What a pain! One handed backhand

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
What @ppma said.
I've heard coaches say that an extended wrist on a drive 1HBH is a cause of injuries for rec players and that instead it should be slightly flexed.
This is the exact opposite of what research studies say. Rec players with a 1HBH lead with the elbow and hit the ball late with a flexed wrist. Advanced players hit the ball early while extending their wrist.


Experts performed the backhand stroke with the wrist extended (re: neutral alignment of the forearm and hand dorsum). Collision of the ball and racket occurred with the wrist extended on average of 0.41 rad (about 23 degrees from neutral alignment) in the expert players; moreover, their wrists were moving further into extension at impact. In contrast, novice subjects struck the ball with the wrist flexed 0.22 rad (about 13 degrees) while moving their wrists further into flexion.”
 

10sbeast888

Hall of Fame
actually, the extension thru the shot is the same as my 'intentional shanking'. you can only benefit from it by hitting low on the face.. if you hit high, the increased extension actually reduces power.

but this can of worm should be left alone at the moment. @Curious is doing fine... let him be on the current course.

also in today's WW style bh any increase in extension should be minor, so as not to disturb the constant racket angle.... again, a can of worm should be left alone as C is trying to work on making the WW pure, and getting rid of the flipping.
 
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ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
actually, the extension thru the shot is the same as my 'intentional shanking'. you can only benefit from it by hitting low on the face.. if you hit high, the increased extension actually reduces power.

but this can of worm should be left alone at the moment. @Curious is doing fine... let him be on the current course.

also in today's WW style bh any increase in extension should be minor, so as not to disturb the constant racket angle.... again, a can of worm should be left alone as C is trying to work on making the WW pure, and getting rid of the flipping.
Wrist is extended the same from unit turn to follow through.
 

10sbeast888

Hall of Fame
Wrist is extended the same from unit turn to follow through.

pay attention senior citizen - "moreover, their wrists were moving further into extension at impact."

and who knows the qualifications of those who wrote the article, and when... the bh technique has gone thru a lot of changes, probably starting from Guga with the more rotational style.

doesn't matter.

constant racket angle is still the main goal.

maybe some micro adjustments, with extension or flexion.. whenever needed.

like in real tennes (instead of wii), if a sudden gust knocks the ball down or lifts the ball, your not gonna keep going and hit the ball into the ground or the woods.

micro adjustments do happen, in real tennis.
 

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
pay attention senior citizen - "moreover, their wrists were moving further into extension at impact."
Everything I write is mostly from my own experience. Most on here are watching YouTubers and we see where that gets people. Still trying to get to some type of decent strokes and treading water.

Anyway, it is harder to keep extension maximized when arm is pronated at bottom of drop, especially with straight arm and easier to extend wrist during supination. The effort is the same throughout the stroke. I would doubt, say Stan for example, is purposely changing the amount of extension throughout the stroke. That is exactly the type of instruction that causes people, still trying to find their strokes, to go out and try to change wrist position during the stroke. Scientific data, but nothing an instructor should point out to a student.
 

10sbeast888

Hall of Fame
Everything I write is mostly from my own experience. Most on here are watching YouTubers and we see where that gets people. Still trying to get to some type of decent strokes and treading water.

Anyway, it is harder to keep extension maximized when arm is pronated at bottom of drop, especially with straight arm and easier to extend wrist during supination. The effort is the same throughout the stroke. I would doubt, say Stan for example, is purposely changing the amount of extension throughout the stroke. That is exactly the type of instruction that causes people, still trying to find their strokes, to go out and try to change wrist position during the stroke. Scientific data, but nothing an instructor should point out to a student.

sure... again, constant angle should be the goal.
 

Fintft

G.O.A.T.
This is the exact opposite of what research studies say. Rec players with a 1HBH lead with the elbow and hit the ball late with a flexed wrist. Advanced players hit the ball early while extending their wrist.


Experts performed the backhand stroke with the wrist extended (re: neutral alignment of the forearm and hand dorsum). Collision of the ball and racket occurred with the wrist extended on average of 0.41 rad (about 23 degrees from neutral alignment) in the expert players; moreover, their wrists were moving further into extension at impact. In contrast, novice subjects struck the ball with the wrist flexed 0.22 rad (about 13 degrees) while moving their wrists further into flexion.”
You are right, English is not my mother tongue.
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
Agree with PPMA and fintft, disagree with 10sbeast888. The wrist is locked or "stiffened" to achieve a certain consistency. It may become a bit looser when unloading big backhands in the follow through stage, only because the racquet is heavy and you swung fast.
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
Anyway Curious I think you should continue getting the in person help from the poster here, he has a good backhand and knows what he's doing. Rather than getting led astray by lower ranked players here with loose spaghetti off arms on their forehands!
 

ppma

Professional
This is the exact opposite of what research studies say. Rec players with a 1HBH lead with the elbow and hit the ball late with a flexed wrist. Advanced players hit the ball early while extending their wrist.


Experts performed the backhand stroke with the wrist extended (re: neutral alignment of the forearm and hand dorsum). Collision of the ball and racket occurred with the wrist extended on average of 0.41 rad (about 23 degrees from neutral alignment) in the expert players; moreover, their wrists were moving further into extension at impact. In contrast, novice subjects struck the ball with the wrist flexed 0.22 rad (about 13 degrees) while moving their wrists further into flexion.”
There is no contradiction of what I said.

I said that the in a 1hbh grip position the wrist has no movement that is useful for generating RHS. Opening or closing the wrist can have an impact on racquet face angle. What should be done is hitting with a neutral or almost wrist position. Whatever other position of the wrist involves tensing muscles, which not ideal.
 

10sbeast888

Hall of Fame
Anyway Curious I think you should continue getting the in person help from the poster here, he has a good backhand and knows what he's doing. Rather than getting led astray by lower ranked players here with loose spaghetti off arms on their forehands!
Tried not to be too harsh on you per the request of another member. But you don’t deserve it.

Give it to you straight. Your bh is low ceiling low tolerance garbage. Yet you keep showing up here to give tips. Unfortunately for you there is video evidence. Prime example of you don’t know what you don’t know.

Shut up so you won’t get laughed at.
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
Tried not to be too harsh on you per the request of another member. But you don’t deserve it.

Give it to you straight. Your bh is low ceiling low tolerance garbage. Yet you keep showing up here to give tips. Unfortunately for you there is video evidence. Prime example of you don’t know what you don’t know.

Shut up so you won’t get laughed at.
Are you okay?
 

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
5000+ posts on this "what a pain of a thread"! Love it.
These kinds of threads can go this long when the OP doesn’t want to listen to answers.
If the OP forgot the combination to a lock, he would try every possible combo to unlock even though his wife told him it was written on a Post It in the junk drawer.
 

10sbeast888

Hall of Fame
now that C's game is approaching his peak tennis...

what we need is someone else who needs massive fixing, that will get the coaches excited, e.g. the BMG.

can someone maybe convince @dannyslicer to fix his shyt game? he's not talking to me anymore.

since I'm also a psychiatric expert... the reason he starts so many junker threads is that deep down he wants to be a 'real man' style player, but knowing the challenges ahead to build a 'real tennis' game, he's trying to get the community's confirmation that copping out as a junker is somewhat ok.. plus he's underestimating the work needed to be a good junker.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
Coaches will tell you to have a strong EBH grip, pull back the racquet with your offhand to have good coil, get low to start your swing lower than the desired contact, step into the shot with good weight transfer and then hit the ball early well in front of your body with full extension. They will give you hand feeds and drills so that you get better at each aspect of the shot and give you some checkpoints to make self-adjustments. They are not going to be nattering on about the angle of your different body parts or which pro to look like. Also no coach will start you on learning a swing before they have taught you the fundamentals of recovery, anticipation, footwork and spacing which are all typically ignored by self-taught players to their detriment who then have a low ceiling as a result.

Also if you buy one conventional coaching technique book on tennis and follow it, you are going to get better faster than if you try to re-invent the wheel trying to come up with ‘Eureka’ moments on unconventional ways to play each tennis shot every week. This thread is entertaining, but it is almost like a primer on how not to learn a specific tennis shot.

When you hit a shot right, it is hard to do it wrong and when you do it wrong, it is hard to hit it right. That’s why advanced players can hit hundreds of shots without missing on neutral balls and others struggle to hit 10 shots at a much lower pace without missing.
 

10sbeast888

Hall of Fame
Let’s talk some slice backhand then. I see some are too bored with the thread!



not bad really.

tempo is better, with the front foot mostly planted. only saw a couple of them e.g. the 2nd slice at 00:05 the front foot was still sliding.

running out of things to fix there..

volleys?
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
not bad really.

tempo is better, with the front foot mostly planted. only saw a couple of them e.g. the 2nd slice at 00:05 the front foot was still sliding.

running out of things to fix there..

volleys?
Still too wristy, too much follow through, too much ESR, supination in the finish, can’t maintain the sharp racket-forearm angle …
 

10sbeast888

Hall of Fame
It should be an all arm shot, almost! Watch Rune in the above video. He doesn’t turn much more than I do. He stays sideways though, the main difference.

at the top of the backswing, notice the diff... his racket head has gone far to the right of his head.

more coil, deeper backswing, you have plenty of time to let the ball come in.

and Patrick did say the contact is between the feet, not in front of the right foot.

and it's not an arm shot. think of it having the same kinetic chain as the topspin 1hb... just more sideways posture, and later contact, and you are swinging slightly down instead of up.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.

at the top of the backswing, notice the diff... his racket head has gone far to the right of his head.

more coil, deeper backswing, you have plenty of time to let the ball come in.

and Patrick did say the contact is between the feet, not in front of the right foot.

and it's not an arm shot. think of it having the same kinetic chain as the topspin 1hb... just more sideways posture, and later contact, and you are swinging slightly down instead of up.
Different camera angles.
 
Let’s talk some slice backhand then. I see some are too bored with the thread!


I think at your age your in good shape and have good feet/legs, so you should utilize them.
Lean a bit more in the slice, keep the wirst firm, don't do that slappy guidy thing with your wirst.

If the ball comes right at you, you can use that cross step left leg behind right leg to lean into the shot/weight tranfser.
But you also using it when pushed out wide, stepping/falling back, so your not only putting no body weight jnto the shot, your falling back to early and reduce the window for a clean contact zone and energy transfer into the ball.
when forced out wide, the left leg should pass the right leg on the outside (not in general, depends on how "late" you are) to have a chance to go at least a bit through the ball and be in a good recover position.
Your falling/stepping back with the left when forced out wide gives also a quick recover position, but much worse shot quality.

Maybe have at look at youtube for Dimi, how he plays, what he says (lean into the shot, dont come frome above the ball, keep the wrist firm).
 

Dragy

Legend
Seen anyone picking on it as a weakness?
He plays more tiebreaks than “+2 games” sets, even including lost sets. So it seems to me it’s not about picking onto BH in his matches.

I played some matches I won convincingly, I hit like 1 BH on every 4-5 forehands. If they cannot make me hit BHs, who cares how weak it is?

Now when I have to hit more BHs, it usually means match will be much more close in score, or possibly I’m going down :cry:
 

zill

Legend
No I haven’t. Resorts to slice even less frequently than Wawrinka.
Maybe because he doesn’t have a slice or tactic just to smash winners.

Note most his bh winners are down the line. That is no coincidence imo given his shallow drop. Uncomfortable going cross court unless ball is short.
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
now that C's game is approaching his peak tennis...

what we need is someone else who needs massive fixing, that will get the coaches excited, e.g. the BMG.

can someone maybe convince @dannyslicer to fix his shyt game? he's not talking to me anymore.

since I'm also a psychiatric expert... the reason he starts so many junker threads is that deep down he wants to be a 'real man' style player, but knowing the challenges ahead to build a 'real tennis' game, he's trying to get the community's confirmation that copping out as a junker is somewhat ok.. plus he's underestimating the work needed to be a good junker.
We could start with your forehand perhaps?
 
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