sinner in 2022 in Wimbledon, Umag, and the first 4 sets in Flushing to realize he must use variety on Jannik and bring him forward to net. Then nearly 2-1 down to freaking RUUD.

Wim 23 he came out like he’d never played tennis before and was a Djokovic swinging volley away from a loss.

RG 24 let Zverev back in the match by forgetting how to return his serve (a common thread in these matches)

Wim 24 tries to play Federer style baseline hugging vs Tiafoe and gets absolutely burnt to a crisp, again coming one game from defeat.

I’d extend it beyond Slam wins as well. Every single time Raz has come up against an opponent of comparable ability in the last 3 years he’s made it more difficult on himself:
RG 22, WB 22, USO 22 (set point from 1-2 down vs RUUD), the abominable indoor seasons from 22-24, USO 23, AO/RG 24 continuously giving Zverev free points, Olympics, USO 24, AO 25 etc etc.

Change is needed and fast if Carlos wishes to achieve his goals. Ferrero is not the man for the job.
Click to expand...
I never understood the idea of using the accomplishments angle to dismiss the need of a new coach. Federer won 13 slams at one point, doesn't mean he didn't desperately need a new voice in his team to help him against Nadal back in those days (which he didn't get anyway).
 
Kralingen said:
Ferrero just sits there arms folded with his stupid advertisement-laden hat and sunglasses on.
Click to expand...
Because it works lol

44C4F8B700000578-0-image-a-7_1506501387367.jpg

rafael-nadal-coach-carlos-moya-with-agent-carlos-costa-and-uncle-toni-at-roland-garros-final-2018.png
 
Can we blame Ferrero?
Could they have plans that Alcaraz refuses to execute? Or only tries for 1-2 points and then forgets or abandons a different strategy?

The overall success is still at a level that wouldn't make me drive for change unless we had more of the details behind closed doors.

If Ferrero is not helping him prep or giving various tactical advice, then maybe make a change.
If Ferrero is doing all the right things and Carlos can't execute, even so a new voice might help facilitate change.

Oddly, I think overall they are a good match.
 
Ferrero is a Tomic level coach. Alcaraz deserves Ivanisevic as serve coach, Nadal as tactics coach and Federer as dropshot coach. Everything that Carlos has shown is mug like. I wonder how he's won anything beyond a club level match let a lone a GS. If he ever shows up at my club me and the boys are going to boo him until he learns to hit a BH.
 
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I've argued since 2023 that Ferrero's coaching relationship with Alcaraz has reached its peak. Carlos has since won Roland Garros and defended Wimbledon (and I think he'll defend Roland Garros), but I think that's in spite of Ferrero being his coach...not because of it.

Kralingen said:
Change is needed and fast if Carlos wishes to achieve his goals. Ferrero is not the man for the job.
Click to expand...

Toni Nadal?
 
Kralingen said:
This guy is completely awful. Yet another needlessly poor loss where Carlos has no brain, no coherent BH or serve technique, and constantly throws away points with poor errors and shot construction. 5 years on Tour now and his game sense is still junior level.

Ferrero just sits there arms folded with his stupid advertisement-laden hat and sunglasses on. Does he prepare gameplans? And don’t give me “he won 4 slams”. He won them by the SKIN of his Teeth with sheer clutch gene and grit, not with tactics.

3 consecutive 5 setters at USO 22. Took him hours to adjust to Sinner in 2022 in Wimbledon, Umag, and the first 4 sets in Flushing to realize he must use variety on Jannik and bring him forward to net. Then nearly 2-1 down to freaking RUUD.

Wim 23 he came out like he’d never played tennis before and was a Djokovic swinging volley away from a loss.

RG 24 let Zverev back in the match by forgetting how to return his serve (a common thread in these matches)

Wim 24 tries to play Federer style baseline hugging vs Tiafoe and gets absolutely burnt to a crisp, again coming one game from defeat.

I’d extend it beyond Slam wins as well. Every single time Raz has come up against an opponent of comparable ability in the last 3 years he’s made it more difficult on himself:
RG 22, WB 22, USO 22 (set point from 1-2 down vs RUUD), the abominable indoor seasons from 22-24, USO 23, AO/RG 24 continuously giving Zverev free points, Olympics, USO 24, AO 25 etc etc.

Change is needed and fast if Carlos wishes to achieve his goals. Ferrero is not the man for the job.
Click to expand...
nuff said
 
Daniel Andrade said:
Ferrero is a Tomic level coach. Alcaraz deserves Ivanisevic as serve coach, Nadal as tactics coach and Federer as dropshot coach. Everything that Carlos has shown is mug like. I wonder how he's won anything beyond a club level match let a lone a GS. If he ever shows up at my club my and the boys are going to boo him until he learns to hit a BH.
Click to expand...
Maybe he needs Moya ;)
 
Kralingen said:
This guy is completely awful. Yet another needlessly poor loss where Carlos has no brain, no coherent BH or serve technique, and constantly throws away points with poor errors and shot construction. 5 years on Tour now and his game sense is still junior level.

Ferrero just sits there arms folded with his stupid advertisement-laden hat and sunglasses on. Does he prepare gameplans? And don’t give me “he won 4 slams”. He won them by the SKIN of his Teeth with sheer clutch gene and grit, not with tactics.

3 consecutive 5 setters at USO 22. Took him hours to adjust to Sinner in 2022 in Wimbledon, Umag, and the first 4 sets in Flushing to realize he must use variety on Jannik and bring him forward to net. Then nearly 2-1 down to freaking RUUD.

Wim 23 he came out like he’d never played tennis before and was a Djokovic swinging volley away from a loss.

RG 24 let Zverev back in the match by forgetting how to return his serve (a common thread in these matches)

Wim 24 tries to play Federer style baseline hugging vs Tiafoe and gets absolutely burnt to a crisp, again coming one game from defeat.

I’d extend it beyond Slam wins as well. Every single time Raz has come up against an opponent of comparable ability in the last 3 years he’s made it more difficult on himself:
RG 22, WB 22, USO 22 (set point from 1-2 down vs RUUD), the abominable indoor seasons from 22-24, USO 23, AO/RG 24 continuously giving Zverev free points, Olympics, USO 24, AO 25 etc etc.

Change is needed and fast if Carlos wishes to achieve his goals. Ferrero is not the man for the job.
Click to expand...
On the latest Gill Gross podcast I got the feeling - reading between the lines - that things might not be too great between Raz and Ferrero right now.
We'll see. I wouldn't read too much into today's loss though - Rune was on fire and Raz fell off once he felt the injury.

MRI scan coming up for Raz tomorrow. Really hope that it is nothing major.
 
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duaneeo said:
I've argued since 2023 that Ferrero's coaching relationship with Alcaraz has reached its peak. Carlos has since won Roland Garros and defended Wimbledon (and I think he'll defend Roland Garros), but I think that's in spite of Ferrero being his coach...not because of it.



Toni Nadal
Click to expand...
Toni Nadal for mental strength, Jmac for tactics.

I would say Fed for tactics but that’s Carlos idol, so maybe it will have a negative effect.
 
I mean it’s not like Ferrero can play for him. At the end of the day it’s up to Carl to go out on the court and execute his game. And it’s been a very successful partnership thus far. If Ferrero deserves the blame for Carl’s failures then surely he deserves credit for his successes too, no? Carl is easily the most accomplished player not named Djokovic on the tour today. And that’s part of the problem. People are comparing him to the Big 3 when he’s not on their level. And that’s ok.
 
Kralingen said:
This guy is completely awful. Yet another needlessly poor loss where Carlos has no brain, no coherent BH or serve technique, and constantly throws away points with poor errors and shot construction. 5 years on Tour now and his game sense is still junior level.

Ferrero just sits there arms folded with his stupid advertisement-laden hat and sunglasses on. Does he prepare gameplans? And don’t give me “he won 4 slams”. He won them by the SKIN of his Teeth with sheer clutch gene and grit, not with tactics.

3 consecutive 5 setters at USO 22. Took him hours to adjust to Sinner in 2022 in Wimbledon, Umag, and the first 4 sets in Flushing to realize he must use variety on Jannik and bring him forward to net. Then nearly 2-1 down to freaking RUUD.

Wim 23 he came out like he’d never played tennis before and was a Djokovic swinging volley away from a loss.

RG 24 let Zverev back in the match by forgetting how to return his serve (a common thread in these matches)

Wim 24 tries to play Federer style baseline hugging vs Tiafoe and gets absolutely burnt to a crisp, again coming one game from defeat.

I’d extend it beyond Slam wins as well. Every single time Raz has come up against an opponent of comparable ability in the last 3 years he’s made it more difficult on himself:
RG 22, WB 22, USO 22 (set point from 1-2 down vs RUUD), the abominable indoor seasons from 22-24, USO 23, AO/RG 24 continuously giving Zverev free points, Olympics, USO 24, AO 25 etc etc.

Change is needed and fast if Carlos wishes to achieve his goals. Ferrero is not the man for the job.
Click to expand...
Not sure I agree. It just proves that his improvisation level is out of this world. And after all he still has 4 slams, by the skin of his teeth?
Maybe. But who cares. He will always be inconsistent unlike Sinner, yet with a bright future ahead
 
Kralingen said:
This guy is completely awful. Yet another needlessly poor loss where Carlos has no brain, no coherent BH or serve technique, and constantly throws away points with poor errors and shot construction. 5 years on Tour now and his game sense is still junior level.

Ferrero just sits there arms folded with his stupid advertisement-laden hat and sunglasses on. Does he prepare gameplans? And don’t give me “he won 4 slams”. He won them by the SKIN of his Teeth with sheer clutch gene and grit, not with tactics.

3 consecutive 5 setters at USO 22. Took him hours to adjust to Sinner in 2022 in Wimbledon, Umag, and the first 4 sets in Flushing to realize he must use variety on Jannik and bring him forward to net. Then nearly 2-1 down to freaking RUUD.

Wim 23 he came out like he’d never played tennis before and was a Djokovic swinging volley away from a loss.

RG 24 let Zverev back in the match by forgetting how to return his serve (a common thread in these matches)

Wim 24 tries to play Federer style baseline hugging vs Tiafoe and gets absolutely burnt to a crisp, again coming one game from defeat.

I’d extend it beyond Slam wins as well. Every single time Raz has come up against an opponent of comparable ability in the last 3 years he’s made it more difficult on himself:
RG 22, WB 22, USO 22 (set point from 1-2 down vs RUUD), the abominable indoor seasons from 22-24, USO 23, AO/RG 24 continuously giving Zverev free points, Olympics, USO 24, AO 25 etc etc.

Change is needed and fast if Carlos wishes to achieve his goals. Ferrero is not the man for the job.
Click to expand...
Wrong, stop blaming juan carlos ferrero and stop making completely argumentless BS excuses for carlos alcaraz's complete utter lack of true all-time great talent.
 
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You can take a horse to the water, etc.

That said Carlos is pretty good at drinking from the pond, but sometimes he let's guys like Rune and the Barcelona ballboys jump in it and take some water for themselves.
 
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