What a pain! One handed backhand
- Thread starter Curious
- Start date
zill
Legend
no modern 1hb works in exactly the same complexity with maybe a minor tweak or two as what Lendl is doing here but modern is clearly better. Some players are simply not meant to hit 1hb, myself included.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
What I really like about it is the shoulder turn with almost no independent arm-hand lift or take back during most of the take back. From there on it’s just a pendulum swing.
I just can’t understand/explain why I still do the opposite despite everything I tried. I suspect two culprits: 1. not being able to see the ball well if I turned as much as Lendl does. 2. Lack of neck flexibility. ( 2 might be responsible for 1 actually)
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Dragy
Legend
Your biggest issue is still hitting all shots extremely close to the tip. Stiff 100 sq.in. forgives it to a degree, but if you swing /2 less effortful, but make contact in the middle of the stringbed, it is powerful, spinning and consistent.
Your second biggest issue is arming the swing too soon. You leave your off-hand behind the back and don’t give yourself chance to smoothly uncoil to start the swing. Try this:
- get into this position with both hands on the racquet
- twist back and forth with your hips and torso while keeping arms exactly same, so it’s just passively carried around
- then split and swing with you arm at the forward end of that twisting motion
Then go with shadow swings where your continuous swing includes this phase. Then go with live ball
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Can you make a vid of you doing drop feeds?
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I can only do that on shadow swings. Proper off hand movement disappears magically when I hit a ball!You leave your off-hand behind the back and don’t give yourself chance to smoothly uncoil to start the swing. Try this:
- get into this position with both hands on the racquet
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I think the older generation hit ohbh beautifully. Lendl, Edberg, Muster. They all do the exact same thing: a great unit turn without lifting the racket up independently with the hand. There’s zero lift early in the take back and the lift that comes at the end of the take back happens again by the torso coil and front shoulder dipping. Such a smooth take back. And from then on they simply execute a pendulum like swing.
I tried to emulate that for two hours today. The early lift is so badly ingrained in my backhand that it’s hard to break the habit. I made some progress.
I tried to emulate that for two hours today. The early lift is so badly ingrained in my backhand that it’s hard to break the habit. I made some progress.
Good backhand.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
There’s still some lifting of racket with the hand independently of the torso turn and coil. It’s such a strange urge to resist but I believe I’ll get there after a few more sessions.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Do you think I’m letting go of the racket too early with my left hand because my forward swing is done mostly by right arm swing instead of torso uncoiling? From what you said above it sounds like you mean I’m not uncoiling properly because I’m letting go of the racket too early with my left hand while I thought it might be the other way around.
That doesn't matter. You can do that. It's not wrong. You are advanced enough to simply listen to your body to make minor adjustments through repetition. It's a fine backhand already. It will only improve with repetition. Don't make any drastic changes. The nucleus is already in place.
Dragy
Legend
You do uncoil, but you start your independent arm swing too early (or you start uncoiling too late). I suggest that you sequence it so the arm acts on top of uncoil.
Why it’s suboptimal to start both simultaneously? Because this makes your shoulder muscles fight the inertia and acceleration from torso uncoil. Which leads to either instability and excessive effort (and overuse injuries from repetition), or to toning down the uncoil to the level arm can bear the load comfortably. Which limits easy and consistent input from torso uncoiling.
If you give your body a moment to start before arm launch, it is much more fluid and clean. It might feel as if you do nothing, don’t swing initially, but it’s just the feel: hitting arm still starts down and around with torso and uncoil, to take off in a moment, swing out and rip across the ball.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
This! But you have the ready position wrong. Racquet should be higher and more out in front…
LOBALOT
Legend
I actually really like my one-hander and hit some great angled shots with it. It is actually more consistent than my forehand which I tend to overhit like most righty players.
The only thing with mine, which I think is the case for most average players, is it can be pressured with aggressive play but those that do have success doing that I try to run around it a little bit more to minimize the impact.
The only thing with mine, which I think is the case for most average players, is it can be pressured with aggressive play but those that do have success doing that I try to run around it a little bit more to minimize the impact.
Dragy
Legend
That’s why you break habits in progressions. You can set your BM to give you slowish feeds, stand halfway between service line and baseline, focus on that uncoil while making clean contact and hitting soft. Then progress by adding more RHS through contact while maintaining same initial form
The main issue I see is the swing path and what to do with the ball. The TS shot should not be approaching the ball horizontally and slapping it. Instead, should come under it and brush up.
The yellow line connects the handle to the tip - the future multi-slam winner in the last picture has the racket aligned horizontally in the slot position than the previous slam winners on the left
Since you swing slower than pro players I would think your angle of attack should be steeper than them. imo, the blue line should be your angle of attack to brush up the back of the ball. The path should be more golf like swing than a horizontal slap. The racket face appears a lot more open than others (grip or supination/pronation/esr fine tuning)
It's the exact same issue with your forehand as well.
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Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Me too! But I have a 1hbh…
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
If I had curious’s legs I could easily beat everyone. Said another way, my issues are more mobility. If I can get there I usually hit a good ball.
1hbh is harder so kudos
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
It probably depends on the person. I hit an OK 2 hander but its harder for me1hbh is harder so kudos
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
1H is definitely harder to develop, but if you can hit both, I think the 1H is the easier shot on average
ngoster
Semi-Pro
From what I can see, you have a nice BH. It just needs some fine tuning which, as others have mentioned, comes with repetition and listening to your body.
From this picture, I did notice that your spacing, or lack thereof, may be causing you to feel late and jammed. The racquet head doesn't look like it's allowed to come down then up on the ball but, rather, it has to come across your body. This happens to me also them I'm reminded to extend my arms more to form a triangle during the unit turn.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I definitely want and try to go more under the ball like that blue line but I have huge difficulty achieving that, I don’t know why. I simply can’t let the racket do a pendulum motion going down from the top of take back. It’s probably due to lack of looseness or being too focused to swing straight at the ball. The interesting thing though is that even with the shallow swing path I seem to create quite a bit of top spin.The main issue I see is the swing path and what to do with the ball. The TS shot should not be approaching the ball horizontally and slapping it. Instead, should come under it and brush up.
The yellow line connects the handle to the tip - the future multi-slam winner in the last picture has the racket aligned horizontally in the slot position than the previous slam winners on the left
Since you swing slower than pro players I would think your angle of attack should be steeper than them. imo, the blue line should be your angle of attack to brush up the back of the ball. The path should be more golf like swing than a horizontal slap. The racket face appears a lot more open than others (grip or supination/pronation/esr fine tuning)
It's the exact same issue with your forehand as well.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Just take it straight back. Look at Musters bh. Then add the loop
Curious
G.O.A.T.
That’s exactly what I was thinking of doing after watching Lendl again this morning. One detail though, his hand is very low during take back but as his racket head is up he still gets good momentum with that. I mean he still lifts it up at the end of take back but I’m sure I can avoid that for the time being and still get enough power.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Going straight back is better for the return too
zill
Legend
The main issue I see is the swing path and what to do with the ball. The TS shot should not be approaching the ball horizontally and slapping it. Instead, should come under it and brush up.
The yellow line connects the handle to the tip - the future multi-slam winner in the last picture has the racket aligned horizontally in the slot position than the previous slam winners on the left
Since you swing slower than pro players I would think your angle of attack should be steeper than them. imo, the blue line should be your angle of attack to brush up the back of the ball. The path should be more golf like swing than a horizontal slap. The racket face appears a lot more open than others (grip or supination/pronation/esr fine tuning)
It's the exact same issue with your forehand as well.
This hits the nail on the head. It's not about how high or low your racquet is initially.
zill
Legend
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I see the spin with my own eyes when I get it right. Sure it can be more and consistently. Now about the racket drop and going under the ball more it’s probably a better idea to focus on the resultant action of the ball as I believe human body can adjust. What I mean is if I can try to focus on and achieve creating nice top spin on low balls mission is complete. That’s a better way than looking at still images and slow motion videos of my strokes.
zill
Legend
What I can tell you from experience is you can try to change elements of your stroke consciously but those changes translate little to the physics and mechanics of the stroke. So basically you can tell if someone is talented or not at the game from a very early stage and with little instruction.
zill
Legend
Although conscious changes and instruction can improve your shots a lot but it doesn't make you from an average server to a great server for example. Nor a painful bh to a good bh.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
You’ve made these points many times before. All negative, all the same over and over again. Why do you bother? Go read other threads now.
Is it because you didn't even try? I definitely think so. Why don't you start with the ideal slot position and start from there to develop the feeling during live ball.
Here's an experiment. Can you hit from around the service line and make the ball reach the fence on ONE bounce (ball bouncing within baseline of course)?
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I’ll try that.
zill
Legend
Just giving the truth. Also your thread title is pretty negative.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
“You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.”
P. Moynihan
zill
Legend
Tell me an example of a pro player with a top shot but was not recognized for that shot in their early junior days?
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Tell me then why you’ve been trying to improve all of your strokes for 4 years.
zill
Legend
4.5 years now. To make them as best as possible given my mechanics. Only one shot had no hope and I abandoned it after working on it for 6 months which was my 1hb (although I had used it for 15 years prior without thinking about it hence no knowledge that it was inherently problematic). Worked on my 2hb for 1.5 years now although is not goat has potential to be a descent which it is now.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
So you can try to improve your technique as long as you want but I shouldn’t??
D
Deleted member 775108
Guest
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zill
Legend
Your 1bh has serious problems. Like me you should also abandoned it and use a 2hb is what I am suggesting. All your other strokes are biomechanically fine. You have potential also to develop a descent 2hb.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Well, I disagree and again you’ve said this a hundred times before. You’re not bored? Or maybe you care so much about my improvement, I keep misunderstanding your efforts!!
